Monaco Grand Prix

[Lee]

Yeah I saw that on the TV Coverage. I wonder if any marshalls picked some up after the race. "Authentic Formula 1 Rubber" Could sell well on eBay.

 

[MustangSVT]

The only reason Schumacher got to 5th was because Webber, Raikkonen and Trulli all went out of the race. Otherwise, he'd of been 8th. If Rosberg hadn't gone out as well, he'd of been in 9th. And Klien went out as well. And you can't say "oh those drivers are bad, their mistake". Well not really. As far as I remember, all of those 5 DNF's were due to car problems, not driver. Anyway, what Schumacher did isn't that impressive. Still doesn't match for example how Kimi went from like what 17th all the way to 3rd in Bahrain. I think people are giving Schumi a bit too much credit.

Did everybody forget what Kimi was doing? He'd of won the race if that stupid safety car hadn't come out, and even then, maybe he'd of still passed him. I thought it was very impressive that Kimi was able to hang with Alonso, and then in 2nd stint, Alonso seemed to kind of lose it there for some laps (2-2.5 seconds slower per lap), and Kimi had at least like 3, maybe 5 laps more of fuel in his car.

Anyway, Alonso was lucky again. I can't believe the luck this guy has. If the rest of the season is like this "schumacher passing in pits" or "raikkonen dnf's while chasing alonso", then I'm disappointed. I'm pretty disappointed so far anyway. Only good race we've had so far is Bahrain, and the this (Monaco) until Webber and Raikkonen went out. Other than that, all of the other races have been boring. The only exciting parts where when Montoya passed Fisi at Nurb, or when Raikkonen got Button at Nurb, or when Raikkonen passed like 3 (or 4?) cars at the start of Barcelona, that's about it.

 

[Lee]

I find it more impressive that Mark Webber kept up with them personally.. Kimi, I'd expect it from..

 

[F1 - Txnhockey]

mustang i totally agree on alonso's luck, man he was handed Monaco, handed-
micheal lost his pole(with ferrari's telementary data i belive them even more)
Kimi and Webber were out
Jp's was the only person who might have gotten him but there was such a diffrence after webber it didn't matter

But man still, about micheal, 8th from 22 on monaco!!! o ****? thats good, even if he was let by by the super aguris, midlands, and a speed.

yet he got 5th, so i'm even more pleased

 

[Lee]

His one stop strategy done most of the work..

 

[kikie]

About MS: before the SC he wasn't even in the top 10, I believe he was 13 or 12 th. After the SC he was moved to 8th. Like I said before, I'm not impressed!!!

And yes, Alonso had a lot of luck.

 

[F1 - Txnhockey]

alright kikie tell me why massa didn't do it, and bee your so right about the one stop, not only the only way for him to go but use full too since ferrari only had those soft or hard tires to chose from, anyway what was up with the hondas especially button??? i hope he can come trough, or at least give a good show, in silverstone.

 

[TheMoose]

His one stop strategy done most of the work..

That's what makes what he did even more impressive, he was super heavy on fuel & his tires wasn't the best this weekend!!

Face it all you Shumi haters, he's still one of the best drivers in the world & people will be talking about him long after Alonso is forgotten about driving unreliable Mclarens!!!

 

[the Interceptor]

Face it all you Shumi haters, he's still one of the best drivers in the world & people will be talking about him long after Alonso is forgotten about driving unreliable Mclarens!!!

He is one of the best drivers in the world, and he'd be much more popular if he wouldn't pull things like on saturday once in a while.

And apart from that, I think that even the worst Schumi haters will admit that he's one brilliant driver.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[Div is back]

Well Kikie and Robin don't seem to even admit that...

 

[Lee]

Face it all you Shumi haters, he's still one of the best drivers in the world & people will be talking about him long after Alonso is forgotten about driving unreliable Mclarens!!!

Personally, I think Alonso will do to McLaren what Schumi done to Ferrari, the car isn't the best right now but I think Fernando will be able to drive the socks off it and perform better than what is possible on paper.

Especially if Lewis Hamilton is his team mate, pushing him to the limit. Them 2 as team mates would be one tasty line up.

As for Schumi yes, but that's our point, he is one of the greatest drivers to ever roll up to the grid (or pit lane in some exceptions) so why did he have to pull such a silly, dangerous move in quali..

 

[Fonce Diablo]

Lewis Hamilton is ridiculous-good.

I started making a point of watching GP2 races just to see him obliterate everybody. Get him an F1 ride yesterday.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Personally, I think Alonso will do to McLaren what Schumi done to Ferrari, the car isn't the best right now but I think Fernando will be able to drive the socks off it and perform better than what is possible on paper.

Personally i think Kimi is the "better" driver and if kimi hasnt "transformed" McLaren neither will Alonso.

As for Schumi yes, but that's our point, he is one of the greatest drivers to ever roll up to the grid (or pit lane in some exceptions) so why did he have to pull such a silly, dangerous move in quali..

Which is why i wonder if what he did was on purpose or not.

1. He was on pole
2. He was on a very fast lap
3. His car was very fast
4. Its early in the championship

So why would he need to do it?

 

[Carl.]

1. He was on pole
2. He was on a very fast lap

He made a mistake in the second sector of that lap, so he would have lost the pole.

His car was very fast

"He lost control of his car while travelling at only 16km/h. That is something completely unjustifiable. And the engine only shut off because he wanted it to by losing enough time before hitting the clutch. And the excuse that he did not engage reverse because there was traffic doesn't make sense at all."

Source

We'll never know for sure, but the evidence is just overwhelming.

 

[Kylehnat]

So why would he need to do it?

Alonso was 0.3 seconds up after the second sector, which as you know, is quite close to the finish line. With the session over, Schumi couldn't have started another lap. Essentially, Alonso had the pole clinched with his final lap until Michael childishly "took his ball and went home".

 

[Threshold]

Like I said you are more than entitled to hate MS, but the fact is that F1 still needs a guy like him. Unless you think watching FA cruise from pole to victory on every race is entertaining.

BTW anyone know how the f1-live.com coverage is? What do you get from paying the membership?

 

[Carl.]

Sure, but acts like that shouldn't go unpunished just because it would have made a better show for the race.

 

[the Interceptor]

Like I said you are more than entitled to hate MS, but the fact is that F1 still needs a guy like him. Unless you think watching FA cruise from pole to victory on every race is entertaining.

I've reached a level with MS where I don't care who wins, as long as it isn't him. Therefor, I could do very well without him.

Regards
the Interceptor

 

[kikie]

alright kikie tell me why massa didn't do it,

Because Ferrari doesn't admit it but MS is still their first driver and there're still team orders. That's also why shumacher got 7 titles while he only deserves 4 of them. Team orders, sheating, doing stuff others drivers weren't allowed etc... all the things Ferrari and Shumacher did in the past. He was very good protected in the past.

I don't know what I'm supposed to admit but I agree with others that Shumacher is a brilliant driver (still one of the best) but certainly not THE BEST driver. He proved to be a very talented driver even when Senna was still alive. I don't hate Shumacher, I'm just not a fan!!! I do hate all the fuss about him written in the press over the years while he even doesn't deserve half off what's written. That's what makes me a little mad about him. The injustice about his actions in the past, the protection he got, the team orders and the lies about him being THE BEST driver at that moment. He's not!! But he is definitely a very, very good and very talented driver. And I like to watch him drive. F1 is not going to be the same (loose a lot of its glamour (personal opinion)), when MS retires).
He's a poor looser and he proved that over the years (and again if he did it on purpose, last saturday in Monaco).


Everyone has it's own opinion about things, please try to respect others
opinions.

 

[MustangSVT]

He really doens't deserve all that credit for this race. Let's see. 5 drivers ahead of him had DNF because of car failure.

And the safety car helped him tremendously. He really didn't do that much. He managed to catch up to Barichello because he probably wasn't pushing that much and consider that Barichello had a drive through penalty.

I'm not impressed. I'm impressed by the fact that Kimi hanged with Alonso because from what I've seen this season, Alonso's car is the most superior package, with the Ferrari being its only competitor (at least so it would seem..).

 

[east]

all the things Ferrari and Shumacher did in the past.

Right, its all in the past now, anyone still angry at him for those things should hurry up and get over it real fast, he's not going to be arround for much longer, I used to hate the guy myself but I got over it, I plan to enjoy watching him race in the remainder of his career, he deserves all of our respect, he's the greatest driver in the history of Formula 1, PERIOD.

 

[RenesisEvo]

he's the greatest driver in the history of Formula 1, PERIOD.

I would disagree. He is the greatest driver, statistically, of the current era of Formula 1. Anything else would go beyond the realms of what can and cannot be proved. We cannot compare him to Senna, Fangio, etc. so let's not go making huge, sweeping assertions which can never be justified.

 

[Famine]

The thing Schumacher - and Todt - do well is test the rules to breaking point - and beyond. BAR tried it once, but failed miserably. Problem is that they suck out all sense of sportsmanship from F1, and turn it into a competition to see who can cheat the most while still being technically legal.

Psychologists would tell you that most top-line drivers have a peculiar brain disorder which renders them incapable of feeling guilt, which is what makes them winners - they'll do whatever it takes to get the job done - something they have in common with the worst of the worst psychopaths. Clarkson's questioning of Schumacher about the Hill and Villeneuve incidents showed that he really doesn't feel he did anything wrong in either case. He has apologised for at least the Villeneuve one (I don't know if he has for the Hill one) but there's absolutely no doubt that it wasn't sincere - he was apologising for being caught.

He's probably one of the most focussed out there, and has a team behind him with the same mindset - win at all costs, thou shalt not get caught. I'd be willing to bet thay have a whole team on the payroll just for combing the FIA rulebook for loopholes and testing them out. The Monaco qualifying incident was just the latest test. But it's always the same - make some rules and someone will try to find a way around them, or straight through the unwritten ones.

Does this make Schumacher a bad person? Maybe. Would F1 be better off without him? Well, it'd be more interesting, but without people willing to test and bend the rules it might be less of a spectacle.

 

[Mclaren_Man]

It depends on which way you look at it though. Like you have said most modern F1 drivers are overly focused on the job that they must do (almost robot like in Kimi's case). But even though are extremely focused, I dont think that many of them would do what Schumacher did on the saturday. During the 1990's schuey had a very bad loser attitude which lead to him getting quite fired up at some times, one particular time was spa '98, I swear he would have thumped coulthard if his team wasnt holding him back.

My point is that out of all the drivers in the field today, I think Schuey is the most likely to do something dodgy.

As for his race, I dont think shcuey was that special, a special race for me is Kimi at Japan in 2005, 17th to 1st with genuine overtaking involved.

 

[Andrew R]

I thought it was a good race until Webber went, then closely followed by Kimi. I was crushed, I had to turn it off.

When will these guys get some luck?

 

[Greycap]

- I know that this really doesn't belong here but as we're also discussing Schumacher I'll put it here. -

M. Schumacher has 66 poles now. It took him 236 races in a top team (and one with Jordan) to get to that figure. Senna took 65 in about 150 races.

He has 86 victories, out of 237 races. The winning percentage is thus 36,3% as Fangio had a percentage (24 out of 51) of 47,0%.

He has seven championships now, he has driven for 14 years - again in a top team. So, 50% of his years have resulted in winning the championship. Fangio drove for seven and a half years and won five titles. The percentage is 66,7.

So, is Schumacher really the best F1 driver ever, or is it just because he has driven longer in a top team than any driver before?

I admit that he's a great driver, that can't be denied, but many of his records are results of an extraordinarily long career, something that some of the best drivers ever weren't allowed to have.

- R -

 

[Small_Fryz]

though, ferrari wasnt always top team, and fangio went into a very good team also.

 

[Danoff]

Good race. I feel for Ferrari though. They obviously had hard tire compounds for this race (as evidenced by the 1-stop strategy) and it sent both Masa and Schumacher into the wall. Michael's pit strategy didn't work out right for getting heat into his tires, and his last lap time was poor to show for it. He was obviously having some trouble with grip, countersteering through most of the final turns, and he cut the last turn too soon, locked up, countersteered to regain traction, still locked up, ended up in the wall. Just like his teammate.

To claim that he put himself in the wall on purpose just doesn't make sense. There's no reason he couldn't win the race from 2nd place. Passing in the pits in this race is no more difficult than any other race. Why would he risk his car and his neck to take pole instead of 2nd? For a guy with this huge a reputation, I wouldn't think he'd care about winning this race enough to stick his ass out there for everyone to run over.

Kimi was obviously a significantly faster driver than Alonso on this track. It sucks that his engine went because he could have won this race. Ferrari did a phenomenal job of coming from behind back up into the points. Schumacher would have passed into 4th place with another lap or two. To be that close to the podium after starting from dead last is nothing short of amazing.

Fisi made a horrendous pass during the race. Increadibly dangerous, it was essentially playing chicken, except he didn't have the option to chicken out. I'm not impressed with Fisi.

 

[Kylehnat]

To claim that he put himself in the wall on purpose just doesn't make sense.

He didn't hit the wall at all. He just, well, stopped. Like my dad said: "If he wanted to do somethat that pathetic, he should have at least taken the front wing off the car." Claiming that you lost control of the car at Monaco and coming back to the pits with nary a scratch suggests that something is afoul.

Michael is no choir boy. There are several well-documented cases of him doing something dodgy or cowardly becuase he wasn't winning.

There's no reason he couldn't win the race from 2nd place. Passing in the pits in this race is no more difficult than any other race. Why would he risk his car and his neck to take pole instead of 2nd?

The team was probably scared of Fernando taking pole and walking off into the distance during the race. The Renault and Ferrari are dead evenly matched, but both have strengths. Ferrari has better straightline speed and aero grip; two things that mean squat at Monaco. Advantage: Renault. Renault, McLaren, and maybe even Williams had better cars for Monaco than Ferrari. Also, if Michael started 2nd, there would have been the possiblility that Webber could have beat him off the line and held up Michael, effectively giving the race to Alonso. This is probably taking the conspiracy theory too far, but it's not too out there.

To be that close to the podium after starting from dead last is nothing short of amazing.

Well, it did take no fewer than three notoriously "wide" cars retiring to give Michael 5th. And we saw Kimi do the same thing several times last year. MS is not the only one capable of it.

[!Opinion alert!] I think that Michael is scared. After such an illustrious career, he wants to (and probably deserves to) go out on top. However, the rise of Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen at this point in Michael's career probably bothers him. It's competition that:
1)he didn't have during his title runs
2)is capable of beating him on a weekly basis, and
3)exploits the fact that he is no longer as good as he once was, something that Michael would probably like to hide.

At least he'll always be better than Ralf

Fisi made a horrendous pass during the race. Increadibly dangerous, it was essentially playing chicken, except he didn't have the option to chicken out. I'm not impressed with Fisi.

When Giancarlo is on his game, he's one of the best. When he loses his temper and composure (pretty much every race), he sucks. He's always had the speed and skill, but very little race craft. He always whined about not being with a top team, but now that he is, he's choking. Being team-mates with Alonso probably doesn't help his self-esteem either.

 

[F1 - Txnhockey]

i could talk all day about MS and FA and the race and what i think, but i'm too lazy and American

but i enjoyed the race even though williams (my second favorite team) didn't score a point and my man Schumi got balled during quali, this is my first year of religious devotion to F1 and i'm enjoying it

what'd you guys think of the race?