MSN 1.5hr Manufacturer's Endurance Race Series

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Cold Warrior
As of now I should be free next Saturday. However since my brother's birthday is the 31st. Depending on what he wants to do it. We could end up doing something on Saturday. If that's the case I'll have to miss about.

Oh, and July 25th is my birthday.
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bloodyboyblue
Haha we have the same birthday! That’s weird. It seems like we’re both born in 1990 as well.
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Happy Birthday Young'ins!
:cheers::cheers:
 
bloodyboyblue
Haha we have the same birthday! That’s weird. It seems like we’re both born in 1990 as well.
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Same day and same year. Well happy birthday then. Were you also born at 7:59pm Eastern Daylight Savings?
 
micantony
I can't wait to see how this race shakes out. Should be a good track for the cars that might not have the high straight away speeds, but have good tire management and handling instead. It will even out the playing field from some of the high speed tracks we've run. There are a couple long straights too, so who knows.
Of course, our most talented drivers seem to get the best out of any situation :bowdown:; I envy their skill and consistency in that regard. Fun to watch and learn from.:cheers:

A couple months ago Cleanracer and I ran several laps here. Audi vs the 4C. And i had him for the first 3-4 laps, but then after that he reeled me in and eventually took over during the longer stints. So many curvy parts with all kinds of variation to them. It will take practice to get the most out of this track IMO.
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micantony
Yep, that was the first 2 laps, LOL.
Now show the part when my tires started to go and you were 2 seconds faster in the second half of the lap through the twisty bits...:lol:

or better yet, dont. :irked:
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I think I still have the replay.;)
 
I have to change the car rule for the rest of this season.
Because the majority of all the good cars are claimed by our full time members it doesn't leave many desirable cars on the Available car list.

So the issue I'm starting to have is more and more of our regular members keep missing races each month who have desirable cars. So this leaves me with to many spots to fill and no good cars for people to choose from.

Starting today if your missing the next race on our schedule your car will now be available only to someone signing up to filling those spots and your car will only be available to them on the races you miss. Hopefully this will get more people interested in racing if there is a car worth a damn for them to race.

I will give this a try and see how it goes. But If this new change doesn't work well then I will scrap the whole rule of Everyone must run a different Gr.4 car.
It will take some of the fun & balance out of our races but might keep the races full every month.
 
One idea I have in mind is changing this Endurance Series into a Gr.4 One Make Series. Racing a different Gr.4 car each month and letting a different member choose the Gr.4 car for that month. The member who picks the Gr.4 car will not let anyone know their choice until we are in the lobby on race day.
 
I know this is your baby, but I personally never found the appeal of having a single driver per car. Maybe allowing two drivers per car would be nice. You can have a rival in the same car as you to see which one of you can drive it better. This way if someone picks a car you like, you can also pick it and show them who's better with it :)
 
DesertPenguin
I know this is your baby, but I personally never found the appeal of having a single driver per car. Maybe allowing two drivers per car would be nice. You can have a rival in the same car as you to see which one of you can drive it better. This way if someone picks a car you like, you can also pick it and show them who's better with it :)
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Because each car is different and requires different strategies during the race. Cars also behave differently from track to track. Just like in real racing. Once you start allowing more than one person to run the same car then its just that many more people who will be dominant during that race who are driving the same car. I see this time and time again in other people's races.
 
Rinsky
One idea I have in mind is changing this Endurance Series into a Gr.4 One Make Series. Racing a different Gr.4 car each month and letting a different member choose the Gr.4 car for that month. The member who picks the Gr.4 car will not let anyone know their choice until we are in the lobby on race day.
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I think this is a pretty good idea. When I race online for fun in lobbies I drive a different car for each race. Some people you recognize are always in the same car, there are so many cars why drive the same one every time you race. I am sure I could run faster laps if I drove the same car every time I went out on track but I have yet to receive any sort of prize for winning lobby races so I would rather experience all of the cars. Who knows, maybe the best car is still to be found if you stick with it.
 
Rinsky
Because each car is different and requires different strategies during the race. Cars also behave differently from track to track. Just like in real racing. Once you start allowing more than one person to run the same car then its just that many more people who will be dominant during that race who are driving the same car. I see this time and time again in other people's races.
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That's why I said only two drivers per car. You're in control of your own series. In my Blancpain series I limited it to 4 drivers per car so no one car gets picked and dominated. Sure, we have 4 Mercs, 4 Astons and 4 BMWs but people still picked other cars and not everyone in each of those cars races in the same division. Four may be too many for you, that's why I suggested two. Just have a single rival car to have fun with, nothing more than that. I'm well aware of your concerns for meta cars taking over.
 
The issue has never been having everyone run a different Gr.4 car and for a 1.5hr race it has worked out better than I could have imagined.

Example.
My Porsche is not a strong car on short runs and almost everyone else's car is better but 8 or so laps into the race my cars starts become strong and that's when I make up my ground into the longer runs. But the moment I let more people use the Porsche I lose that advantage to them. The same goes with every other Gr.4 because they all have their strong & weak points.
@micantony car is another great example.

Having everyone run a different Gr.4 car while making them use that car all year long is part of the challenge. Because you have to learn how & when to get the most out of it to stay competitive and it's a very satisfying feeling.
Now this might not work for short races but it definitely has worked for 1.5hr endurance races.

My problem is 5 or 6 people are missing every month and there are just not enough cars that people want to fill those spots if I keep those members cars locked down.
 
You say "that many more people" and "let more people use...", I'm just talking about one person. You're talking like I want to open the floodgates. No worries man, I don't want that either.
 
DesertPenguin
You say "that many more people" and "let more people use...", I'm just talking about one person. You're talking like I want to open the floodgates. No worries man, I don't want that either.
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I know what your saying and if I was to ever do this I definitely wouldn't open the floodgates.


fastone371
I think this is a pretty good idea. When I race online for fun in lobbies I drive a different car for each race. Some people you recognize are always in the same car, there are so many cars why drive the same one every time you race. I am sure I could run faster laps if I drove the same car every time I went out on track but I have yet to receive any sort of prize for winning lobby races so I would rather experience all of the cars. Who knows, maybe the best car is still to be found if you stick with it.
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I would also let another member pick the track location.

So we would have one member choose a Gr.4 car then another member choose the track location without sharing any of those details with anyone. Then once in the lobby on race day we all would be given both the car & track and everyone would only have 45 minutes with the combo before the race begins.
 
I also like your idea of a one-make race. I always like one-make events. Puts the skill in the driver and not the car. But what if you made it only two cars? Make a sort of car rivalry themed race.
 
I’ve never really got the whole different cars/different strategy thing. Sure there’s like 25 or whatever cars but there’s really only 5 or 6 different cars once you consider the drivetrain and performance. A lot of them have basically the same characteristics and require the same driving style and strategy.
 
You've always got people with brand loyalty like in real life. My parents while over time had different brands of cars, as we as kids grew up and through now we've always had Toyota. They work for us and always get good deals at the place we go. So I would pick the Toyota if I could for that reason.
 
I like the idea allowing ether 2 of car model or manufacturer. Difference is that manufacturer limit would make both Renault's count towards the same limit. Same thing if any other manufacturer gains a second car.

Anyways 2 cars limit would us the chance to have teammate cars. You seemed like the idea of teammates for the multi class race.

I do not like the one make mystery car idea. The difference in car performance makes harder for the same people to win every week. I didn't sign up for a game show. So I'm out if you go this route. Plus I doubt everyone owns every Gr.4 car. Not everyone is a car collector.
 
bloodyboyblue
I’ve never really got the whole different cars/different strategy thing. Sure there’s like 25 or whatever cars but there’s really only 5 or 6 different cars once you consider the drivetrain and performance. A lot of them have basically the same characteristics and require the same driving style and strategy.
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Thay might have some of the same characteristics but they can still be vastly different cars when it comes to fuel & tire wear strategies. Let's take the Porsche, 4C and the Ferrari for example. All of 3 of them are mid engine cars which drive and handle basically the same way but none of them share the same fuel & tire wear characteristics and that's what separates them in a 1.5hr race. As tire wear comes into play or the car gets lighter as the fuel load decreases they definitely start to change and each car becomes unique in the way you have to deal with those changes.
This is the point I'm trying to make However I don't feel PD did this on purpose so I can't say every Gr.4 car is different from another one that shares the same driveline layout. I would have to test every car out against others in its class for long periods of time to say for sure but after the amount of time we have spent racing in this Series and getting to look back over that period of time its very unlikely there are two cars identical to eachother.

If these were short stint races or I had fuel and tire wear off then more cars would be closely matched all race long.

DesertPenguin
You've always got people with brand loyalty like in real life. My parents while over time had different brands of cars, as we as kids grew up and through now we've always had Toyota. They work for us and always get good deals at the place we go. So I would pick the Toyota if I could for that reason.
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Cold Warrior
I like the idea allowing ether 2 of car model or manufacturer. Difference is that manufacturer limit would make both Renault's count towards the same limit. Same thing if any other manufacturer gains a second car.

Anyways 2 cars limit would us the chance to have teammate cars. You seemed like the idea of teammates for the multi class race.

I do not like the one make mystery car idea. The difference in car performance makes harder for the same people to win every week. I didn't sign up for a game show. So I'm out if you go this route. Plus I doubt everyone owns every Gr.4 car. Not everyone is a car collector.
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I fully understand that in real racing there is more than one make or manufacturer that runs in every Series. The difference is even though they look the same they are vastly different from eachother because of setups. In our race they would be exactly the same car with no tuning and BOP turned on and nothing to separate them apart but the driver only.
Yes the easiest fix for this is to allow tuning but that's something I'm completely against for this Series.
Honestly how many people really understand Suspension setups? Probably not very many people who play this game but there would be enough people to make it a very unfair advantage.
Learning something like this in real life is not something that's done overnight and takes years to understand what changes your making will actually help the car and this will change from track to track & race to race.

But this is a game and there are more people who learn how to game the setup system than people who actually know how to tune. Most people look to copy someone else's tune anyway when it comes to playing any GT game.
One of the few things PD got right with GTS was making most of the game free from tuning as they even said most people just don't understand it.
So I'm just not willing to open the tuning can of worms for our Series.

If enough members want to run two of each car then I will do it but I just hate the idea of becoming like almost every other Gr series. Being different is not always a bad thing and it has worked well so far.
 
First of all yes Gran Turismo Sport is a video game. I really hope people are aware of this by now. That being I like my racing to be as realistic as possible. That's why I like heavy damage it gives a sense of real world consequences for hitting things. And motivated you to drive more carefully.

I'm not suggesting unlimited. Restricted each car to a limited of 2. Doing will more choices for better cars but, still keep everyone from using the same car. It may make things more competitive if people are in a car they actually like. Out of all the on the to be claimed list. The BMW is probably the best overall but, it has the worst fuel range in the Gr.4 class. Unless you're good at saving fuel you'll out range no one.

It's not that I don't like one-makes but, feel that is getting to far away from where this series started. I like the difference in performances. I makes me look forward for tracks that will suit my car.

Plus the mystery car thing would ruin making liveries for everyone. I'm not looking to waste my time making new liveries for all 27 (if I'm counting right) Gr.4 every month.

As for the not tuning thing. While I admit not everyone knows how to tune. I myself understand Transmission, Downforce, and Braking. But, I do scratch my add head suspension and differential.

With that being said. I feel this series is a great environment for learning how to tune. Since we don't compete for points. And everyone wants go racing There's not as much motive to not help inexperienced tuners.

P.S. If this not a video game. Where is my garage of 150 cars, my prize money, and all my trophies and ribbons. Though I'm sure if really want the GT Sport trophy. I have no I what that is. All I know is that I find it creepy.
 
I am open to having new car selection rules as well. In another series I have participated in, they allow a max number of four cars that are the same model. This allows almost anyone to get the car they want while keeping the playing field somewhat even. With sixteen in a lobby, that would be a minimum of four different models per race. Personally, I would lower the number to two or three. This would make a minimum of eight or six models per race.
 
I think all the GR4 cars can be competitive if you practice with your car enough, that's what BOP does. The only real limitation is the FF cars with tire wear on, they chew up tires too fast but with the Audi and Megane you also get cars that out accelerate the rest. It's about figuring out how to overcome your cars short comings with some cars.
 

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