Kimi talks with Williams? - No. Signs with Lotus Renault for 2012

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Hologram777, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    The problem is that his attitude won't exactly endear him to Formula 1 teams. He could have easily continued under super-rally rules - the car appears to have been immobilised rather than damaged - but he just gave up straight away. Any team considering signing him is not going to take that as a good omen; what's going to happen if his car breaks down in free practice? Will he just go home?

    It's also interesting that Raikkonen and Solberg are telling two very different stories about what happened:
     
  2. Bigbazz

    Bigbazz

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    Reading the above post I noticed you (ardius) mentioned Romain Grosjean as a "Real Deal" driver, he drove in 2009 and was terrible, he simply was not good enough to be driving in F1.
     
  3. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    To be fair, Grosjean was thrown into a team that revolved around Alonso and was expected to find his own way - if a driver was struggling within the team, Flavio Briatore expected him to address his issues on his own and would not divert resources away from Alonso unless that driver demonstrated a turn-around in form; in 2009, I got the sense that he only ran a second car because he had to. There was virtually no support for the team's second driver (except when Alonso went to McLaren). The Renault R29 was an absolute dog of a car, and it's a testament to Alonso's ability that he managed to make the team look anything less than silly. Basically, Grosjean got handed the shortest end of the stick that anyone in the sport had been offered in quite some time. He's now got the support from within Renault (since they're closely affiliated with DAMS in GP2), so the transition will be easier on him.
     
  4. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Premium

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    Of course, but I will leave you with this (regarding Kimi's performance/s in 09)...

    Andrea Stella: "Brawn has dominated this season with the best car but since summer Lewis Hamilton and Kimi have collected most points. It’s not because of the cars but it’s based on the fact that Lewis and Kimi have been the best drivers of the series."

    Jonathan Noble: "One team insider suggested that, looking at the data, Raikkonen has once again been doing things in the cockpit of a very difficult car that they can hardly believe. He is going beyond what, theoretically, the F60 would be capable of in normal hands as though the Finn’s last great act of defiance is to prove to his former bosses that they were wrong."

    James Allen:
    "His performances were astonishing. Even the Ferrari engineers don’t fully understand how he managed to get some of the podiums he did."

    prisonermonkeys: Raikkonen's 2009 season was absolutely abysmal; he gave no reason why he should return to the sport at all, much less with Red Bull.

    Notice the trend?

    +1
     
  5. zippy_the_cat

    zippy_the_cat

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    Given what you identify as the reason for Williams' decline, it would be more logical for the team to spend its limited dollars on a top-flight aerodynamicist than on a top-line veteran driver.
     
  6. Sach

    Sach

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    I agree with this, but I think they need a little of both. They certainly need a top notch aero guy to get them sorted out, but they also need some kind of driver who can really communicate with that aero guy to get the most out of the car. It's one thing to set up aero at different wind speeds, but in a race you're throwing the car into corners, in dirty air, etc. The right kind of car-sensitive driver is going to be able to help the aero guy out in that situation.
     
  7. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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    That was pretty much Flavio in a nutshell; being the number two driver with Briatore at the helm has almost always been career suicide. It's like getting the second Ferrari, but with less prestige. The only example that reverses this was the 2004 Renault team: Trulli had a lot of momentum, and somewhere after his shunt in the British GP, he became persona non grata, despite winning at Monaco. Then he put all the team's efforts into Alonso's car.

    I wouldn't mind seeing Raikkonen back in F1. How well will he do...who knows? Schumacher hasn't hit winning form again, so leaving and returning is not easy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  8. Hun200kmh

    Hun200kmh

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    I remember a brazilian guy I used to chat&race online (in the game Ferrari Challenge, GT5P didn't have voice chat) talking about Piquet Jr. and how greatly talented he was and that it was a disgrace what had happened to him. Of course he agreed that Piquet had shown serious lack of self-respect (I'm lacking a better word, sorry), but his point was that he was a great driver gone wrong.

    Thinking about Grosjean and how good he supposedly is ... I wonder what Piquet Jr. could have been with a bit more luck.
     
  9. toyotsupra

    toyotsupra Premium

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    Kimi to Williams for 2012 season make it happen please
     
  10. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Alonso was one of the drivers Braitore managed, though given the way he treated second drivers at Renault, Briatore probably only managed Alonso exclusively. I think Briatore liked to ride Alonso's coat-tails a little, probably thinking that the team principals and driver managers were just as important as the drivers. He obviously had a very inflated opinion of himself; he always accused the sport of "going in the wrong direction" whenever Renault stopped winning. I'm surprised Renault kept him around as long as they did - it's little surprise that the Singapore episode happened.

    Sure, let me just wave my magic wand and ... crap. Okay, Kimi will be racing for Williams in 2012. But, uh, he prefers to be known as Kimberly Raikkonen now. Is that okay with you?
     
  11. toyotsupra

    toyotsupra Premium

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    Sure
     
  12. Bigbazz

    Bigbazz

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    After all this, why do people want to see Kimi in a Williams? So he can show that despite his inability to really do much useful in rallying and moaning a lot in NASCAR Nationwide, that he's able to push the Williams car past its limits and go a little bit faster than maldonado, which will still leave him scraping for points let alone wins?
     
  13. Anghammarad

    Anghammarad Premium

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    Because I'd rather see one of the very best drivers race an F1 car than make a left turn in a truck.
     
  14. Peter.

    Peter.

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    What i'm seeing here is that, if Kimi wanted a comeback, chances are he wouldn't be demanding an expensive contract, and in fact, may not even demand much money at all, as no teals want him at the moment. However, having Kimi in the team will most certainly attract a lot more attention to the team, which in turn may provide them with some extra sponsorship payment and/or some new sponsors joining the team.
     
  15. Small_Fryz

    Small_Fryz Premium

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    :lol:
     
  16. Grand Prix

    Grand Prix Premium

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    A Finnish gal named Kimberly Raikonnen that drinks vodka and falls off of yachts?


    Bring it on!
     
  17. Small_Fryz

    Small_Fryz Premium

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    and a F1 world champion!!

    Dayumm!! sign me up now!!?!!?!?!

    *looks for plane ticket to Finland*
     
  18. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Bear in mind that, until five hours ago, she was in fact a he.
     
  19. CarolinaBlue704

    CarolinaBlue704

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    I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't like to see Kimi back in Formula 1. 6 World Champions on one grid. That would be great!
     
  20. Sach

    Sach

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    Indeed. [​IMG]
     
  21. toyotsupra

    toyotsupra Premium

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    Because I believe he is still one of the fastest drivers in f1 and very talented driver.
     
  22. Peter.

    Peter.

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    But even if he is oh-so talented, he doesn't have a car that could get him up there with the other champions.
     
  23. Bigbazz

    Bigbazz

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    Thats my point, it's like the Michael Schumacher situation, only that Michael has atleast a half decent car, the Williams is far from good enough for Kimi to get anywhere. This isnt the same as any other driver, Kimi is known for being lazy, he was lazy in rallying and he gave up on NASCAR the instant things got tough. Lets not forget when he left F1, though leaving Ferrari was not his own choice, ending his career was.

    What happens when he goes to Williams? He gets bored after 2 races and decides not to turn up because he can't win? I would not be surprised.
     
  24. Greycap

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    Oh yes, it's a certain sign of laziness that he formed his own team to keep driving when Citroën didn't want to continue his contract, a team in which he's actually finished higher than "real" WRC drivers such as Matthew Wilson and Khalid Al Qassimi on several occasions. If you had done your homework about his NASCAR "career" you'd know he was never going to drive a full series, just a couple of races. And about things getting tough over there, he finished his first race in the 15th place after having qualified 31st with just about zero experience in NASCAR and having never seen a 1.5-mile oval before that Friday.

    It's amazing how people only remember the last season he drove in F1 and forget that it was a season during which the car didn't suit him at all. Nobody drives such a car to the podium four times in a row without motivation and some serious skill, that's for sure.
     
  25. Bigbazz

    Bigbazz

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    I watched both his NASCAR races, he did well in the truck race and did hopelessly in the Nationwide and then gave up on it. He didnt even bother to to show up for some of the rally stages. I'm not sure if you realise how much of a big thing was made of Kimi joining NASCAR, and i'm pretty sure there seemed to be hopes on both sides that it was a career move, Kimi quickly gave up on that after Nationwide proved too tough for him.

    Nobody doubts Kimi's skill in an F1 car, his motivation is in the money though, not in the driving.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  26. Anghammarad

    Anghammarad Premium

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    That is just not correct. His motivation is in driving a race car and not the circus surrounding it.
     
  27. Bigbazz

    Bigbazz

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    Kimi left F1 because

    1. he got dumped from Ferrari
    2. Other teams wouldn't pay him what he wanted.


    Motivation was money.
     
  28. toyotsupra

    toyotsupra Premium

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    And he wanted to try rallying
     
  29. Anghammarad

    Anghammarad Premium

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    I'm prepared to bet one of my golf putters (not the good one of course) that if he only had to drive the car without all the media frenzy and what not surrounding F1 he would be willing to do it for less money than Ricciardo is getting. It was because he had to do all the sponsor things, which he loathed, that he demanded the high pay check.
     
  30. prisonermonkeys

    prisonermonkeys Premium

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    Not quite. He was paid a significant amount of money by Ferrari to terminate his contract. As is their wont, Ferrari "encouraged" him to do something else for a season. But rather than simply look like he was taking the money and running, I suspect Raikkonen deliberately priced himself out of the market to make it look like he was leaving Formula 1 because he couldn't find a seat rather than because he was paid off.