It is me or the AI in NASCAR is ridiculous

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

This. That is the absolut best way to do it. If you drive the car it will gain HP, thus nulling the results.

If I'd read everyone correctly, I'll be shooting for around 892HP after break-in/oil change correct?

 

[Santos i7]

If I'd read everyone correctly, I'll be shooting for around 892HP after break-in/oil change correct?

Correct.

 

[gamerdog6482]

No! Brand new, no break in. Yes oil change, don't drive it before the test. Use two cars, 1 for max df 1 for min df

 

[Santos i7]

No! Brand new, no break in. Yes oil change, don't drive it before the test. Use two cars, 1 for max df 1 for min df

Did you not read my last post at all?

 

[gamerdog6482]

Did you not read my last post at all?

Took me a long time to type mine, so no. Makes sense.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

In my experience at Daytona Max DF loses you a 1-2 mph on the straights when the car isn't running in a draft. However as the car leaves the turns at a higher speed overall you spend the same amount of time on the straights. And of course the car is faster in the turns, so overall the laptime is shorter.

The only noticeable downside to running extra downforce is in a good draft you can lose 5+mph at the end of the straight, but you can easily make this up in the corners.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

If I had a way to record and upload a video, I would. But for now, all I have is my own test results to fall back on. I did my tests online, solo run, tire wear/fuel consumption off, racing soft tires, and grip set to real with a fully broken in Toyota. My lap times were almost .500 quicker with full aero. Whoever does this test, you gotta make sure you run the exact same line every lap. If I can find my times from my tests, I'll post them so you can see what I ended up with. My apologies if I came off a bit harsh earlier, but when someone tries to tell me I wrong after I have done tests of my own and have results that back up my claim, I tend to get a little pissed. Anyway, no ill feelings towards anyone here. Peace.

 

[RedPartyhat]

If I had a way to record and upload a video, I would. But for now, all I have is my own test results to fall back on. I did my tests online, solo run, tire wear/fuel consumption off, racing soft tires, and grip set to real with a fully broken in Toyota. My lap times were almost .500 quicker with full aero. Whoever does this test, you gotta make sure you run the exact same line every lap. If I can find my times from my tests, I'll post them so you can see what I ended up with. My apologies if I came off a bit harsh earlier, but when someone tries to tell me I wrong after I have done tests of my own and have results that back up my claim, I tend to get a little pissed. Anyway, no ill feelings towards anyone here. Peace.

Maybe you have a unique setup for this, I don't know.
All I know is if I got a NASCAR and reset to default all of the settings, then set only the aerodynamics, 20 40 would run a lot faster than 50 70 at Daytona, in an online lobby, with grip reduction real, and no aids, and all that stuff.
And these aren't opinions we are arguing here. These theories we are arguing here can be totally proved. One of us here is 100% right and one of us here is 100% wrong.
Again KB if you are using a unique setup that allows you to make 50 70 go faster, then great. I'm talking about default settings for everything and only testing aerodynamics.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

For the record, despite the heated argument between the two sides, no one has posted any proof (this includes me).

I don't play GT all that often any more, but I assume at least someone in this thread does. Why not run some test laps and then upload a replay (either on youtube or just a file for people to watch on their PS3's).

The intent for this test is to prove "whether or not full downforce goes faster than minimum downforce."
I will do six tests for each setting(three in race and three with no competition/drafting) in order to gain a more accurate time(avg/mean). If i'm reading this argument correctly, I'll need to test FULL Downforce and Minimum(or a specified) amount.

I should be VERY CLEAR
1. I am doing this as a mediator
2. I will NOT take sides but rather post my videos with results and let the information speak for itself.

I will keep the results as balanced as my skill allows.
Here are the conditions:
Broken-in engine(One 2011 Impala @892HP)
Desired NASCAR car used to achieve accurate results(Impala-requested by gamerdog6482 and others)
Setups usedSetup is in the video(s)
Track(s) used Daytona (offline)
Track settingsGrip Reduction-Real, Tire Wear/Fuel Consumption-ON, Damage-OFF
Assist(s) SettingsABS 1
Tires Racing Soft
No. of Laps 10
Controller usedG27


I typically race ABS 1 because of the general consensus that this is the most accurate/authentic way of racing in GT5--aside from all assists off as some of the purists have chosen.


EDIT: This is a working list.
EDIT2: After all the information needed is collected, I estimate this to take two - three days.

Test one:
Full Downforce 50/70- Lap 4 Best time: 43.222:


Minimum Downforce 20/40-Lap 4 Best Time: 42.013



TESTER NOTES: After test one, I've already noticed the car is more stable with full downforce. I attempted to keep the same racing line with both settings. With minimum downforce, I'm noticing the back end sways left and right a couple times on corner exit. However, there is a one-second difference in best lap times(I had stability issues with minimum downforce--especially after lap 5).

Please be aware test one is not the final test. Generally, I'm not seeing much of a difference in lap times after 10 laps with each setting. However--as already stated by a few, with full downforce, the tires do last longer as compared to minimum downforce. As was already stated, the top speed on the straights(min downforce) is higher. The fastest speed out of corner exit I could achieve with these settings was approximately 208mph.
Test two FULL DOWNFORCE Extreme Series NASCAR Series--8th Place.
Lap 6 Best Time:41.686


MINIMUM DOWNFORCE Extreme Series NASCAR Series--ALMOST 1st Place
Lap 4 Best Time: 41.903


Does dirty air exist in GT5?
I don't believe so as with full downforce, on corner exit and while drafting, I noticed no loss in traction.

Tester notes Test Two:While drafting behind one or two cars, I noticed on corner entry at high speed, the car is thrown to the wall, and I must adjust the steering with at least 10-15 degrees counter-steer. What would cause this?

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Maybe you have a unique setup for this, I don't know.
All I know is if I got a NASCAR and reset to default all of the settings, then set only the aerodynamics, 20 40 would run a lot faster than 50 70 at Daytona, in an online lobby, with grip reduction real, and no aids, and all that stuff.
And these aren't opinions we are arguing here. These theories we are arguing here can be totally proved. One of us here is 100% right and one of us here is 100% wrong.
Again KB if you are using a unique setup that allows you to make 50 70 go faster, then great. I'm talking about default settings for everything and only testing aerodynamics.

Yes, I do have a setup under my car that I used for the test but the setup was the same for both tests, except for the aero of course. Maybe thats where the confusion set in. My tests I did was when I was going for the fastest hotlap so yes, I did have my speed setup on my car. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Won't let me edit my post for some reason, but anyway, I found my test results from my testing and my best online solo lap time is 41.513. This was online, solo run in my lounge. Tire wear/fuel consumption was ON, grip set to real, racing soft tires. Everything else was off and it was done on lap 3 as I only did 5 lap stints before starting over each time. I had tire wear/fuel consumption on because with it off, times are going to be faster and I was going for race conditions. Again, sorry for my misunderstanding on how you guys were testing. Peace.

 

[Knelly]

Yeah, more downforce does increase tyre longevity and make the car a little more planted to the ground, it helps in dirty air and in corners.

THEN USE IT

 

[Exorcet]

Interesting initial results. The speed difference on the straights was much bigger than I remember it being, and the downforce doesn't seem to help with cornering speed at all. From that video, the only thing that matter in this situation is the drag.

Repeatable ~1 second lap differences are a pretty good indication of which is faster stand alone. At the very least, downforce settings on RS NASCAR races aren't clear cut.

 

[Jaywalker]

In my experience, downforce sucks.

 

[Santos i7]

I wonder if there would still be a 1 second difference if drafting was factored in.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Maybe online physics don't take into account the drag caused by downforce but the offline physics do. It seems that if you can go flat out around the corners with minimum downforce then all that extra downforce does more harm than good on a hot lap.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Maybe online physics don't take into account the drag caused by downforce but the offline physics do. It seems that if you can go flat out around the corners with minimum downforce then all that extra downforce does more harm than good on a hot lap.

My hotlap time above was done with full aero. Anything less, the car was just getting too lose in the turns causing a loss of time. Again tho, I had a full setup on my car. The default setup for these cars is garbage. Also, I am only speaking about online as I don't ever bother doing any testing for offline as all of my hotlapping is done online.

 

[Auraxir]

i made my impala go 380km/h and still wasn't able to beat the first 3

 

[RedPartyhat]

i made my impala go 380km/h and still wasn't able to beat the first 3

Are you talking about the Jeff Gordan Nascar challenge?

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

i made my impala go 380km/h and still wasn't able to beat the first 3

Many drivers, who are more skilled than I, recommend staying/drafting around 2nd or 3rd place until the end of lap 10. Then as the two or three of the leaders(including yourself) round the last turn, slingshot yourself past for the win. It's not easy but I wish you the best on your road to victory.

EDIT: To answer your original question of whether or not the AI in NASCAR is ridiculous: After about 100 restarts due to the AI using the pit-manuever on my car, YES the AI is ridiculous. Caveat: I've found if I use the overhead rear bumper cam I can check behind me rather quickly. The inside view gives a pretty awesome experience when you check behind you or simply while driving!

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Your last two tests don't really prove anything as you are now bringing skill level into play. I can run that same race with full aero and win 4 out of 5 times where a lesser skilled person is gonna have a harder time winning. I'll buy into your first set of tests, but the second set, not at all. My whole arguement tho has been about the online side of things so these tests really mean little to me. Kudos to you tho for taking the time to do all these tests. Peace.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Your last two tests don't really prove anything as you are now bringing skill level into play. I can run that same race with full aero and win 4 out of 5 times where a lesser skilled person is gonna have a harder time winning. I'll buy into your first set of tests, but the second set, not at all. My whole arguement tho has been about the online side of things so these tests really mean little to me. Kudos to you tho for taking the time to do all these tests. Peace.

I must agree. I felt much more confident in the second video. However, if anyone noticed, it was much easier for me to stay in first with full downforce. I do apologize for the discrepancy created by my skill level.

 

[Exorcet]

I don't think skill level has that much to do with it. More important than absolute skill was the fact that driver skill was the same in all tests. I was pretty surprised at the 8th place finish, but watching your videos reminded me about PD's horrible decision to force ASM (slow mode) on in the race, which is something I completely forgot about.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

I don't think skill level has that much to do with it. More important than absolute skill was the fact that driver skill was the same in all tests. I was pretty surprised at the 8th place finish, but watching your videos reminded me about PD's horrible decision to force ASM (slow mode) on in the race, which is something I completely forgot about.

While the variable of driver skill was constant, I did finish horribly and I apologize. Force ASM is a pain but, yes, winning wasn't the intent. Does anything stand out in contrast with the results(max downforce vs. min downforce) on either video? I'm tempted to do a video at "medium" downforce simply to see if there is a balance which may be achieved for the best results(with my skill level and driving style[if any AMIRIGHT?!] in mind)

 

[Exorcet]

While the variable of driver skill was constant, I did finish horribly and I apologize. Force ASM is a pain but, yes, winning wasn't the intent. Does anything stand out in contrast with the results(max downforce vs. min downforce) on either video? I'm tempted to do a video at "medium" downforce simply to see if there is a balance which may be achieved for the best results(with my skill level and driving style[if any AMIRIGHT?!] in mind)

Well, the most standout things so far are the spins, which make it really hard to use the race videos as evidence. Full downforce was doing fine until the crash broke the field in two. Without a drafting partner, and because GT puts faster AI in front, there was no way for you to catch up.

Max downforce did produce the fastest lap in the race, but it wasn't a super huge gap. Could you average the lap times, excluding the spins?

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Well, the most standout things so far are the spins, which make it really hard to use the race videos as evidence. Full downforce was doing fine until the crash broke the field in two. Without a drafting partner, and because GT puts faster AI in front, there was no way for you to catch up.

Max downforce did produce the fastest lap in the race, but it wasn't a super huge gap. Could you average the lap times, excluding the spins?

I plan to do three tests of each (hot laps and races). I'm hoping the avg/mean of all the lap times will give a more accurate picture(hot laps being separate from races in the data). I do apologize for the crash as it seemed I was doing well until then. Three tenths of a second in my opinion seems to come down to my skill or lack thereof+drafting time+AI driver error+car setup inconsistences(same setup but possibly not a good one)

 

[Auraxir]

Are you talking about the Jeff Gordan Nascar challenge?

nope, i'm talking about the extreme event lvl 22 i think

 

[roadster slick]

I have just finished the race in 1st place by a margin of 0.005 suffice to say my heart is still beating fast, it was the most exciting race i've had too date, really got a sense of satisfaction out of it :-)

I done it with no change regarding downforce etc. All I done was adjust the transmission too 261mph.

Got the 'within one hundredth' trophy aswell so happy days

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

OP, I was hoping this might show you a possible way you might complete this race:


Here are the settings for this race:
All Parts installed
870HP
Downforce: 27/47
LSD:50/45/40
Ride Height: F(+)15 R(-)15
Spring Rate: 18.4/18.5
Dampers (Extension): 8/7
Dampers (Compression): 7/8
Anti-Roll Bars: 4/4
Brake Balance:0/0

Camber: 1.8/1.8
Toe angle: 0.0/0.15

 

[Argon]

For those that have said it's the hardest to win I 100% agree. The only way I finally won the race after so many failed attempts was to stay out of trouble and tail-gate the lead car from lap 3 right to the last lap then slingshot by him on the last corner.

Thought my heart was going to explode before the race ended, oh and I had default downforce set on the car but I'm not sure that helped or hindered as it was drafting that helped me win.