More Standard Love - Carbon Hoods!

[Stephen220378]

I think all of us wanted 1000 premiums, but we don't have them. We have 800 standards to use, and I bet those who use them would like even more love.

Just watch the photomode sections, how much people are using standards more now, just because of the swappable wheels.

These cars are in our game, lets use them all. That's what I think.

I agree about using them, personally I use a lot of standards, in fact probably 80% of the time the car I use for races is a standard, however my opinion on them is that they were included as a compromise simply because PD didn't have the time to model them as premium, so as they are a compromise they should just be there and the developers time and effort spent on things other than trying to make a 7 year old last gen console car model look marginally better.

 

[HKS racer]

But 800 standard cars are a quite BIG compromise, it means about 80% of cars in this game so I well understand who want they add more features, expecially if it's not time consuming. Not to mention with a livery editor every one could do his own "carbon hood".

 

[Griffith500]

Ok but are you aware about the so called "6 months and lot of luv" development? To create 100 "carbon" hoods they need about 4 hours. It's just a texture. Yes, I can live without but in a couple of cars would be nice.

Unfortunately, those textures would have to be hand-placed, ideally as an "overlay", which given that the car's body is modelled as a complete shell (unlike the Premiums, whose panels are modelled separately) would mean extra geometry to ensure there are no nasty UV mapping errors where there is supposed to be a nice, straight demarcation of the bonnet / hood. Unless blurry textures / fuzzy and incoherent outlines etc. are fine with everyone. The fastest way to do it would be to engineer some sort of tool to semi-automate it, but that takes time, introduces possibilities for bugs and systematic errors etc., even if still mostly done by hand.

Either way, it would probably be more worthwhile in terms of "return on (time / effort -> money) investment" just to include the livery editor, as you say, and concentrate on upgrading the Standards instead.

 

[diegorborges]

Unfortunately, those textures would have to be hand-placed, ideally as an "overlay", which given that the car's body is modelled as a complete shell (unlike the Premiums, whose panels are modelled separately) would mean extra geometry to ensure there are no nasty UV mapping errors where there is supposed to be a nice, straight demarcation of the bonnet / hood. Unless blurry textures / fuzzy and incoherent outlines etc. are fine with everyone. The fastest way to do it would be to engineer some sort of tool to semi-automate it, but that takes time, introduces possibilities for bugs and systematic errors etc., even if still mostly done by hand.

Either way, it would probably be more worthwhile in terms of "return on (time / effort -> money) investment" just to include the livery editor, as you say, and concentrate on upgrading the Standards instead.

You got your point, about the nasty UV map errors, etc Well, I've got some experience with 3d modelling, and in most cases its just a matter of doing another texture and having a switch to change them. Pretty much like happens with some cars that have stickers/details and lose them.

As GT5 cars are paintable, I bet it have a normal texture with a standard color (probably white or some other bright color) and another material with the details, badges etc. The hood would be kept in those other material or it'll be just another texture with the hood texture changed.

But again, some cars would require extra love to keep the UV problems away.

 

[Griffith500]

Well, I've got some experience with 3d modelling, and in most cases its just a matter of doing another texture and having a switch to change them. Pretty much like happens with some cars that have stickers/details and lose them.

As GT5 cars are paintable, I bet it have a normal texture with a standard color (probably white or some other bright color) and another material with the details, badges etc. The hood would be kept in those other material or it'll be just another texture with the hood texture changed.

Yeah, that's what I think too. The details (badges, headlamps and the like) are not "tinted" like the rest of the texture is, so there's some way of separating them being used there. I suspect it might be possible to use that same method to prevent the bonnet from being "tinted", and then applying the (tiling?) carbon texture used for the Premiums to that area. A completely separate, redone texture with the carbon already included as a "detail" is probably easier, but it might be very low-res.

In either case, you still need to manually set where that texture should be applied, though; it involves artists working on a dead-end, which may stunt premium upgrades / new cars for GT6.

I'd happily see it implemented; I just don't expect to. A livery editor would let us add "carbon" panels to our hearts' content, so I personally think it's a better investment for the Standards (and the game overall).

 

[JDMeddie]

Instead of asking for carbon hoods on standards, what about the rest of the wheels that weren't even given to standards...?

 

[DawgCCCP]

Instead of asking for carbon hoods on standards, what about the rest of the wheels that weren't even given to standards...?

Totally agree with this statement! Better to have all the wheels in selection for standards!

 

[XPLOSV]

I would MUCH rather the wheel selection from GT4 before anything like this for the standard cars.

The wheel selection for alot of the older cars is utter ****.

Infact, I will go on record and say that if this problem is not fixed for GT6, I will not only boycott it, but will throw my PS3 out of my second story window in protest.

 

[killer tiller]

I would MUCH rather the wheel selection from GT4 before anything like this for the standard cars.

For sure, well I only want the gold wire rims. My Buick special needs them lol

 

[HKS racer]

Unfortunately, those textures...
The fastest way to do it would be to engineer some sort of tool to semi-automate it....

I guess you mean TEMPLATES then. Is that "gizmo-engineering-semi-automatic-thing" you are talking about. Example: http://enduracers.com/downloads_es.html scroll down until you see one of them download one if you wanna see how it's done. Basically it's a photoshop file with the whole car mapped correctly. Sometimes you find 3d wireframe too. If they did the job properly there's no offset no weirdness no bs at all. Developers/modders use them when they need to paint a car, PD and Turn 10 as well. Turn 10 created a graphic interface that allow you to edit this template (or "mapping") without photoshop, a.k.a. livery editor.

 

[shirakawaa]

I think they could at least introduce rear painted wings in addition to the current black/carbon fiber ones. Or also a few more, less extreme-looking models.
This would require less work than carbon fiber hoods.

 

[spikeyhairdude]

would like carbon firbe hoods. but would rather have more wheels like in gt3.

 

[avens]

Time is of the essence. Keep employees working on the future of GT, the premium cars. If standards did get carbon hoods, I think people would expect more and more. Why not additional aero kits? Why not this or that? In reality, they'll be taking attention away from the premium. They'll only ever be standard, despite visual costumes and lighting tweaks. Show us some more premium love! Boost the modern car total as well as convert standard classics to premium levels.

that's exactly what PD should do: make all standards premium, even if it takes outsourcing the job.

Sincerely GT6 can't compete against forza5 if they don't do some drastic changes on that department. GT5 has about 250 premiums, forza4 550. Turn 10 develops them at least twice as fast according to how fast they are releasing DLC and the general development of the series.

Lets suppose GT6 is released in late 2013, with 150 more premium cars (400 total). By that time forza5 will have 800 or more, and they can really say those are truly 800 since standards are subpar models in which there's only about 150 unique cars.

 

[Griffith500]

I guess you mean TEMPLATES then. Is that "gizmo-engineering-semi-automatic-thing" you are talking about. Example: http://enduracers.com/downloads_es.html scroll down until you see one of them download one if you wanna see how it's done. Basically it's a photoshop file with the whole car mapped correctly. Sometimes you find 3d wireframe too. If they did the job properly there's no offset no weirdness no bs at all. Developers/modders use them when they need to paint a car, PD and Turn 10 as well. Turn 10 created a graphic interface that allow you to edit this template (or "mapping") without photoshop, a.k.a. livery editor.

Sort of; more like making tools that help make those "templates"; I was thinking really just real time UV modification that allows you to "float" the carbon texture onto the car interactively, modify its shape, size etc. then bake it in - rather than edit the texture directly in photoshop, or whatever. You'd be left with a template, of course, given the textures allow the car to be painted different colours (like LFS' templates, but with extra features.) It's just silly conjecture in the end, but I thought it might speed things up considerably, once the tools had been made.

 

[benzoboy]

Carbon bonnets would be a welcome addition in my books, matter of fact any form of appearance upgrade is welcome to me. I can't imagine it'd be too difficult to implement carbon bonnets, at least the painted ones, PD could model a generic bonnet pin/catch and place two onto every car with the upgrade. As far as the actual carbon texture goes, I'm not too sure how it'd be implemented.

What I, however would like to see are new exhaust tips, much alike the premium cars, because it seems a bit peculiar to have a 600+bhp car with a standard exhaust, it doesn't often seem to happen in real life. How hard would that be to implement?

 

[shirakawaa]

What I, however would like to see are new exhaust tips, much alike the premium cars, because it seems a bit peculiar to have a 600+bhp car with a standard exhaust, it doesn't often seem to happen in real life. How hard would that be to implement?

I see this requiring even more work than carbon bonnets, since the exhaust tip placement and shape is different from car to car, and several of them have flat textures as as their exhaust tip, with no 3d detail at all. In other words, they would have to add detail where there isn't.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Wouldn't you rather PD spend their time on converting Standards into Premiums (with the ability to change carbon hoods) instead of wasting their time trying to make Standards more attractive?

Perfect answer. Having ALL the cars as premiums would make this an epic game. However I am very happy with the updates to the standard interiors and the wheel updates. So KY is in the right direction for sure. 👍

 

[HKS racer]

@ griffith Let's say the boring part with templates is to map the car correctly, create the template itself, test it an see if everything work as it should, no offest, blur etc etc.. Usually all top quality mods and commercial products have good templates. The difference is pc devs and modders release them, console devs keeps them, or create "livery editors" (basically a GUI that allow you 3d model visualization and some rudimental grapihic tools).
With photoshop you can't see the 3d car but you have far more options on graphic editing. To visualize the car you have 2 ways: load the texture in the game, or load it in a 3d editor. Basically on pc people paint cars using a "livery editor" with no GUI and more features.

 

[Cosbuster]

Carbon hoods, at least the unpainted ones, would require texture work.

Actual work required? God forbid!

 

[benzoboy]

Wouldn't you rather PD spend their time on converting Standards into Premiums (with the ability to change carbon hoods) instead of wasting their time trying to make Standards more attractive?

It'd probably make more sense to PD to save all the new premium cars for GT6, and make the existing standard ones look nicer, with more options. That way there's more new content in GT6, something that's a win win situation for both the developer and consumer.

 

[Griffith500]

@ griffith Let's say the boring part with templates is to map the car correctly, create the template itself, test it an see if everything work as it should, no offest, blur etc etc.. Usually all top quality mods and commercial products have good templates. The difference is pc devs and modders release them, console devs keeps them, or create "livery editors" (basically a GUI that allow you 3d model visualization and some rudimental grapihic tools).
With photoshop you can't see the 3d car but you have far more options on graphic editing. To visualize the car you have 2 ways: load the texture in the game, or load it in a 3d editor. Basically on pc people paint cars using a "livery editor" with no GUI and more features.

I think you're overcomplicating what I was talking about. I meant the devs. You don't need photoshop's advanced features to add a simple carbon texture... (I've done it in MSPaint! )
My imaginary method would allow the car to be visualised as its edited, with no manual saving and modification of textures or any other faffing required for the devs. As I said, it's total conjecture about how the devs might be able to make the process less involving and thus less time consuming and thus more likely to actually happen. I know very well how it's done in the modding scene on PC, I've been doing it for years myself, but it's irrelevant for consoles where the tools simply aren't available.

A livery editor for us plebeians is a different matter altogether, and non-real-time visualisation is entirely obsolete in that regard (think early Papyrus games and LFS vs. Forza etc.). There's a reason console games don't "release templates"; what exactly are you going to edit them with? A PC? That's not in the console manufacturers' interests. Besides, with a real-time livery editor, you're working directly with the "template" anyway, but, even better, you can see exactly how it appears on the car, since there's no UV translation to try to second-guess in between edit-save-load-test-quit-edit cycles. User friendliness!


This is silly. All I'm saying is, they won't waste their time on it. A livery editor is more likely, somewhere down the line, than having some poor bugger manually add a carbon texture to the "bonnet" (trial and error) of each of these obsolete cars, when there is better work to be done. That is: making more Premiums, and a livery editor - both of which are on their way anyway (eventually...)