Inside Sim Racing video. GT5P vs Forza 2 Now with new 2nd video!!!!

[Kryz11]

Forza aside, Shift is also looking like it will give both a run for their money, as long as it's more sim than arcade. PD had better smell the coffee in the morning, cause unless they up their game in features, GT is destined to be left in the dust of more full featured racing games.

I've been willing to overlook all the missing elements of a racing game for years with GT, satisfied in it being a damn good driving simulator. But racing has damage, equipment failures, tire wear, and weather.

I can't speak of Forza 2's driving physics, but judging from other games I've played, GT gives me the best real world feel. After driving GT for several hours, and then hop into my real car, my mind can't tell the difference. I think GT can actually make you a better driver in the real world, which is something I seriously doubt can be said about any other console racer.

When I load up Gran Turismo, I want to drive; when I load up Grid, I want to play. It's a vast difference, Gran Turismo is for drivers, everything else is just a game; IMHO.

👍

Nicely said.

GT5P so far is giving best feedback so far... but yet we miss so many features from other games.. PD really needs to step up.

 

[The Outlaw]

offcourse you can judge grand turismo 5 P...
they have shiped it and people have bought it then you cant call it a demo
demo is free
gt5p issent

I would have to agree.

Prolouge is FAR from being a bargin considering the little content you get. It wouldn't have been a fair comparison had Prolouge been much cheaper than a full game, but it's not. Also you must consider the fact that Prolouge is all PD has to offer for PS3 at the moment, regardless if it is only a preview/demo of things to come. Yea it may only be a tenth of what GT5 will have to offer, but when the hell will that be? By then Forza 3 will probably be released making the "but it's only Prolouge" absolute blasphamy. I believe that if PD continues at a snails pace with their "we have a monopoly on the market" mind set, they will quickly be behind the 8 ball in the years to come...sorry to say.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Prolouge is FAR from being a bargin considering the little content you get. It wouldn't have been a fair comparison had Prolouge been much cheaper than a full game, but it's not.

I don't know about where you live, but over here (Netherlands) GT5P cost me 37 euros at the day of release in the regular shops (webshops had it even cheaper), where a normal game would cost me 65-70 euros. That's about 57% of the price of a full game. Sounds cheap to me.

 

[otago]

Prolouge is FAR from being a bargin considering the little content you get.

Depends to what you compare. LFS and rFactor have like 10 cars and they are not 10$ as well. And basic iRacing package has 2 (yes, two) cars and costs 20$ monthly. If you want another around 8 cars which are in game, you have to pay in addition

So GTP value doesn't look bad at all

 

[The Outlaw]

I don't know about where you live, but over here (Netherlands) GT5P cost me 37 euros at the day of release in the regular shops (webshops had it even cheaper), where a normal game would cost me 65-70 euros. That's about 57% of the price of a full game. Sounds cheap to me.

I believe I paid $44.99 (USD) for GT5P a month or two after the release. Most games here in the U.S. are in the $55-$60 range, making Prolouge roughly 75%the cost of a full game which would have 10 times the content. I'd say the small price discrepancy between GT5P and Forza 2 still justifies a fair comparison of the two, instead of using the excuse that GT5P is just a demo. The bottom line is that it's an expensive demo at that, while being the only thing PD has to offer in order to compete with Forza 2 ATM. That was my original intention when I brought up that fact that Inside Sim Racing was perfectly justified in comparing the two games because of their near equal prices, regardless if Prolouge is just a preview of things to come 👍

Depends to what you compare. LFS and rFactor have like 10 cars and they are not 10$ as well. And basic iRacing package has 2 (yes, two) cars and costs 20$ monthly. If you want another around 8 cars which are in game, you have to pay in addition

So GTP value doesn't look bad at all

Well I was referring to Forza 2 when I made that assessment, as that's what this thread and video review were based on. Can't really justify comparing GT5P to LFS, Rfactor or any PC sim for that matter.

 

[otago]

I believe I paid $44.99 (USD) for GT5P a month or two after the release.

Was it 40$ game?

 

[machscnel]

This comparision really suprised me. I seem to remember SRT's Prologue review which was full of praise for the physics(competition fo PC sims I think they said). Now all of a sudden they are not good anymore. What changed?
I wouldn't bother comparing the two games though, I'm just dissapointed in their change of heart.

Did anyone else notice the reviewers were acting like they were both full games? When they said "GT5 has no tracks or cars" i thought fair enough, now tell people its a demo, but it never came.

 

[petter mo]

actualy in norway it costed 53 dollars when it came out
but a full game cost about 88 dollars så it is a bit cheaper..
so its expensive to be a gamer in norway...

 

[petter mo]

This comparision really suprised me. I seem to remember SRT's Prologue review which was full of praise for the physics(competition fo PC sims I think they said). Now all of a sudden they are not good anymore. What changed?
I wouldn't bother comparing the two games though, I'm just dissapointed in their change of heart.

Did anyone else notice the reviewers were acting like they were both full games? When they said "GT5 has no tracks or cars" i thought fair enough, now tell people its a demo, but it never came.

yeah it was a bit funny and the part where they said i hope gt5 brings more tracks in a dlc pack soon.. and maby more cars.. so i think they didnt know that it is just a proluge of gt5 not a full realees thats hopfully coming soon..

 

[AutoAki]

This comparision really suprised me. I seem to remember SRT's Prologue review which was full of praise for the physics(competition fo PC sims I think they said). Now all of a sudden they are not good anymore. What changed?
I wouldn't bother comparing the two games though, I'm just dissapointed in their change of heart.

Did anyone else notice the reviewers were acting like they were both full games? When they said "GT5 has no tracks or cars" i thought fair enough, now tell people its a demo, but it never came.

GT5P did get good physics points... if Forza2 did get littlebit better, it wont mean GT5P's physics aint good, it only means Forza2 has littlebit better. I dont know about that, cause I only have GT5P, and iRacing experience.

I watched that review yesterday, and they mentioned few times that GT5P is just Prologue, and that final version propably will have damage and better online, tracks etc etc... I think you did not watch second half of that review which came in the end of show?

 

[Obli]

A thread like this could only ever end in tears...

My preference is GT5: Prologue. Considering they are comparing an early iteration of GT5 (call it a demo, beta, what you like), they really shouldn't be comparing quantity of content. I would have rated Prologue higher for tracks, car models and physics, based on the quality of what is there, not what it could / should be in the full release.

 

[paskowitz]

^^^^
Exactly.

 

[JDigital]

After reflecting on this for a day it can all be summed up pretty easily...

Do you really care about the opinion of a sloppy driving punter, even if he is on a webcast?

The dude don't know how to take a turn, what makes you think he's qualified to talk about physics?

(If you are curious what I mean, watch the review again and pay close attention to the in-game footage, nothing there could be considered decent driving. And I'd be willing to bet that they even drive on standard physics with assists.)

 

[Tenacious D]

I agree with JDigital, these racing fans race like little kids, at least in Forza.

I'd quibble over a number of their statements and judgments too. The only track that really could be called bumpy in Forza 2 is Sebring. Every other track including the Nurburgring Nord is extremely smooth. Not only that, but way too wide. Someone took a shot of their car on a carousel, and it looked like a 1/3 scale model. Take any car on the Nurb at full speed in GT4 and it's almost scary, how your car can bounce around. And while Gran Turismo has understeer issues, nearly every car in Forza wants to oversteer, and often with just moderate power. Ferrari Challenge, which evidently uses the Forza engine juiced up with PhysX, has the same issue. And sports tires seem to stick to the road almost like racing tires in Forza, as you can fly around turns a bit too fast.

And not mentioning ONCE that Prologue is a prologue? Gee whiz...

While I differ over some of the praise heaped on Forza 2, they do a lot of things right. But as many others have posted, in spite of a few flaws with Prologue, it really feels more authentic, especially with a good wheel controller like the Driving Force GT (R.I.P., DF Pro). I'm hopeful that GT5 has some of the low-moderate speed tire grip issues tweaked, and then even PC sims will have to show respect. But if not, it's still going to blow everyone's doors off, because Prologue is so close to reality, it's uncanny.

 

[Oner]

If you go to the YouTube page HERE and search for my replies (under OnerGT) you will see some of the points I have made clear about their inaccuracies with this "VS" and the weak explanations given by them....actually I'll post them here as I am quite positive they will be removed/deleted

Me ~

Sorry to sound negative in this & my following post but the lack of previous knowledge or experience with GT's line of Prologues & Concepts seems to hurt SRT's expertise in this comparison

GT 1, 2 & 3
GT 2000 Demo
GT Concept 2001 Tokyo
GT Concept 2002 Tokyo-Seoul
GT Concept 2002 Tokyo-Geneva
GT 4 Prologue
GT Prius Demo
GT BMW 1-series Demo
GT Nissan Micra Demo
GT Nissan 350Z Demo
GT 4
GT 4 Online Test Version
GT HD Demo
GT 5 Prologue Japanese Demo
GT 5 Prologue

But to the points & critiques I want to make about some issues.

1) Within the in-game footage there are NUMEROUS poor car control issues (punts, crashes, braking & off tracks) for "experts" in the Game/Sim Racing field

2) I believe you may be using an inaccurate scoring design by what seems to be based off a comparison to PC Sims

3) I don't expect you guys to know everything about everything but I do think someone who is dedicated to console Racing is needed to have a "pure" view

simracingtonight ~

Not sure how.. I ran GT4 and 3 and am very familiar with the series. Not sure how that makes a difference when driving GT5. We loved the game, but it needs damage and more tracks.

Me ~

That's the issue right there. You're inexperience with previous iterations of Prologue & Concepts (or possibly overall console specific racing titles) clouds your ability to understand that it is not GT5.

It is not a demo (which you do state & agree) but you don't rate/score it on it's merits of being just that....a Prologue, and comparing it to a FULL title based on IT'S merits is incorrect and short changing the Prologue's score. Resulting in an inaccurate "VS" comparison.

simracingtonight ~

Not sure what previous interations have to do with this one.. Were we supposed to compare the whole series ? It was the best sim racer currently on the PS3 versus the best on the XBox 360.. plain and simple. GT5 is not a demo.. It's a full game that costs money to play and has been updated with 3 large patches. They can call it Prologue all they want, bottom line is that they have had many years to come out with a version that includes more tracks. Thats all thats missing from this game/

Me ~

Again you are just reinforcing what I am saying about your blindness/mistaken view about GT5 ***Prologue***. It is not GT5 nor have I ever said it's a demo!

What I am saying is that your lack of experience with the previous GT*4* Prologue & other remaining GT Concepts makes you misjudge the GT5 ***Prologue*** inaccurately and unreliably

Prologue ~ A preliminary discourse; a preface or introductory part of a discourse. Preceding event that shows a solid idea/line of a final product

Demo ~ A brief illustration, short, early, barely-functional version of a program with bugs ranging from minor to numerous of which can be used for demonstration purposes only for a test run but not a full product

And in a separate comment:

simracingtonight ~

......If a new company came out with a "Prologue" they would not be able to sell it and make 90 million dollars on it.

I don't care what word they put ont he title, it's a full game. Thats our opinion.. Sorry.. We wish they came out with more tracks, thats all thats really missing. Damage has never been in a GT title.

Me ~

And your opinion is misinformed by your inability to understand what a Prologue is and what it has been in the GT line of products.

 

[paskowitz]

Yeah these guys are usually really good but on this one they dropped the ball. Seriously. Sure Forza 2 is overall a better game but guess what GT5p is a "p" and should be treated as such. It does not matter because once GT5 comes out this argument will end up like this guy, dead!

 

[otago]

The only track that really could be called bumpy in Forza 2 is Sebring. Every other track including the Nurburgring Nord is extremely smooth.

LOL. You can easily loose control on Laguna Seca bumps if you suspension is not too tight in Forza. The bump on straight before Corkscrew is probably the worst

In GT all this bumps do nothing

 

[Kryz11]

So far so good guys. I can see it was not a CLEAN VS video because one game is still in the works. As well I can agree that you guys do mention that Physics should be way better over Forza2's ...

So far soo good, keep it clean.

 

[TofuStoreDrift]

I think SRT fails to realise the GT5P is a world-wide beta test, not a full game. Sure it cost money but, making a top notch game, like Gran Turismo 5 will be, is very expensive. Not every company can get away with making a game that has small car counts, like some PC games that survive off community support to make large car counts. I know this is starting to sound like jibberish but, it sounds right in my head

 

[gslooney]

I can see both sides off this, and frankly it doesn't matter. (did I say that)!

In one camp this is unfair because it's a full game vs a prologue or demo!

In the other camp it's if you paid for it then it's a full game vs full game, and it's the best simulator in both platforms.

Now for the record, I've never played Forza. I very nearly bought an Xbox and Forza, but chickened out in the end because the wheel support was crap.

I know that Fanatec have resolved this, but I have significant investment in a wheel and race frame that I'm not giving up just to play Forza!

Frankly these days I don't play GT5P either, why.. I'm bored with the circuits, and online is pretty much as bad as any online pc demo, destruction derby anyone - only without the destruction.

So where does that leave me..

Well I'm running rfactor, and other PC sims, in closed race servers online. pick your community and race what you want. great fun and polite racing.

Last time I raced GRID - PS3 on line, I had to put up with the Muppet who spent the whole race talking and swearing at everyone through his headset.. who needs this mentality!!

we talk of Physics... I've never driven most of the cars in these sims, I don't have a degree in mathematics, I can say that I thought the S3 in GT4 was close to my own S3, but only after I changed the power wieght ratios and turned off all the driver aids... Was it great physics.. I don't know.. It did feel good though.

So does physics/feel really matter, yes cars should feel different as they do in real life. FWD, RWD, 4WD all feel different. Front mid engine cars etc.. It's nice to experience this difference.

When GT5 is released will it then be a fair comparison?

NO

you'll have the very latest software/hardware technology (GT5 / PS3) vs a stack that's designed arround a platform thats now years old (XBOX/Forza).

The Thought that GT5 might go multi platform is frankly music to my ears.. Now I can upgrade my technology when I can afford a better platform and see the benefits in the game, I'm not tied to an old platform.

What's my PS3 doing now.. it's a media centre playing files from my NAas box, movies, videos and Music.. GT5 we'll have to wait and see...

personally I think in the end the SRT view was fair given where we are. It's about time that we saw more from GT5, if it's still work in progress make the rest downloadable content, and let's enjoy it. Why wait till it's complete?

 

[Tenacious D]

LOL. You can easily loose control on Laguna Seca bumps if you suspension is not too tight in Forza. The bump on straight before Corkscrew is probably the worst

In GT all this bumps do nothing

LOL Forza 2 doesn't even have Laguna Seca. Forza 1 doesn't have force feedback. In fact, Forza 1 doesn't even drive the same, unless possibly you're talking about by hand controller. Why don't you tell us how accurate the Nurburgring Nordschleife is in both games.

Honestly, I think you argue just to argue, so it's no wonder most people ignore you.

 

[marky5244]

Is the Force Feedback really very different between the Fanatec wheel and the G25 wheel? In the SRT review they made it sound if the two were in a completely different league from each other.

Mark, a concerned G25 owner.

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

LOL Forza 2 doesn't even have Laguna Seca. Forza 1 doesn't have force feedback. In fact, Forza 1 doesn't even drive the same, unless possibly you're talking about by hand controller. Why don't you tell us how accurate the Nurburgring Nordschleife is in both games.

Honestly, I think you argue just to argue, so it's no wonder most people ignore you.

Im not a expert,but I have driven laguna seca several times in forza 2.

About the video, I dont care about their opinion, sloppy drivers!

 

[Oner]

Wow. I just checked my email and had an auto notification that there was a reply from simracingtonight that said ~

And we really don't care..

Answer this GT master.. WHAT IS THE BEST RACER ON THE PS3 ?

Now that comment is nowhere to be found on the comments page so it was removed before I could answer back but, whatever. Great attitude and professionalism from these "so called experts in the field" who obviously can't take constructive criticism that is clear as day by their lack of being able to keep a car on track, blatant ramming of other vehicles, inability to use a brake for what it is intended for and overall poor car control amongst other things to say the least....expert sim race reviewers...what a damned joke.

 

[JosVerstappen]

hmm I think you the review on both sounds and force feedback was a bit basic, they really didnt say much about how cars sounded, only about what had the best music? lol

and force feedback, they didn't tell anything about what you can feel through the steering wheel. they said that the fanatec feels better in gt5 then the g25... but they didnt say much about forca's FF.

 

[Kryz11]

**** EDIT *****
Once again guys, please as well go and complain on their youtube! Make them realize they did score GT5P too low in some ares.



Yeah they still think Console gaming is Not PC sim..
Music .. haha to me GT5P has way better and fresh music. In FZ2 I go to options menus, paint a car, and you hear same stupid SONGS!!! they are so damn annoying. In GT5P you hear JAZZ, many of you laugh its elevator music, but it calms you down after a race, and when you wanna tune a car and what not, GT5 full game should keep it.
During gameplay I turn them off both for FZ2 and GT5P. But I tested out CAR SOUNDS. Surprisingly, both sound the same. I used 5.1 and Huge Theater system options in GT5P and I compared the Vette to Vette in FZ2, sounds the same, Mustang sounds the same, Few other cars! Only differance were more in cars like the Lotus, Forza mess up big time there.. but hey even GT5P is still missing some notes ... Another thing for sound is that GT5 is bit more crisp over FZ2.

And yeah they did not mention GT5P has 900 degree and for me way better sensation!

Is the Force Feedback really very different between the Fanatec wheel and the G25 wheel? In the SRT review they made it sound if the two were in a completely different league from each other.

Mark, a concerned G25 owner.

G25 is good, but has only two froce feedback motors. The Fanatec, ( I will get my soon so I'll make a lil review on it and compare it to G25) Has two belt driven motors so its way smoother with no dead zone as well it has vibration functions to add bit more realism. That is based off reviews and specs..

In GT5P and GT4 on PS3, the G25 is way weaker and bit less responsive over DFP for example. But the DFP, it's no good by today standards. I have my G25 for long time now, and someone has mention that some older G25s with GT5 only work one motor and not two. That might be because for me it feels really weak. Even so the G25 has notorious dead zone, something Fanatec does not offer.

I do no think you should be concerned. There are always better wheels over one another, always.

 

[JDigital]

Its funny how they didn't combat the statement about their poor driving... they know they suck, and somehow they get to review racing sims... interesting.

Maybe I should start reviewing rocket design because I'm about as qualified for that as they are for reviewing racing sims.

EDIT:
I left a nice little comment for them on their youtube page:

These so called "experts", and yes we're using that term quite liberally, are hardly what they claim. Not in one single section of footage did I see ANY "expert" driving. I saw ramming, off tracks, retarded braking (and lack thereof), horrible lines, and even CHASE CAM!? I think you guys should stick to Burnout and similar arcade games because it's clear that you suck at driving. Which makes me wonder why you're reviewing racing sims? I bet you even use Standard physics with assists... so noob.

 

[The Outlaw]

LOL Forza 2 doesn't even have Laguna Seca. Forza 1 doesn't have force feedback. In fact, Forza 1 doesn't even drive the same, unless possibly you're talking about by hand controller. Why don't you tell us how accurate the Nurburgring Nordschleife is in both games.

Honestly, I think you argue just to argue, so it's no wonder most people ignore you.

Forza 2 does have Laguna Seca in it, as Volcano mentioned 👍

 

[JDigital]

Ok guys, break out your NTSC discs and lets race the SRT people. They should be coming to the race chat around 8:30 EST to do some Expert Suzuka 550pp RWD.

heres the quotes:

Jasen1337 (7 seconds ago) Show Hide
Challenge accepted. GT5P, Expert Suzuka 550pp RWD. Come to GTPlanet race chat tonight around 8:30pm EST... hopefully we'll have some more NTSC users on as well. I'll put the word out.

simracingtonight (1 hour ago) Show Hide
Thanks for the post Mickey.. We knew we'd hear a ton of crap about this shootout.. ;-)

Funny thing is that if GT5P had damage, the shootout would have been a lot closer.

simracingtonight (1 hour ago) Show Hide
Anytime you want to see how we drive.. hit us up..

We're not going anywhere.. We'll be doing GT5 vs Forza 3 as well.

Stay tuned for episode 40 and you will see what was cut out about us mentioning GT5 as Prologue.. Call it what you want. It's a full game that sold and made probably at least 100 million dollars. All they will add are a few more tracks and make another 100 million.

Please point us to a racing title that we should have used to compare Forza against that is on the PS3.

simracingtonight (1 hour ago) Show Hide
LOL !! Anyone of you that has called us a noob. Feel free to pick any racing sim on the PC, PS3 or 360 and we'll meet up.

I love how you use the footage of us thrashing around in Forza or GT5 as an example of how we race.

You can reach us by emailing this account directly . We'll be happy to show you how noob we are..

Jasen1337 (2 hours ago) Show Hide

These so called "experts", and yes we're using that term quite liberally, are hardly what they claim. Not in one single section of footage did I see ANY "expert" driving. I saw ramming, off tracks, retarded braking (and lack thereof), horrible lines, and even CHASE CAM!? I think you guys should stick to Burnout and similar arcade games because it's clear that you suck at driving. Which makes me wonder why you're reviewing racing sims? I bet you even use Standard physics with assists... so noob.

 

[Timppaq]

8:30 EST

Just out of interest, what is that in terms of GMT?

edit,

ah it's now 14:07 EST, I suppose...