- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Is camber fixed? Discuss it here.
- Thread starter Johnnypenso
- 698 comments
- 49,240 views
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
I have driven Yellowbird ( CM ) replica, Diablo SV-R / GTR ( SS / RH ) replica and Nissan GTR Nismo ( CS ) replica on 1.16 ( drove them at Laguna Seca, Spa, Tsukuba and Mid Field ), and so far, camber is the same as before 1.15. All of them on the same setup and tire ( didn't do any changes ).
- 46
- United States
- AAO_Toyota_Inc
All my cars are the same aswell. Soo much forced understeer on g27.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
I thought it was a huge **** up when I first read about camber not working in gt6, but over a year later and it still isn't fixed... It's things like this that make me worry about the future of Gran Turismo. If PD can't make camber do anything other than take grip away from the tyre, they should really re-evaluate their staff's skills.
They raved about their collaborations with Yokohama and KW for the tyre and suspension models respectively, and yet somehow that has resulted in tyre and suspension models that are no better, and in certain cases (ride height, camber) much worse, than their previous game!
I'll be honest. I bought gt6 mainly for the promised course creator, thinking "in a few months I'll be able to make awesome tracks, and it'll be the best console sim ever!". When I found out camber didn't work, I thought "wow, that's a pretty big mistake to make. Oh well, they'll fix that quick smart" How wrong was I?!? lol.
Epic facepalm pd....
They raved about their collaborations with Yokohama and KW for the tyre and suspension models respectively, and yet somehow that has resulted in tyre and suspension models that are no better, and in certain cases (ride height, camber) much worse, than their previous game!
I'll be honest. I bought gt6 mainly for the promised course creator, thinking "in a few months I'll be able to make awesome tracks, and it'll be the best console sim ever!". When I found out camber didn't work, I thought "wow, that's a pretty big mistake to make. Oh well, they'll fix that quick smart" How wrong was I?!? lol.
Epic facepalm pd....
- 206
- Notodden/Norway
- rolandvg99
I'm a little confused about this camber thing, but my FF Renaults corner at about 2-3 km/h faster with front camber set at 1 rather than zero. Tested using SH tyres on Midway in the long left hander between tunnels.
Edit: I'm running at 450 pp and 1200 kg on most of my FF Renaults online. Clio R.S. Throphy '11 is the fastest through corners, but launches badly from standing starts. Clio runs mid 1.21 and Meganes run low 1.22 laps. No aids and ABS off.
Edit: I'm running at 450 pp and 1200 kg on most of my FF Renaults online. Clio R.S. Throphy '11 is the fastest through corners, but launches badly from standing starts. Clio runs mid 1.21 and Meganes run low 1.22 laps. No aids and ABS off.
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- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If you go through this thread and look at the Motec Data Analysis, camber has been seen to improve peak cornering speeds in various tests, usually by 1-2km/h. However, just going by the data, most of the time there are no gains in ultimate lap times because the cars with zero camber seem to have higher top speeds at the end of the straights to make up for their lower cornering speeds. What all this means is subject to debate but it seems to be somewhat of a pattern. Here is one example.
Links to all the test results are in the first post for your convenience.
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
That's the biggest fail on PD's part right there imo. They work with specialists in each area and they still can't get it right.
I really have my doubts on PD ever getting the tuning aspect of this game right. It really makes them look like a bunch of monkeys. What is even more funny about the whole thing is, back in GT5 they eventually came out with a patch in an attempt to fix the ride height programing error, which was also an admission that they got it wrong in the first place. They then turn right around and make the same mistake in GT6.
Which, you guessed it, still remains uncorrected. I really wish I could tune according to the real world, but since PD can't seem to get their head out, I guess I'm just going to have to wait for another game to come out. 
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
That's the biggest fail on PD's part right there imo. They work with specialists in each area and they still can't get it right.
I really have my doubts on PD ever getting the tuning aspect of this game right. It really makes them look like a bunch of monkeys. What is even more funny about the whole thing is, back in GT5 they eventually came out with a patch in an attempt to fix the ride height programing error, which was also an admission that they got it wrong in the first place. They then turn right around and make the same mistake in GT6.
I have had faith in them for a long time, only to have it crushed. Gt4 was one of my favourite games ever, and I thought it was a great sequel to gt3. I had high hopes for 5, knowing the ps3 would be capable of a much bigger game than gt4. What I got was years of delays, so I thought "they are delaying it because they are perfectionists, the game will be so unbelievably good when it comes out". Then when it did come out, it was severely underwhelming, and apart from the graphics, it was a massive step backwards from gt4. I kept my faith, thinking perhaps they were too ambitious, and they lost sight of the importance of the core game because of all the other stuff they were trying to bring into it. "they'll go back to their roots in gt6, it will be a more polished experience all over". How wrong was I? Another step backwards!
Essentially, gt6 is a worse game than gt2, apart from it's graphics of course. Yes the physics are better, but most of them don't work properly anyway, so it's not a lot better than gt2. The thing that isn't better though is the gameplay. Gt just doesn't have that fun factor anymore.
It's got a lot of cars, but why should we sacrifice physics, ai, and fun gameplay for car collecting? is it a racing sim or pokemon?
On any track where camber clearly increases peak cornering speeds overall in corners and there is no long straights, it would make sense that camber will give a lap time advantage. Additionally, you may like to optimise camber for bends where exit speed is critical to lap speed.
It's been clearly demonstrated that this is not what happens...
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
You would think that would be the case, but it doesn't appear that way in the testing done in this thread for the most part. Peak terminal speeds are higher without camber, negating the peak cornering speeds produced by camber. Perhaps it's because zero camber lets you get on the throttle slightly sooner, or maybe zero camber affects top speed. Either way, the cornering advantage disappeared at the end of the straight in just about every case.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 2,643
- Finland
- OdeFinn
@CSLACR, @Johnnypenso, point not taken..
If top driver knows how to tune car with a camber then he will use it too, but seems like there is only shortcut tuners on top of leader board.
Tuning 0-camber car is freaking easy, but what comes to tuning with camber then comes problems what top drivers doesn't seem to handle.
If top driver knows how to tune car with a camber then he will use it too, but seems like there is only shortcut tuners on top of leader board.
Tuning 0-camber car is freaking easy, but what comes to tuning with camber then comes problems what top drivers doesn't seem to handle.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Remember, it was "0 camber: any car, any tyre, any track" and "0 camber: max grip. Any camber just reduces grip" until evidence got in the way of a good story. No actually, for a while evidence didn't seem to matter until it was shown 0 camber unanimously to be wrong in testing at high speed ring.
I only promote using values to maximise lap speed and evidence based tuning theory.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
High Speed Ring is not a "normal" racing track, either in the game or in real life. It's entirely possible that it's the exception and not the rule and that is not entirely inconsistent with findings here which show higher cornering speeds but equal lap times in many cases with camber vs. no camber testing. On a track which has very long, fast and banked corners unlike any other track in the game, it's not entirely inconceivable that this slight cornering advantage found in the short tight corners of some race tracks from added camber plays out differently on this somewhat unique track. HSR testing alone is not enough to definitively conclude that camber works in all situations.
Only further, very thorough testing on a tighter, twistier track, can begin to paint the overall picture around using camber.
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- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
So far every time I've tried it out, 0.0 camber drove significantly faster. I'm always open to trying it again and have been testing it this past week, but so far I haven't found this "unanimous vote" worthy speed from camber, nor anything close to that.
Maybe I will find it on a different or particular track or car, who knows.
- 1,233
- Patra
- Rotorist
I hope the guys here read well and get inside their minds that camber isn't only about ultimate laptimes. Camber's usability provides tires to make better contact (more surface placed opposite) to the tarmac, gravel or curb ONLY when cornering. This helps in predictability in car's behaviour, stability in late braking and mid-corner and better spreaded wear in tire width. Camber 0 helps in circuits without much camber in corners (fuji, monza, motegi, etc) to reach ultimate braking distance before turning and earlier acceleration out of corners. Thing is that data from GT6, proves that in most corners, lowest speed is more or less better when camber is applied. So, this is the only thing we need to know to be sure it works properly. Selection of using is free, just reminding.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Midfield and Midfield Reverse are both good place to see some camber
- 8,381
- The Black Lodge
There's no need for a vote as there is no opinion involved; either it works properly or it doesn't.
That there's 21 pages of discussion says enough already. If camber is working properly, you should be able to produce similar results using similar values as real life or other games. The fact that you can't also says enough. The fact that you can in other games also says enough.
That there's 21 pages of discussion says enough already. If camber is working properly, you should be able to produce similar results using similar values as real life or other games. The fact that you can't also says enough. The fact that you can in other games also says enough.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
GT6 Yellow Bird replica that I built vs Assetto Corsa Yellow Bird, both driven by Lewis_Hamilton_ , and GT6 YB has camber and actually closer to realistic grip when camber is used.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Closer than what?
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Than with less camber, I have built so many replica that aimed to replicate real life lap, including cornering speed, braking point, line and pacing, the YB built was aimed at Tsukuba 1:06.12 lap record ( S tires ). Another YB did 1:08s at Tsukuba back in the early 90's ( I have the video - a race against F40 on street tires ) and CM tire with camber still has too much grip compared to the lap, I had to drop to CH for 1:08.35 lap ( still with camber ) CM is capable of 1:05.8xx at Tsukuba.
For the YB in GT6, CM is close to 80's S tire ( semi slick ), and similar to Assetto Corsa YB 90's tire or lowest grip one ( I think that's what Lewis used on the video )
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