Like/dislike

[Hotspitta]

Physics in Forza 3 are just weird IMO.

Forza isn't weird, you just have to realise that the tyre simulation is very well done.Get you tyres warmed up and you will see your laptimes and grip increas. offcourse the tyres are cold in the first lap.. Optimal temperature 92 degrees celcius.👍

Another important thing in forza is that the skidmarks and dark spots on the road and the apex are more grippy than the lighter parts off the track. This is a very important aspect.

 

[zr1chris]

Forza isn't weird, you just have to realise that the tyre simulation is very well done.Get you tyres warmed up and you will see your laptimes and grip increas. offcourse the tyres are cold in the first lap.. Optimal temperature 92 degrees celcius.👍

Another important thing in forza is that the skidmarks and dark spots on the road and the apex are more grippy than the lighter parts off the track. This is a very important aspect.

Yes they did do some remarkable things with tire physics in Forza 3 being tire temperature, wear, pressure and deformation but if it was done so well then why did they completely change it for Forza 4?

 

[Scaff]

The point is racing slicks shouldn't spin with only 300HP. Although I personally haven't really seen this problem to this extent. Just get allot of wheelspin when accelerating in a RWD car.

Loss of traction under acceleration is not down to horsepower.

Its down to torque and gearing, and its more than possible to generate slip on racing slicks even with a relatively low level of torque, as gear ratios will do the job quite nicely.

Take a car with racing slicks with a co-eff of 1.5 (that's Formula race slick sticky) and a curb weight of 2,200lbs.

Assume equal weight distribution and the you have 550lbs per corner, multiple by the co-eff and you have 825lbs of grip at each tyre.

Now lets say it has a 1st gear ratio of 3:1 and a final drive of 4:1, that would mean the car would have to produce only 138 ft/lbs of torque to overcome the tyres grip.

137 * 3 * 4 = 1,656 ft/lbs

1,656 ft/lbs / 2 = 828 ft/lbs at each driven wheel, which exceeds the grip level of the tyre and we have wheelspin.


Scaff

 

[zr1chris]

Loss of traction under acceleration is not down to horsepower.

Its down to torque and gearing, and its more than possible to generate slip on racing slicks even with a relatively low level of torque, as gear ratios will do the job quite nicely.

Take a car with racing slicks with a co-eff of 1.5 (that's fairly sticky) and a curb weight of 2,200lbs.

Assume equal weight distribution and the you have 550lbs per corner, multiple by the co-eff and you have 825lbs of grip at each tyre.

Now lets say it has a 1st gear ratio of 3:1 and a final drive of 4:1, that would mean the car would have to produce only 138 ft/lbs of torque to overcome the tyres grip.

137 * 3 * 4 = 1,656 ft/lbs

1,656 ft/lbs / 2 = 828 ft/lbs at each driven wheel, which exceeds the grip level of the tyre and we have wheelspin.


Scaff

It seems to happen with almost every car even without weight reduction or aggressive gearing though.

 

[Scaff]

It seems to happen with almost every car even without weight reduction or aggressive gearing though.

Which would indicate a physics issue then, as the above is how the real world works.

Lower curb weight and / or more aggressive gearing will always result in an easier loss of traction for the same torque. If that's not reflected then its a problem with the physics calculations.

Its a really simply one to test in the real world (but not on a public road), pop a car in first, nail the throttle and then step off the clutch and the rest is a lot of smoke from the tyres. Swap to 6th gear and do the same and you may even stall as you fail to generate enough force to overcome the tyres rolling resistance (that however is another calculation).

Keep in mind that's straight line acceleration however, throw in cornering forces as well and we have to get one hell of a lot more complicated with the maths. However the basic underlining fact is, all other factors remaining equal, closer gearing and/or less weight on the driven wheels = an increased chance of wheelspin.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Hotspitta]

Yes they did do some remarkable things with tire physics in Forza 3 being tire temperature, wear, pressure and deformation but if it was done so well then why did they completely change it for Forza 4?

I dont know i guess so they could say they have direct data from Pirelli? One of the most respected tyre manufacterers in the world. Currenlty supplier of the F1 teams tyres.

Good thing is all the good stuff will return including tyre Flex.

 

[rocketcaron]

Yes they did do some remarkable things with tire physics in Forza 3 being tire temperature, wear, pressure and deformation but if it was done so well then why did they completely change it for Forza 4?

You know, the ''If it ain't broke, don't fix it'' thing is limited. Like, I don't know, Porsche last GT3 was nearly perfect but they keep improving it every 2 years because they wan't to keep ahead?

Lame comparison but you get the point...?

 

[granturismohero]

That you have to have a flash just to make replays.

 

[buickgnx88]

Just picked up an Xbox, so I got the Ultimate edition (it's my first time playing a Forza game). Anywho, from what I've done so far...

Likes:
Car variety
Free painting and vinyls
Vinyl creation
Certainly the vehicle sounds
Great detailing
Customization options
Wheel brand selection
Actual part brands

Dislikes:
Event setup
Voiceover guy (was funny at first, but is now annoying every time I go to the vinyl shop)
Can't paint stock wheels
Can't paint chrome parts/wheels
Can't paint plastic parts (lol wut?)
Would be nice to be able to paint each individual part (body panels, bumpers, etc) yes you can do hood, mirrors, and spoiler, but it would be better to be able to do every individual panel.
Offshoot of above: Can't paint parts of wheels different colors/finishes. (Sure an all black wheel is nice, but black with a chrome lip would look good as well, or even a black wheel with blue lip if so inclined)
Aforementioned "gray-white"
Not enough paint finishes (matte, pearl, etc.) (Prefer Midnight Club's paint system)
Can't change wheel offset or width
Tire's look "stanced" even when made wider
Not enough wheel choices for most brands (sure there a lot of brands, but they are missing some good wheel selections)

Probably more but that's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Dislikes:
Event setup
Voiceover guy (was funny at first, but is now annoying every time I go to the vinyl shop)

You can turn him off in settings.

Can't paint stock wheels

Some you can, some you can't.

Can't paint plastic parts (lol wut?)
Would be nice to be able to paint each individual part (body panels, bumpers, etc) yes you can do hood, mirrors, and spoiler, but it would be better to be able to do every individual panel.

You can do so buy using shapes in the livery editor.

 

[ZSPaulus]

Just picked up an Xbox, so I got the Ultimate edition (it's my first time playing a Forza game). Anywho, from what I've done so far...

Likes:
Car variety
Free painting and vinyls
Vinyl creation
Certainly the vehicle sounds
Great detailing
Customization options
Wheel brand selection
Actual part brands

Dislikes:
Event setup
Voiceover guy (was funny at first, but is now annoying every time I go to the vinyl shop)
Can't paint stock wheels
Can't paint chrome parts/wheels
Can't paint plastic parts (lol wut?)
Would be nice to be able to paint each individual part (body panels, bumpers, etc) yes you can do hood, mirrors, and spoiler, but it would be better to be able to do every individual panel.
Offshoot of above: Can't paint parts of wheels different colors/finishes. (Sure an all black wheel is nice, but black with a chrome lip would look good as well, or even a black wheel with blue lip if so inclined)
Aforementioned "gray-white"
Not enough paint finishes (matte, pearl, etc.) (Prefer Midnight Club's paint system)
Can't change wheel offset or width
Tire's look "stanced" even when made wider
Not enough wheel choices for most brands (sure there a lot of brands, but they are missing some good wheel selections)

Probably more but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Weird thread this...

I'm not sure if your talking about FM3, or 4 or not about FM at all!

Not enough wheel choices for most brands
Did you have a look at the lack of rims in GT5? Most of your dislikes are not even in GT5!

But again, im not sure about what your post is about..

 

[Bogie 19th]

His post is about the thread title...likes and dislikes in Forza. It looks pretty clear to me. He has a like section in his post and a dislike section in his post.

Why even bring up GT5?!?!

 

[zr1chris]

Weird thread this...

I'm not sure if your talking about FM3, or 4 or not about FM at all!

If you read it carefully he is clearly talking about the Ultimate edition of FM3 that he just picked up recently.

 

[ZSPaulus]

If you read it carefully he is clearly talking about the Ultimate edition of FM3 that he just picked up recently.

Ok, show me where in his post i could see it was about FM3 and not 4. Because the "that i just picked up" got me all confused.

I started about GT5 because the dislike list had some stuff that i could not remember FM3 having or lacking..
Example:
Can't paint plastic parts, Can't change wheel offset or width, Not enough wheel choices for most brands

Those very much apply to GT5 for me..


But you guys carry on, no need to raise the heartbeat...

 

[zr1chris]

Ok, show me where in his post i could see it was about FM3 and not 4. Because the "that i just picked up" got me all confused.

Right here. Forza 4 isn't out yet. The Ultimate edition was first introduced in FM3 i believe.

Just picked up an Xbox, so I got the Ultimate edition (it's my first time playing a Forza game). Anywho, from what I've done so far...

 

[ZSPaulus]

Reading something, and coming to a (correct) conclusion after reading something are two very different things.

I misread (amongst a lot of other stuff) "Ultimate" for "Collectors"

but again; you guys carry on, no need to raise the heartbeat...

 

[buickgnx88]

1)You can turn him off in settings.
2)Some you can, some you can't.
3)You can do so buy using shapes in the livery editor.

1) Good to know
2) Too bad the ones you can't are the ones that I want to use the stock wheels it seems!
3) On the older muscle cars with the chrome bumpers, you can't do this. Example is the AMC Javelin, where it will work on the front spoiler, but not the front bumper itself (same with the rear and the filler panel, but not the bumper).

As for plastic parts, and the wheel stuff, I tried painting the chrome mirrors on a car and it said something about not being able to paint chrome or plastic parts. You can change the diameter of the wheels, and I suppose the width changes with the tire width, but I'd like to be able to change the tire width separate from the wheel width, as well as change the offset.

For the "not enough wheel choices", I mean within the wheel brands themselves. There are of course plenty of wheels overall to choose from, but it seems like most brands have maybe 5 wheels maximum (with many having only 2 or 3). I suppose it may depend on the car, but I want my Torque Thrust D's for my El Camino!