iracing.com

[ITCC_Andrew]

Yes, I feel like we are arguing but on the same side

Okay, divert to relevant thread: GTP thread: "Save the Manuals"


To summarize: I like all transmissions, automatics are slow, manuals are fast, single clutch is unpredictable, dual clutch is fast.

 

[OLDSKOOLACURA]

You're going to have to show me that. Anyways, have we beat the iRacing transmission squabble to death, or do we want to bring this up in a relevant thread?

I'll try and find it over the weekend, should be easier now that I got the 18 season box set for xmas , still will be hard to find lol

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I'll try and find it over the weekend, should be easier now that I got the 18 season box set for xmas , still will be hard to find lol

Thanks. At least you know which car you're looking for.

 

[OLDSKOOLACURA]

Thanks. At least you know which car you're looking for.

yep no problem. Popular car on Top Gear though lol

 

[superbike81]

standard shifting makes the ride more fun even if you are just cruising.

Well, as with many things in this world, "fun" is a subjective term.

I *never* found manual transmissions to be fun, I found them to be a chore. As a kid I wondered how after so many years we still didn't have a better solution.

I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, just sharing my opinion on the matter.

 

[OLDSKOOLACURA]

Well, as with many things in this world, "fun" is a subjective term.

I *never* found manual transmissions to be fun, I found them to be a chore. As a kid I wondered how after so many years we still didn't have a better solution.

I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, just sharing my opinion on the matter.

I know, and you are right about "fun".

I only really thought of it as a chore when stuck in traffic. I like having automatic in my big luxury car and stick shift in my smaller fun cars.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Okay, divert to relevant thread: GTP thread: "Save the Manuals"


To summarize: I like all transmissions, automatics are slow, manuals are fast, single clutch is unpredictable, dual clutch is fast.

Well, as with many things in this world, "fun" is a subjective term.

I *never* found manual transmissions to be fun, I found them to be a chore. As a kid I wondered how after so many years we still didn't have a better solution.

I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, just sharing my opinion on the matter.

iRacing thread is for iRacing. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just sharing my link on the matter.


Regardless of the above, and my previous attempts to control the off-topic, to save ourselves the scrolling, what's the status on the site? Is it up again yet?

 

[superbike81]

iRacing thread is for iRacing. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just sharing my link on the matter.


Regardless of the above, and my previous attempts to control the off-topic, to save ourselves the scrolling, what's the status on the site? Is it up again yet?

I'm at work, browsing the forums now, usually when the forums are up race servers are up to. Should be good to go.

 

[OLDSKOOLACURA]

this is a "noob" question, but does anyone know where Iracing HQ is?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

this is a "noob" question, but does anyone know where Iracing HQ is?

There are a few, across USA, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. I know they're in USA.

 

[Jdraegon]

There are a few, across USA, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. I know they're in USA.

Bedford Mass.

 

[superbike81]

Down again. That weather must be kicking their butts.

 

[superbike81]

Would be cool if we had an offline test mode for times like these.

 

[smuffyatfcp]

Would this be good enough to run iRacing on full settings? Thanks to Matty for the link.

 

[Kamuifanboy]

Yeah. So, I suppose you won't be the next Colin McRae?

Just curious why we are talking about winter driving? All I mentioned was that winter weather might be the problem with the servers. I have no intention of driving rally cars. I have a lot of respect for them as I assume that it's bloody difficult. But, I have no interest in becoming the next rally superstar.

 

[ErikAndre71]

Thats great that YOU dont see any issues with the tire model, but your the minority with that opinion. Most everyone else does see a problem with the tire model, including the Iracing staff. Why else would Iracing be working on fixing it if there was no problem. They have said the new steering model on the MP4 along with some tire fixes should help the problem alot on the other cars. Im sure glad Iracing can see the problem even if you cant.

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion I don't have ANY problems with the tire model. I agreed on 2 out of 4 points given by superbike81.. And I also have other issues I didn't mention. But they are all known like you said by the iRacing staff so we will have a fix. Thing about NTM was started by some saying if they don't fix it we wont race or something.

So if you can't read my post the way I type it, don't bother to make a fool out of yourself with a reply like this.. Makes me wonder if you were drunk or can't read.

Tony and Eric have admitted that they know that low speed behavior of the tires is completely messed up. It's actually been a problem for a very long time, back to the days of GP2 and GPL in the mid 90's when I started sim racing.

Where are you getting the idea that I am talking about street cars or street tires? The issues that I'm talking about with slip angle, saving slides, and low speed tire behavior are WELL documented. Just because you don't think there is a problem ErikAndre71 doesn't mean there isn't one. I'm not sure how long you've been around sim racing but these problems have been around for many years.

Read a little history on tire models, specifically the Pacejka model. You'll find that many of the problems we are experiencing in iRacing have been around for many years.

I have close to none experience with sim racing compared to others, but when you say it's easy to save a power slide, even with quite big slip angle compared to the sim. Well how can I not get that idea? I've been power sliding in a road car with different tiers and suspensions. I also been in a GT2 and a GT3 car. And my experience was the better the grip, the harder the snap was when you lost grip.
Then when I manage to power slide like a drifter around the carousel on Road America in the Riley I fail to see your point.


And to make it clear to everyone. YES there is a problem with the tire, what it is, is known to the iRacing staff alone. We can think we know what's wrong, but when it comes to coding this into a program like iRacing. One thing will affect the other so even if we see the tires as too good when they are cold or have to little wear.. Could be something totally different in the coding.

And by the look of it, no team in Formula1 liked the tires for the 2012 season, but in the end it was who managed it the best. They couldn't go flat out like they used to, they had to adapt.
I know it's a other way around problem, but I see the guys yelling the most of the NTM to be a bunch of cry babies who demand like spoiled brats.. We know they are working on it, but still they complain like kids who want their first iPhone before the age of 10..

And superbike81, if you really find it easier to save slides IRL I fail to see why you don't race for real. I would assume you are one fast guy and when you can save the car from destruction when going sideways you could replace anyone in formula 1 I guess.

 

[fatkrakr]

I have no idea how you came to the conclusion I don't have ANY problems with the tire model. I agreed on 2 out of 4 points given by superbike81.. And I also have other issues I didn't mention. But they are all known like you said by the iRacing staff so we will have a fix. Thing about NTM was started by some saying if they don't fix it we wont race or something.

So if you can't read my post the way I type it, don't bother to make a fool out of yourself with a reply like this.. Makes me wonder if you were drunk or can't read.

Whatever...

 

[superbike81]

ErikAndre I'm not sure why you are being so defensive about this.

I explained in my other post, which you apparently ignored, why people are complaining so much. These erratic behaviors we get from the tire model have been around since sim racing started with the Pacejka model. If you drive a real race car on slicks, once the tires are warmed up, if you drive at about 90% you have to practically try to get it to spin out. In iRacing (and many other sims) we get 0.1% to much slip angle and it's impossible to save. We can all save slides in iRacing, but it's like an on/off switch once you go over a certain slip angle. The only way we can save those kind of slides is with the cleverly named "2FMSH" (two foot magic save hack) which is essentially pressing the gas and brake all the way down and holding it until your car straightens out. iRacing advertises itself as the best racing simulator out there. With that kind of claim, these tire issues that have been around for decades should be top priority to fix. Especially since other "lesser" sims have already fixed these issues.

I never said I was good enough to be a Formula 1 driver, so quit acting like I did. Granted, I did grow up actually racing formula cars, so I think I know a little about the way that slick tires *should* behave. I started in Formula Ford back in 1988 and moved up to Formula Continental in 1993. I wasn't ever a top runner, I was a mid-packer at best, but I had the ability to control the car quite well.

I am a colossally slow sim racer, but I don't blame the tire model or anything else but my own lack of time and commitment to get faster. But I can rightfully identify things that are keeping the racing from being much better than it is now.

1) Tire wear/conservation is non existant.
2) Tires exhibit strange low speed behavior often resulting in a spin when it really shouldn't have.
3) Tire temperatures do not coincide properly with their behavior
4) The surface is static, so getting off the racing line doesn't hurt nearly as much as it should. (try rFactor 2 to understand this a little better).
5) No flat spotting which means the same guys can lock up their brakes corner after corner and not be punished. Late braking wannabe Sennas.

Just imagine how much better the racing could be if we had those glaring issues fixed? It would actually become i"RACING" instead of i"Hotlapping" which is essentially what we have now.

 

[superbike81]

Would this be good enough to run iRacing on full settings? Thanks to Matty for the link.

No it won't. Not with onboard graphics. The rest of the system will run a single 1080p screen just fine on high graphic settings. But the onboard graphics aren't going to cut it. Depending on the power supply you could get a better video card to add to it though. You could get something that will run it decently well for less than $150 US. Although I'm not sure what that equates to in the UK.

 

[superbike81]

If any of you haven't yet, please try out NetKar Pro. It will give you an idea of how much better the tire model could potentially be in iRacing. It of course has it's small share of problems too, but nothing like the problems we have with iRacing's NTM.

NetKar Pro is the main reason so many people are excited about Assetto Corsa. Graphics and stuff like that of course help, but if they can replicate the feel of NetKar Pro in Assetto Corsa, it will have iRacing beat by a long shot for that portion of the sim at least.

Don't get me wrong, I still love iRacing, I just want the tires to behave like tires, which they don't right now.

 

[Nastradamus87]

Maybe I'm just a tech geek, but I don't understand the fascination of the clutch pedal. I grew up driving traditional manual transmissions, but I'm over it to be honest. I always found it more of a pointless chore than "fun." If we have newer better technology out there that allows us to go without it, why not embrace it? Especially if it allows you to potentially be faster.

This whole "be a man" thing when it comes to the third pedal is ridiculous. I guess racers from the 50's would say "be a man" about bias ply tires and leather helmets too. How far are we going to take "being a man?"

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but would like to chime in briefly.

I don't have a strong affinity for clutch pedals, espcially in sims where you don't have the tactile feedback to feel when the clutch engages and disengages. I do, however, like to drive cars in sims as they are driven in real life; use paddles if it has paddles, or use clutch and stick if it's manual.

As for incorporating new technology into cars in order to reduce lap times, I would be a bit careful with that idea. There are many technologies which certainly make the car go faster around the track but don't necessarily make the driving experience more fun. Some possible exaples are technologies that take over responisibilities of the driver: traction control, ABS, AWD (some would argue).

I'm not necessarily putting paddle shifters in the same category as the above examples, but I think people who are opposed to them have this kind of feeling towards them.

 

[Jdraegon]

I do, however, like to drive cars in sims as they are driven in real life; use paddles if it has paddles, or use clutch and stick if it's manual.

I can understand a desire for realism, no question, but I also build custom rock crawlers and transmissions are as interchangeable as any other component as long as you know what fits, with the right combination you can use any transmission with any engine so long as you source the proper bell housing and any transfer case with any transmission so long as you change either the output shaft of the transmission or the input shaft of the transfer case.

Same for any track car I would build, paddles may be a little expensive, but a sequential is a very simple thing to build in any mid-engine or rear engine car that already uses cable or electronic systems to shift. I use the paddles in iRacing on everything, not because it's about being lazy, more about being cheap, I dont have a sequential box for the sim, at some point I will have one, and I'll have a lever throw for the e-brake, until then I'll keep pulling the paddles and not worry about the clutch.

In fact, I moved my clutch to center pedal and brake to left pedal to make left foot braking easier.

 

[superbike81]

As for incorporating new technology into cars in order to reduce lap times, I would be a bit careful with that idea. There are many technologies which certainly make the car go faster around the track but don't necessarily make the driving experience more fun. Some possible exaples are technologies that take over responisibilities of the driver: traction control, ABS, AWD (some would argue).

I'm not necessarily putting paddle shifters in the same category as the above examples, but I think people who are opposed to them have this kind of feeling towards them.

Most race cars nowadays use some form of traction control and many have ABS. AWD all depends on the series of course.

As for driving in the game the way they are in real life, that's fine, but I find it annoying that my rig currently has a TH8RS, a DSD Pro Sequential, and my wheels with paddles. It's just too much and makes everything look cluttered. I'm a minimalist, so I'm eliminating the extra shifters and just driving everything paddle shift. Although most of the cars I enjoy sim racing are paddle shift anyways.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Just curious why we are talking about winter driving? All I mentioned was that winter weather might be the problem with the servers. I have no intention of driving rally cars. I have a lot of respect for them as I assume that it's bloody difficult. But, I have no interest in becoming the next rally superstar.

I'm not saying that. However, learning to drive on snow is a rewarding, (and applicable) experience for driving on dry tarmac. I'm just saying, it must be weird, hearing about a snowstorm, and not being able to play iRacing because of the snowstorm, without the possibility of learning to drive quickly on the snow.


I don't know. It seems a bit unfair/weird. Winter driving is even harder than driving in the wet, and "driving in the wet separates the men from the boys." So, yeah, I feel weird about it.

 

[ErikAndre71]

Can we talk about something else than snow, all I see in the snow is work.. shoveling snow is not funny.

And to drive in it isn't hard at all, its just boring because you spend 5 minutes extra in the car every day on your way to work. And beside that it's freezing..

And if you talk about rallying in the snow, well the tires they have now, have tons of grip even on ice.

Two friends of mine drive Rally and also on snow, witch they find easier than on dirt, because snow is more predictable than dirt with different size stones in it.. that roles. And some stages also have tarmac to it, more of a challenge was their words about it.

So don't feel weird about having that crappy element, we have it as well, to bad we couldn't move all the snow we get during a winter over to you who seem to like it

 

[Nastradamus87]

I can understand a desire for realism, no question, but I also build custom rock crawlers and transmissions are as interchangeable as any other component as long as you know what fits, with the right combination you can use any transmission with any engine so long as you source the proper bell housing and any transfer case with any transmission so long as you change either the output shaft of the transmission or the input shaft of the transfer case.

Same for any track car I would build, paddles may be a little expensive, but a sequential is a very simple thing to build in any mid-engine or rear engine car that already uses cable or electronic systems to shift. I use the paddles in iRacing on everything, not because it's about being lazy, more about being cheap, I dont have a sequential box for the sim, at some point I will have one, and I'll have a lever throw for the e-brake, until then I'll keep pulling the paddles and not worry about the clutch.

In fact, I moved my clutch to center pedal and brake to left pedal to make left foot braking easier.

I know what you mean, but I would still like to stick with whatever transmission type iRacing has modeled for a given car. Using different kinds of transmissions is part of the driving experience! Driving the MX5 with paddles and auto-clutch feels so different than driving it from how it was modeled. Now, not being able to shift a car properly because you don't have the required equipment is completely reasonable. None of us are millionaires (as far as I know), and sim equipment isn't cheap.

Most race cars nowadays use some form of traction control and many have ABS. AWD all depends on the series of course.

How does this refute my point that just because a new technology will make a car faster doesn't necessarily mean it will make it more fun to drive? Please address F1's ban on traction control and ABS in your explanation if you can.

As for driving in the game the way they are in real life, that's fine, but I find it annoying that my rig currently has a TH8RS, a DSD Pro Sequential, and my wheels with paddles. It's just too much and makes everything look cluttered. I'm a minimalist, so I'm eliminating the extra shifters and just driving everything paddle shift. Although most of the cars I enjoy sim racing are paddle shift anyways.

Different priorities for different objectives, perhaps. I use sims first for training and second for fun. Having to multitask a clutch and/or shifter is a part of real racing so I wouldn't want to leave it out.

 

[Roush_fan_99]

^80% of your results come from 20% of your efforts
Sorry couldn't help it

 

[VINCE__]

Guess what? Dagnabbit!!

 

[Jdraegon]

Isnt this like 3 nights in a row that iRacing cant keep the servers up and running?

 

[superbike81]

Actually I believe it's 4 nights in a row now. LOL

Glad this started when my 7 days straight of duty started instead of my 7 days off last week.