Massive Changes Coming to Gran Turismo 7 in Response to Fan Feedback

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Scaff
I suggest you re-read the AUP before you post like this again, ad-hominin attacks are not acceptable.

I'd also suggest you find out about my history with the series before making claims you can't support. Oh look, it's me and Kaz.

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Sony is a publicly traded company, and Kaz is an employee of that company, and it's a product sold to the public, that it's not a government entity is not relevant at all.

It most certainly did originate with a need to make revenue, that's exactly why Kaz didn't get the green light for GT from the word go, but had to prove he could make a commercially viable product with Motor Toon GP first. The inclusion of MTX's in GT title also clearly illustrates that Sony expect it to be a commercially viable product (even if they could support it as a pure halo product if they wanted to).

Once again, don't assume you know about people, I'm 100% behind the idea that games can be art.

Nor does something being art preclude it from being commercially viable.
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When you say that a game isn’t a work of art, which you did, then every racing game would look and play the same or would have random, not intended variations in some form.
To understand why this answer is right you should look up what the definition of art is.
So if we hopefully can agree than that it is a work of art, then we can look why it is a „private“ work of art.
It means that it comes from people who work as private beings on this work of art and therefore have more creative freedom and do something that results out of their vision as a group not because of some official standards or rules that have to be checked. And this all comes from a private company, and yes this is important because it is a big difference to the opposite.
And even that Sony is focusing on revenue, it doesn’t change that the game is art.
Isn’t a Citroën DS19 a work of art? Doesn’t it also come from a company that wants to make revenue in the first place, but still offered the opportunity and creative freedom for engineers and designers to create something unique and beautiful like this.

Flaminio Bertoni hasn’t designed this car with revenue in the first place, it is a factor but not the origin.
So saying that Kaz started GT1 because of revenue in his mind is also just wrong, he and his team even worked secretly and on it because Sony rejected the idea. That shows for me there was a big passion behind it and Kaz even says this, he just had the need to make it more appealing to the market, that doesn’t tell about the origin of it. Saying that it originated out of financial intentions is for me not a nice thing to say and totally ignores the most important aspect of it. Just because something is succesful and mass produced, doesn’t mean that it’s just a product designed to be profitable like you already stated.
 
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VinylRichie
When you say that a game isn’t a work of art, which you did, then every racing game would look and play the same or would have random, not intended variations in some form.
To understand why this answer is right you should look up what the definition of art is.
So if we hopefully can agree than that it is a work of art, then we can look why it is a „private“ work of art.
It means that it comes from people who work as private beings on this work of art and therefore have more creative freedom and do something that results out of their vision as a group not because of some official standards or rules that have to be checked. And this all comes from a private company, and yes this is important because it is a big difference to the opposite.
And even that Sony is focusing on revenue, it doesn’t change that the game is art.
Isn’t a Citroën DS19 a work of art? Doesn’t it also come from a company that wants to make revenue in the first place, but still offered the opportunity and creative freedom for engineers and designers to create something unique and beautiful like this.

Flaminio Bertoni hasn’t designed this car with revenue in the first place, it is a factor but not the origin.
So saying that Kaz started GT1 because of revenue in his mind is also just wrong, he and his team even worked secretly and on it because Sony rejected the idea. That shows for me there was a big passion behind it and Kaz even says this, he just had the need to make it more appealing to the market, that doesn’t tell about the origin of it. Saying that it originated out of financial intentions is for me not a nice thing to say and totally ignores the most important aspect of it. Just because something is succesful and mass produced, doesn’t mean that it’s just a product designed to be profitable like you already stated.
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Quote me saying it isn't a work of art!

I said it's not a private work of art, it's first and foremost a commercial product, designed to bring in revenue and sell in quantity, that doesn't preclude it being art, but it doesn't mean it automatically qualifies either. Please also stop claiming that Sony is a private company, it's not, it's a publicly traded company, it has public shareholders it is directly answerable to.

Bertoni and the DS19 is also not a great example of art done without regard for commerce, as he was paid by Citroen for the design, and as good as the DS is as art, the Ami 6 is quite another story.

I also didn't say that Kaz started GT because of revenue, rather that for Sony (because it has to answer to those public shareholders) needed to demonstrate that it was a commercially viable product, had it failed at that, regardless of it's value as art, it would have not continued as a series.

Nor does somethings status as art preclude it from criticism, quite the opposite, art is subjective as a subject and is open to criticism, to try and dismiss criticism because it's 'art' actually undermines the argument for it being art. Art criticism is pretty much as old as art.

In my view an example within the racing genre of art produced by a private group (i.e. they are answerable only to themselves) would be Funselektor with Absolute Drift and Art of Rally.

So as to not drag this thread off-topic, and because it a subject deserving of wider discussion, I've created a thread for it.

www.gtplanet.net

Video Games as Art?

This subject kind of came up in another thread, but I wanted to give it a bit more space and expand on it here. Personally I do believe that video games can be art, and most certainly can be described as having an artistic vision, even those that also quite clearly have to achieve a financial...
www.gtplanet.net www.gtplanet.net

Tekku
So will this update happen this week or the next?
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We don't have a specific date for it.
 
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Scaff
I suggest you re-read the AUP before you post like this again, ad-hominem attacks are not acceptable.

I'd also suggest you ask about my history with the series before making claims you can't support. Oh look, it's me and Kaz.

View attachment 1130108


Sony is a publicly traded company, and Kaz is an employee of that company, and it's a product sold to the public, that it's not a government entity doesn't matter at all.

It most certainly did originate with a need to make revenue, that's exactly why Kaz didn't get the green light for GT from the word go, but had to prove he could make a commercially viable product with Motor Toon GP first. The inclusion of MTX's in GT title also clearly illustrates that Sony expect it to be a commercially viable product (even if they could support it as a pure halo product if they wanted to).

Once again, don't assume you know about people, I'm 100% behind the idea that games can be art (Flower and Journey being two of the greatest examples of it in my opinion).

Nor does something being art preclude it from being commercially viable.
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It was an opinion he clearly states that. lol
 
Scaff
No idea, so it's a good job I didn't come close to saying anything like that!
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So why reply to my comment about physics its clearly not physically possible to have a controller when they invented cars and i was replying to another member not you. So it was obvious you didnt say that.
 
ZEGOLFMAN
So why reply to my comment about physics its clearly not physically possible to have a controller when they invented cars and i was replying to another member not you. So it was obvious you didnt say that.
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It's a discussion forum, he was replying to your point, then you replied to him about something completely different which he's quesitonning.

Control input and physics are two completely different things. You can have a physics engine that adjusts to the control input or one that doesn't.
 
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ZEGOLFMAN
So why reply to my comment about physics its clearly not physically possible to have a controller when they invented cars and i was replying to another member not you. So it was obvious you didn't say that.
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As @Dave A has said, I was pointing out that the input methods used n a video game is not the same as the physics under it. The input method can have baked in assists, etc. but that doesn't change the physics.

Hence my post that input method doesn't equal physics, to which you replied with a claim I hadn't made, nor come close to making.

You also don't get to pick and chose who replies to you, that's not how discussion forums work., nor the fact that you used a strawman in your response anyway, shifting the goalposts doesn't strengthen your position.
 
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bar1010bar
These updates should be nice. Would like to see a TRACK CREATOR available in the future with the ability to upload one’s tracks to the internet and download tracks that others have created.
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I'd like to see an Event Editor which allows us to make our own GT-mode. With a track creator we could all create something special then upload it and access other players GT-modes.
 
Scaff
As @Dave A has said, I was pointing out that the input methods used n a video game is not the same as the physics under it. The input method can have baked in assists, etc. but that doesn't change the physics.

Hence my post that input method doesn't equal physics, to which you replied with a claim I hadn't made, nor come close to making.

You also don't get to pick and chose who replies to you, that's not how discussion forums work., nor the fact that you used a strawman in your response anyway, shifting the goalposts doesn't strengthen your position.
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But the original comment had nothing to do with video games other than a controller did it?
 
VinylRichie
Like I answered the other guy, yes this is a reasonable critique (and It got wrongly advertised)but it is already announced that the feature of selling cars will come in April, so what does this whole conversation should lead to in your opinion?
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You should probably read Kaz's statement again:

Finally, we also want to take the opportunity to lay out some of the near-term updates we are working on. We can’t confirm an exact date or specifics yet, but will give advance notice via www.gran-turismo.com.

  • Make it so cars can be sold.
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So yeah, selling cars isn't coming for a long ass while, knowing the work Kaz has cut out for them. And we don't know what even the form that 'selling cars' will take, and knowing this game and the developers going mask off in their blatant need to monetize the game (which Polyphony still haven't said anything about in people's rush to pat them on the back for 'listening' to the firestorm of valid complaints) it probably won't be a good system either.

But to answer your question, this whole conversation should lead to the fact that the Hagerty's partnership is functionally useless when Polyphony controls the in game economy, has made it a complete joke in order to get any sort of money at the moment, there is no way to get a good deal on cars because all cars have mileage, either buying them from zero in the Brand Central, or from buying them in the Legend Cars pavilion/UCD. There is no such thing as a 'good deal' that would come from a user generated auction house or classifieds, there is only the 'deals' that Polyphony has signed off on. And if this was truly a simulator, then it might be best to offer an actual avenue for someone to sell their vehicles for what they believe it is worth, and not simply hoping to get 25% of it through selling it to Polyphony.
Ande3200
For me at least gt has always been piece of art, don’t get that feeling when i play forza
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Almost like one knows its a game, and the other is desperately trying to be 'art' and 'real life' when they try and galaxy brain infuriating design choices.
 
As we don’t have qualifying for the Offline mode for the campaign single player mode, and you always start at the back and then it’s chase the rabbit time. Why don’t they offer where you can start , but the payout would be less the higher your grid start and higher the further down the grid you start , I’m sure i’ve seen this in a game before ? .
 
VinylRichie
When you say that a game isn’t a work of art, which you did, then every racing game would look and play the same or would have random, not intended variations in some form.
To understand why this answer is right you should look up what the definition of art is.
So if we hopefully can agree than that it is a work of art, then we can look why it is a „private“ work of art.
It means that it comes from people who work as private beings on this work of art and therefore have more creative freedom and do something that results out of their vision as a group not because of some official standards or rules that have to be checked. And this all comes from a private company, and yes this is important because it is a big difference to the opposite.
And even that Sony is focusing on revenue, it doesn’t change that the game is art.
Isn’t a Citroën DS19 a work of art? Doesn’t it also come from a company that wants to make revenue in the first place, but still offered the opportunity and creative freedom for engineers and designers to create something unique and beautiful like this.

Flaminio Bertoni hasn’t designed this car with revenue in the first place, it is a factor but not the origin.
So saying that Kaz started GT1 because of revenue in his mind is also just wrong, he and his team even worked secretly and on it because Sony rejected the idea. That shows for me there was a big passion behind it and Kaz even says this, he just had the need to make it more appealing to the market, that doesn’t tell about the origin of it. Saying that it originated out of financial intentions is for me not a nice thing to say and totally ignores the most important aspect of it. Just because something is succesful and mass produced, doesn’t mean that it’s just a product designed to be profitable like you already stated.
Click to expand...

It seems you are the one that needs to look things up and do more research before posting things. And no, your opinion is not evidence of things.
 
I want the 2 classic Mercedes, 300 sl and clk gtr, but i am afraid the clk gtr might be 8-10 million, 300 sl would be 2 million maybe, i missed the Ferrari f50 first run so when it appears i need to pull the trigger, one of my favorite ferraris ever, some of legends cars have to wait for me to its easier to earn money witch its soon seem to be, but after the april update the rotation will be quicker in the legends dealer it would be Nice of they the make 10 cars availble instead of 5 at a given time. But only time could tell,
And make roulettes availble in other ways than just daily workout, and like many have said already custom races needs to pay much more i get 3,800 credits for winning at trial mountain for 2 laps should be at least twice as much in my opinion, but i am fine with career races to pay a bit more,
 
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Famine
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Massive Changes Coming to Gran Turismo 7 in Response to Fan Feedback​

Polyphony Digital studio head Kazunori Yamauchi has made a special post on the PlayStation Blog in which he has given more information about near-future updates coming to Gran Turismo 7, as well as an in-game boost for those affected by the recent server outage...
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Hi a change I would like, is to change the traction control setting and put it in car setup as I have cars that do and don't need it, so to be able to set each car up with its own choice to have on or off would be great.. not just on all the time or off in assists.
 
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Tired Tyres
I'd like to see an Event Editor which allows us to make our own GT-mode. With a track creator we could all create something special then upload it and access other players GT-modes.
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Word!
But it'd have to include changes and options that we can't change today, like PP limits, tyre wear, tyre type, even length of race etc. With enough choices in an event editor, no need to change the current single player mode. We could just copy or slightly modify existing events and make almost every option available to players.
 
787B GT4
There's a difference between making something realistic for the sake of being true to physics VS making realistic prices for the sake of making your game insanely annoying to the people that have played your games for the past 25 years and remember full well what the prices should be.

They are cherry picking what to make realistic and what not to. You can sell cars IRL but not in GT7. How is that "realistic"? Also an NSX is half a million? R34 Skyline half a million? FD RX-7 quarter of a million? That's not realistic, that's greed. Pristine examples of all 3 of those cars can be had for 100K or under all day long.

I rest my case.
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Depends on the model, but in pristine condition, not under $100K anymore, sadly. I know of a handful of both models that sold well into the 6 figures, 2 R34s in particular which matched GT's pricing threshold. And being in the US, we both know there won't be pristine R34s coming here under $100K.

I believe you mentioned it in a follow-up post that the real issue is that the game has decided to reflect a more real-world approach to car values, but initially failed (& then took a step back after 1 update) to compensate the players with appropriate payouts to match those changes.
 
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wheelhp
I'll never get this strange talk where if something doesn't immediately work for you then it's automatically useless for everyone :lol:
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A good recent example of you being completely wrong about this, is GTS and the lack of single-player campaign in the beginning after GTS launched. With the SP career mode it is good for most if not everyone!
 
equalitus
A good recent example of you being completely wrong about this, is GTS and the lack of single-player campaign in the beginning after GTS launched. With the SP career mode it is good for most if not everyone!
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You're going to need to explain this better, I'm not following, LOL
 
wheelhp
You're going to need to explain this better, I'm not following, LOL
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A game can have several factors that satisfy most players, you were doing a binary thinking error in your arguments when you said that if something doesn't work for a person, a person that stated a disagreement of the game, then you interpreted it as something that's useless for everyone.
 
equalitus
A game can have several factors that satisfy most players, you were doing a binary thinking error in your arguments when you said that if something doesn't work for a person, a person that stated a disagreement of the game, then you interpreted it as something that's useless for everyone.
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I'm still not sure I follow you there. I was replying to scotty about ACC and you somehow used that as an opportunity to insist I was talking about GT Sport? Where did I bring up GT Sport in my conversation with Scotty? Point to it exactly dude.
 
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Johnnn
I don't have any league in GT7 and it's still OK to play. Why ACC would need any league?
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It's a league that makes a car game entertaining. Period! Because of the progression modus like medieval games and military games and etc.

wheelhp
I'm still not sure I follow you there. I was replying to scotty about ACC and you somehow used that as an opportunity to insist I was talking about GT Sport? Where did I bring up GT Sport in my conversation with Scotty? Point to it exactly dude.
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I used GTS as an example, could've used GT7 as an example as well. Like ACC both GTS/GT7 has/had obvious shortcomings in the beginning of their timeline. But it probably will be fixed or improved. But ACC cannot be 'fixed' unless it has a single-player campaign which is extremely unlikely will ever happen.
 
equalitus
I used GTS as an example, could've used GT7 as an example as well. Like ACC both GTS/GT7 has/had obvious shortcomings in the beginning of their timeline. But it probably will be fixed or improved. But ACC cannot be 'fixed' unless it has a single-player campaign which is extremely unlikely will ever happen.
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I just don't agree with Scotty and his statement that ACC is kinda "worthless". You're arguing that it is?

What makes ACC unfixable? And what needs to be fixed? What are you even on about>?

Why didn't you use GT7 as an example since this is a thread about GT7?

I'll maintain that my arguments are quick and sound enough for me to think clearly, and if you want me to change them, you're welcome to pray! Thanks
 
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