Let's revisit counter-steering assist

[gt5 staff]

HI

Let me come with my opinion too, I´m S/S driver Driver name "Eliasbarca6"

Sometimes I use CSA and TCS, but not always. What i have tested is that you are faster without using CSA and thats why most off the top 10 is not using it, dont make that error and belive its because they dont want too use the aid. Too be a top 10 driver mostly you have to do what ever it takes to have the best lap. You can see how they a cutting corners and if they were faster with CSA on, trust me they will use it.
With CSA on you dont have the full control of the car and there is sometimes problem to correct the car properly for some corners.

We all have favorite tracks and cars where we are good. And in my favorite track and car, no one can beat me because of that they use CSA and I don´t.
And if some one beats me, trust me it happens "to many Aliens", they can do it hole day long with or without CSA.

But all that it´s reserved fro S driver, and if you are A driver specially low A or lower than that. CSA will make you seems like better driver in most cases.

In some races i like people use CSA even if i don´t use it. When you have the title S driver it does not mean you are perfect for all tracks and cars, I like that people use it it to drive stable clean and not screw up every corner when specially they are on a track that they cant handle for perfection, so we can have some good races. But again I can´t loose to someone because they use AID and I don´t. That means that every one that have a better position than me when the race is finished is better driver than me.

On Bathurst i´m really bad, there I always use CSA in GR.3 cars just to be more stable and have the chance not to be lapped :-) and not ruin other drivers race.

Alot of the people is saying the others drives like **** and you want to remove the CSA option for those people?

 

[JacksHerer]

I would rather CSA not exist in the game, if it didn't exist then people wouldn't rely on it and they would just get better or get beat by people that did get better.

CSA wouldn't be so much of a problem if it at least slowed the vehicle down every time it was activated.

I would like AIMBOT in BF because I can't aim to save my life, would that ruin the game for all the good players? yes of course it would, would they be forced to switch the aimbot on? most likely they would go play a game that has better competition.

 

[Jumbone1]

CSA wouldn't be so much of a problem if it at least slowed the vehicle down every time it was activated.

That's the main point, the other assists slow you down, where as CSA on strong can improve the balance of the car and give a faster lap time, I'm talking about pad users here.

A good test for this is the Alfa 4C road car on sport hards. What CSA is doing is limiting the available steering angle for you and correcting oversteer, this helps through the corners and on corner exits improving traction. It basically means you can whack the stick over full left/right when cornering and CSA will sort it out. No skill or finesse with the steering is required.

 

[JacksHerer]

Yep it's the same with a wheel.
It takes effort and practice to get good at a Sport

 

[TheGeologist]

GTA online splits players who use free aim vs lock on, but I'm not sure GTS can afford to split the fan base. If they did, then where would they draw the line? Assists on vs off? Still doesn't solve the issue at hand.

I don't think that would work.

 

[JacksHerer]

Yeh that GTA thing does my head in, I return to a lock on room and my settings still stuck on free aim

The only solution for GTS is to remove CSA from the game or make it slower, so that the risk vs gain is more equal.

 

[Finflash]

I think you guys forget that oversteer is a good thing sometimes and could make you faster through a corner, CSA does hinder you at certain points.

At the end, grip level is the same for everyone, it's up to you how you want use that grip. Two different drivers could be on the limit for the whole lap but the laptime could be massively different. CSA does not make that difference.

 

[Robben]

I think you guys forget that oversteer is a good thing sometimes and could make you faster through a corner, CSA does hinder you at certain points.

At the end, grip level is the same for everyone, it's up to you how you want use that grip. Two different drivers could be on the limit for the whole lap but the laptime could be massively different. CSA does not make that difference.

This is true. For example on BB raceway with CSA on last night, you can't go tight enough to the inside on T2 to successfully make T3 as CSA doesn't let you turn in as hard. Obviously this is an extreme example but it proves the limitations of having it on...

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

This is an interesting take. I would say it could definitely lead to more ballsy maneuvers during battles.

Could compare it to boxing. When you wrap your hands and put on gloves, suddenly your hands are well protected and you can send punches one after another without worrying to much about the impact's effect on your hands or wrists.

If you were to fight bare knuckle suddenly you'd have to be a lot more careful because you hands are fragile and if you hit some strong bone at a bad angle - *SNAP*.

So yeah, driving without aids is exactly like bareknuckle fighting.

Seriously bro

That's a rather fitting analogy, actually. I haven't had many chances to even try to punch while everyone else has taken multiple swipes of my rear bumper.

 

[fastone371]

Oh and I use a controller and use automatic ! ( no clutch shifting is fake kids)

Unless something has gone backwards in the last 10 years that I dont know about who uses a clutch to shift in race cars??? Serious question.

 

[John Crellin]

That's a rather fitting analogy, actually. I haven't had many chances to even try to punch while everyone else has taken multiple swipes of my rear bumper.

Not a bad analogy at all, because when some one punches you bare knuckles it also has a lot more impact on you too. For instance in cage fighting they wear 8mm gloves instead of the 16oz boxing gloves which only serve to protect the opponent from facial tears and broken skulls, it does almost nothing for the fighter wearing them. The wraps protect against hand fractures. So yeah, Thats why you would want the gloves, to protect the opponent from you.

 

[DriftMethod]

I don't agree with the banning of any assists for DR S (or any other group.) Or the need for it to be some super exclusive group. DR S is a small percentage of players as is and from my experience there is rarely a race with more than a few DR S anyway (other than some of the FIA races.) DR and SR are mainly used for matching. I could understand that argument if a large amount of the players are at DR S, but that's just not the situation.

I've also read a bunch of complaints that penalties are too harsh for DR S. Some people are losing motivation to race, because one penalty (which may not even be their fault) can cost them a lot of DR points when they get beat by lower rated players, but can only win a handful of points against lower rated players. Making it harder to get to DR S and taking away any safety net from using assists could make their complaints even worse, since without the aids we can expect more incidents that cause penalties.

While that might not be the concern of people wanting to remove CSA from DR S, it should be considered that by catering to your experience, it might be making someone else's experience worse.

Racing is all about compromise. PD had to make a lot of compromises to make the game enjoyable for everyone and players have to allow compromises from their own personal ideal experience. So I hope PD spend their time on something everyone can agree on, like adding more tracks!

 

[simsimsheree]

The comparison with SRF from GT6 is appropriate, and particularly plays into my observation about how PD gradually disallowed certain aids as the player base gradually thinned out and the bashers left for greener pastures.

I seem to remember this same debate years ago about SRF, being another totally fictitious aid with no real life analogy (no matter how poorly ABS and TCS are implemented, we at least have the consolation of knowing it actually exists IRL). And, it seemed, as soon as PD acknowledged that the player base had changed to more hardcore players, SRF started to be banned in more and more online racing. Certainly, no serious League allowed it, and generally, the allowing of SRF in a room gave you a good indication of the lack of skill in there!

I'm certainly wondering how the FIA and PD are going to deal with it for whatever feeds into the new GT Academy. My bet is, it will be disallowed, like SRF was. So, for everyone currently using CSA as a crutch for stability, be warned! There's a good chance you won't be able to use it in a while. Might as well get used to not using it!

 

[FPV MIC]

The comparison with SRF from GT6 is appropriate, and particularly plays into my observation about how PD gradually disallowed certain aids as the player base gradually thinned out and the bashers left for greener pastures.

I seem to remember this same debate years ago about SRF, being another totally fictitious aid with no real life analogy (no matter how poorly ABS and TCS are implemented, we at least have the consolation of knowing it actually exists IRL). And, it seemed, as soon as PD acknowledged that the player base had changed to more hardcore players, SRF started to be banned in more and more online racing. Certainly, no serious League allowed it, and generally, the allowing of SRF in a room gave you a good indication of the lack of skill in there!

I'm certainly wondering how the FIA and PD are going to deal with it for whatever feeds into the new GT Academy. My bet is, it will be disallowed, like SRF was. So, for everyone currently using CSA as a crutch for stability, be warned! There's a good chance you won't be able to use it in a while. Might as well get used to not using it!

SRF and CSA are not even remotely comparable (apart from being made up aids). SRF made a huge difference in lap times, something that CSA does not do. CSA and Active Steering on the other hand are much more comparable, and AS was never disallowed.

 

[simsimsheree]

CSA makes a huge difference in lap times to people unable to do a clean lap or race without it...

I would also have expected that top drivers using SRF could get a bigger gap between their times and lower tier drivers also using it.

 

[FPV MIC]

CSA makes a huge difference in lap times to people unable to do a clean lap or race without it...

Not even close to what SRF did.

Edit in reply to your ninja edit: Yes they could. The only way to compete with a top racer using SRF was to use SRF yourself (if you yourself are a top racer), which is not the case with CSA.

 

[DriftMethod]

CSA makes a huge difference in lap times to people unable to do a clean lap or race without it...

I think you are overestimating CSA. TCS is a game changer for people who can't do a clean lap without it. CSA is such a minor aid in comparison.

 

[_ApexPredator]

CSA makes a huge difference in lap times to people unable to do a clean lap or race without it...

Yes, but

Not even close to what SRF did.

Exactly. SRF was extra grip that isn't otherwise there - which meant a lot of extra lap time could be found.

CSA doesn't unlock extra time, it just allows some to drive with greater consistency which yes will often make them faster over a race duration than they would be without it, but it isn't giving them extra lap time.

 

[simsimsheree]

At the top? Yes, probably. Lower down, no, it's a massive aid for those that can't control their car without it.

But that kind of plays into the hands of those saying SR:S shouldn't get it. I mean, if it doesn't make you faster, why have it at ALL..?

 

[Leggacy]

Unless something has gone backwards in the last 10 years that I dont know about who uses a clutch to shift in race cars??? Serious question.

I’ve used stick and clutch on a daily race and won. I saved the replay look in my library if you want PSN ID TheLeggacy. Some of the older cars take ages to change gear. I did a race with the Toyota 2000GT’s I could change much faster than with paddles but it’s a double edged sword ⚔️ If you’re even slightly out with the clutch you end up in neutral, which sucks because you have to re-shift and probably miss it again. I don’t use the shifter online in serious races usually but it’s fun to use the actual shifting method of the car I’m driving.
As for CSA if you want a more sim like experience don’t use it, if you’re an arcade player you probably want this on. I would like them to ban this from sport races as it is not a real world thing.

 

[Spurgy 777]

why have it at ALL..?

Probably because it makes some cars more enjoyable to drive if they're not trying to kill you as much. Better question is if it doesn't make much difference to lap times, why do you care if we have it on or not? Can't everyone just be left to play they game how they want to play it?

 

[_ApexPredator]

Lower down it's a massive aid for those that can't control their car without it.
But that kind of plays into the hands of those saying SR:S shouldn't get it. I mean, if it doesn't make you faster, why have it at ALL..?

:S For the case you made in the first half of your quote.

You could strip aids from DR:S and honestly the majority wouldn't care, the Top 10 boards would look pretty much the same, I just don't really see the need and you'd make it very difficult for DS4 players to compete, which would make a lot of gamers very salty and then I'm sure instead of "CSA OP" threads we'd see "PD trying to make us all buy wheels!".

 

[Knukel]

Has anyone done time/handling comparison with a road car on CH tyres?
Probably yes, but i've only managed to find results done with race cars.

 

[KingFrog]

Unless something has gone backwards in the last 10 years that I dont know about who uses a clutch to shift in race cars??? Serious question.

I was unaware every single car in the game was a race car.

 

[simsimsheree]

:S For the case you made in the first half of your quote.

You could strip aids from DR:S and honestly the majority wouldn't care, the Top 10 boards would look pretty much the same, I just don't really see the need and you'd make it very difficult for DS4 players to compete, which would make a lot of gamers very salty and then I'm sure instead of "CSA OP" threads we'd see "PD trying to make us all buy wheels!".

SRF made a massive difference for pad players and low skill wheel users. Yet we didn't see the angst over it when PD finally did ban it from certain challenges. Perhaps PD wasn't trying to delude the lower level players that they deserved to race the big boys on an equal footing back then.

And I was top 10-20% in time trials back then on a wheel without aids, and regularly got beat by good pad players. Somehow, they didn't need any more aids than I had. I guess today's players aren't the men we used to be..? LOL

 

[FPV MIC]

SRF made a massive difference for everyone, not just pad players and low skill wheel users.

FTFY

 

[simsimsheree]

FTFY

Is it against AUP to deliberately misquote someone?

The point you are missing is that SRF made a much larger % difference for bad players than it did for good. People without SRF that couldn't get a clean lap in suddenly could. People that could get a clean lap in only got the time advantage of the aid.

Sound familiar?

CSA only makes a minor improvement (if any) for players that can control their car without it (whether wheel or pad). CSA makes a massive difference for someone regularly spinning out, or losing major traction in corner out events.

How is anyone ignoring this?

 

[FPV MIC]

Is it against AUP to deliberately misquote someone?

I wrote that I changed it.

The point you are missing is that SRF made a much larger % difference for bad players than it did for good. People without SRF that couldn't get a clean lap in suddenly could. People that could get a clean lap in only got the time advantage of the aid.

Sound familiar?

CSA only makes a minor improvement (if any) for players that can control their car without it (whether wheel or pad). CSA makes a massive difference for someone regularly spinning out, or losing major traction in corner out events.

How is anyone ignoring this?

The point you seem to be missing is that in no way is SRF anywhere near the same as CSA for anyone at all. If you were comparing Active Steering to CSA you'd be much closer to the mark. CSA doesn't cut anything from my times and neither did AS, but SRF in GT6 could cut several seconds off of a very short track like Tsukuba for everyone, not just the very fast.

I don't know if you were around for the GT6 Quick Matches or for the SRF bug that plagued them, but I was and can tell you that ordinary people were doing extraordinary things with the help of the SRF bug, much like what the Grip Bug was like in GT Sport, and far above anything that could be achieved with CSA.

 

[Stotty]

CSA works just the same as Active Steering in GT6... and neither have anything like the impact SRF had... SRF increased the overall grip and traction levels by a massive amount... like running tyres 2-3 grades higher.

CSA does not increase grip levels... cars do not corner faster with CSA enabled.

 

[Twissy]

I have used CSA ever since buying GT sport. I just like the way it feels and I feel like I am more connected to what the car is doing for some reason. It seems to give me the feeling and car control from back in the GT5 & GT6 days.

With CSA on, the force feedback on the G29 feels more solid (I used to run FFB 10 on the older GT's) and I have more control of the car rather than with it turned off. It may be a few tenths slower over a single lap but i'm fine with that for the added consistency I get over a longer race.

I have tried to run without the CSA in races and I am nowhere near as quick or consistent.

I have noticed with CSA turned on in the tyre wear and fuel consumption races that the front tyres take an absolute beating as opposed to people that run with it off. This is purely from just looking at replays of my races.

However I suppose it all depends what works for you, CSA seems to work for me so will continue to use it.