Is this game worth the grab

[oneloops]

Lap time comparison is always a poor measure of a Sims accuracy, too many variables are involved (track condition, temperature, humidity,etc) alongside the utter lack of fear you have in a sim.

Yes, I agree with you that they are never the same conditions/variables involved, but in this case I think that the National-Silverstone track for a Pro-driver there is near 0 fear factor in a hotlap with theese cars. It's a very safe section of the track IMO.

It can be a poor measure of comparison, but when a not pro-driver (like me) drives in AC with optimal surface setting, has long sliding during every corner, going out of the proper lines, loosing almost every apex, braking in long slides with not much control of the trajectory and, even then, at a so short track, I lap 2 seconds faster than the Pro-driver real life time ... That adds some more disparity between a pro-driver real lap time and a amateur-driver simulator lap time in my opinion.

If I choose another surface setting, it will be even more unreal in terms of grip in comparison with the real video... seen that with optimal I have long slides every time and bad racing lines.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Yes, I agree with you that they are never the same conditions/variables involved, but in this case I think that the National-Silverstone track for a Pro-driver there is near 0 fear factor in a hotlap with theese cars. It's a very safe section of the track IMO.

It can be a poor measure of comparison, but when a not pro-driver (like me) drives in AC with optimal surface setting, has long sliding during every corner, going out of the proper lines, loosing almost every apex, braking in long slides with not much control of the trajectory and, even then, at a so short track, I lap 2 seconds faster than the Pro-driver real life time ... That adds some more disparity between a pro-driver real lap time and a amateur-driver simulator lap time in my opinion.

If I choose another surface setting, it will be even more unreal in terms of grip in comparison with the real video... seen that with optimal I have long slides every time and bad racing lines.

On the AC forums Aris stated that in his opinion you should run the Nordschleife track at "green" or "old" and temperatures at around 15C, that will give more realistic grip levels for typical use. And he also pointed out that the hypercar trofeo tyres are pretty much slicks, so use the road tyre variants when racing Hypercars on your lower-grip Nordschleife for a fun experience

Running it at optimum is probably too grippy even for the endurance layout during the N24 race,.

In light of Aris comments, about the Nords, what track setting, track temperature and tyres are you using when saying that particular car is too fast in AC vs IRL?
Optimum track setting and better tyre are available so the not so great driver do not get discouraged too quickly and hopefully will stick long enough to improve their driving.
When seeking reality one should follow Aris advice, if one should know, it is him.

 

[oneloops]

On the AC forums Aris stated that in his opinion you should run the Nordschleife track at "green" or "old" and temperatures at around 15C, that will give more realistic grip levels for typical use. And he also pointed out that the hypercar trofeo tyres are pretty much slicks, so use the road tyre variants when racing Hypercars on your lower-grip Nordschleife for a fun experience

Running it at optimum is probably too grippy even for the endurance layout during the N24 race,.

In light of Aris comments, about the Nords, what track setting, track temperature and tyres are you using when saying that particular car is too fast in AC vs IRL?
Optimum track setting and better tyre are available so the not so great driver do not get discouraged too quickly and hopefully will stick long enough to improve their driving.
When seeking reality one should follow Aris advice, if one should know, it is him.

Even with hypercar trofeo tyres it seems to me that there is too much drift and long drifts while braking, cornering and accelerating ... As my criticism with AC was about a lack of grip and too much long slides I wasn't searching for less grippy settings in order to correct my feel...

But thanks a lot for the information, I will give it a try Maybe I have to reprogram my mind with those new settings and have a smoother experience with AC. I've tryed less grip surfaces sometimes but I had to drive in a even more conservative way, so it was a little frustanting when driving hot-fast-modern cars.

About the Nords, I use to try several times the Porsche's Hotlap events, 911 GT3 RS, 911 R, Panamera and 918, always at standard settings (aero position 1 with 911 R) so they was with optimal surface and pretty much soft tyres I supposse.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, I agree with you that they are never the same conditions/variables involved, but in this case I think that the National-Silverstone track for a Pro-driver there is near 0 fear factor in a hotlap with theese cars. It's a very safe section of the track IMO.

It is a safer layout of the track, but these are still road cars and as such not built to protect to the same level as a race car.

You are also forgetting the fear of wreaking the car, something that has been an issue since Mark Hales was sued.

It can be a poor measure of comparison, but when a not pro-driver (like me) drives in AC with optimal surface setting, has long sliding during every corner, going out of the proper lines, loosing almost every apex, braking in long slides with not much control of the trajectory and, even then, at a so short track, I lap 2 seconds faster than the Pro-driver real life time ... That adds some more disparity between a pro-driver real lap time and a amateur-driver simulator lap time in my opinion.

If I choose another surface setting, it will be even more unreal in terms of grip in comparison with the real video... seen that with optimal I have long slides every time and bad racing lines.

I know I have requested this before, but can you please put up a video of this, as your experience does seem to run counter to most other people, and it would be interesting to see the issues.

In terms of the kind of conditions you would expect at Silverstone in Sep temps should be around 12c at that time of day and track surface would be slow (a fair amount of rain would have washed away most of the rubber).

You are not going to have huge amounts of grip in these conditions, as the video does show, as such a video from you would help to compare the two.

Certainly having rewatched the video a few times grip is clearly in short supply, and if you ran a comparison on optimal track surface and a higher ambient temperature it's more than possible for a messier lap to be quicker.

Part of the reason why lap times are not a great comparison tool. However we do in that video have a nice lap full of telemetry, so I think I might put a side by side comparison together and look at those. As I can use SIM dashboard to get most of the same overlay as the vbox.

 

[Scaff]

Video of AC Vs the Silverstone National, time corrected.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/assetto-corsa-video-thread.290887/page-87#post-11913810

 

[oneloops]

Video of AC Vs the Silverstone National, time corrected.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/assetto-corsa-video-thread.290887/page-87#post-11913810

Hello Scaff, Thanks for your video I think is not said what track surface did you used for this test... I will give a try with the same settings than you.

For the moment, if we look at 2'49", at 3'25" and at 4'47" from your video, the AC way of loose grip is lazier and less sharpenned than in RL. The real life driver is correcting more times than you and in a more agresively way the steering-wheel, he is pushing more than you and the way he is loosing and getting grip is more quickly than us in AC, in the original video we can even hear and see that sequence of grip/drift over the corners.

Even when tyre compound I (the softer one) in your video the drift sequences are longuer and less sharpen than the RL video.

That was my criticism about tyre/model or physics in AC loose and get back grip is by long drifts instead of short sequences of drift like in the real life video. (As said before, for example from 4'28" to 4'43")

 

[Scaff]

Hello Scaff, Thanks for your video I think is not said what track surface did you used for this test... I will give a try with the same settings than you.

For the moment, if we look at 2'49", at 3'25" and at 4'47" from your video, the AC way of loose grip is lazier and less sharpenned than in RL. The real life driver is correcting more times than you and in a more agresively way the steering-wheel, he is pushing more than you and the way he is loosing and getting grip is more quickly than us in AC, in the original video we can even hear and see that sequence of grip/drift over the corners.

Even when tyre compound I (the softer one) in your video the drift sequences are longuer and less sharpen than the RL video.

That was my criticism about tyre/model or physics in AC loose and get back grip is by long drifts instead of short sequences of drift like in the real life video. (As said before, for example from 4'28" to 4'43")

I had the track surface set to 'slow'.

I would agree that he is having to correct more in some corners that me, but in other corners its the other way around. Keep in mind I did't set out to drive in exactly the same manner, rather I just drove the track and only compared them directly when putting the video together.

From the drivers seat only one of them was what I would class as being even close to long, and that was an issue with my right foot rather than anything else. The replay footage (a sample of which is shown when I am talking) doesn't show any long drifts (apart from the one I mentioned).

Don't get me wrong, AC isn't perfect, but the long drifts, locking and other issues you have described, I certainly don't find to be the case when driving.

In regard to the issues you have mentioned with braking, what wheel are you using and do you calibrate the pedals when you start AC up?

 

[oneloops]

I had the track surface set to 'slow'.

I would agree that he is having to correct more in some corners that me, but in other corners its the other way around. Keep in mind I did't set out to drive in exactly the same manner, rather I just drove the track and only compared them directly when putting the video together.

From the drivers seat only one of them was what I would class as being even close to long, and that was an issue with my right foot rather than anything else. The replay footage (a sample of which is shown when I am talking) doesn't show any long drifts (apart from the one I mentioned).

Don't get me wrong, AC isn't perfect, but the long drifts, locking and other issues you have described, I certainly don't find to be the case when driving.

In regard to the issues you have mentioned with braking, what wheel are you using and do you calibrate the pedals when you start AC up?

I have a T500RS, I've calibrated the pedals some time ago, I will do it again, thanks.

Don't get me wrong, you drive smoothly like me when I want to keep a clean line, in a very conservative driving. When I push harder, the long slides sequences (even with soft tyres and optimal surface) restrain me to play with the grip limit as the RL driver does, with short and sharpened drifts and correcting it with short quickly wheel movements, that's the point of my criticism.

 

[MIKEYJ73]

I have a T500RS, I've calibrated the pedals some time ago, I will do it again, thanks.

Don't get me wrong, you drive smoothly like me when I want to keep a clean line, in a very conservative driving. When I push harder, the long slides sequences (even with soft tyres and optimal surface) restrain me to play with the grip limit as the RL driver does, with short and sharpened drifts and correcting it with short quickly wheel movements, that's the point of my criticism.

Hi oneloops, I think the general consensus on here is that pedals need to be calibrated in game on the start up screen with the large picture of the Ferrari, before pressing X to start the game [at least that's how it works on PS4].

 

[lancia delta hf]

There are no G-forces in your body from playing the game. This accounts for some things.

 

[Scaff]

I have a T500RS, I've calibrated the pedals some time ago, I will do it again, thanks.

Don't get me wrong, you drive smoothly like me when I want to keep a clean line, in a very conservative driving. When I push harder, the long slides sequences (even with soft tyres and optimal surface) restrain me to play with the grip limit as the RL driver does, with short and sharpened drifts and correcting it with short quickly wheel movements, that's the point of my criticism.

As @mikeyj73 said you need to calibrate your pedals every time you start AC (which is a pain) at the Ferrari splash screen by depressing the pedals all the way.

I run a T300 and set of T3PA Pro pedals, so the pedals are similar to yours, but you may not have the conical brake mod, which makes a massive difference over nothing or the spring mod in terms of avoiding lock-up (but only if you have calibrated them wen you start AC up).

In regard to the on the limit behaviour, personally I find both AC and PCars to have some issues once you go over the limit, but certainly not to the degree you seem to be experiencing, and most certainly not to the degree that GT5 or 6 does it better, quite the opposite in that regard. I find GT to have an almost digital quality to its grip/slip transition.

 

[eclipsee]

I'm not a hardcore gamer but I play enough to make 2 seconds faster (00'56"XX) than theese drivers in real life with the same cars at the same very-short track and all aids off (only abs on) in those cars (and they are miles away from me in racing capabilities)

There are too many variables to be able to compare real times, weather conditions, track grip conditions, car settings, tyre pressures, track bumps model accuracy, car physics model, tyre physics model, fear of wrecking the car, car practice /confidence, driver skills, etcetera.

We can achieve faster times than in real life mainly because we won't get injured nor won't wreck anything and we exploit the car physics in the sim because in no sim they are perfect.

 

[Georgeagea]

As @mikeyj73 said you need to calibrate your pedals every time you start AC (which is a pain) at the Ferrari splash screen by depressing the pedals all the way.

Excuse me for these off-topic questions, but
Is that calibration on the PS4?!
Is it needed or required?!
What effect does it have?! I mean why do it?!
Should I press all 3 pedals at the same time? Or sequentially?! Or how?!

I mean I never did that, and everything seems fine to me.
Thx!

 

[Scaff]

Excuse me for these off-topic questions, but
Is that calibration on the PS4?!
Is it needed or required?!
What effect does it have?! I mean why do it?!
Should I press all 3 pedals at the same time? Or sequentially?! Or how?!

I mean I never did that, and everything seems fine to me.
Thx!

I'm on the PS4 with a set of Thrustmaster T3PA Pro pedals (but I also did it with my old T3PA's) and you can't set the final (100%) position in AC for them. As such the title has no default to work with when you start it up, resulting in a lot of brake lock-up when you first start driving (most noticeable on cars without ABS).

If at the Ferrari splash screen at the start you depress the pedals (its doesn't have to be at the same time and its mainly the brake you need to do) to the point you want 100% to occur at then it presets it. I run a fairly hard brake mod on mine so by depressing it hard I get full range of modulation on the brakes, which makes non-ABS driving much easier.

 

[oneloops]

As @mikeyj73 said you need to calibrate your pedals every time you start AC (which is a pain) at the Ferrari splash screen by depressing the pedals all the way.

I run a T300 and set of T3PA Pro pedals, so the pedals are similar to yours, but you may not have the conical brake mod, which makes a massive difference over nothing or the spring mod in terms of avoiding lock-up (but only if you have calibrated them wen you start AC up).

In regard to the on the limit behaviour, personally I find both AC and PCars to have some issues once you go over the limit, but certainly not to the degree you seem to be experiencing, and most certainly not to the degree that GT5 or 6 does it better, quite the opposite in that regard. I find GT to have an almost digital quality to its grip/slip transition.

Hi again. I've tested with your settings (surface slow, all aids off except abs on, temperature 14°, heavy clouds).

This time I would talk only about the cornering phase, in order to exclude possible problems about my brake pedals (if they are well calibrated or not), so we can focus in only one thing : lateral grip and steering-wheel movements while cornering.

With slow surface the grip/slip transition is smoother, but when the car is drifting I found again the same sensations that I said before, lazy and long drift sequences instead of short-sharpen drift sequences like the RL video...

The only way to go "fast" is driving in a exagerated conservative way trying to keep the wheel in the same position as long as possible, not pushing nor playing with the grip limit as the driver in the RL does, because in AC there's not that kind of "short-quick-reactive" grip/slip sequences.

In all the settings that I've tested, the car can't be driven like in the RL video pushing the grip with the wheel with very short and sharpen drifts, as we can see and hear in your videos and mines... I think that is very clear the different way of grip/slip transition in the RL video in comparison with ours in AC. That's the main point of my criticism about AC... I think they can improve that.

Here that's me driving in three videos with the 918, one with optimum surface, and the others two with slow surface (hard and soft tyres each one), *sorry, they can't be embebed from this source* :

OPTIMUM AND SOFT TYRES https://sendvid.com/hlp239c2
SLOW SOFT TYRES https://sendvid.com/zj8sfqk9
SLOW HARD TYRES http://sendvid.com/1sxqmocz

I ran about 15-20 laps with each setting to get a deeper idea of the grip/slip simulation.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your advices, they helped me to know more about AC, and got some fun testing. I think it's a good comparison those 3 cars in Silverstone National. I hope you got some fun with your video too

 

[Scaff]

Hi again. I've tested with your settings (surface slow, all aids off except abs on, temperature 14°, heavy clouds).

This time I would talk only about the cornering phase, in order to exclude possible problems about my brake pedals (if they are well calibrated or not), so we can focus in only one thing : lateral grip and steering-wheel movements while cornering.

With slow surface the grip/slip transition is smoother, but when the car is drifting I found again the same sensations that I said before, lazy and long drift sequences instead of short-sharpen drift sequences like the RL video...

The only way to go "fast" is driving in a exagerated conservative way trying to keep the wheel in the same position as long as possible, not pushing nor playing with the grip limit as the driver in the RL does, because in AC there's not that kind of "short-quick-reactive" grip/slip sequences.

In all the settings that I've tested, the car can't be driven like in the RL video pushing the grip with the wheel with very short and sharpen drifts, as we can see and hear in your videos and mines... I think that is very clear the different way of grip/slip transition in the RL video in comparison with ours in AC. That's the main point of my criticism about AC... I think they can improve that.

Here that's me driving in three videos with the 918, one with optimum surface, and the others two with slow surface (hard and soft tyres each one), *sorry, they can't be embebed from this source* :

OPTIMUM AND SOFT TYRES https://sendvid.com/hlp239c2
SLOW SOFT TYRES https://sendvid.com/zj8sfqk9
SLOW HARD TYRES http://sendvid.com/1sxqmocz

I ran about 15-20 laps with each setting to get a deeper idea of the grip/slip simulation.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your advices, they helped me to know more about AC, and got some fun testing. I think it's a good comparison those 3 cars in Silverstone National. I hope you got some fun with your video too

The rapid steering input you see in the RL footage isn't rapid slides being corrected at all, it's the driver balancing the car between the reduction in self aligning torque and the peak lateral grip (both from the front tyres), as described here.



It's not slides from the rear being corrected, as if they were occuring that rapidly you would not be able to catch them.

AC models self aligning torque better than any other similar, but its certainly not perfect, interestingly I've seen some footage of PCars 2 that does seem to model it well.

 

[oneloops]

The rapid steering input you see in the RL footage isn't rapid slides being corrected at all, it's the driver balancing the car between the reduction in self aligning torque and the peak lateral grip (both from the front tyres), as described here.



It's not slides from the rear being corrected, as if they were occuring that rapidly you would not be able to catch them.

AC models self aligning torque better than any other similar, but its certainly not perfect, interestingly I've seen some footage of PCars 2 that does seem to model it well.

Yes I know that is the driving balancing the car over the peak lateral grip affecting only the tyres connected to the steering (front tyres), but it doesn't change anything in terms of how AC allows to drive :

In AC when the steering-wheel input exceeds the peak lateral grip, AC gives you in return a "long"-lazy slide (it can affect even the 4 tyres) instead of a short-sharpen slide like seen in the RL video. AC is not fast enough in my opinion in this kind of situation.

That's why you and me, in our videos, we are driving in a exagerated conservative way trying to keep the wheel in the same position as long as possible, not pushing nor playing with the peak lateral grip as the driver in the RL does, because in AC there's not that kind of "short-quick-reactive" grip/slip sequences.

 

[Scaff]

Yes I know that is the driving balancing the car over the peak lateral grip affecting only the tyres connected to the steering (front tyres), but it doesn't change anything in terms of how AC allows to drive :

In AC when the steering-wheel input exceeds the peak lateral grip, AC gives you in return a "long"-lazy slide (it can affect even the 4 tyres) instead of a short-sharpen slide like seen in the RL video. AC is not fast enough in my opinion in this kind of situation.

That's why you and me, in our videos, we are driving in a exagerated conservative way trying to keep the wheel in the same position as long as possible, not pushing nor playing with the peak lateral grip as the driver in the RL does, because in AC there's not that kind of "short-quick-reactive" grip/slip sequences.

The majority of what you see being corrected in the RL video are not slides, it's occuring before peak lateral grip is exceeded, that's what the first video is explaining.

No slide is occurring at all, self aligning torque reduces steering load before peak lateral grip is exceeded. That's what he is balancing the majority of the time, it's not correcting a slid.

Not all drivers deal with it in the same way either, Carlos Sainz looks like he is randomly throwing lock on and off when he was doing it, while the likes of Richard Burns and Seb Loeb hardly did it at all.

 

[oneloops]

The majority of what you see being corrected in the RL video are not slides, it's occuring before peak lateral grip is exceeded, that's what the first video is explaining.

No slide is occurring at all, self aligning torque reduces steering load before peak lateral grip is exceeded. That's what he is balancing the majority of the time, it's not correcting a slid.

Not all drivers deal with it in the same way either, Carlos Sainz looks like he is randomly throwing lock on and off when he was doing it, while the likes of Richard Burns and Seb Loeb hardly did it at all.

If tyres sound squaling even for short time lapses, they are sliding (like in the RL video), forced by the driver with his short-quick wheel movements.

Yes, I agree, each driver has his own way to drive. But AC doesn't allow to drive like in the RL video I've posted, because AC there's not that kind of "short-quick-reactive" grip/slip sequences with all kinds of configurations tested with those cars and those tyres.

 

[Scaff]

If tyres sound squaling even for short time lapses, they are sliding (like in the RL video), forced by the driver with his short-quick wheel movements.

Yes, I agree, each driver has his own way to drive. But AC doesn't allow to drive like in the RL video I've posted, because AC there's not that kind of "short-quick-reactive" grip/slip sequences with all kinds of configurations tested with those cars and those tyres.

Sorry but no they are not.

Tyres will start to make a noise as soon as the self aligning torque starts to reduce as the tyres contact patch is starting to align back to the direction of tyre travel (from the direction of vehicle travel). Well technically it's actually as you get to the very border of slip angle still returning an increase in lateral force.

At that point you have not yet reached peak lateral grip (as the video I posted clearly explained), tyre noise will continue as the tyre then exceeds peak lateral grip, slip angle reduces and the tyre begins to slide.

Now how long these phases are and how much noise it makes will vary from car to car, tyre to tyre and track to track.

In the diagram below it's the 3 to 6 degree tyre slip range, as lateral grip is still increasing, self aligning torque has reduced significantly and the tyre are starting to make a noise. The rapid steering action is how some drivers balance the car in that peak 4 to 6 degrees of slip angle that return maximum lateral grip.

 

[oneloops]

Sorry but no they are not.

Tyres will start to make a noise as soon as the self aligning torque starts to reduce as the tyres contact patch is starting to align back to the direction of tyre travel (from the direction of vehicle travel). Well technically it's actually as you get to the very border of slip angle still returning an increase in lateral force.

At that point you have not yet reached peak lateral grip (as the video I posted clearly explained), tyre noise will continue as the tyre then exceeds peak lateral grip, slip angle reduces and the tyre begins to slide.

Now how long these phases are and how much noise it makes will vary from car to car, tyre to tyre and track to track.

In the diagram below it's the 3 to 6 degree tyre slip range, as lateral grip is still increasing, self aligning torque has reduced significantly and the tyre are starting to make a noise. The rapid steering action is how some drivers balance the car in that peak 4 to 6 degrees of slip angle that return maximum lateral grip.

View attachment 667408

For me it's very 100% clear, if the tyre make squeal sounds => slip exists (from micro slip to big slides, that sound different one from each other).

The short-quick slips (with their short souinds) I'm talking about are in the RL video I posted and that kind of situation AC can't recreate in the same way than RL. I can't write that anymore, I wrote that +10 times...

You can say that's not technically an slide or a slip (ok, lets name it X, I have named it short-quick-slides) AC can't recreate X in the same way that the RL video posted. AC videos that we posted are there and the RL video is there too and the difference is obvious.

Try to drive that way (that kind of rapid steering actions to balance the car), like the RL video with the same settings we have tested, or even with the 2 kind of tyres available, you will not get that short-slip or X, neither that car reaction, neither that FFB, neither that noise, neither a faster lap. You will get a more or less slow-long-lazy slip sequence and lost-time in your lap time. I've already tested it.

 

[Scaff]

For me it's very 100% clear, if the tyre make squeal sounds => slip exists (from micro slip to big slides, that sound different one from each other).

It can be 100% clear for you, that doesn't make it correct. A tyre doesn't need to be sliding to make a noise.

The short-quick slips (with their short souinds) I'm talking about are in the RL video I posted and that kind of situation AC can't recreate in the same way than RL. I can't write that anymore, I wrote that +10 times...

And yet here its is being done.

You can say that's not technically an slide or a slip (ok, lets name it X, I have named it short-quick-slides) AC can't recreate X in the same way that the RL video posted. AC videos that we posted are there and the RL video is there too and the difference is obvious.

No, you and I can't do it, that doesn't mean it can't be done, as the video above shows.

I also think that being technically correct as to what phase this is occurring at is important, tyre slip is not the same as sliding. A tyre is slipping to a degree as soon as you turn the wheel (it generates a slip angle), however that doesn't mean that the peak lateral grip for that tyre has been exceeded (which is required for a slide to even begin). In fact lateral grip increases as the slip angle increases, up to a point (which will vary depending on the car, track, tyre, etc), that's not my opinion, belief or view on it, that is how the physics of tyre dynamics work.

Try to drive that way (that kind of rapid steering actions to balance the car), like the RL video with the same settings we have tested, or even with the 2 kind of tyres available, you will not get that short-slip or X, neither that car reaction, neither that FFB, neither that noise, neither a faster lap. You will get a more or less long-lazy slip sequence and lost-time in your lap time. I've already tested it.

So have I. I agree that its not 100% correct by any means, but its also not completely absent and not a million miles away from how PCars deals with it, and a lot better than GT5/6 deals with it.

Now PC2 looks to have improved a great deal in that regard.

 

[oneloops]

It can be 100% clear for you, that doesn't make it correct. A tyre doesn't need to be sliding to make a noise.


And yet here its is being done.





No, you and I can't do it, that doesn't mean it can't be done, as the video above shows.

I also think that being technically correct as to what phase this is occurring at is important, tyre slip is not the same as sliding. A tyre is slipping to a degree as soon as you turn the wheel (it generates a slip angle), however that doesn't mean that the peak lateral grip for that tyre has been exceeded (which is required for a slide to even begin). In fact lateral grip increases as the slip angle increases, up to a point (which will vary depending on the car, track, tyre, etc), that's not my opinion, belief or view on it, that is how the physics of tyre dynamics work.



So have I. I agree that its not 100% correct by any means, but its also not completely absent and not a million miles away from how PCars deals with it, and a lot better than GT5/6 deals with it.

Now PC2 looks to have improved a great deal in that regard.

For the moment, in AC I've never seen a video with that kind of car reactions (and noise) with that kind of rapid steering actions to balance the car. That's why I say AC can't do that for the moment. In a simulator, that's not a complicated technique, it's a very simple one, you give rapid steering actions next to the grip limit while cornering, you can try till you get it...

The 4C video is a completely different driving style in comparison with the 3 cars at Silverstone, this is not searching the best lap time, this is more a drifting, long-slow-slides way to drive.

With AC we can drive this way easily, AC can recreate that style quite well.

I'm not saying AC simulate that situation a hundred times worse than PCars or GT6, only that I miss that in AC to be simulated better, it's the point I miss the most to get fun with it with that realistic simulation. AC is a great simulator and the deeper and more complex simulator I've ever tryed.

 

[lancia delta hf]

For me it's very 100% clear, if the tyre make squeal sounds => slip exists (from micro slip to big slides, that sound different one from each other).

The short-quick slips (with their short souinds) I'm talking about are in the RL video I posted and that kind of situation AC can't recreate in the same way than RL. I can't write that anymore, I wrote that +10 times...

You can say that's not technically an slide or a slip (ok, lets name it X, I have named it short-quick-slides) AC can't recreate X in the same way that the RL video posted. AC videos that we posted are there and the RL video is there too and the difference is obvious.

Try to drive that way (that kind of rapid steering actions to balance the car), like the RL video with the same settings we have tested, or even with the 2 kind of tyres available, you will not get that short-slip or X, neither that car reaction, neither that FFB, neither that noise, neither a faster lap. You will get a more or less slow-long-lazy slip sequence and lost-time in your lap time. I've already tested it.

Tyres don't squeal because they slide, they squeal because of the vibrations between tread. Slicks for example don't squeal.

Edit: also if you have a particular issue with the physics, you should PM Aris on FB and tell him what is wrong, I'm sure he'd love to know so he can improve it. I messaged him two days ago about a query and he replied yesterday with a lot of info and we had a quick chat. Doesn't look like we will see Lancia in the game going by our chat.

This thread reminds of another one I saw where the poster said the physics couldn't be realistic because he couldn't drift the F40 like Cris Harris did in his video. Lol.

 

[oneloops]

Tyres don't squeal because they slide, they squeal because of the vibrations between tread. Slicks for example don't squeal.

Edit: also if you have a particular issue with the physics, you should PM Aris on FB and tell him what is wrong, I'm sure he'd love to know so he can improve it. I messaged him two days ago about a query and he replied yesterday with a lot of info and we had a quick chat. Doesn't look like we will see Lancia in the game going by our chat.

This thread reminds of another one I saw where the poster said the physics couldn't be realistic because he couldn't drift the F40 like Cris Harris did in his video. Lol.

Yes, these threads maybe take too long, I assume my fault, sorry. I can't express myself in a high technical way neither in a precise English, sometimes it takes long because of that.

Edit : I said that tyres that squeal are sliding (micro slides or big slides), not the opposite, my sentence is not bidirectional. I said : If A then B, not if B then A. I didn't said that if they slides, they have to squeal (it depends of the kind of the tyre, the surface grip and others factors).

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I said that tyres that squeal are sliding

I can't agree with this for at least two reasons from personal experience alone.

1. Hearing dozens of tyres screaming whenever people turned their wheel while they were driving at 10-15mph in traffic, because the road was so hot.

2. Going back to one of my first cars, whatever kind of tyres my garage fitted I unfortunately can't remember, but they used to squeal significantly before the point of slipping and would become loud at their limit. For that reason they were a lot of fun to my younger, not-so-sensible self and very handy volume indicator on how much grip I had left!

 

[ALB123]

Thanks for sharing that link Scaff. I think I'll watch that dude's entire series on racing tires.

 

[oneloops]

I can't agree with this for at least two reasons from personal experience alone.

1. Hearing dozens of tyres screaming whenever people turned their wheel while they were driving at 10-15mph in traffic, because the road was so hot.

2. Going back to one of my first cars, whatever kind of tyres my garage fitted I unfortunately can't remember, but they used to squeal significantly before the point of slipping and would become loud at their limit. For that reason they were a lot of fun to my younger, not-so-sensible self and very handy volume indicator on how much grip I had left!

1.- Well, that's very far in comparison of the amount of grip at an international racing track like Silverstone at 14° (which is the case I was talking about). With hot surfaces or gluant products (like wax) the tyre make vibrations (and squeal) even at very low speed in straight line among "glued-to-the-floor" parts and sliding parts of the same tyre. My way to explain those squeals at Silverstone are : first squeals=micro slip near the grips limit between the tread pattern design and the track surface (some parts of the tyre can be "in grip" some parts sliding because of the tyre elasticity) . Second squeals=big slides that makes an entire displacement of the tyre.

The difference from your case to the other is that in your case tyres can squeal even in straight line at low constant speed, at a track with those conditions you have to push near the limit of grip (turning, braking or accelerating) to begin those little slips in a part or the totality of the tyre.

2.- That was because of bad quality of the tyre, too much vibration and elasticity in the treads. With high quality tyres it doesn't happen. The avalaible tyres in AC for those Hypercars should be high quality ones. Too much vibration produces too much hot that is not good for a tyre, if it becomes too hot even at low speed, I can't imagine the hot excess in those tyres driving in a sport way.

 

[DeadHero]

A bit off-topic..

Doesn't look like we will see Lancia in the game going by our chat

I'd love to see Lancia in AC but I didn't have high hopes since Marco said they had no plans for this brand. Too bad.

 

[Scaff]

1.- Well, that's very far in comparison of the amount of grip at an international racing track like Silverstone at 14° (which is the case I was talking about). With hot surfaces or gluant products (like wax) the tyre make vibrations (and squeal) even at very low speed in straight line among "glued-to-the-floor" parts and sliding parts of the same tyre. My way to explain those squeals at Silverstone are : first squeals=micro slip near the grips limit between the tread pattern design and the track surface (some parts of the tyre can be "in grip" some parts sliding because of the tyre elasticity) . Second squeals=big slides that makes an entire displacement of the tyre.

The difference from your case to the other is that in your case tyres can squeal even in straight line at low constant speed, at a track with those conditions you have to push near the limit of grip (turning, braking or accelerating) to begin those little slips in a part or the totality of the tyre.

Indeed, it is however important to remember that a tyre is experiencing those 'micro-slips' any time is rolling, doesn't mena its actually lost grip at that point.

I think this is the cause of some of the confusion with regard to your (and it may be down to the language barrier) rather absolute statement that any time a tyre squeals its lost grip.

I was also having a play around with AC and PC last night, with the P1 at Silverstone National, and you can get some of what you are looking for back if you switch the understeer effects on in AC.

2.- That was because of bad quality of the tyre, too much vibration and elasticity in the treads. With high quality tyres it doesn't happen. The avalaible tyres in AC for those Hypercars should be high quality ones. Too much vibration produces too much hot that is not good for a tyre, if it becomes too hot even at low speed, I can't imagine the hot excess in those tyres driving in a sport way.

Doesn't mean its a bad tyre, it could be or it could be an eco tyre. Those have a much lower rolling resistance and a tendency to make more noise, they could be a high quality eco tyre and still display that.

I 100% agree that isn't what you would get on any of the cars in question, but it doesn't mean they would automatically be a bad quality.