Motorcycles in GT5?

[CyborgGT]

"Gran Turismo" as a game title is trademarked, for one thing. For another, those are dedicated sport bike games. Cars don't compete in the Superbike World Championship or MotoGP. There are multiple games out there with both cars and bikes, such as Midnight Club and Project Gotham Racing. The fact remains that Gran Turismo is obviously not dedicated to just grand tourers.

And just as you say there are other bike games out there for bikers to enjoy, there are other car games out there for you to enjoy. What's your point? We like Gran Turismo best!

 

[RACECAR]

My only issue with bikes being included in GT is it isn't so much about how "realistic" things are or "that is what TT is for", but it is a "Driving simulator". See, there is not one but two things that say car about GT:

1. GT itself almost always references to cars. Even while thats not what any open wheel car is called, they are for the most part meet the definition of automobiles because they have a internal combustion engine in a shape that has more then two wheels, that would even mean the very odd looking three-wheelers(and the rare but real six wheelers).

2. Its always been called "The Real Driving Simulator". Even while again a F1 car and a Touring car, (and countless other race cars) aren't GT cars, how do you get them around? You don't ride them around(though you can ride around in them should they have an extra seat) and you don't fly them, you drive them.

 

[CyborgGT]

"Driving" is just another technical term, just like GT is. To me, it's all the same. If you're controlling the vehicle, you're driving it, and there's the exact same amount of control in a car as there is in a bike. In actuality, a person does not "drive" a vehicle. The engine and various other components do, you're just riding in the car, telling it what to do. The slogan isn't "the real driving simulator pertaining only to four-wheeled vehicles, with the occasional three-wheeler".

EDIT - another example. Look at the ToCA Race Driver series. Do Formula 1, monster trucks, sprint cars, indy cars, NASCAR, rally cars, the DTM, and all the other series in TRD3 have anything to do with the Touring Car Association, which only handles the BTCC, after which it's named? No.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Moto GP is for Grand Prix Bikes. (Hence the name)

WSB is for World Super Bikes (hence the name)

Isle of Mann TT is for bikes and side cars on the Isle of Mann (hence the name, but cars do race on the TT, so who knows)

All very specific names, WSB is an actual official FIA championship as well as Moto GP - and Isle of Mann TT covers a specific yearly motorcycle race - Why would we have cars racing around or moto GP bikes Mixing it up with WSB bikes? Bad example


We have many car specific games, like the countless WRC games, F1 games, and Nascars games, all of which do not have any other car classes mixing it up. Gran Turismo has no specific reference in its meaning, nor does it contributes to any particular once make series. We have Toca, which evolved and moved away from the touring cars, to expand, and welcome other not so popular classes of motorsport.

As I said before, Gran Turismo is Loose - not specific.

Just to clarify.

It seems that the people that don't want bikes in GT5 have used various reasons as to why bikes should not be included in GT5, now the latest under the umbrella that because Gran Turismo is infact called Gran Turismo, this must mean that because of the name, GT is exclusive to only cars, with the incorrect belief that the name GT is purely a representative of cars and cars only. Yet I have proven that a Grand Touring Vehicle characterisation is not exclusive to cars only and that GT is most ''commonly'' perceived and described as a car fitting particular performance/style criteria, thus destroying any argument that says otherwise. Instead of dreaming up unfounded reasons and excuses to justify a reason to not include bikes in GT, how about you just say that you don't want them, and be done with it.

If we played by your rules on GT, and using exactly what GT means, instead and using it in a context to suit you, then half the cars in Gran Turismo would not exist at all, as we would be driving around in true GT cars, and not Toyota Yaris's with go faster stripes, funky colours and a big spoiler..ohh and 22 inch rims!

KY's vision of his beloved GT series has always been hardware limited.

 

[RACECAR]

"Driving" is just another technical term, just like GT is. To me, it's all the same. If you're controlling the vehicle, you're driving it, and there's the exact same amount of control in a car as there is in a bike. In actuality, a person does not "drive" a vehicle. The engine and various other components do, you're just riding in the car, telling it what to do. The slogan isn't "the real driving simulator pertaining only to four-wheeled vehicles, with the occasional three-wheeler".

I guess I still just don't see why people want Bikes on a game thats been about cars.

 

[Patrik]

Just face it. There will be no bikes in GT5.

GT = Cars
TT = Bikes

Simple as that...

 

[PAPPACLART]

Just face it. There will be no bikes in GT5.

GT = Cars
TT = Bikes

Simple as that...

Maybe the new game will be called GTTT5 haha

Likely you are correct, but I can still try and justify there inclusion.

Where is that other fella gone, the one that was just as annoying as me with pushing his point for bikes. I may have to PM him, just incase I need some back up, though for now, I think I am doing fine! lol

I so hope, just to be extra anoying for all of you haters, that they have bikes, and they force you all to do the bike licence tests, as well as the car onel.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'll have to say that only one person has been harping on the definition of Gran Turismo, so don't paint with too broad a brush.

Frankly, I'm with the bikers on that one. The reason being that the Gran Turismo series, rather than being defined by the classic automotive term, is all about motorsports. And... by golly, motorsports includes bikes and bike racing.

However. One thing the bike fiends should keep in mind is that yes, modeling one vehicle means that another vehicle isn't being modeled. Note that for every truck, SUV, dinkmobile, hybrid, dragster, rocket car, etc that's being included in GT5 means that some other vehicle is going to be left out. Hopefully relegated to DLC in the not-too-distant future. PAPPACLART talks as if the modelers and coders can sit around and say to each other, "We have an afternoon break coming, why don't we create five motorcycles instead of goofing off?" It doesn't work like that. It's quite a lengthy, testing/tweaking intensive project to get a vehicle to perform in a fairly realistic way across a variety of racing envelopes. Just one.

Now, maybe part of the secrecy surrounding GT5 is that indeed, Tourist Trophy Mode and a nice selection of motorcycles are going to be included. Maybe there's an entire Polyphony II section with their own employees and networked superstations working on getting the bikes and racing modes included. Okay, if that's what happens, I suppose we both will be happy.

However. Yes, I guess I'm getting a little carried away with that drama thing. But this isn't a small matter. You do realize that in order to have this, that GT5 is going to be a compromised game. It's going to be a little bit Gran Turismo, a little bit Tourist Trophy. Something will be left out in order to wedgie these two games together, and both would be larger, more complete games if they were done separately.

But... maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the laser scanning and physics work which was ongoing since the days of GT4 and TT have been put to work efficiently over the last four plus years. Maybe we'll actually get two games in one, with no loss of much of anything. 700 - 100 cars, 50 - 200 motorcycles, 75 - 100 race courses. I do know that Kazunori-dono isn't going to settle for anything less than a quantum jump over GT4, and most racing games in general. So if we do see bikes in GT5, it's going to be because nothing suffered because of it.

 

[Peter]

I'm with the Tourist Trophy 2 to sister GT5. Tourist Trophy was great.

 

[PAPPACLART]

I'll have to say that only one person has been harping on the definition of Gran Turismo, so don't paint with too broad a brush.

Frankly, I'm with the bikers on that one. The reason being that the Gran Turismo series, rather than being defined by the classic automotive term, is all about motorsports. And... by golly, motorsports includes bikes and bike racing.

However. One thing the bike fiends should keep in mind is that yes, modeling one vehicle means that another vehicle isn't being modeled. Note that for every truck, SUV, dinkmobile, hybrid, dragster, rocket car, etc that's being included in GT5 means that some other vehicle is going to be left out. Hopefully relegated to DLC in the not-too-distant future. PAPPACLART talks as if the modelers and coders can sit around and say to each other, "We have an afternoon break coming, why don't we create five motorcycles instead of goofing off?" It doesn't work like that. It's quite a lengthy, testing/tweaking intensive project to get a vehicle to perform in a fairly realistic way across a variety of racing envelopes. Just one.

Now, maybe part of the secrecy surrounding GT5 is that indeed, Tourist Trophy Mode and a nice selection of motorcycles are going to be included. Maybe there's an entire Polyphony II section with their own employees and networked superstations working on getting the bikes and racing modes included. Okay, if that's what happens, I suppose we both will be happy.

However. Yes, I guess I'm getting a little carried away with that drama thing. But this isn't a small matter. You do realize that in order to have this, that GT5 is going to be a compromised game. It's going to be a little bit Gran Turismo, a little bit Tourist Trophy. Something will be left out in order to wedgie these two games together, and both would be larger, more complete games if they were done separately.

But... maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the laser scanning and physics work which was ongoing since the days of GT4 and TT have been put to work efficiently over the last four plus years. Maybe we'll actually get two games in one, with no loss of much of anything. 700 - 100 cars, 50 - 200 motorcycles, 75 - 100 race courses. I do know that Kazunori-dono isn't going to settle for anything less than a quantum jump over GT4, and most racing games in general. So if we do see bikes in GT5, it's going to be because nothing suffered because of it.

Of course, I appreicate it takes time to render a vehicle, bike or car, and was never expecting a huge number of bikes. TT from what I remember ( correct me if I am wrong) had it's own team within PD, and was headed up by number 2 at PD, who is a bike fan and not KY himself. (correct me if I am wrong again) Anyway, If TT2 does come eventually, then they are probably already working on it to a degree, how much if they are is a question, as at this time one would imagine that GT5 is the priority. None the less, Bikes will get modelled, and if that means 2 seperate games, or a few bikes in GT5 to showcase TT before it is out, then a few bikes will not hurt get5's content in anyway.

I hope that Bikes will be in GT 5, but realisticially, The 2 games would never be merged unless there is a price hike. In Amars post, speculating on GT, he mentions the price perhaps being big - ''as we can't imagine the price of it'' this makes me think BIG game, and why include TT in GT5 and sell for the normal std reatil price, when you can sell 2 seperate titles, GT5/TT2 and make more money. If GT5 has bikes, and a huge amount of content, as in 2 50Gig disks, then chargining double retail would be like TT2 selling as many copies as GT5, as well as GT5 sales as well. TT2 would never sell anywhere near as much as GT5, so combine the 2, but spin the price hike, as GT being huge, and the biggest thing ever, not the fact that it has 2 games in one - bikes and cars becuase that will piss the people who would not buy TT2.

 

[Lain]

Just face it. There will be no bikes in GT5.

GT = Cars
TT = Bikes

Simple as that...

Almost.

GT1, 2, 3, and 4 = Cars
TT1 = Bikes

Mark my words: If "TT2" isn't an included part of GT5, then it will be downloadable content for GT5. Since TT1 pretty much used GT4's engine with modified physics, it'd make more sense to distribute TT2 as DLC for GT5, since it'd be less efficient to release the game on Blu-ray when you can easily just piggyback on a lot of GT5's code and graphics.

Reason why TT1 was not part of GT4: Limited DVD disk space, and PS2's lack of hard drive and network to distribute downloadable content.

Since all those issues have been resolved with the PS3, it would be smarter for PD to just release TT2 as a GT5 add-on. Most people interested in a TT2 are probably GT fans, anyway, so why not? The few sales they'd lose for making TT2 a GT5 add-on would be more than made up by the fact that they wouldn't have to produce a physical copy of the game.

Plus, it'd be a win for us fans as well: If bikes are included in GT5 from the start, then great! You're basically getting two games for the price of one. If you don't like the bikes, don't use them. It's that simple. And if bikes are a DLC add-on for GT5, then it'd be optional for the people who don't want to have to use bikes to achieve 100% completion. And it'd most certainly be cheaper than if TT2 were a full retail game at $60.

 

[Ghost_drift]

double post

 

[Ghost_drift]

Moto GP is for Grand Prix Bikes. (Hence the name)

WSB is for World Super Bikes (hence the name)

Isle of Mann TT is for bikes and side cars on the Isle of Mann (hence the name, but cars do race on the TT, so who knows)

All very specific names, WSB is an actual official FIA championship as well as Moto GP - and Isle of Mann TT covers a specific yearly motorcycle race - Why would we have cars racing around or moto GP bikes Mixing it up with WSB bikes? Bad example


We have many car specific games, like the countless WRC games, F1 games, and Nascars games, all of which do not have any other car classes mixing it up. Gran Turismo has no specific reference in its meaning, nor does it contributes to any particular once make series. We have Toca, which evolved and moved away from the touring cars, to expand, and welcome other not so popular classes of motorsport.

As I said before, Gran Turismo is Loose - not specific.

Just to clarify.

It seems that the people that don't want bikes in GT5 have used various reasons as to why bikes should not be included in GT5, now the latest under the umbrella that because Gran Turismo is infact called Gran Turismo, this must mean that because of the name, GT is exclusive to only cars, with the incorrect belief that the name GT is purely a representative of cars and cars only. Yet I have proven that a Grand Touring Vehicle characterisation is not exclusive to cars only and that GT is most ''commonly'' perceived and described as a car fitting particular performance/style criteria, thus destroying any argument that says otherwise. Instead of dreaming up unfounded reasons and excuses to justify a reason to not include bikes in GT, how about you just say that you don't want them, and be done with it.

If we played by your rules on GT, and using exactly what GT means, instead and using it in a context to suit you, then half the cars in Gran Turismo would not exist at all, as we would be driving around in true GT cars, and not Toyota Yaris's with go faster stripes, funky colours and a big spoiler..ohh and 22 inch rims!

KY's vision of his beloved GT series has always been hardware limited.

Yes but if I was to be anoying like you and try and fined a different meaning for everything apart from what it actualy means.

Then GP would be a game about Doctors

WSB could refer to the WSB house lettings group.

And TT well TT could mean lots of things it could even be a shortened down version of AUDI TT.

But see how stupid you are being. you can fined as maney names for gran turismo as you like. Fact remains the same it means car racing or it wouldnt of been on all the GT titles.

I want to be able to finish GT5 to 100% and if bikes are included then I wont due to all bike games having no emersion at all.

Just type Gran turismo into Google images and see how maney pictures of bikes come up. very simply they dont as Gran Turismo is a car racing game and every one knows it. And every one Knows Grant Turismo means Car racing apart from the people that want Motorbikes in GT5.

I exspect Tourist Trophy 2 will be exactly the same at GT5, same menue lay out same tracks just with Bikes rather than cars.

Grab at straws as much as you want, fined as maney meanings to Gran Turismo as you want, but fact is it is

GRAN TURISMO: THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR.

Not

GT: THE LOOSE MEANING NAME THAT CAN MEAN EVERY THING YOU WANT IT TO BE SO IT IS THE REAL DRIVING, RIDING, LAWN MOWERING, LORRY DRIVIN, DOWNHILL MOUNTAIN BIKING, COURIOR SERVICE, TRAIN SIMULATOR, WITH THE OCASIONAL STUNT PLANE THROWN IN, SIMULATOR.

Yes I am being stupid, but it prooves a point. Gran turismo is for cars. so wait for tourist trophy and have hundreds of bikes.

 

[AutoAki]

Sorry to all the people that want bikes in the GT5, but it will never happen. Wait for TT2 it will use the same engine as GT5 anyway.

That's interesting... if it's true, then it would not be something away from GT5, because they are doing that TT2 anyway. I think there will be room enough in Blu-Ray for few bikes.

It would be good promotion opportunity to PD, put few bikes to GT5. I'm more racing-fanatic, than car-fanatic, so I propably could buy TT2 also if it turns out that Bike-racing is also awesome like car-racing.

 

[Ghost_drift]

That's interesting... if it's true, then it would not be something away from GT5, because they are doing that TT2 anyway. I think there will be room enough in Blu-Ray for few bikes.

It would be good promotion opportunity to PD, put few bikes to GT5. I'm more racing-fanatic, than car-fanatic, so I propably could buy TT2 also if it turns out that Bike-racing is also awesome like car-racing.

I agree bike racing is brilliant. But bike games never are. You can never recreate the way when you duck down behined your screen resting your elbows on your knees the way the bike vibrates nothing can come close to it. Cars can be recreated pritty easy. I dont like bike games as I am a big Bike fan. I love my bike and I love my car too. But I can sit behined my G25 and get a decent feeling from driving a car. But you will never recreate a decent feeling bike game ever it is imposible.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Yes but if I was to be anoying like you and try and fined a different meaning for everything apart from what it actualy means.

Then GP would be a game about Doctors

WSB could refer to the WSB house lettings group.

And TT well TT could mean lots of things it could even be a shortened down version of AUDI TT.

But see how stupid you are being. you can fined as maney names for gran turismo as you like. Fact remains the same it means car racing or it wouldnt of been on all the GT titles.

I want to be able to finish GT5 to 100% and if bikes are included then I wont due to all bike games having no emersion at all.

Just type Gran turismo into Google images and see how maney pictures of bikes come up. very simply they dont as Gran Turismo is a car racing game and every one knows it. And every one Knows Grant Turismo means Car racing apart from the people that want Motorbikes in GT5.

I exspect Tourist Trophy 2 will be exactly the same at GT5, same menue lay out same tracks just with Bikes rather than cars.

Grab at straws as much as you want, fined as maney meanings to Gran Turismo as you want, but fact is it is

GRAN TURISMO: THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR.

Not

GT: THE LOOSE MEANING NAME THAT CAN MEAN EVERY THING YOU WANT IT TO BE SO IT IS THE REAL DRIVING, RIDING, LAWN MOWERING, LORRY DRIVIN, DOWNHILL MOUNTAIN BIKING, COURIOR SERVICE, TRAIN SIMULATOR, WITH THE OCASIONAL STUNT PLANE THROWN IN, SIMULATOR.

Yes I am being stupid, but it prooves a point. Gran turismo is for cars. so wait for tourist trophy and have hundreds of bikes.

Haha, I am not clutching at staws, Moto GP is specific, WSB is speciifc, the name GT is not just cars, it has ref to cars and bikes, tho as I explained, it is mostly associated with cars. Doctors are not in anyway associated with the Moto GP championship, well mybe if you crash!, and isn't Rossi's nickname 'The Doctor''! LOL

I think it is you that is clutching at straws my friend. As I said before, just say you don't want bikes and be done with it, instead of trying to justify the name GT having no association with bikes. Yes, GT is a Car game and always has been, but if your justification for not including bikes, is solely in the name being GT, then you are wrong, and I have proven that. The inclusion of bikes is a matter of opinion, and not a matter of fact, in relation to name GT just meaning cars only!

Now becuase of the power of the PS3, the GT series is evolving fast, and evolving into something that was never possible before on the PS2. The addition of bikes can be apart of that wonderfull evolution, GT has always been about wheeled motorsport ,the history the passion and the glory, along with it everything else. Bikes will be just apart of the games natural progression and exspansion.

Do you want a straw with that drink? hehe

And yes, your closing comments were stupid, because boats and courier services, stunt planes do not fall under the umbrella of a Grand touring vehicle, where bikes do.

 

[Ghost_drift]

Please tell me What bike has been referd to as the Gran Turismo please tell me. GT maybe but not Gran Turismo. GT is used for lots of things, but Gran Turismo is not. So I showed you exactly what you where doing by refering to GP as a doctor and what not. How hard is for you to under stand that the Title of the game is Gran Turismo NOT GT.

You keep going on and on about GT being this GT being that. But it is (and I will say it again as you dont seem to grasp it) Gran Turismo. GT is a prefix we use to discus the game, so we dont have to keep typing Gran Turismo.

You have said you have prooved it but you didnt, you posted some long winded post about Grand Tourers all refering to cars, and it did not mention Motorcycles once.

And again go into google images type in Gran Turismo, and tell me how maney pictures of Motor bikes you see. NONE

The game is called Gran Turismo as it is about Car racing. PD didnt sit around a table and say "I know thets call it Gran Turismo as that refers to every kind of transport going"

So reasons for Bikes not to be in Gran Turismo

1. The name of the game is Gran Turismo: The real Driving Simulator
2. Tourist Trophy 2 will be out eventualy
3. Motor cycle game lack the emersion you get in a car game
4. I would rather have more cars than 5 bikes that I will never Ride (enthasis on RIDE)
5. I want to be able to beat the game 100% and if they add Bike racing then that will stop me from doing just that.
6. and this is the main reason. It is CAR racing game and a realistic one, if you want cars and bikes racing in the same races then play Midnight Club.
7. I have never in the 8 years I have been doing Rally Cross, Drifting, and Time Attack, seen or heard about Cars and bikes racing together, unless it is just a normal track day, and even then most tracks seperate the 2.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

GT has always been about wheeled motorsport ,the history the passion and the glory, along with it everything else. Bikes will be just apart of the games natural progression and exspansion.

Do you want a straw with that drink? hehe

And yes, your closing comments were stupid, because boats and courier services, stunt planes do not fall under the umbrella of a Grand touring vehicle, where bikes do.

2008 Yamaha GT 800 Jet Ski

That settles it. Jet skis in Gran Turismo too!

 

[Ghost_drift]

Lmao.

Just thought I would post the full version of what pappaclart posted. very interesting read.

Gran Turismo



Gran Turismo is an Italian term of reference to the "Grand Tour" and roughly translates into English as "Grand Touring" (and in French as "Grand Tourisme").

Characteristics

Grand tourers differ from typical sports cars (e.g. Lotus Elise, Porsche 911) in that they are usually larger, heavier (sometimes more than 3,500 lb (1,600 kg)), and tend to make less compromise in comfort for the sake of driving ability. For this reason, most have front-mounted engines, which leave more space for the cabin than mid-mounted engines. They tend to have softer suspensions to provide good ride quality. They also provide bigger storage space and more accessories. However, grand tourers do have similarities with sports cars, such as their use mainly of rear- or four-wheel drive, and the term sports car may be used to describe a car with grand touring qualities. Very high-performance grand tourers, such as the Aston Martin DB9, Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano, HSV GTS, Nissan GT-R and the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren, may be considered to be supercars.

Because of their powerful engines, grand tourers can still compete with many sports cars in top-speed and acceleration. However, in terms of handling they are a magnitude below sports cars, because of their weight and softer suspension. Grand tourers excel at high speed, long distance travel, or races, and make more practical daily drivers than sports cars.

Classification

In certain professional motorsport classifications, such as the Grand Touring categories promoted by the FIA, the GT car is defined as "an open or closed automobile which has no more than one door on each side and a minimum of two seats situated one on each side of the longitudinal centre line of the car; these two seats must be crossed by the same transversal plane. This car must be able to be used perfectly legally on the open road, and adapted for racing on circuits or closed courses."

Using the above definition, it is still valid to place sport cars such as the Corvette and the 911 in the grand touring category since they do contain many, if not all, the amenities of a grand tourer. However, this weakness in motorsport classification sometimes blurs the line of what is considered a true production grand tourer, and may lead to mis-classification.

Gran Turismo is today almost exclusively thought of in the context of automobiles - this seems especially true in recent years with examples such as the computer game series Gran Turismo (see below) serving to highlight the term's popular perception. Its automobile origins however lie with the "GT" naming tradition emerging from Italy. Manufacturers such as Alfa Romeo, Ferrari and Lancia often designated their cars as Gran Turismo. The 1951 Lancia Aurelia B20 GT, for example being one of the first cars to sport such a name.

The GT term has many variations:

* GTI or GTi - meaning Gran Turismo Iniezione (Grand Touring Injection), first used on the 1961 Maserati 3500 GTI. The Volkswagen Golf GTI (1975) was the first mass produced car to have such a name.
* GTE or GT/E (Einspritzung - a German word for injection) used in Germany and present for example on the Opel Manta GT/E.
* GTO (Gran Turismo Omologato) meaning homologated car for racing (used by Ferrari, Pontiac and Mitsubishi).
* GTA (Gran Turismo Alleggerita) meaning lightened GT car. For example the Alfa Romeo GTA.
* GTAm (modified lightened car). For example the Alfa Romeo GTAm.
* GTB (Gran Turismo Berlinetta) meaning a coupe GT car. For example the Ferrari 328 GTB.
* GTC (Gran Turismo Compact) for example Opel Astra GTC or Gran Turismo Cabriolet for example Bentley Continental GTC or Gran Turismo Coupe for example Ferrari 330 GTC
* GTD, acronym of Gran Turismo Diesel, used by Volkswagen in sport oriented Golf version.
* GTR or GT-R, acronym of Gran Turismo Racing, used in cars like the McLaren F1 GTR and Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR or Nissan GT-R
* GTS (Gran Turismo Spider) meaning a convertible GT car. For example the Ferrari 348 GTS.
* GTV (Gran Turismo Veloce) meaning a fast GT car. For example the Alfa Romeo GTV6.

Today the term Grand Tourer, or Gran Turismo is synonymous with the high-powered sports cars that take part in long distance or endurance races like 24 Hours of Le Mans, Mille Miglia, Targa Florio, Carrera Panamericana. Examples include:

* Dodge Viper GTS-R.
* Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano.
* Saab GT750.
* Aston Martin V12 Vanquish.
* Audi A5.
* BMW 6 Series.
* Mercedes-Benz SL-Class.

After these famous races and cars, several road cars and even computer games adopted the Gran Turismo name:

* Grand tourer, a car designed for comfortable long distance driving.
* Gran Turismo (GT) series of video games developed by Polyphony Digital for a number of Sony's PlayStation platforms.
* Many automobiles integrate GT into their names or use GT to describe a particular trim level.

Examples of contemporary production grand tourers

* AC Frua
* Alfa Romeo 2600
* Alfa Romeo Montreal
* Alfa Romeo Brera
* Alfa Romeo GT
* Aston Martin DB2
* Aston Martin DB Mark III
* Aston Martin DB4
* Aston Martin DB5
* Aston Martin DB6
* Aston Martin V8
* Aston Martin DB7
* Aston Martin DB9
* Aston Martin Vanquish
* Aston Martin DBS
* Audi A5/S5
* Bentley Brooklands Coupé
* Bentley Continental GT Speed
* BMW 8 Series
* BMW 6 Series
* BMW M5
* BMW 3.0 CSL
* Cadillac XLR-V
* Citroën SM
* Datsun 240Z
* De Tomaso Longchamp
* Dodge Challenger R/T
* Ferrari 575M Maranello
* Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
* Ferrari 612 Scaglietti
* Ford GT
* Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
* Ford Thunderbird Super Coupe
* HSV GTS
* Hyundai Genesis Coupe
* Iso Grifo
* Iso Rivolta
* Jaguar XJS
* Jaguar XKR
* Jensen 541S
* Jensen CV8
* Jensen Interceptor
* Lancia Aurelia
* Lexus SC
* Lincoln Mark VII LSC
* Lincoln Mark VIII
* Maserati 3500 GT
* Maserati GranTurismo
* Mercedes-Benz CL-Class
* Mercedes-Benz S-Class/SEC Coupe
* Mercedes-Benz SL-Class
* Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren
* Mitsubishi GTO
* Monteverdi High Speed
* Nissan GT-R
* Porsche 911 Turbo
* Porsche 928
* Saab GT750
* Subaru SVX
* Toyota 2000GT
* Toyota Soarer
* Triumph GT6
* Volvo 780
* Volkswagen R32

So can anyone spot the part about Motorbikes in the definition of Gran Turismo?

 

[CyborgGT]

Yes, as pappaclart acknowledged, "grand tour" does usually refer to cars, but it CAN refer to bikes.

Here's an example, translated from the Dutch Suzuki site.

Popular GSX650F has to last season to have proved a real sport-loving all-rounder. The pleasant veelzijdigheid of this model is lifted thanks to GSX650F the Grand Touring version to a higher level. The fancy paying they trunks and the top trunk bearer increase the luggage capacity considerable, whereas adjustable vario-windscherm conduct file wind comfortably concerning the driver. Moreover the extra assembled middenbok facilitate the periodic maintenance.

It's already been proven that Polyphony isn't strict about what kinds of vehicles go in their game, with the Formula GT and Nike One. Are either of those grand tourers? No. Are most cars in GT grand tourers? Hell no.

 

[Ghost_drift]

Did you even read the clarification of Grand Turismo. And how it is now referd to as general car racing.

And wow what a great bike, I know thets add the sluggish GSX-F, and Goldwing to GT5 as they have been classed a gran tourer. dont make me laghe.

Fact remains bike games suck, and allways will suck. No realism at all.

 

[CyborgGT]

When did I suggest that particular bike to be added? It's just proof that grand touring is not only a style of car, but a style of driving. Trying to preach about how "grand tour" only refers to cars when it doesn't is a waste of your time.

Hey, it's fine if you don't want to race bikes in a game. Here's a novel idea: if they do make it into GT, ignore them. Guess what? All those bike games that you seem to hate so much are enjoyed by millions of others! Why should everyone that would like GT to branch out into more motorsports be held back because of your personal desires?

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Bicycles in Gran Turismo!

I know, odd....but if it has "GT" in the name, it must be included, right?

 

[Ghost_drift]

When did I suggest that particular bike to be added? It's just proof that grand touring is not only a style of car, but a style of driving. Trying to preach about how "grand tour" only refers to cars when it doesn't is a waste of your time.

Hey, it's fine if you don't want to race bikes in a game. Here's a novel idea: if they do make it into GT, ignore them. Guess what? All those bike games that you seem to hate so much are enjoyed by millions of others! Why should everyone that would like GT to branch out into more motorsports be held back because of your personal desires?

And the millions of people that enjoy Gran Turismo because it is car game and Gran Turismo on any dictionary web site and any picture search only brings up cars. And about ignoring them, well there in lies the problem. If I want 100% I wont be able to ignore them will I as you can garentee if there is a Bike in Gran Turismo there will be a bike race.

But you are right I shouldn't moan, As the makers of the game, Polyphony Digital know (unlike you) that Gran Turismo is car racing and in such, will only include cars.

So carry on posting as much stuff saying that Gran Turismo does not refer to only car racing, you just look stupid. EVERY site refers to Gran Turismo as purely car racing. It is only you and Pappaclart, that think Gran Turismo refers to every mode of tranport under the sun.

 

[Ghost_drift]

Bicycles in Gran Turismo!

I know, odd....but if it has "GT" in the name, it must be included, right?

According to cyborgGT and Pappaclart it would seem that way yes.

 

[CyborgGT]

I just proved that everyone does NOT refer to grand touring as just for cars!

You can't win an argument, so you turn it into a joke?

Googling "grand tourer", boats and watches come up on the first page. They're mysteriously lacking wheels. Hmm, a Fuji mountain bike, a snowmobile, all coming up, yet they are not cars. Whoa, page 4, a motorcycle!!! Hot damn, the world's goin' all topsy-turvy.

 

[Ghost_drift]

I have won the argument several times over, you and pappa dont seem to get the gyst that Gran turismo is and always will be referd to as car racing, even when sites like Wiki state it very clearly. Gran Turismo is car racing not motorbike racing.

And probably a very big point here, why would PD even add bikes to Gran Turismo 5 (notice I have to keep refering to it as Gran Turismo 5 Rather than GT5 just incase you get confised again) when they will be releasing TT 2 witch is all about bikes. they will loose money if people can do the same thing in Gran Turismo as they can in Tourist Trophy. Two games = twice the profit. even if they do just delete the cars and replace them with bikes.

 

[CyborgGT]

How has my proving you wrong won you the argument? When was TT2 announced? Who says that if bikes appeared in GT5, Polyphony would even bother making a separate game for them? Who says developing two games would be cheaper for Polyphony than developing just one?

I don't recall Tourist Trophy selling nearly as well as GT4 (or any other GT game for that matter).

 

[Ghost_drift]

How has my proving you wrong won you the argument? When was TT2 announced? Who says that if bikes appeared in GT5, Polyphony would even bother making a separate game for them? Who says developing two games would be cheaper for Polyphony than developing just one?

I don't recall Tourist Trophy selling nearly as well as GT4 (or any other GT game for that matter).

Thats the point though pointless trying to make you see sence as you wont listene to any body else. I have posted up Wiki's low down on the meaning of Gran Turismo and every time I do you post a GSX-F touring motor bike telling us that Gran turismo is about GSX-F's as well as car racing, sorry but you have not prooved me wrong at all. All you have prooved is your lack to read what is in front of you.

And the reason for GT selling better than Tourist Trophy is more people are like me in the fact that bike games suck, as they dont provide you with the emersion into real bike racing, due to rubbish controls.

And why would PD develop 2 games, all they would have to do is model the bikes and make the phisics, and then use the GT5 engine. (like they used the gt4 engine with tourist trophy)

And it's not Rocket Science to figure out why 2 games is better than one. but again you seem to have missed the bit about 2 games making twice the prothet.

If they make Tourist Trophy 2 they will use GT5 take out the cars and add in the bikes. Like I said it will take just as long to model motorbikes for GT5 as it would for them to model them for tourist trophy 2, then allowing them to release 2 games and make more prophet.

Oh and one more thing.

I suggest you look on the front cover of tourist trophy.

Tourist Trophy: The Real Riding Simulator

Gran Turismo: The Real Driving Simulator

seems only you feel that ride a car. pd seem to think you drive a car and ride a motorbike, i agree with them on this.

 

[Lain]

Did you even read the clarification of Grand Turismo. And how it is now referd to as general car racing.

And wow what a great bike, I know thets add the sluggish GSX-F, and Goldwing to GT5 as they have been classed a gran tourer. dont make me laghe.

Fact remains bike games suck, and allways will suck. No realism at all.

So what? Just because a game is called something doesn't mean it strictly follows its title... just look at Final Fantasy, for crying out loud!

Everyone seemed to miss my very logical reasoning as to why it's more likely that Tourist Trophy 2 will just be a DLC expansion for GT5 than be a full standalone title:

Just face it. There will be no bikes in GT5.

GT = Cars
TT = Bikes

Simple as that...

Almost.

GT1, 2, 3, and 4 = Cars
TT1 = Bikes

Mark my words: If "TT2" isn't an included part of GT5, then it will be downloadable content for GT5. Since TT1 pretty much used GT4's engine with modified physics, it'd make more sense to distribute TT2 as DLC for GT5, since it'd be less efficient to release the game on Blu-ray when you can easily just piggyback on a lot of GT5's code and graphics.

Reason why TT1 was not part of GT4: Limited DVD disk space, and PS2's lack of hard drive and network to distribute downloadable content.

Since all those issues have been resolved with the PS3, it would be smarter for PD to just release TT2 as a GT5 add-on. Most people interested in a TT2 are probably GT fans, anyway, so why not? The few sales they'd lose for making TT2 a GT5 add-on would be more than made up by the fact that they wouldn't have to produce a physical copy of the game.

Plus, it'd be a win for us fans as well: If bikes are included in GT5 from the start, then great! You're basically getting two games for the price of one. If you don't like the bikes, don't use them. It's that simple. And if bikes are a DLC add-on for GT5, then it'd be optional for the people who don't want to have to use bikes to achieve 100% completion. And it'd most certainly be cheaper than if TT2 were a full retail game at $60.