iRacing style race league even possible in GT5?

[WedgeX]

this isn't a shot at the GT5 community.... its just that I have been thinking about starting an iRacing style semi-competitive league in GT5 for such a long time... since I started GT5 and iRacing at the same time and found it very tough to find anything race wise in GT that resembled any iRace I'd been involved in...although on occasion I have actually had some decent racing in Gt5 with a few friends who only play GT5 ... mostly with Shuffle racing, Unfortunately the problem with Clean-Shuffle is that as much as the people who play it like to say its all about the driver, its Not really if we're honest - you are penalized for winning races by being given inferior cars and grid position on the next race... I have won and lost most shuffle races because of the car I had... the wins weren't satisfying and the losing was frustrating (being the slowest)... and that's the closest racing I've had in GT5 since I got it

and much of the problem with leagues is how complicated it is to get everyone to tune their cars the same... and a huge undertaking by the host-admin to organize - is there not a simpler way? Is it possible to force everyone to have the same car? or same car with equal PP or HP? ... ?? Forgive my ignorance.....


it seems like there is no way to be sure people don't cheat or over-tune their cars in the field.. am I missing something or does fair racing just not exist in GT5? ....

my dream league would be Fixed Car (nobody has any advantage but can tune suspension to they're liking... basically like iRacing) ...

I would pick (or give option to vote on) cars that have distinct characteristics and would gradually increase the speed of the cars during the season... either stock street cars or race cars that are tuned maxed out so its not likely anyone can claim an advantage on a car that can't be tuned.... and obviously no standard cars.

I have a friend who does alot of league racing..but the admins complain constantly about the struggle to keep it fair and people who race dirty (even people who sign up for clean racing) so....

Hell.. while I'm at it why don't I throw this out there

how bought a league for iRacer's only? ... you can't play unless we can look up your account by name on iRacing.com, lol

 

[left888]

You are talking about a GT5 race with only iRacing members? i can only speak for myself but i left GT5 for a reason. Currently my rig is set up with a T500 pedals and CSP's and a Derek Speare sequential shifter. That won't work on a console, like everything else on my rig. As i said i can only speak for myself, i haven't raced GT5 for almost a year. i have absolutely no desire of ever racing GT5 again. i suppose i have been spoiled with iRacing. Good luck with your race, i can see why you would want to do it but iRacing is superior in every way.

 

[ErikAndre71]

I have to agree with Left here, I got my computer, downloaded iRacing and after a few test runs I did my first race. The day after I found my PS3 only usable as a blu-ray player. As a rookie the racing wasn't better at all as some people seem to do insane things.. But all the flaws of GT5 wasn't there.

I'm not saying iRacing isn't free of flaws, but compared it just so much easier to live with. The most annoying thing about iRacing for me, is how Americanized it is. I know there are some Japanese and European tracks there and not all cars are from America, but all race series at this moment is pretty much what you can find in America.

I know SuperGT500 with the Honda HSV-010 and the BTCC Honda will become available and they are working on more UK tracks and it will make the sim so much more enjoyable for me.

Also I hate parts of the Safety Rating as both cars involved gets the same amount of penalty for car contact. Sounds great and in most cases it is.
But if I drive up behind you and do a police maneuver to make you spin I get a car contact 0-1 and the other guy gets the same car contact, but you can add loss of control and off track penalty. And most likely a visit in the pit. Driving like that should have been blacked flagged.
I like to drive safe, but not know what kind of moron you have behind you it makes me let people go ahead and pass me for free as I wont take that chance. And that's just not racing.

But all in all a great sim and I probably going ahead and will extend my 3 months to a year when I get my paycheck.

Not going back to GT5 if I didn't make that clear enough

 

[anastasis14]

Good to see you enjoying yourself erik

 

[Patrocles]

I have to agree with Left here, I got my computer, downloaded iRacing and after a few test runs I did my first race. The day after I found my PS3 only usable as a blu-ray player. As a rookie the racing wasn't better at all as some people seem to do insane things.. But all the flaws of GT5 wasn't there.

I'm not saying iRacing isn't free of flaws, but compared it just so much easier to live with. The most annoying thing about iRacing for me, is how Americanized it is. I know there are some Japanese and European tracks there and not all cars are from America, but all race series at this moment is pretty much what you can find in America.

I know SuperGT500 with the Honda HSV-010 and the BTCC Honda will become available and they are working on more UK tracks and it will make the sim so much more enjoyable for me.

Also I hate parts of the Safety Rating as both cars involved gets the same amount of penalty for car contact. Sounds great and in most cases it is.
But if I drive up behind you and do a police maneuver to make you spin I get a car contact 0-1 and the other guy gets the same car contact, but you can add loss of control and off track penalty. And most likely a visit in the pit. Driving like that should have been blacked flagged.
I like to drive safe, but not know what kind of moron you have behind you it makes me let people go ahead and pass me for free as I wont take that chance. And that's just not racing.

But all in all a great sim and I probably going ahead and will extend my 3 months to a year when I get my paycheck.

Not going back to GT5 if I didn't make that clear enough

excellent comments on the strengths and weaknesses of iRAcing!

I enjoy clean pickup racing, realistic physics, and the tracks that are available with iRAcing. GT5 is not very strong in these areas so that is why I have not touched GT5 in over 6 months.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

There are plenty of these:

Pick your poison:

GTP Rally series (on GT5)

C.A.M.'s Rising Star FIAT Trophy

Historic Touring/Muscle Car Masters

Bankfin Touring Car Championship

International Touring Car Championship

Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge

VLN Championship Endurance Races






Please don't assume that I'm shoving choices down your throat. I'm really not. I'm just showing you the number of good series. All of these are being run by the same groups of friends. NizmoDR3, TDZDave, Polarbear345 and I are friends. Rallymorten's a good guy. These are all just a few series of literally 100s.



Please don't say that good, clean racing isn't possible in GT5.


As for a pick-up series, I'm sorry to disappoint, but you have to plan an event in advance. For example: if you want to run sprint races, you have to give people advanced notice of when the races are, so they can schedule them. Pick-up races don't REALLY work on GT5, unless you plan them.

 

[Coxis]

Yeah, iRacing is the next level compared to GT5 and I haven't fired it up in several months now. It'd be difficult to gather enough people to sustain good attendance on a league.

 

[Tom.]

There are plenty of these:

Pick your poison:

GTP Rally series (on GT5)

C.A.M.'s Rising Star FIAT Trophy

Historic Touring/Muscle Car Masters

Bankfin Touring Car Championship

International Touring Car Championship

Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge

VLN Championship Endurance Races






Please don't assume that I'm shoving choices down your throat. I'm really not. I'm just showing you the number of good series. All of these are being run by the same groups of friends. NizmoDR3, TDZDave, Polarbear345 and I are friends. Rallymorten's a good guy. These are all just a few series of literally 100s.



Please don't say that good, clean racing isn't possible in GT5.


As for a pick-up series, I'm sorry to disappoint, but you have to plan an event in advance. For example: if you want to run sprint races, you have to give people advanced notice of when the races are, so they can schedule them. Pick-up races don't REALLY work on GT5, unless you plan them.

To be honest, even myself as a GT5 league admin running the IndyCar series, iRacing just beats it in every conceivable way from a league point of view and that's not even taking into account the awesome 'pick up and play' racing you can get in public races. If the people that I ran with in GT5 all had the cash and time to get into iRacing I would switch my league over to the software in a heartbeat.

It gives you proper results pages, a website template; realistic cars, tracks and physics, properly enforced cautions, a good mechanical and visual damage model and a variety and a level of precision and accuracy in every aspect of the sim that your average GT5 player could only dream of.

Mainly though, iRacing is better than GT5 online due to the number of 'serious' racers on the service at any time. On GT5, you can't really pick up and play in a random room because generally it will have at least four 9 year olds in the lobby who can't drive a car, or if not that, the level of driving standard will be low. Even in leagues, attendance tailing off is a real issue for all but the biggest series (Sprint Cup etc.) and there aren't 'literally 100's' like you say, there's probably about 20-25ish that run regularly and many don't have a brilliant standard of driving anyway. But in iRacing, you can hop into a race straight away (that 9 times out of 10 will be full with up to 20/30/40 drivers), 95% certain that the majority of the guys in your race are clean drivers who simply want to win just as much as you do. And that's why I love it.

 

[Jav]

The biggest problem I see with the GT5 leagues is a lack of reaserch and development by the organizers. I see a lot of great ideas but poor execution when it comes time to ensure balance of performance.
Right now I'm gonna tell you that the PP system doesn't mean crap! Same goes for HP/weight figures. You can come up with any formula you want but you need extensive testing to find that balance in performance. Once you find that balance it doesn't stop there, any good organizer will protect the series and the racers integrity by doing performance a verification process wich is another huge PITA.
Then comes the racing incidents and post race issues, running a league in GT5 is just too much work and it just isn't worth it! Trust me I did it for almost 2 years and did it the right way, the ammount of work and dedication needed is huge!
My best advice is if you really want to do it, go with the PURE guys, they have made all of this into a great system and will provide you with everything you need to create the best and most profesional league possible.

 

[Zathra5_]

Also I hate parts of the Safety Rating as both cars involved gets the same amount of penalty for car contact. Sounds great and in most cases it is.
But if I drive up behind you and do a police maneuver to make you spin I get a car contact 0-1 and the other guy gets the same car contact, but you can add loss of control and off track penalty. And most likely a visit in the pit. Driving like that should have been blacked flagged.

I'm new to iRacing but have been doing some reading. Apparently the incidents are inheritable so if someone brushes against you and you both get a 0x then you go veering off and smash into another car, you both get the 4x. But you still get to pit and he still gets the position so that does suck.

I have a group of friends in GT that are great to race with (www.supatunagt.com). We have casual and organized events and trust running with each other on track. Unfortunately, I've moved to the west coast which makes it harder to make events especially since it's often 9pacific before the kids get to sleep and I get to eat. I'm hoping iRacing fits the bill.

Right now, I'm just trying to get out of Rookie. Some pretty crazy driving in rookie. I never new a car could do so many summersaults at once. So far I'm really impressed with iRacing but I haven't yet experienced the quality of racing that I have had with my friends in GT.

 

[Jav]

Right now, I'm just trying to get out of Rookie. Some pretty crazy driving in rookie. I never new a car could do so many summersaults at once. So far I'm really impressed with iRacing but I haven't yet experienced the quality of racing that I have had with my friends in GT.

Once you get to C class you'll get there! Even on D class you can have great racing! But for most people it all comes together on C class racing.

 

[Blaze_409]

sometimes I wonder how I am reading one thread and put the post in another.

 

[ErikAndre71]

Once you get to C class you'll get there! Even on D class you can have great racing! But for most people it all comes together on C class racing.

Very true, just had my first Grand Am Sports Car Series MC in the Riley and the race was just great. 40minutes of pure fun, need to find some pace though as the guys are very fast

Member since 2012-06-26 so getting to C wasn't that hard, but it wasn't really fun either.. But I guess it's needed to separate the drivers from the gamer's

 

[Jav]

sometimes I wonder how I am reading one thread and put the post in another.

LMAO!!

Very true, just had my first Grand Am Sports Car Series MC in the Riley and the race was just great. 40minutes of pure fun, need to find some pace though as the guys are very fast

Member since 2012-06-26 so getting to C wasn't that hard, but it wasn't really fun either.. But I guess it's needed to separate the drivers from the gamer's

Steup makes a huge difference in the Riley, you might wanna scan the forums for good ones!

 

[Eric.]

Also I hate parts of the Safety Rating as both cars involved gets the same amount of penalty for car contact. Sounds great and in most cases it is.
But if I drive up behind you and do a police maneuver to make you spin I get a car contact 0-1 and the other guy gets the same car contact, but you can add loss of control and off track penalty. And most likely a visit in the pit. Driving like that should have been blacked flagged.)

Incidents don't work that way.

If car #1 is hit by car #2, both initially receive either the 0x for light contact or 4x for harder contact. You can probably spin a car with either one depending how you hit them. I'm pretty sure if it's a 4x, that's as far as it goes for both of you. But if its a 0x, and car 1 goes off-track (normally a 1x), and spins (normally a 2x), his 0x is promoted to a 1x, then promoted to a 2x. And if there's a wall impact after that it is promoted one more time to a 4x. So is car #2's incident.

You can also wreck an entire field and only receive a 4x. The whole event is an incident and you only receive the highest level for the type.

 

[ErikAndre71]

Well I'm very new to the thing and I never spin people. But I been spun a few times and it just feels like people do it for the fun of it. I haven't studied the way the safety rating work, but on the leader board after the race the guy pushing me out got a lot more positive SR than I did and I didn't even go off track for the rest of the race.. And not to mention the iRating as I was a lap down because of pit time.

But thanks for clearing it up Eric. Still feel spinning people out should result in atleast a drive through penalty. I know it would be hard to get the coding to work, but its not that many years ago coding car physics they have in iRacing would been seen as impossible.

And don't get me wrong I love the sim, but it's like my marriage, I love her with her flaws

Hope to see some of you on the track soon


And to Jav. I guess I should start look, I drove with the stock setup as I have to set my self into how the setup works. A lot to learn in this sim and I love it, but I also need the time.

 

[WedgeX]

The biggest problem I see with the GT5 leagues is a lack of reaserch and development by the organizers. I see a lot of great ideas but poor execution when it comes time to ensure balance of performance.
Right now I'm gonna tell you that the PP system doesn't mean crap! Same goes for HP/weight figures. You can come up with any formula you want but you need extensive testing to find that balance in performance. Once you find that balance it doesn't stop there, any good organizer will protect the series and the racers integrity by doing performance a verification process wich is another huge PITA.
Then comes the racing incidents and post race issues, running a league in GT5 is just too much work and it just isn't worth it! Trust me I did it for almost 2 years and did it the right way, the ammount of work and dedication needed is huge!
My best advice is if you really want to do it, go with the PURE guys, they have made all of this into a great system and will provide you with everything you need to create the best and most profesional league possible.

yea I agree with everyone here about why iRacing is better.... and I never said I was going to stop iRacing for GT5... lol, not likely - but its nice to apply what you learn to another game sometimes.

Jav ...why should the organizers of a league have to do research and development ... isn't that kind of for PD to put that in the game? ... not really sure what you mean...but it sounds like your blaming the people running the leagues for the shortcomings of the game - As a league admin/organizer HOW? can you ensure an equal race if the game literally doesn't allow you to? ... people aren't just going to voluntarily NOT CHEAT .... if there was any wiggle room in iRacing for tuning and gaining HP boosts over your opponents I guarantee you somebody would be cheating.

and Also ... who are these PURE guys your talking about, what does that even mean? ... I'm trying to figure out how to run an equal race (any race) in a league and ensure nobody has more power or PP .. I still don't know if that's possible? ... doesn't seem like anyone here knows. What is the performance verification process? ... Just trying to get to the bottom of this.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

yea I agree with everyone here about why iRacing is better.... and I never said I was going to stop iRacing for GT5... lol, not likely - but its nice to apply what you learn to another game sometimes.

Jav ...why should the organizers of a league have to do research and development ... isn't that kind of for PD to put that in the game? ... not really sure what you mean...but it sounds like your blaming the people running the leagues for the shortcomings of the game - As a league admin/organizer HOW? can you ensure an equal race if the game literally doesn't allow you to? ... people aren't just going to voluntarily NOT CHEAT .... if there was any wiggle room in iRacing for tuning and gaining HP boosts over your opponents I guarantee you somebody would be cheating.

and Also ... who are these PURE guys your talking about, what does that even mean? ... I'm trying to figure out how to run an equal race (any race) in a league and ensure nobody has more power or PP .. I still don't know if that's possible? ... doesn't seem like anyone here knows. What is the performance verification process? ... Just trying to get to the bottom of this.

It's easily possible. In my series, we run "rolling specs checks" during qualifying, when all of the drivers are on track. We change the specs to the specs each car should run, without warning.


As for the R&D reference, he means about balancing the performance of all of the cars.


In the ITCC, I spent about a month developing a list of 50+ cars, and testing and tuning each to within a tenth of each other. It's a labour of love, though, because the racing is very close.

 

[Patrocles]

Well I'm very new to the thing and I never spin people. But I been spun a few times and it just feels like people do it for the fun of it. I haven't studied the way the safety rating work, but on the leader board after the race the guy pushing me out got a lot more positive SR than I did and I didn't even go off track for the rest of the race.. And not to mention the iRating as I was a lap down because of pit time.

But thanks for clearing it up Eric. Still feel spinning people out should result in atleast a drive through penalty. I know it would be hard to get the coding to work, but its not that many years ago coding car physics they have in iRacing would been seen as impossible.

And don't get me wrong I love the sim, but it's like my marriage, I love her with her flaws

Hope to see some of you on the track soon


And to Jav. I guess I should start look, I drove with the stock setup as I have to set my self into how the setup works. A lot to learn in this sim and I love it, but I also need the time.

Wreckers in iRAcing are there, but less common once you get in higher classes and nothing like the number of wreckers I see in GT5!!!

Remember that iRacing also has the protest system. There may be no penalty put on the pilot for a protest, but IIBC the protest will stay on his protest record (i believe i was told for 6 months?), so if he is constantly wrecking people and being protested by other pilots he will be noticed by iRacing RC.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

My buddies and I just created a very similar "ladder system" on GT5. Details to come. World Motorsports Association.

 

[Jav]

Jav ...why should the organizers of a league have to do research and development ... isn't that kind of for PD to put that in the game? ... not really sure what you mean...but it sounds like your blaming the people running the leagues for the shortcomings of the game - As a league admin/organizer HOW? can you ensure an equal race if the game literally doesn't allow you to? ... people aren't just going to voluntarily NOT CHEAT .... if there was any wiggle room in iRacing for tuning and gaining HP boosts over your opponents I guarantee you somebody would be cheating.

and Also ... who are these PURE guys your talking about, what does that even mean? ... I'm trying to figure out how to run an equal race (any race) in a league and ensure nobody has more power or PP .. I still don't know if that's possible? ... doesn't seem like anyone here knows. What is the performance verification process? ... Just trying to get to the bottom of this.

Click in on the link on my signature and you'll see what I mean. The Specs on the cars are not just random numbers, it took a lot of testing, time and experience to get the cars to run competitively with each other.
Once you have this down you need to do a performance verification process where you'll call the cars one at a time to the track with it's particular Specs. Once the cars are on track they are not allowed to leave the track and qualifying starts and then the race. By doing this you are protecting yourself as well as your competitors from the threat of cheating.
Yes there are shortcomings on the game, but with a lot of work they can be overcomed.
Here you go this is PURE you won't find a more organized group than this guys anywhere:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=240909

 

[Cote Dazur]

Very true, just had my first Grand Am Sports Car Series MC in the Riley and the race was just great. 40minutes of pure fun, need to find some pace though as the guys are very fast

Member since 2012-06-26 so getting to C wasn't that hard, but it wasn't really fun either.. But I guess it's needed to separate the drivers from the gamer's

This is my experience as well. Except I am not at C yet and honestly I am not sure I will have the patience as I find the cars very odd to drive, the feedback is not that good, I can get use to it but they are not very good. The braking is weird, some cars cockpit view you can hardly see the track.

 

[Jav]

That's odd... Maybe try different settings, iRacings FFB is the best in the market. For the cockpit views maybe try different FOV settings till you find the one that better suits you.

 

[ErikAndre71]

Still I payed a year in advance after advancing and you went back to the buggy console game.. The cars doesn't feel strange, they feel a lot more real than GT5 that have the same feel to almost every car.. Different must be the tank car..

 

[left888]

This is my experience as well. Except I am not at C yet and honestly I am not sure I will have the patience as I find the cars very odd to drive, the feedback is not that good, I can get use to it but they are not very good. The braking is weird, some cars cockpit view you can hardly see the track.

After a while you will see that it's the console games that are weird and iRacing cars are awesome to drive, of course that is if you stick with the best Sim in the world.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

After a while you will see that it's the console games that are weird and iRacing cars are awesome to drive, of course that is if you stick with the best Sim in the world.

Because I live not far from Mosport, I know the track. Their rendition IS millimetre perfect, IMO.

 

[Cote Dazur]

After a while you will see that it's the console games that are weird and iRacing cars are awesome to drive, of course that is if you stick with the best Sim in the world.

Totally agree console games are weird, I was refering to GT5.
Not saying it is perfect either, but good enough to play every day online and off line for a very long time.
The Physic in IRacing is superior to all console game I have tried, but not to GT5. Since sims driving is miles away from the real driving experience, off or on track, beeing one meter closer one way or the other does not make much difference. To me GT5 is closer and feel better because of the better feedback.
IRacing might be the best online racing sim in the world, it has a lot to offer for online racing.
To me there is more to Sim than that important aspect.

@Mister melancholy, I agree that the tracks are great, never drove at Mosport, but if IRacing was rendering Calabogie or Tremblant then I could compare to the real thing.

 

[left888]

Because I live not far from Mosport, I know the track. Their rendition IS millimetre perfect, IMO.

Mosport is one of my favorite tracks on iRacing, I just love it. I envy you for living so close to it.

The Physic in IRacing is superior to all console game I have tried, but not to GT5.

Sorry, that statement does not hold water. GT5 does not even come close to iRacing in any sense of the matter. Lets be clear on this, GT5 is a game and not a very good one at that.

Do you actually believe that nearly 100 real race car drivers use iRacing because GT5 has better physics or because GT5 is more realistic? You are only fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

 

[ErikAndre71]

Don't bother with him Darren, he is obviously a fanboy that love to slam the brakes infront of every corner.. I bet that what scared him out of iRacing.

Physics sucks!!! Lets go back to the outdated black box and do the car museum game again!

 

[Cote Dazur]

Mosport is one of my favorite tracks on iRacing, I just love it. I envy you for living so close to it.

Sorry, that statement does not hold water. GT5 does not even come close to iRacing in any sense of the matter. Lets be clear on this, GT5 is a game and not a very good one at that.

Do you actually believe that nearly 100 real race car drivers use iRacing because GT5 has better physics or because GT5 is more realistic? You are only fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

I believe that racers like Iracing a lot because it has the most acurate tracks with a fantastic level of surface details. It is a great online racing experience, much better than any console game, witch respect most of the alea you have to deal with in real life and the physic is as good as it gets for Sim racing.