Is the E-brake like in real life?

[madmax 2006]

Just a quick question.

Is pulling the E-brake in GT4 the same as real life? Because when I hit it, it just grabs and I can't accelerate for a few seconds...

 

[The Porko]

Its nothing like hitting a handbrake in real life... unfortantly.

 

[kennythebomb]

I'm no expert on this but as soon as you release it the car should behave like normal, and like you said in GT4 they seem to lag for a while.

 

[Gabkicks]

simple answer= hell now

 

[JTSnooks]

Depends...how quick are you with your handbrake in real life?

 

[Slick6]

I can't imagine PD testing every real life car to get the hand brake right. If they did I surely wouldn't lend them my car to test.

 

[sideslider]

I can't imagine PD testing every real life car to get the hand brake right. If they did I surely wouldn't lend them my car to test.

I can understand them not testing every e-brake system, but come on have they ever even used an e-brake. 👎

The only car that I've driven IRL that is comparable to the e-brake in gt4 is a 2001 kia rio, when you pull the e-brake then hit the gas (in whatever order) the car revs high for a second untill the automatic transmission actually engages. So I guess if you want simulation e-braking take out the hyundai to your perfered track, equip auto tranny and no upgrades and let it rip. I have a friend that has a hyundai like the one in gt4 (it might actually be the same model) and even though I've never pulled the e-brake the accelleration is more responsive than the kia i drove, But thats the closest match I can think of.

If this is the case I might even be convenced that in gt4 most stock cars e-brake/accell system are poor, but shouldn't that change with certain engine and/or tranny upgrades? 💡

 

[Sven]

The only real difference between the GT4 and real e-brakes that I can tell is that the GT4 e-brake is digital (on/off only), whereas real e-brakes are analog.

GT4 puts the car in neutral when you hit the e-brake, bringing the RPMs down to idle speed. It also keeps it in the same gear. So when you try accelarating again, the game does its rev-matching thing, which causes some lag. And if you've slowed down a lot, you'll be in the wrong gear...

Not that I claim to be an e-brake expert, that's just what I think.

 

[blargonator]

hahahaha they are nothing like the real thing......atleast in most cars.
i have bad experiences with just using the hand brake. my dad was leaning into my engine bay and all the sudden the car started rolling back, obviously i hop in and stomp on the brake.....but it also happened to be at the same time when the car rolled onto his foot <8- (

 

[Kylehnat]

The game e-brake locks the rear brakes. This is useful in rallies, so despite the fact it behaves nothing like a real life emergency brake, it's good that it's in the game.

 

[JTSnooks]

Umm...real-life e-brakes lock the rear brakes too. And actually, you can rev the engine while holding the e-brake in the game. In real life though, if driving a manual you'd better make sure you hit the clutch at the same time as the e-brake or you'll stall your engine (assuming your car's RWD). Maybe the game is somewhat making up for the probable lag between when you let off the e-brake and clutch and get back on the gas? I never use it in the game, but that's more because of the horrible way the car reacts with it (front tire friction simulation problems) rather than the e-brake itself.

 

[Uncle Harry]

Why do the Americans call it an emergency Brake?
The hand brake is primarilly used to stop the car rolling when parked.
Usually cable operated on the rear brakes which can be used to lock the rear wheels and get the car to spin. Useful in Rally cars.
They are not very effective in stoping a car from high speed due to the low mechanical advantage used in the lever mechanisms used in there design.
Applying them is more like a on / off situation and not analouge as some one else stated.
What I mean is that applying 10 degrees of movement will not do anything and then a futher 2 degrees of movement will lock the brakes.
Also when applied in real life it does not put the car into neutral.

 

[niky]

You can actually PARTIALLY activate the handbrake, but it won't do much of anything. Since the only reason to use the handbrake is for rally, they just simulated the effect of a full-handbrake pull (got to test that out later).

And yes, GT4 engages the clutch when you pull the handbrake. A case of life imitating video games? The Mazda6 MPS AWD disengages drive to the rear wheels if you pull the handbrake!

 

[xcsti]

They are not very effective in stoping a car from high speed due to the low mechanical advantage used in the lever mechanisms used in there design.

They aren't affective because they lock up the rears and do nothing to the front. [high school physics] The coefficient of friction is greater when the contact between the two objects is static rather than sliding. [/high school physics] Basically that means that it takes more force to overcome the friction of an object at rest than to move one the same amount when it has already been moved. This applies to cars as the friction is greater when the wheels have traction and are not spinning at a rate different then that of the surface the are in contact with.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

In manual, are you able to pull the e-brake to slow down, shift down to the right gear, and drive away again without the lag? I've always wondered, but unfortuantly i'm a slave to automatic.

 

[sideslider]

Why do the Americans call it an emergency Brake?

because thats what it says in most of the driver training manuals. and it's use for parking yes..but also taught as an emergency back up if your breaks fail..not too effective but a last resort sometimes...(yes i know there are other ways to stop a car in an emergency but thats why we call it e-brake)

 

[Uncle Harry]

They aren't affective because they lock up the rears and do nothing to the front. [high school physics] The coefficient of friction is greater when the contact between the two objects is static rather than sliding. [/high school physics] Basically that means that it takes more force to overcome the friction of an object at rest than to move one the same amount when it has already been moved. This applies to cars as the friction is greater when the wheels have traction and are not spinning at a rate different then that of the surface the are in contact with.

You need a mechanical device to apply the force. The poor design of these items in standard road cars is what makes the wheels lock up.

I understand why a locked wheel takes longer to stop than a rotating wheel and I dont need a high school physics lecture.
You should read more carefully as I did say they only work on the back as well.

What do you think causes the wheels to lock up?

It is the mechanical device that is used to apply the braking force.
Which has a low mechanical advantage. Which is what I said earlier.
Which is why I asked why are they called emergency brakes.( They do not work to well in an emergency).

 

[Alfaholic]

At first I believed the e-brake was way underdone in GT4 and that it was more accurate in GT3. I felt that the car did not react as swiftly or as violently as I would expect. Now I think that it probably does give a reasonably accurate reaction, and it just feels slow because you're less busy in GT4 than you would be in a proper car.

As for being in neutral, I was always taught, even in FWD, to disengage the clutch when performing hand brake turns, so the fact that GT4 dumps into freewheel mode feels pretty normal to me.

so now I would say that the GT4 e-brake is reasonably accurate.

Also, in my opinion, handbrake is no more accurate as a general term for a parking brake than emergency brake, since many modern cars are equipped with fly-off or foot operated secondary / parking / whatever brakes.

Also, the handbrake doesn't always operate on the rear wheels..... try a handbrake turn in an Alfasud!

 

[Verbal]

They aren't affective because they lock up the rears and do nothing to the front. [high school physics] The coefficient of friction is greater when the contact between the two objects is static rather than sliding. [/high school physics]

Well, tyres are a little more complicated than high school physics. Depending on the tire you'll get max longitudinal force at around 10-20% slip (i.e. when going 100 the tyre is only turning as fast as it would if it were rolling freely at 80). When fully locked, you'll only lose about 10% force out of the tyre, main problem with a locked tyre is that it won't transmit lateral forces. With locked fronts you can't steer, with locked rears you're likely to spin.
Braking the rears only is also no good idea because usually at least half of a car's weight is on the front tyres. During braking, even more load is shifted to the front. As the braking force the tire can transmit depends on the wheel load, the lion's share of a vehicle's braking power therefore is at the front wheels.
But the number one and nearly sole reason the handbrake is useless for stopping a car is because it's so weak. On a dry road at speed, you can pull that lever like a maniac with most road cars ( hydraulic handbrakes on rally cars are a whole other ballgame), and barely notice any effect at all. These are meant to arrest the car when parking, nothing more.

because thats what it says in most of the driver training manuals. and it's use for parking yes..but also taught as an emergency back up if your breaks fail..not too effective but a last resort sometimes...(yes i know there are other ways to stop a car in an emergency but thats why we call it e-brake)

Total brake failure is a highly unlikely scenario with dual circuit braking systems (which have been around for several decades now).

 

[~Sp33~]

The cars dont react sharply at all, especially in flip flop sections of tracks, where you expect the car transfer its weight abruptly causing flaws in the handling of poorly tuned cars. But GT4 lacks this ( along with most of the gran turismo series). 1 was probably the best with its snappy steering. The reason im saying this here, is that i think that the E-brake doesnt feel as abrupt as it would be in real life. Instead its too much of a gradual thing to be of any use IMO.

 

[yeti]

The real problem here is that a Handbrake or E-brake doesn't lock the tyres on a car instantly...

Try driving down the motorway at 70MPH and pull on the handbrake... the amount of movement on the tyres compared to the ability of the brakes won't get anywhere near being able to lock them up and therefore you don't notice a great deal of anything except for some light braking...

The handbrake only tends to lock wheels when you are at lower speeds and this will cause the lack of grip...

The problem is a lot of old skool racing games (and GT1 is guilty of this) think that a handbrake locks a wheel instantly... and we've all grown up with this before we even got in a real life car and decided to yank the handbrake...

C.

 

[Alfaholic]

Try driving down the motorway at 70MPH and pull on the handbrake...

.... or rather, don't try it!

Unless, of course, you want to test the response time of the nearest ambulance, because, when you do manage to lock up both rear wheels at 70MPH on the motorway, you're going to have a faceful of armco, or concrete, or oncoming traffic, or all three, faster than you can say "yeti was talking cr*p".

I find it a tad irresponsible to suggest that there is no road car on the planet with a handbrake strong enough to lock the rear wheels if tugged sharply enough or hard enough, at 70mph, and then tell people to go an try it on a high speed public road and not to worry because "nothing will happen".

 

[Dr_Watson]

.
Which is why I asked why are they called emergency brakes.( They do not work to well in an emergency).

when i was a kid it was most certainly called the parking brake.
and it was a pedal on the floor with a seperate brake release lever. (some cars still have these)
I'm assuming the automatic transmission changed the name, as its not needed in an AT for parking.
so "parking brake" became "emergency brake", not handbrake, because they still aren't all hand operated.
and the word "emergency" doesn't mean that its there for panic stops or accident avoidence situations.
it releates to that being a mechanical brake, so in the event that your normal hydrolic brakes fail, it will still work.
and i have driven a car to the repair shop using nothing but the e-brake to stop the car... it does its job without lockups if its used properly.

 

[FoolKiller]

My only experience with the emergency/parking brake is in an empty parking lot in snow and ice. A good yank on the wheel and a jerk on the brake and the car goes spinning. It sounds like stupid, childish fun but it was advised by my driver's ed instructor for learning how to control spins. It probably saved me at least once on an icy turn.

Anyway, I tried this on the snow tracks and the effect doesn't seem the same. It could be a number of other small differences but the effect wasn't close.

I know others who have used the brake when their normal brakes were out and did fine without immediately locking the rear tires at every turn, which is how the game tends to behave.

 

[FooAtari]

The real problem here is that a Handbrake or E-brake doesn't lock the tyres on a car instantly...

Try driving down the motorway at 70MPH and pull on the handbrake... the amount of movement on the tyres compared to the ability of the brakes won't get anywhere near being able to lock them up and therefore you don't notice a great deal of anything except for some light braking...

The handbrake only tends to lock wheels when you are at lower speeds and this will cause the lack of grip...

The problem is a lot of old skool racing games (and GT1 is guilty of this) think that a handbrake locks a wheel instantly... and we've all grown up with this before we even got in a real life car and decided to yank the handbrake...

C.

dude if you have a handbrake that works properly and you give it a good hard yank the wheels will lock up and you will be spinning down the road like a lunatic on your way to the nearest hospital or graveyard most likely!

Like Alfaholic, I hope no one is stupid enough to actually listen to that!

 

[doormeister]

I'm assuming the automatic transmission changed the name, as its not needed in an AT for parking.

Very wrong. The parking brake is designed to take the 'load' of a parked car off the motor mounts. Replacing motor mounts is just an unnecessary hassle and expense. Took my brother to straighten me out on that one. To use it properly: Stop, apply parking brake while still in 'Drive', then shift to 'Park'. If you shift into park before applying the brake, you defeat the whole purpose of using it.

 

[Mad Matt]

Perhaps this is a difference between the US and Europe because I've never driven a European car which had a handbrake I'd be afraid to pull at 70! I must admit to not having done it, but all the cars I've owned or driven have had a handbrake that's pretty ineffectual at stopping a car. A lot of them, like the Fiat Uno and My PT Cruiser struggle to keep the car from rolling away on a hill!

This comes from 17 years driving experience in almost every European country and the far east.

Also, I've never driven a car which hasn't had a centrally operated hand handbrake, although I think they did used to exist in the UK when my father was learning to drive.

So, back on topic, the handbrake in GT4 is nothing like any I've ever driven, but I'm willing to accept it might be like some in the US or on cars I haven't driven yet!

On the other hand, I haven’t used it in GT4, even on a rally, apart from to have a bit of fun.

(Please note that following Scaff's comments I want to make it clear that no-one should attempt to apply the handbrake at 70mph on a road, or indeed to apply the handbrake in a manor which doesn't fit with safe driving and the highway code!

I do stand by my comments that, of the cars I've owned and driven, the handbrake is not much use, especially on the older ones with drum brakes!)

 

[Scaff]

The real problem here is that a Handbrake or E-brake doesn't lock the tyres on a car instantly...

Try driving down the motorway at 70MPH and pull on the handbrake... the amount of movement on the tyres compared to the ability of the brakes won't get anywhere near being able to lock them up and therefore you don't notice a great deal of anything except for some light braking...

The handbrake only tends to lock wheels when you are at lower speeds and this will cause the lack of grip...

The problem is a lot of old skool racing games (and GT1 is guilty of this) think that a handbrake locks a wheel instantly... and we've all grown up with this before we even got in a real life car and decided to yank the handbrake...

C.

I have a Tiff Needel DVD called "Burning Rubber" which demonstrates how to do all manner of highly silly (and fun) things in a car on a closed road or airstrip. One of the things shown is a classic handbrake turn, it quite clearly (and in slow motion) shows the rear wheels of a Ford Puma being locked at 60 - 70 mph using the handbrake only.

I take no great pleasure in joing the other who have said that your comments on this are quite simply dangerous and irresponsiable. Even to suggest that someone should try to engage the handbrake on a car at speed on a public road is irresponsiable.

It would strike me that he senseable thing to do would be to edit your post to reflect the dangerous nature of your comments. Obviously this is only a suggestion, but I'm sure I would not be the only one to hope that you would see why I suggest this.

In regard to GT4 (and back on track) the handbrake is not well implemented in my opinion, its one if the areas that Enthusia scores points over GT4 in. I have a video around of do-nuts and handbrake turns in Enthusia, I will see if I can dig it out.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Gabkicks]

hey, our genepool needs some strenghtening so this might be a good thing.

 

[Scaff]

Here we go, Enthusia Donuts & Handbrakes turns, how GT4 should have been in this area.

http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=06CU3J9Y246732YN5IQSOV7UJT

Sorry for the quality, digital camera and all that.

Regards

Scaff

BTW car was doing about 60mph for the handbrake turns.