It is me or the AI in NASCAR is ridiculous

[Auraxir]

i can't finish the Nascar championship on the extreme league because the AI has super mega ultra drafting capacities, anyone has the same problem??

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

The AI is a bit ridiculous but they can still be beat, rather easily if you know what your doing. Draft to the front and hold the bottom. If you see them getting a run on you on the outside, move up and let them bump you then move back to the bottom. Its all about working the draft.

 

[aadil717]

Also turn your downforce down, it may be slowing you down.

 

[Auraxir]

The AI is a bit ridiculous but they can still be beat, rather easily if you know what your doing. Draft to the front and hold the bottom. If you see them getting a run on you on the outside, move up and let them bump you then move back to the bottom. Its all about working the draft.

you mean, like a slingshot??

 

[Exorcet]

Also turn your downforce down, it may be slowing you down.

Reducing downforce in GT5 is always a mistake.

Always run max downforce in GT Mode.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Reducing downforce in GT5 is always a mistake.

Always run max downforce in GT Mode.

... At Daytona, not reducing it is a mistake.

 

[Exorcet]

All reducing it will do is slow you down on the corners. It won't gain you any top speed.

 

[xEquinox]

All reducing it will do is slow you down on the corners. It won't gain you any top speed.

No... Reducing on Daytona helps a lot. I'm guessing you've never tried it?

 

[gamerdog6482]

All reducing it will do is slow you down on the corners. It won't gain you any top speed.

Daytona doesn't have any real corners, and it most certainly will gain you top speed.
BOT, if you get a good tune going on your car it is remarkably easy. A different tune is generally required for each track, although a global tune can be used if you're willing to fight for it. And as previously stated, don't just drive, race. block your opponents from overtaking you.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I run max downforce both online and offline, never a problem. You want max downforce, you will not gain anything by decreasing it. I have done many tests and even ran against guys with decreased downforce and they had no advantage at all. If anything, they would be at a disadvantage as they were slower in the corners due to being loose because of the lack of aero. Bottom line, you want max aero at Daytona.

 

[MustangManiac]

Daytona doesn't have any real corners, and it most certainly will gain you top speed.
BOT, if you get a good tune going on your car it is remarkably easy. A different tune is generally required for each track, although a global tune can be used if you're willing to fight for it. And as previously stated, don't just drive, race. block your opponents from overtaking you.

I didn't think you were able to change tuning between races in the championship. I won them all with the same tune, sure would have been nice to change the gearing for the road courses vs the ovals.

 

[Veyron Tony]

You can change tuning between races, set the trans for 220mph max,and put RS/frt, RM/rr, it will improve your grip. And hang on...

 

[Machate-man]

Daytona's straights are not long enough for the benefits of minimal downforce to be apparent; You would only see a difference on a track like Route X.

 

[Exorcet]

Daytona doesn't have any real corners, and it most certainly will gain you top speed.
BOT, if you get a good tune going on your car it is remarkably easy. A different tune is generally required for each track, although a global tune can be used if you're willing to fight for it. And as previously stated, don't just drive, race. block your opponents from overtaking you.

A corner is a corner, and Daytona has big ones. When you draft, you can get some insanely high speeds, so fast that even with RS tires, you won't be able to hold all that speed, downforce will come in handy there. In GT, there isn't really any drag added, so it's not a big deal, especially when you can draft to 240+ mph.

It would be nice if someone could perhaps run a test and post some times.

No... Reducing on Daytona helps a lot. I'm guessing you've never tried it?

I've spent a lot of time finding the problems with GT5's aero model. I've even done this:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5490358#post5490358

In multiple threads.

 

[bs13]

I never run aero on Daytona and I hit 222mph on the straights and come out of the turns running 208mph. That is out front by myself with no draft.

Make sure your car is completely broke-in. It should have 892hp.

Lower your aero all the way. Set your ride height to +12, +12 and springs to 18.5, 18.5. If you want you can set your toe settings to 0.0 as toe will slow you down a little. You may also need to play with the gearing as it plays a major factor in how fast you are at Daytona.

 

[Veyron Tony]

You`ll have to experiment a little with NASCARs because they don`t drive like other cars, they`re very loose and spin easily, and they`re hard on tires.
I`ve driven a lot of laps in other cars, but I have to relearn my NASCAR skills whenever I get into one.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I found this to be one of the hardest races in GT5, you have to stay out of trouble and be careful when moving in front of the AI because you will spin out. Keep your car as close to the front group as possible and make your move late on in the race.

A corner is a corner, and Daytona has big ones. When you draft, you can get some insanely high speeds, so fast that even with RS tires, you won't be able to hold all that speed, downforce will come in handy there. In GT, there isn't really any drag added, so it's not a big deal, especially when you can draft to 240+ mph.

It would be nice if someone could perhaps run a test and post some times.



I've spent a lot of time finding the problems with GT5's aero model. I've even done this:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5490358#post5490358

In multiple threads.

You struggle to reach high speeds with so much downforce, banking, a little bit of downforce and good mechanical grip is enough to fly around the corners. I can't remember what setting I used for the Nascar but I have used the lowest posssible downforce setting on some race cars for Daytona and went significantly quicker.

 

[Exorcet]

You struggle to reach high speeds with so much downforce

That I can be pretty sure is wrong, at least in GT. In real life yes, but GT aero drag is beyond exaggerated in how weak it is. What difference there is in top speed could be measured in single digits.

banking, a little bit of downforce and good mechanical grip is enough to fly around the corners. I can't remember what setting I used for the Nascar but I have used the lowest posssible downforce setting on some race cars for Daytona and went significantly quicker.

As much as I would like to find a case where lowering downforce improves laptimes, I've not yet been able to. Not even at Sarthe without chicane. I suppose Route X would be the one exception (I hope) but I don't have it.

Focusing on NASCAR, with the default overdone draft, you can reach 250 mph going into the corners at Daytona, which is more than even RS tires can stand if I remember. With higher downforce, you can be on the gas longer instead of bleeding off speed to make the corners.

Thinking about it though, the last time I did test this oval racing was a few patches ago, so perhaps things have changed and there is more grip at Daytona. I am completely sure that the loss in speed due to induced drag almost doesn't exist though.

 

[seanneedscar]

My god, Daytona took me forever. What a nightmare. Hardest race in A-spec mode by far.

You just need to keep trying. hold your line because the AI will spin you out. draft when you can. Try to be in 3rd place or so on the last lap so you can draft into 1st. If you go into the last lap in 1st place you will probably lose.

 

[gamerdog6482]

I am completely sure that the loss in speed due to induced drag almost doesn't exist though.

And I am completely sure that is wrong. I did a simple top speed test with a tuned up Skyline, and got over nine MPH faster with downforce at 0/5 than with downforce at 0/20. That's with a Skyline. NASCARs have much more power, so the difference would be even higher. Case and point, you're wrong, and I have proof. It may not be as much as in real life, but it is still substantial.

 

[leexr2i]

Get in to 2nd place and hold it Till the last turn of the last lap.. Then draft past! If you go for the lead before this then they just draft past you!

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

And I am completely sure that is wrong. I did a simple top speed test with a tuned up Skyline, and got over nine MPH faster with downforce at 0/5 than with downforce at 0/20. That's with a Skyline. NASCARs have much more power, so the difference would be even higher. Case and point, you're wrong, and I have proof. It may not be as much as in real life, but it is still substantial.

First, the correct term is NASCAR cars. Second, and I am only speaking from the NASCAR side of things here, you are wrong. I have been running NASCAR rooms and have done all kinds of tests with NASCAR cars since launch. There is absolutely no advantage to running min. areo at Daytona. With or without areo, the speeds down the backstretch are the same. With areo, the speeds in the turns are faster. I hold one of the fastest solo online lap times, and it was done with full downforce. Again, it might be different for other cars, but for NASCAR cars at Daytona, you need areo....fact.

 

[gamerdog6482]

First, the correct term is NASCAR cars. Second, and I am only speaking from the NASCAR side of things here, you are wrong. I have been running NASCAR rooms and have done all kinds of tests with NASCAR cars since launch. There is absolutely no advantage to running min. areo at Daytona. With or without areo, the speeds down the backstretch are the same. With areo, the speeds in the turns are faster. I hold one of the fastest solo online lap times, and it was done with full downforce. Again, it might be different for other cars, but for NASCAR cars at Daytona, you need areo....fact.

Yes. I was saying that more downforce will produce higher top speeds, 100% of the time, as long as that is the only thing changed. I did my testiing on Route X, not Daytona, so it would be completely different. Daytona isn't a complete full-throttle oval like SSRX is, so it would produce different results. I am also pretty sure that more downforce produces faster acceleration.

 

[gamerdog6482]

i can't finish the Nascar championship on the extreme league because the AI has super mega ultra drafting capacities, anyone has the same problem??

https://sites.google.com/site/gt5tune/nascar
There's all the tunes you'd need. Hope it helps, got me through the B-Spec races.

 

[Exorcet]

I have proof.

Where? You referenced a test with a Skyline without even showing that such a thing occurred, and then you seem to guess that the difference with Stock cars would be greater. That's not proof.

It's very odd that a road car would show any noticeable difference, and I suspect that if the difference was 9 mph, something other than drag caused it.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=168119

Even F1 cars barely show a difference, considering the huge amount of variability in downforce they produce.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6148921#post6148921

It may not be as much as in real life, but it is still substantial.

Not even at Sarthe, racing with fully tuned LMP's is the drag reduction from low downforce enough to make up for the cornering speed difference.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Not even at Sarthe, racing with fully tuned LMP's is the drag reduction from low downforce enough to make up for the cornering speed difference.

I never said it would be so much as to make up for lost cornering speeds, and I certainly never said that it would show at Sarthe. I specifically said SSRX, where cornering doesn't matter except for certain cars, and SSRX is where I tested. Obviously you are going to want more downforce for tracks that aren't RouteX, just look at the Chapperal 2H.

 

[Exorcet]

I never said it would be so much as to make up for lost cornering speeds

That's what I was using as the qualifier for significant. The speed loss might be measureable, but if the tradeoff that is in place with real wings is not replicated, the difference might as well be zero.

Obviously you are going to want more downforce for tracks that aren't RouteX, just look at the Chapperal 2H.

It's not obvious at all. Downforce is complicated. Every track/car combination should require lap after lap of testing to find the optimum, instead of just jamming it up to the maximum 99% of the time.

 

[Furinkazen]

For Daytona Max Downforce. It keeps car glued to the ground and lessens tyre wear if running in a race with tyre wear. Also makes the car more stable, and easier to handle in dirty air.

I've run with the top NASCAR league on here and done hundreds of laps myself.

 

[Polsixe]

I seem to have better luck at Daytona with lowered suspension and less downforce, at least I can run with the front dogs until they start getting pushy. Only need a brief lift at turn 3 otherwise flat out. indy a few ticks up as the corners are sharper. My B spec Bobs won easily first time at Indy and Daytona with mr settings but personally I've had trouble with gold in the Daytona race, that and the FGT are the only unwinnable ones so far.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Yes. I was saying that more downforce will produce higher top speeds, 100% of the time, as long as that is the only thing changed. I did my testiing on Route X, not Daytona, so it would be completely different. Daytona isn't a complete full-throttle oval like SSRX is, so it would produce different results. I am also pretty sure that more downforce produces faster acceleration.

Yes, Daytona IS a full throttle track. If you can't run Daytona flat out, then you're doing something wrong. My guess is its YOUR lack of downforce that you claim is better, lol.