Is anybody thinking about making the switch

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HPT
I've spoken to a lot of people around who have now got GT5, and they are quite disappointed with it - It's fair to say I am a little, and I've been suggesting Forza as an alternative. I only have a 720p xbox, but I have to say I am considering getting a new 1080 one and going over to the dark side. Anyone else feeling this?

Come on over. It's not like you're gonna get shot! Finances dictate I stay with the 360 & FM3 for the near future. And having fun with it. Anyone up for a race series? I might be able to do one end of Jan or early Feb. With many of the LMP cars that FM3 has. A lot of them in the R1/930-940PI range.

Shout out to the mods to make sure it's okay? Would I put the thread here or over in the race series section?
 
I have been thinking about getting an Xbox360 even before GT5 was released. The only thing that kept me from doing so was that many 360's broke after a while and I don't have an 360 compatible wheel. I already bought the G27 and not the Fanatec wheel.
I'm also interested in the Thrustmaster T500RS and this wheel is, AFAIK, not compatible with the Xbox.

Bottom line, I'm still thinking about it. :D
 
I own an xbox 360 and a ps3 and forza 3 and gt5. both definatly have their good and bad.

Graphics: the right car with the right track in GT5 and the realism bombs forza with it's arcadey cartoon like graphics. but at the same time, if you grab a standard car and a standard looking track and it's just GT4 on PS2 all over again. forza is more consistant, though not all cars in forza have a full animated cockpit, the v8 supercars dash is just blank. but atleast there is a cockpit for all cars.

Sound: not many do like the mountains of jazz in GT5, some music in the game is cool like 5oul on D!splay and that my chemical romance song.. etc etc.. but more importantly are the engine sounds.. some are good in GT5.. alot are not very accurate.. and some are quite retarded.. eg.. get an old v8 corvette, put on a race exhaust and the engine note switches to a hotted up 4 cylinder sound..that's just wrong. forza engine sounds are pretty great 95%, with a few sounds that arn't right.

Gameplay: physics in GT5 are awesome. forza feels fine but not on GT5 level. but the clutch in forza 3 is cool and fun. wish gt5 had that. car customization is ok in GT5. forza 3 is alot more fun in that department. wheels, bodykits, stickers, etc.

Damage: gt5 they need to make the damage appear quicker.. if you spend enough time crashing up a race car or a premium car.. it's actually really cool looking.. better than forza 3 where the car just looks burned all of a sudden.. though atleast damage is instant and consistant for forza 3.

Presentation: I actually find GT5's menu's to be great and the easiest of the series to navigate. very simple and clean. forza 3 menu's are boring looking.. mostly white.. and all the races are little squares.. no flair. lol.

which game is better? it's actually a pretty tough question.. one of the reasons I own both games is because honestly they both do some impressive stuff.. I'm really looking forward to what Forza 4 does.. it might blow us away?.. and then GT6 might blow us even further (haha) .. I'm gonna call it a draw.
 
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I think i like forza better. in fact there are only 2 things i think are better in GT5 then forza.

#1 - The menus, especially for the race selection. THe little boxes when choosing specific races is terrible on forza

#2 - The used cars section is awesome on GT5. I love the fact that i have to search/wait for cars I want. In forza you can have every car you want in no time. in gt5, it could be forever before you get it.

The bad thing about the used car section, it could be forever before you get the car you want...hence people resorting the birthday glitch.

i think that everything else in forza is better.
The AH, painting, decals, body upgrades, and especially the feel of the racing
 
:banghead: Ugh, I guess what I wrote went over you head. YES, the 360 can output 1080p - but NOT natively. When set to 1080p, what you are seeing on your TV is an upscaled 720p image. Just the same as with an upscaling DVD player set to 1080p, your TV will register a 1080p signal, but it is not TRUE 1080p - it is UPSCALED, ala, NOT 1:1 pixel mapping. Because of this, every game on the 360 that says it supports 1080p on the back is actually using false marketing because it's really just 720p.

The PS3, on the other hand, is capable of outputing 1080p NATIVELY (true 1:1 mapping), and that's the difference. While most games still have a native resolution of 720p (just like on the 360), the ones that support 1080p (metal gear solid 4, GT5, etc.), are being displayed in TRUE 1080p natively and NOT through upscaling. Hopefully, this makes it easier for you to understand. 👍

Wrong, and as said Virtua Tennis is 1920x1080 1-1 pixel.

What the fool on youtube is showing you is that the 360 dashboard is 720p only. So its not good for showing 1920x1080 size pics but that's all. Games like VT3 are 100% 1 to 1 1920x1080 in pixels on 360.
 
you said right there: "all gt5 has going for it is the driving".....to me....that is the make or break for a game.....the driving in gt5 is is unparallel....it feels so natural.... just like the real thing. each car that ive driven irl handles just like it in the game. dont get me wrong...im HUGE on modding cars(i have a supratt IRL and love modding it)....but if the cars in forza dont even handle like their real life counter parts(all same drive train classes handles the same wtf)then that is where it counts the most......the driving. sure its nice to have a nice looking car in a race....but who gives a **** if it handles just like the next rwd car.

gt5 is the best console sim hands down....that seems to be a turn off for ppl who just wants to get into a game without putting any real effort into learning how to drive.....gt5 has a steep learing curve(if you actually drive like your suppose to and not play the game like a destruction derby)...it can be VERY rewarding the sensation you get when youve knocked a whole second off your last lap and youre in the zone....no other driving game jas given me that feeling except for the gt series.....it is hands down the best sim racer out there....and again...that might not be for everyone...so to each his own

I can say I'm good at driving in gt5, yet I had far much more fun with FM2. It just is a better game. What difference does it make whether the driving is so good when you're forced to do boring races and repeat them multiple times? You can't even drive the car you want without grinding or waiting for it in the used car dealership if it's a standard.
Actually the biggest let down for me in gt5 is the sound. I remember FM2's sound was a blast. Modding a car made much more difference than just adding a japanese car note in the exhaust.
 
I have switched, I was not keen on FM3 online - they ruined it - I preferred FM2 way of doing it! Am a GT5 fanman now (only had it 2 days but it's not bad)!
 
GT5 content wise is just really shallow, you'll finish all the licenses (which don't mean anything anymore) and most of the special events in the first week

once you reach level 20 or so the offline mode simply falls apart tho, you'll find special events that you just can't beat or don't want to put the effort into beating, and you'll find leveling up and getting credits to be a huge chore

the course maker and photo mode are interesting but don't really keep your attention, car customization is necessary for some events but otherwise not something that pulls you back

so what keeps people coming back to GT5 is really the driving model, which is great if you have a wheel

if you don't have a wheel tho, it's really nothing special

Forza 3 on the other hand has a lot more content-wise, the variety isn't there like GT5 but what you do get you'll get a lot more of (at least offline wise)

what hooks you in Forza 3 is buying cars and customizing them, and the ease of getting into races, and there's a real satisfying sense of progression

on the downside the driving doesn't hook you like using a wheel in GT5 tho, if you haven't played GT5 with a wheel yet then this won't matter to you, but if you have played GT5 with a wheel then you're spoiled and no amount of painting will change your mind

online wise GT5 has more options but i find myself getting kicked from games more, which was something Forza 2 suffered from as well

the perfect console racing sim for me would be Forza 3 with GT5's driving model and wheels support, or GT5 with a ton more content

my problem now is that i have a harder time enjoying both, having played the hell out of both the last 3 weeks

my advice would be to just dive into one or the other and forget the other exists or else you'll never be happy
 
GT5's single player is too short and FM3's is too long!

I'd say 30-50 hours is perfect for single play sim racing and then tackle the online where the race really starts.
 
GT5 content wise is just really shallow, you'll finish all the licenses (which don't mean anything anymore) and most of the special events in the first week

once you reach level 20 or so the offline mode simply falls apart tho, you'll find special events that you just can't beat or don't want to put the effort into beating, and you'll find leveling up and getting credits to be a huge chore

the course maker and photo mode are interesting but don't really keep your attention, car customization is necessary for some events but otherwise not something that pulls you back

so what keeps people coming back to GT5 is really the driving model, which is great if you have a wheel

if you don't have a wheel tho, it's really nothing special

Forza 3 on the other hand has a lot more content-wise, the variety isn't there like GT5 but what you do get you'll get a lot more of (at least offline wise)

what hooks you in Forza 3 is buying cars and customizing them, and the ease of getting into races, and there's a real satisfying sense of progression

on the downside the driving doesn't hook you like using a wheel in GT5 tho, if you haven't played GT5 with a wheel yet then this won't matter to you, but if you have played GT5 with a wheel then you're spoiled and no amount of painting will change your mind

online wise GT5 has more options but i find myself getting kicked from games more, which was something Forza 2 suffered from as well

the perfect console racing sim for me would be Forza 3 with GT5's driving model and wheels support, or GT5 with a ton more content

my problem now is that i have a harder time enjoying both, having played the hell out of both the last 3 weeks

my advice would be to just dive into one or the other and forget the other exists or else you'll never be happy


I agree with most of this, but they can co exist for me lol. I don't have a wheel for GT5 and probably wont invest in one any time soon. I am looking forward to and hoping PD gives us more meat for offline play because right now its not really grabbing me. I still enjoy buying a random car on Forza and seeing what I can turn it into.

I will say this about not owning a wheel, I don't care what magic tricks are going on behind the scenes in FM3 but that game feels so darn good with the Xbox controller.
 
Driving a racing sim with a controller is like turning all the assists on. It uses a buffer to steer the car rather than the actual movement of the sticks. At least with a wheel it does whatever you tell it to, good or bad.
 
Driving a racing sim with a controller is like turning all the assists on. It uses a buffer to steer the car rather than the actual movement of the sticks. At least with a wheel it does whatever you tell it to, good or bad.

Doesn't matter man, if you think the millions of sales of gt5 are wheel users you are wrong this website does not represent the majority of GT5 or FM players this is the minority and most vocal. All console games should be accessible with and fun with a controller, you shouldn't have to be a hardcore living room racer to play either game.

You can preach about "real simulation" all you want but in the end its a video game and as far as video games trying to simulate racing its not the best for many reasons. From what I have seen iracing is touted as the best racing simulator that is not a full actual simulation machine. I am not a hardcore video game racer with a wheel, chair and all the other hardware but I do love cars and play many different racing games and seeing comments like this would make me think GT5 fans have some elite complex about playing a video game. I like GT 1-3 and I also had friends that were casual gamers that played it because the cars in the game were pretty cool. They would put in just enough effort to bronze the license tests to play the tracks they wanted to play to buy the cars they wanted to buy. Times and games have moved forward, gaming is bigger than it has ever been and the audience is wider than it was before and right now I have a feeling a casual person would rather FM over GT5. Casual sale may not be a hardcore sale but still a sale.

So all the GT fan comments I have seen here and other places where they turn their nose up at accessibility options like rewind and etc makes me wonder how long GT will survive on name alone without trying to evolve. Yes GT5 will sell big numbers and the series has sold BIG numbers yet many people are very disappointed with GT5.
 
Driving a racing sim with a controller is like turning all the assists on. It uses a buffer to steer the car rather than the actual movement of the sticks. At least with a wheel it does whatever you tell it to, good or bad.

Hate to burst your bubble mate, but I've been racing Formula Ford for the past 3 years and in my humble opinion, sims (even iRacing) are nothing like driving a car. It's not just me though, a lot of friends that race higher powered cars have come to the same conclusion.

It matters little how many physics related calculations a sim performs per second or how good the physics engine is. Unless you are sitting in a real car, on a real track, with real feedback, the quality of the physics is irrelevant.

At best, sims have helped me remember a few tracks, and honestly, even the F1 Team Simulators are only used for the same reason.

That's why I don't care if Forza auto-corrects steering, or if I'm at a mates house who doesn't have a steering wheel or if the physics in F1 2010 are nothing like what an open wheel car feels like.

I'd love to see some of the "sim-elitists" among us miss their braking marker at turn 1, at over 230km in real lifeand see how well your GT5 experience has prepared you.

Unless you a in a real car, its a game, always will be. Treat it accordingly.
 
Hate to burst your bubble mate, but I've been racing Formula Ford for the past 3 years and in my humble opinion, sims (even iRacing) are nothing like driving a car. It's not just me though, a lot of friends that race higher powered cars have come to the same conclusion.

Agreed, these sims are nothing like real life racing.
 
video games and real life?!? Wow what did I miss here? lol Come on a sim game will always be a sim game, never ever compare to real life racing for God sakes. It simulates how the cars look in real life but it will never simulate how a real car reacts on track, PERIOD!
 
Hate to burst your bubble mate, but I've been racing Formula Ford for the past 3 years and in my humble opinion, sims (even iRacing) are nothing like driving a car. It's not just me though, a lot of friends that race higher powered cars have come to the same conclusion.

It matters little how many physics related calculations a sim performs per second or how good the physics engine is. Unless you are sitting in a real car, on a real track, with real feedback, the quality of the physics is irrelevant.

At best, sims have helped me remember a few tracks, and honestly, even the F1 Team Simulators are only used for the same reason.

That's why I don't care if Forza auto-corrects steering, or if I'm at a mates house who doesn't have a steering wheel or if the physics in F1 2010 are nothing like what an open wheel car feels like.

I'd love to see some of the "sim-elitists" among us miss their braking marker at turn 1, at over 230km in real lifeand see how well your GT5 experience has prepared you.

Unless you a in a real car, its a game, always will be. Treat it accordingly.

video games and real life?!? Wow what did I miss here? lol Come on a sim game will always be a sim game, never ever compare to real life racing for God sakes. It simulates how the cars look in real life but it will never simulate how a real car reacts on track, PERIOD!

While I quite agree that no racing sim will ever match the real thing, the forces at work and the sheer number of variables involved are impossible to fully recreate.

However to move to the complete opposite end of the spectrum and imply that no correlation at all exist is just as inaccurate as saying a sim can be perfect.

In particular this bit....

It simulates how the cars look in real life but it will never simulate how a real car reacts on track, PERIOD!

...you may want to look up what the word simulates means, because its perfectly possible for a game to simulate how a car reacts with a track. Its however far more difficult for it to replicate it to 100% accuracy, and there-in lies the difference.

Its all a matter of degrees, even the likes of PGR and Burnout 'simulate' how a car acts, they just do it at a very low level, they are still however bound by a rough set of 'laws' that govern how the car, tyres, etc react. That the do it at a very base level does not change the fact that the word simulate can still be applied to it.

As you move up the 'food-chain' of what are known as sims, then the level of accuracy and the number of variables in the simulation increases and it gets more accurate, its simply that it can never achieve 100% accuracy, because that would be an exact 1:1 model with reality.

To give a little context to what I am saying here (and a number of people will be aware of this) I have a background in the motor industry, I have taught driver skills to both dealership staff and customers, I've delivered vehicle dynamics training and managed the product launch training for over two dozen different models. I currently act as a training consultant to the motor industry in the UK and Europe.

The argument being put forward that a sim is effectively so far from reality as to be useless flies in the face of what I have personally experienced.

Yes sane boundaries have to be drawn, but a correlation and use for simulation does exists and is used. Now while at a level beyond what is available for 'home use', manufactures have used simulators for a wide variety of applications during the design and set-up processes of a new cars development. No it can't ever 100% replicate the need for the real thing, but it does help out one hell of a lot.

So while I agree with your point to a degree, I feel you are both in danger of going far to far the other way.

Sims most definitely do replicate the actions of a car, they just don't do it with 100% accuracy and that accuracy will vary from title to title.

Now what degree is 'right' and should be aimed for is another discussion entirely.


Scaff
 
No Scaff I do agree with you, unfortunately that's the only word that you can describe as it is, both is simulation. I mean look at the Red Bull simulation F1, which is thousands and thousands of dollars yes it does simulate perfectly you are right. I might have used the wrong word but I don't think there is another word that we can use it, is there? Also just in case I am from Brazil so please please english isn't my first language!

Sim real or sim arcade maybe?

What about sim virtual racing?
 
No Scaff I do agree with you, unfortunately that's the only word that you can describe as it is, both is simulation. I mean look at the Red Bull simulation F1, which is thousands and thousands of dollars yes it does simulate perfectly you are right. I might have used the wrong word but I don't think there is another word that we can use it, is there? Also just in case I am from Brazil so please please english isn't my first language!

Sim real or sim arcade maybe?

What about sim virtual racing?

Don't get me wrong its a difficult thing to define, after all everything from Burnout to a 7-post shaker rig are all 'simulators'.

None of them are 100% accurate, but all exist on a sliding scale of simulation accuracy.

More info on 7-post shaker rigs - http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ftpw006.html

These things are mad and about the closest you will ever get to a 100% accurate sim, even if the 'interactivity' is limited, its does still 'simulate' the reaction of a car and road using computer models and software. Its the very extreme end of what we are talking about here.


Regards

Scaff
 
Wow that was some posting Scaff, I was just talking about using a controller lol. I was literally laughing in a fun way, but you got deep with it.
 
I'm just waiting for the day when it doesn't feel like your real-world skills are being put down, just because you prefer one of these sims to another. A big, international star needs to say these things are never going to get close, so be happy with which interpretation you prefer. It does feel like being an underdog preferring Forza and that's across the whole internet, not just here.
 
Make a switch? So i can't like forza3 and GT5 at the same time? I'm sorry but i don't give a damn about console wars, Both game happen to center around cars, i love cars, So there for i love them. But, i just happen to like GT more, even after all these years i am still only warming up to the forza franchise. it's fun, and the physics are great, but it just really does not do it for me in terms of replay values in my opinion,Yes i love to drive,tune, create every single replica livery i find with the cars, but thats it And that is good enough for me, But it just does not entice me as much as GT series does. And for that i have alot of reasons, but i'm not going to get into that, Do i like both series? yes, do i like one more then the other?, yes, and that is perfectly ok with me.
 
The argument being put forward that a sim is effectively so far from reality as to be useless flies in the face of what I have personally experienced.

Scaff

I understand where you are coming from. My main contention however, is that no matter how realistic physics get, control of the game will still be lacking.

Say you test the physics engine parameters of a game. Input A command, B happens. Turn 32 degrees under heavy breaking, Z happens. If all the parameters match a real car 100%, what's the point? Your not in a real car, so why should your data match that of a real car?

Take oversteer for example. In a real car, you can almost predict when it's coming and counter-steer accordingly. In a game however, it never feels quite so intuitive.
 

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