Mazda RX-7 (FD) Non-Racing Car Super Lap: Special Stage Route 5

  • Thread starter JogoAsobi
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DolHaus
Its purely down to the amount of torque available, if there is more torque than the tyres can handle then the wheels will spin, if there's less then the car will put 100% of the power to the tarmac and you will accelerate much faster. If you have a very low initial then its like an on/off switch that goes from 0-100% power every time you go off/on the gas, this will break traction due to the brutality of the transition. If you just raise the Initial slightly then it softens the power transition and makes stops it jolting the wheels loose.
Works well on tracks such a Motegi East where you are either on or off the throttle, if you try it you will find you are leaving your ghost for dead on corner exit every time. Doesn't work so well on twisty circuits where throttle inputs are less definitive because it does make the car slightly unwilling to rotate when accelerating.
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Like I said before, the more torque the better, its how you handle that torque is what's going to net you the good lap times, whether it be by the car setup and/or driving style. 👍
 
DolHaus
Its purely down to the amount of torque available, if there is more torque than the tyres can handle then the wheels will spin, if there's less then the car will put 100% of the power to the tarmac and you will accelerate much faster. If you have a very low initial then its like an on/off switch that goes from 0-100% power every time you go off/on the gas, this will break traction due to the brutality of the transition. If you just raise the Initial slightly then it softens the power transition and makes stops it jolting the wheels loose.
Works well on tracks such a Motegi East where you are either on or off the throttle, if you try it you will find you are leaving your ghost for dead on corner exit every time. Doesn't work so well on twisty circuits where throttle inputs are less definitive because it does make the car slightly unwilling to rotate when accelerating.
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Do you then tune caster inward or outward? or leave it like you "normally" would?
 
bluecharger
Do you then tune caster inward or outward? or leave it like you "normally" would?
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Do you mean the Toe angle? I wouldn't change the rear toe specifically to suit the diff settings, I would only adjust it if I felt it needed altering in the same way I would with any kind of setup.
If you are talking about Camber angle then I would always leave this at 0.0 as altering it rarely does anything beneficial in terms of grip.
 
DolHaus
Do you mean the Toe angle? I wouldn't change the rear toe specifically to suit the diff settings, I would only adjust it if I felt it needed altering in the same way I would with any kind of setup.
If you are talking about Camber angle then I would always leave this at 0.0 as altering it rarely does anything beneficial in terms of grip.
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Toe-in, sorry. I'm just imaging....you're sitting there, in the Trans Cammer....LSD at 60, flat-footed camber....if ALL that power got just the slightest sideways nudge.....:lol:

The main reason I ask is if should I try this, would you go for stability, or toe-out, or cornering (toe-in)? Have you attempted using toe-in for cornering help?
 
bluecharger
Toe-in, sorry. I'm just imaging....you're sitting there, in the Trans Cammer....LSD at 60, flat-footed camber....if ALL that power got just the slightest sideways nudge.....:lol:

The main reason I ask is if should I try this, would you go for stability, or toe-out, or cornering (toe-in)? Have you attempted using toe-in for cornering help?
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The locked Acc sort of ignores toe setting, if it can spin the tyres then it will spin them regardless of the direction they're pointing. The toe would have more effect on how the car behaved once grip was lost in this instance, toe in would make it less likely to want to rotate when travelling in a straight line.
It might not work on a big American muscle car due to the huge amount of torque they produce, there may not be tyres grippy enough to handle the launch.
I would adjust the toe to give the best balance of rotation and stability as I would with any other car. I have used a combination of front toe out and rear toe in to increase rotation in many cars, it can be particularly effective on FFs and cars with long wheelbases. As with everything else its a matter of give and take, front toe out will give you better grip on turn in but will lose grip later in the corner, you just need to find the best compromise.
 
Just spent a little time on this again using @GTP_CargoRatt's tune (thanks for posting, lovely tune 👍) but could only shave 4 tenths off for a 1:28.5xx. I had a pretty terrible first sector though which was .3 slower than my best. :yuck:
 
DolHaus
The locked Acc sort of ignores toe setting, if it can spin the tyres then it will spin them regardless of the direction they're pointing. The toe would have more effect on how the car behaved once grip was lost in this instance, toe in would make it less likely to want to rotate when travelling in a straight line.
It might not work on a big American muscle car due to the huge amount of torque they produce, there may not be tyres grippy enough to handle the launch.
I would adjust the toe to give the best balance of rotation and stability as I would with any other car. I have used a combination of front toe out and rear toe in to increase rotation in many cars, it can be particularly effective on FFs and cars with long wheelbases. As with everything else its a matter of give and take, front toe out will give you better grip on turn in but will lose grip later in the corner, you just need to find the best compromise.
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Very interesting idea and I just may see if I do anything in any way that that kind of setup would be useful. Thanks, DolHous!:cheers:
 
Got a replica based tune that should be easy to get gold, @JogoAsobi :

FEED Fujita Engineering Mazda RX7 FD3S Spirit R Type A '02 500PP

Special Build of FEED Fujita Engineering Mazda RX7 FD3S 500PP ver.
2011 Tsukuba Superlap Battle Champion Street S-Class
Comfort Soft to Sports Soft​




CAR : Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type A (FD) '02
Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Soft

Specs
Horsepower: 352 HP at 6600 RPM
Torque : 286.7 ft-lb at 5100 RPM
Power Limiter at : 94.3%
Weight: 1150 kg
Ballast : 10 kg
Ballast Position : 50
Weight Distribution : 50 / 50
Performance Points: 500


GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED IN THIS BUILD )
Aero Kits Type A
Custom Rear Wing :
Wing Mount Standard Type E
Wing Large Type D
Winglets Large Type C
Height +0 and Width +40
Wheels : +1 Inch Up ADVAN RGII in White or Silver or Black
Car Paint : Grayish Green Mica Metallic (from Toyota Supra RZ '97 ) or Titanium Gray Metallic II ( from Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS '04 )


Tuning Parts Installed :
Sports Computer
Semi Racing Exhaust
Catalytic Converter Sports
Triple Plate Clutch
Carbon Drive Shaft
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Racing Brakes Kit
Carbon Hood
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Window Weight Reduction



Suspension - FEED Fujita Engineering PRO-F09 Coilover Damper Kit
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 75 75
Spring Rate: 15.00 15.00
Dampers (Compression): 6 5
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 5
Camber Angle: 0.2 0.2 ( use zero camber all around for max grip )
Toe Angle: -0.07 0.00




LSD - FEED Fujita Engineering 2 Way LSD Low Locking Rate
Initial Torque : 22
Acceleration Sensitivity: 22
Braking Sensitivity: 22


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Corrected Ratio as in real life with custom final
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Final to 4.000
Set Auto Max Speed at 360kmh / 224mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.483
2nd 2.015
3rd 1.391
4th 1.000
5th 0.806
6th 0.675
Set Final : 5.250 - SSR5 set ( lower the final for higher speed tracks )


AERO:
REAR : 25 ( adjust to your preference, higher will result in tighter rear end, and slightly lower top speed and acceleration )


Brake Balance:
4/3 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 4/3, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I recommend to run 5/4 for ABS 1 or 1 click higher at the rear.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 4/3brake balance as starting point.

Notes :
Special build 500PP RX7 Racer based on FEED Fujita Engineering RX7 replica.

I made some changes, removing power parts and lower power to achieve 500PP mark, lighter body at 1150kg, lower rear aero at 25 for better balance of top speed and cornering.

LSD has been tweaked for easier drive and consistency, using low locking rate.
An alternate LSD setup taken from the FEED RX7 Tsukuba Superlap Battle replica :
Initial Torque : 22
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 30
The replica LSD will requires some extra control on throttle, braking and steering, and should have more potential for faster lap time.

Gearing has been shortened for SSR5.

This tune is very well balanced, able to tackle various corners with ease.

ENJOY :cheers:
 
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GTP_CargoRatt
Like I said before, the more torque the better, its how you handle that torque is what's going to net you the good lap times, whether it be by the car setup and/or driving style. 👍
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Yep! Torque is a very good thing indeed! Usable torque that is! Too much of it and it becomes unusable.
Sometimes even a well designed gearbox can't handle the torque, not to mention tyres. LSD's will have a very hard time too, so actually torque limiting electronics have to come into play.
Sometimes a less torquey car will prove faster than its super torqued opponent, simply because it can be handled.
 
yannagas
Yep! Torque is a very good thing indeed! Usable torque that is! Too much of it and it becomes unusable.
Sometimes even a well designed gearbox can't handle the torque, not to mention tyres. LSD's will have a very hard time too, so actually torque limiting electronics have to come into play.
Sometimes a less torquey car will prove faster than its super torqued opponent, simply because it can be handled.
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There's definitely a cut off point, torque is great as long as the tyres/suspension can handle it. If you're producing more torque than can be transferred to the road then its useless, just turns into wheel spin and reduced grip/stability. In this case it would be beneficial to find ways of reducing it such as selective upgrade parts selection (don't fit a turbo), power limiter and open LSD settings.
 
DolHaus
There's definitely a cut off point, torque is great as long as the tyres/suspension can handle it. If you're producing more torque than can be transferred to the road then its useless, just turns into wheel spin and reduced grip/stability. In this case it would be beneficial to find ways of reducing it such as selective upgrade parts selection (don't fit a turbo), power limiter and open LSD settings.
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Well, you do things your way and I'll keep doing things my way, 👍 seems to be working well for me anyway. I really don't think there is any right/wrong here, as I have come up with some pretty unorthodox tunes that defy any kind of logic that have worked well for me. You just have to think outside the box at times. I have learned a great deal from many great people on here and I have taken that knowledge, mixed it together to come up with my own theories and style.

And yea, I agree, there is a limit on torque, but its not as low as some might think. I'm not saying to create some torque, pavement eating monster, :lol: but I have found higher torque amounts work well for me and how I tune. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how you get there, just as long as you get there. 👍 Peace. :cheers:

EDIT: Just realized I may be over-stepping my bounds here and getting carried away with my tuning advice. I'll just go back to doing what it is I do and leave the discussion to the ones that actually know. Sorry guys. :)
 
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GTP_CargoRatt
Well, you do things your way and I'll keep doing things my way, 👍 seems to be working well for me anyway. I really don't think there is any right/wrong here, as I have come up with some pretty unorthodox tunes that defy any kind of logic that have worked well for me. You just have to think outside the box at times. I have learned a great deal from many great people on here and I have taken that knowledge, mixed it together to come up with my own theories and style.

And yea, I agree, there is a limit on torque, but its not as low as some might think. I'm not saying to create some torque, pavement eating monster, :lol: but I have found higher torque amounts work well for me and how I tune. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how you get there, just as long as you get there. 👍 Peace. :cheers:

EDIT: Just realized I may be over-stepping my bounds here and getting carried away with my tuning advice. I'll just go back to doing what it is I do and leave the discussion to the ones that actually know. Sorry guys. :)
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For sure man, there is no right or wrong way to do things within reason, different methods will work at different times for different drivers.
I don't want it to be thought that I am saying your method is wrong in any way, the results speak for themselves, I'm just trying to offer a different view so both sides of the point are expressed. I'm always happy to hear the views and thought processes of other tuners because there's always something new to be discussed and learned. My methods are by no means perfect, often my knowledge far outweighs my execution and I write cheques my cars can't cash, apologies if I come across as blunt.
The only ones who truly know the perfect setups are the ones who have pulled the programming apart and have computer programmes to work out the maths and science, the rest of us are just throwing numbers at a wall to see what sticks and learning from our experiences.
Keep doing what you're doing bud, its working really well
 
yannagas
Everybody here is saying the same thing. Its just like tuning... everybody has his way of saying it!:cheers:
Oh and you know a great deal Mitch! and when you don't you're after it till you do!👍
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Thanks Yan and yea, that's one thing I will admit to....I'm like a sponge when it comes to knowledge, always soaking up what I can. 👍 Thanks to people like you, its possible for me to learn and grow as a driver/tuner. I would not be where I am today if it wasn't for you and other great people here that are willing to share their knowledge. So, to you and others, I say a very heart-felt thanks. :bowdown: :cheers:

On another note, I would just like to say that here starting in a few days, I will be absent from any participation here. I just don't want anybody to think I'm ignoring them or being stuck-up, but I just seen the official news that the Academy starts on the 21st of this month. So, I will be devoting every waking hour, and then some :lol:, in trying to realize my goal of becoming a GT Academy finalist. I am going to be putting everything I got into this, more than ever before, all in, leaving nothing out there. This is what I've been waiting for and is my ultimate goal, a chance to show the world that even a disabled little man can compete with the best of them. I have devoted 4 years of my life to this game, and it has all come down to this. I'm going to start practicing with the Nissan @ Silverstone so my time here will be very limited and become non-existent once the Academy starts. Sorry, don't mean to get carried away and drag the thread off-topic, just thought I owed it to my good friends here to explain my disappearance. I wish anyone here good luck if you plan on going for the prize and look forward to seeing everyone here in the competition.

So now, if you'll excuse me, Cinderella here has a ball to get ready for. :lol: See you guys. Peace, and as always, stay fast my friends!!

Mitch "CargoRatt"
 
GTP_CargoRatt
Thanks Yan and yea, that's one thing I will admit to....I'm like a sponge when it comes to knowledge, always soaking up what I can. 👍 Thanks to people like you, its possible for me to learn and grow as a driver/tuner. I would not be where I am today if it wasn't for you and other great people here that are willing to share their knowledge. So, to you and others, I say a very heart-felt thanks. :bowdown: :cheers:

On another note, I would just like to say that here starting in a few days, I will be absent from any participation here. I just don't want anybody to think I'm ignoring them or being stuck-up, but I just seen the official news that the Academy starts on the 21st of this month. So, I will be devoting every waking hour, and then some :lol:, in trying to realize my goal of becoming a GT Academy finalist. I am going to be putting everything I got into this, more than ever before, all in, leaving nothing out there. This is what I've been waiting for and is my ultimate goal, a chance to show the world that even a disabled little man can compete with the best of them. I have devoted 4 years of my life to this game, and it has all come down to this. I'm going to start practicing with the Nissan @ Silverstone so my time here will be very limited and become non-existent once the Academy starts. Sorry, don't mean to get carried away and drag the thread off-topic, just thought I owed it to my good friends here to explain my disappearance. I wish anyone here good luck if you plan on going for the prize and look forward to seeing everyone here in the competition.

So now, if you'll excuse me, Cinderella here has a ball to get ready for. :lol: See you guys. Peace, and as always, stay fast my friends!!

Mitch "CargoRatt"
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Good luck mate, all the best
 
Just managed to improve my time by .5 secs, 1:30.412 with my own tune and 454th place, gonna try some of the tunes posted here and try to enter the 1:29s.
 
Used Cargo's tune with some minor adjustments to aero and BB at 3/1 vs. 4/2 in his set-up. Really need to clean up the last sector and the exit out of the last corner. 1:28.842, just nudged you out Cargo, sorry.
 
shoenboggie
Used Cargo's tune with some minor adjustments to aero and BB at 3/1 vs. 4/2 in his set-up. Really need to clean up the last sector and the exit out of the last corner. 1:28.842, just nudged you out Cargo, sorry.
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Cleaned up the last corner and got a1:28.572 with aero at 60, little less push/understeer and keeping the tires from going red/yellow as best I can. Smooth is fast with this one. Great tune Cargo!!!:cheers:

What am I going to do when you focus on GT Academy? Tune it myself from scratch I guess...:banghead:
 
Johnnypenso
All good advice:tup:👍 except for this. The higher the Accel LSD is, the more likely you are to start spinning the outside rear tire on full throttle before the inner tire and this will cause you to spin out. @GTP_CargoRatt has a setting that's likely close to optimum for everyone which is 5/18. Depending on how much car control you have you might even go to 14-16. But to go to 20 and beyond you're increasing your risk of outside wheelspin under power and you definitely don't want that.
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Interesting that you say 'optimum' because I have been messing around with the LSD just to see what the difference is. I can be almost a second ahead of my ghost after the second straight then lose it all on the sweeping corner. The ghost crawls ahead the rest of the way. CG's tune does seem to be optimum, as you say. 'Strike a happy medium', I guess.

Edit: This was supposed to be in the Pug thread. It's probably the same in this seasonal, however, only with 2WD not 4WD. I used Marmite's tune on this one, Cargo's on the Pug. Sorry for the confusion...it's an age thing. :lol:
 
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DolHaus
I was running 10/50/25
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Those settings would never work for me in GT5, so I didn't even try anything close to that in GT6. Willing to give anything a go to see if it helps. If I come back to this TT, and I usually don't put in more than one session, I'll try these settings and see if it works for me. 👍👍
 
Johnnypenso
Those settings would never work for me in GT5, so I didn't even try anything close to that in GT6. Willing to give anything a go to see if it helps. If I come back to this TT, and I usually don't put in more than one session, I'll try these settings and see if it works for me. 👍👍
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Yeah its weird, I stumbled across it whilst tuning a car for an online race series. We were struggling for acceleration coming out of slow corners due to a useless torque curve (peaked at about 4k and dropped off sharply), I got bored after a trying all sorts of tricks and decided I'd try and drift the car for a bit of fun and to get some photos for the team.
The car had a lot of grip on SS tyres so I figured a locked diff set up would be the easiest way to get it sliding without having to mess up the tune too much. Went out and threw it into the first corner, jumped on the loud pedal expecting the tyres to light up into a graceful slide, turns out the tyres had a different plan and hooked up almost immediately firing me off the track. Restarted the lap and tried a conventional lap instead and found I was just leaving the ghost behind on every corner, not even a hint of wheelspin or instability.
It does require a change of driving style, you can't really ride the throttle in corners because it pushes wide slightly so its not suited to tight, twisty circuits, but on some tracks its absolutely deadly due to the increased exit speed.
 
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I did a few laps tonight chasing my ghost from yesterday and couldn't get anywhere near. I was driving like a bat out of hell trying to keep up but just kept messing up. So I decided to calm down and just put in a few clean laps and was very surprised to see the "new online record" box pop up. I'd inadvertently loaded GT_Rajman's ghost. :dunce:
Didn't do me any harm though. I've now done 1:29.093 for 116th. There were only a couple of small mistakes in there so I reckon I'm nearing my limit. If I can get below .29 and maybe into the top 100 I'll be buying Mr CargoRatt a virtual pint.:cheers:
 

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