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Nobody is forcing you to rewind, restart race, use assists, use bspec, use the racing line, but it's there as an option to help those who are not as talented as us.
Lots of Games have it Now. Should GT 5 have a Rewind Option?
- Thread starter Simple SIM
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Nobody is forcing you to rewind, restart race, use assists, use bspec, use the racing line, but it's there as an option to help those who are not as talented as us.
- 4,323
At least there is a sliver of fact in my statement rather than you who keeps talking about of your organ where the sun never shines.
It's a special skill to face such adversity and still be able to continue on. If you devoted as much time as you do to arguing for rewind to practicing, you'd be the most amazing racer ever... lol
If by sliver you mean at least 1 person in the world that fits the example you applied to everyone, well ok, I'll give you that.
But if by sliver you mean any reasonable level of validity to your argument or logic... nope, not even a sliver.
BTW it's not helped a lot by your resorting to ad hominem attacks.
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Devedander, I find it oddly amusing that you claim to not care either way, but there's not a single freaking page without one of your posts arguing for it.
- 4,323
I am not arguing for it, I am arguing to not leave it out based on flawed logic. It doesn't effect me directly much whether it's there or not, but I think it's idiotic to leave it out based on ill informed and flawed, fear based logic.
Just like gay marriage. I am not going to be marrying any men, so it doesn't effect me, but I don't think it should be banned becuase some people are afraid it will somehow ruin their heterosexula marriages.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Ouch. It's arguably a simulator. The only modifier that can be appended to that is how detailed a simulator it is. As long as it's based on physics and doesn't defy the laws of physics within its own ruleset, it can be argued to be a sim. In Pro mode. In Standard mode, no...
As a racing game, though? It's far from the best... but much much further from the worst.
Personally agree. I hate the idea, but it won't stop me from buying GT5. Of course, the poll above is flawed in that it offers one choice for "no" and one for "I won't buy it." It's not in the same gradation as the positive choices.
They're afraid of going to Vegas and waking up with a hangover, a wedding ring, and a hairy naked stranger next to them in their motel room.
I'm not afraid of the temptation of "rewind"... but I personally feel it detracts from the game. GT5P had standard physics. Never used it. Shift has a whole bevy of driving aids... Turned absolutely everything off and went Pro from the first race. Still wasn't satisfied with it, so I finally cut my relationship after a few weeks. If I was still a newb, I would probably use rewind... as I used TCS and ASM when I was starting in GT... thus I can't truly deny less experienced and more casual players the benefit of such aid.
As a racing game, though? It's far from the best... but much much further from the worst.
Personally agree. I hate the idea, but it won't stop me from buying GT5. Of course, the poll above is flawed in that it offers one choice for "no" and one for "I won't buy it." It's not in the same gradation as the positive choices.
They're afraid of going to Vegas and waking up with a hangover, a wedding ring, and a hairy naked stranger next to them in their motel room.
I'm not afraid of the temptation of "rewind"... but I personally feel it detracts from the game. GT5P had standard physics. Never used it. Shift has a whole bevy of driving aids... Turned absolutely everything off and went Pro from the first race. Still wasn't satisfied with it, so I finally cut my relationship after a few weeks. If I was still a newb, I would probably use rewind... as I used TCS and ASM when I was starting in GT... thus I can't truly deny less experienced and more casual players the benefit of such aid.
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- 1,230
Now this is getting hilarious. Less than 10 minutes between my post and yours! Point proven.If you didn't care, you wouldn't be clogging up the thread EVERY....SINGLE.....PAGE......
And what kind of bs is "I am not arguing for it, I am arguing to not leave it out"??
I guess you could say I'm not against rewind........I'm just arguing to not have it in GT....
- 9,053
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
You know what, I hope they put it in. Just to piss off a lot of people.
Nah I'm kidding. But if PD ever does implement it (I doubt) then they should take a lot of credits away from the award at the end of the race. I'm thinking like 25% for each time the rewind feature is used, and only 4 rewinds are available.
Nah I'm kidding. But if PD ever does implement it (I doubt) then they should take a lot of credits away from the award at the end of the race. I'm thinking like 25% for each time the rewind feature is used, and only 4 rewinds are available.
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Exactly. Every sim should start you from scratch, requiring you to erase your game save.
- 7,986
- GTP_Royalton
Bogie 19th
Rewinding a mistake in Gran Turismo is not the same as dying in a FPS and starting over at some checkpoint earlier in the level or even before a boss fight.
Rewinding in a FPS is like some boss knocking you down and draining out 90% of your life, so you press the rewind button and rewind the game to before the boss hit you so this time you know what exactly will happen so you avoid the attack.
It's a crazy feature that's there to babysit casuals/noobs or whatever through the racing. There are many better, proper ways to teach casuals and noobs how to race right. Rewind is pretty much a lazy way to solve the problem
In my opinion; When you select "Start" from the menu, untill "Finish" appears there should be nothing but racing. Restarting Is just that, Re-Starting. Restarting still shows in your game stats and when you restart you've ended the race anyway.
Rewinding would break the theory that you're participating in the race you started back at the start/finish line; There is no sense of endurance and you could drive recklessly with no moderation or consistency without punishment.
Even if you didn't want to use the feature, if it was there it would undoubtedly be used. To try and explain what I'm saying, take for example: giving someone who wants to quit smoking cigeretts and telling them there is no down side for having them, other than ruining the fact they are smoking.
Sure real drivers can't restart but after you've left the menus and you are doing the driving, that's the point; you are in the simulation racing like a real driver!
However if the feature is implimented I would hope it'd be strictly a Standard Mode feature. (Which I'm sure has been mentioned before.)
Rewinding would break the theory that you're participating in the race you started back at the start/finish line; There is no sense of endurance and you could drive recklessly with no moderation or consistency without punishment.
Even if you didn't want to use the feature, if it was there it would undoubtedly be used. To try and explain what I'm saying, take for example: giving someone who wants to quit smoking cigeretts and telling them there is no down side for having them, other than ruining the fact they are smoking.
Sure real drivers can't restart but after you've left the menus and you are doing the driving, that's the point; you are in the simulation racing like a real driver!
However if the feature is implimented I would hope it'd be strictly a Standard Mode feature. (Which I'm sure has been mentioned before.)
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Zathra5_
No, you've missed the point.
Zathra5_
I have a question for you. Do you think rewind is the best way to teach casuals and noobs or whatever to drive Gran Turismo right? Do you think its an improvement over the racing line, license tests that teach you how to brake, accelerate, turn, overtake, draft etc, TC, ABS, roof/bumper/chase cam, or a sector trainer?
Bogie 19th
Not sure exactly what you mean here, but I've only played one shooter sim, Army Operations, and once you died there you were dead until everyone else died and the map reset or until the mission was accomplished and the map reset.
The same can be said with out rewind. I mean, the casuals got to GT5P without it, and there is a famous quote You learn from your mistakes.
I do not see how Rewind teaches a person anything. A person should already know if they are coming up to a turn, they need to slow down, I dont think a person needs Rewind to know that. If a person didnt slow down, or take S turn correctly, after their 1-2laps in, then something is wrong. They should already sorta remember the track layout.
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Turn 10 is basically saying to the casual, hey, with gameplay rewind you can just jump into a Lamborghini and race at high speeds with other cars and on a track you've never seen before instantly because if you miss that corner by 500 yds you can just rewind and brake earlier to make it.
Is that the proper way to introduce casuals, noobs and whatever to a racing simulator?
Or should the casuals take the path every racecar driver takes and learn by training on an empty track first?
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- Goes_To_11 GTP_GoesTo11
I really don't care how Turn 10 says to use it, nor do I care how anyone decides to use it when they are playing on there own. It won't affect anyone else since you can't use it online. I see it as a tool that I can use on a track by myself to improve my driving and my times. To me it's not about correcting a mistake when you make it but about perfecting corners or sections of track. It will give you very precise information about whether or not you are improving on a specific corner that you can not get easily by doing full laps.
- 4,323
When you say the casuals, are you talking about all the ones who got frustrated and gave up? I know plenty of these people who need more hand holding to get over the hump. So yes there is still room for more and learning tools.
BTW, you do learn from your mistakes... but why does rewind not work on this principle? Surely you won't be rewinding BEFORE you make the mistake, so you still make the mistake, the only difference is you get to practice the problem area IMMEDIATETLY after making the msitake.
Maybe it's not true for all people, but I always found that if I did my homework right after class I got it much better than if I waited until that evening or the next day.
I know there were some kinks in courses that regularly threw me because every time I would get screwed on it, it would be a whole nother lap and then ooops, caught me off guard, there's the turn again, too late for me to think about last lap and bam, guard rail again.
Rewind would have been great there, immediately practice those corners a few times, right now before everything is pushed back from a lap of other corners and other cars.
This actually did work well for grid and one of my buddies. I let him play at my house while I was out shopping, when I got back he was having a blast but frustrated on two tracks both with tricky corners late in the track. He constantly screwed them up, and being late in the track, had no time to recover position and win.
He had raced each track at least 3 or 4 times and just kept screwing the same thing up. He didn't know about rewind, so I showed him and within a few tries he had nailed one of the corners and the second one he was hitting pretty well. Result, the hour and a half I was out shopping he kept beating his head on those two corners, in 10 minutes with rewind he had them both figured out, found some good braking markers and the next race he did, he nailed one of the tracks every lap, the other track he wasn't AS good on, but he heald it well enough to keep his position and place.
Result: Rewind CAN teach SOME people in SOME circumstances better than just frustratingly running the whole lap over and over.
I didn't ask him at the time of course, but I assume if you did ask him, he would say the reason he never figured out those turns racing lap at a time is by the time he got back there, he was not in a good mindset to apply what happend 1.5 minutes and a whole lap ago.
For the record, he wasn't a very good driver and these were corners I picked up in the first couple of passes, so yes he was pretty low on the skill scale (especially considering it was GRID) but it worked for him
Maybe it's saying that to YOU, and maybe some others will take it like that. But what it's saying to ME is "hey casual driver who hates GT because it's so frustratingly hard, we hear ya and we have put something in so you can enjoy this great game as much as the other guys. Now you have some recourse for your mistakes, use it how you like. If you think its fun to rewind like crap and do crazy things just to rewind out of them, have a ball, it's your $60! But if you want to get better but just couldn't get over the hump before, here's a great way for you to work at it, use this tool to get your feet on the ground and then when you feel comfortable, take the training wheels off and see where you can go from there!"
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Well stated. You nailed it.
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I think there is something very freudian going on here... I have heard it said that those who are paranoid often fear in others behaviors they themselves have an urge to exhibit. Kind of like closet homophobes. If you hate gay people vigilantly enough for no real reason, the real reason maybe that you are in denial that you are yourself homosexual.
I wonder how well that carries here, it certainly seems believeable that those who are worried people will abuse rewind and "cheat" are ones who back in the day would have done just that and so the logic makes sense to them as that is indeed how they themselvse would have done it...
Starters, yes ppl get frustrated, but these same casuals are the ones buying up the GT series. These same causuals know how hard GT series can be. I mean every one gets frustrated when they die in games over and over, but they learn right?
Also how is any one learning from rewind? If anything, ppl wouldnt try not to make mistakes, because they know if they mess up, they can just rewind it. So I really do not see how rewind teaches anything. Where in GT, if you mess up, you reset it, but you try hard not to f up the next time.
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You are making generalizations... yes a lot of casuals are buying GT and some of them do know what they are getting into.
But I have friends who have copies of GT on the shelf that they gave up on an hour into it, just no fun, all frustartion. I have friends who won't play GT becuase it's so frustrating.
Are there casuals buying GT? Sure! But there are plenty who would buy/play GT more if it was more accessible to their level of play. Why not make it so if it doesn't hurt the rest of us? A lot of games have difficulty settings, Rallisport Challenge was great, when my GF first started playing it, she couldn't keep the car on the road during a straight away. But thanks to easy mode and cosmetic damage, she quickly got into it, she actually finished career mode on normal before I did!
Now that she has gone from total crap to able to drive in rallisport, I would love her to go from, able to drive in rallisport to enjoying the challenges of the ring in a porsche. But she GT is just too frustrating for her to do it.
The assumption that people won't try to do better because they can just rewind it is based on the assumption that people don't want to do better. Why take training wheels off bikes and stop using baseball Ts? Because you want to get better. True there are some who don't want to get better and will just use rewind forever, but they aren't ones who were going to go getting better anyway, if they don't want to use the easy tool to learn, why would they use a harder tool to learn?
How many games have you played on easy and then went back and played on a harder level? Why would you do that when you could just keep beating it on easy?
I used the example of a chess game on my compter, you can take back moves. I did it a lot in the beginning, but as I got better I do it less and less, the satisfaction of outgrowing the need is great, there is no reason this woudlnt' apply to rewind.
There are people for whom rewind will be a big plus.
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