new details just confirmed by Turn-10

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I didn't realise they were giving every car the autovista treatment. That's insane.
 
Terronium-12
Oh, I was just about as disappointed as anyone else, but to then weigh a $500 purchase on the sole inclusion of two features, let alone one just seems foolish to me. However I will say things were kind of compensated for with open-wheel racing.
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Another way to think about it is that for $1000+ the game better be pretty damn special. I don't see that right now especially with Assetto Corsa being released this year.

MS and Turn 10 had a big opportunity to hook some GT fans into switching to Forza and the XBox but everything that I have seen so far is driving me away.

We are less than 6 months from release and they don't even have the physics close to finished. That scares me.
 
I have to agree with the others that are saying that Dan's ambiguity about car count (saying "hundreds" as opposed to "over 500") likely means a smaller car count.

As long as they were smart about their selection process, then I won't be too upset.
 
Spagetti69
I didn't realise they were giving every car the autovista treatment. That's insane.
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I don't want to say I called it, but... I called it.

What will be interesting is to see how many of the DLC cars return. I've been assuming all new cars were built to Autovista specs, but we're saved for FM5.
 
Terronium-12
Oh, I was just about as disappointed as anyone else, but to then weigh a $500 purchase on the sole inclusion of two features, let alone one just seems foolish to me. However I will say things were kind of compensated for with open-wheel racing.
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Oh absolutely it's about far more than those two features for me, I was already highly unlikely to buy the Xbox One after everything I'd heard but Forza 5 was still making me think about it, slightly. However after hearing that it's seemingly just going to be prettier and not much else it compounded it, no buy. I'll wait until the Xbox One is cheaper and Forza 6 is released, hopefully a game that seems like truly next gen.

Open wheel racing is good but again, it's something I expected so it wasn't really a surprise. I also expected night and weather so that was a surprise but not a good one.
 
Zathra5_
Another way to think about it is that for $1000+ the game better be pretty damn special. I don't see that right now especially with Assetto Corsa being released this year.
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Again, if you're spending 1000+ for a single game I think your money could be better spent elsewhere. Groceries, for example.

That doesn't make the point any less contrived.

MS and Turn 10 had a big opportunity to hook some GT fans into switching to Forza and the XBox but everything that I have seen so far is driving me away.
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Are we talking about in the case of the One and FM5 or in general, because if it's the latter that's already happened.

We are less than 6 months from release and they don't even have the physics close to finished. That scares me.
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I don't understand how, especially when they've already said between now and the summer the demo is going to change rather drastically.
 
Samus
Oh absolutely it's about far more than those two features for me, I was already highly unlikely to buy the Xbox One after everything I'd heard but Forza 5 was still making me think about it, slightly. However after hearing that it's seemingly just going to be prettier and not much else it compounded it, no buy. I'll wait until the Xbox One is cheaper and Forza 6 is released, hopefully a game that seems like truly next gen.

Open wheel racing is good but again, it's something I expected so it wasn't really a surprise. I also expected night and weather so that was a surprise but not a good one.
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So if GT6 has weather and day/night, does that make it Next Gen?

I mean, screw the advanced physics that we still know almost nothing about.
 
Zathra5_
We are less than 6 months from release and they don't even have the physics close to finished. That scares me.
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Is this true? I'm sure they will meet the deadline on that.

To be fair GT released with a work in progress physics model. I base my reasoning on the fact that the physics are constantly fiddled with in that series.

Dan has said the game can be changed post release if needed. I'm not a huge fan of changing physics mid way through a games life cycle. Unless there's a glaring error. Leader boards and tunings are all rendered worthless, losing a lot of work put in by the players.
 
HAL20XX
So if GT6 has weather and day/night, does that make it Next Gen?

I mean, screw the advanced physics that we still know almost nothing about.
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No because GT5 already has that. If GT7 on PS4 doesn't do anything new, anything that seems like a leap forward over PS3 games I'll be disappointed as well.

Forza didn't have weather/night on the 360 for what we were told were hardware limitations so for Forza 5 to include both it would have been a leap forward on the next generation. They could/should have done them with much more detail than anyone else, as well.

More advanced physics are great, of course, and they very well may be a huge leap forward but I'd still be looking for more. Something that really made me think this was a next gen game. At the moment it's really not looking like a huge leap forward overall, it's seeming like a rushed launch title and that FM6 will present the big leap.
 
Samus
it's seeming like a rushed launch title and that FM6 will present the big leap.
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That's it in a nutshell.

F5 has to meet the launch date, end of.
If Dan had set the team on weather and dirt snow etc, it would have been a risk.

1080p 60FPS is a must (probably an easy target in all honesty).
Autovista level for all cars (surprised me on that one) was a must too it seems.

We still don't know the full feature set. I believe that weather and time will come to Forza at some point. I think it will be available on all tracks too. My reasoning is that the game engine will be designed to add time and weather adhoc.

Open wheel cars have long been requested by the Forza faithful and I'm sure that was a priority for F5. Too many classic open wheelers would be missed otherwise.

Forza 4 was only two years ago.

GT reached for the moon in its ambitions. Dirt,Snow,Dynamic weather/time etc. In many regards it reached those lofty goals, in sake of other areas though.

GT6 will be a very interesting title for me. I'll get it for sure.
What interests me the most is to see how far they can get, in let's face it, basically the full life span of the console. I hope they can.
 
Terronium-12
Again, if you're spending 1000+ for a single game I think your money could be better spent elsewhere. Groceries, for example.

That doesn't make the point any less contrived.
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What does buying groceries have to do with it? Talk about a contrived argument. To play Forza5 "properly," I would need to buy an Xbox 1 at $500, a wheel at probably $600, Forza5 at $60, and extend my xbox gold membership at say $35. That's a lot more than the competition. I would need to pay around $59 for GT6, Probably similar for Assetto Corsa, $40 to extend my rFactor2 license or stick with iRacing for free for the next 2 years. So again, Forza5 would have to be pretty damn special. But you are correct. My money would be better spent elsewhere.
 
Zathra5_
Another way to think about it is that for $1000+ the game better be pretty damn special. I don't see that right now especially with Assetto Corsa being released this year.

MS and Turn 10 had a big opportunity to hook some GT fans into switching to Forza and the XBox but everything that I have seen so far is driving me away.

We are less than 6 months from release and they don't even have the physics close to finished. That scares me.
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Where did you come up with $1,000+ ?? :dunce:
 
MuoNiuLa
Xbox One + FM5 + Thrustmaster wheel.
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You don't need a wheel to play the game, so that cuts the price to about $560 excluding tax.

As for no night racing or weather racing? Good. I've never liked either of those features in games. For whatever reason developers seem to equate a wet road to mean covered in ice. When it comes to night I've never really seen a convincing reproduction of what it's like to drive by the headlights, GT5 was the worse night driving I've ever experienced in a game since every car had what equated to candles in frost glass jars.
 
Joey D
You don't need a wheel to play the game, so that cuts the price to about $560 excluding tax.
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I tried that at first with Forza4. It's not an acceptable solution, especially when my wheel works with every other game that I play.
 
Zathra5_
I tried that at first with Forza4. It's not an acceptable solution, especially when my wheel works with every other game that I play.
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Acceptable or not, Joey is correct. You do not need a wheel to play the game.

This isn't Flight Simulator.
 
I hope they have an arcade mode similar to GT5 where you can do more than 2/3 laps outside of career mode.
 
McLaren
Acceptable or not, Joey is correct. You do not need a wheel to play the game.

This isn't Flight Simulator.
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So what? That doesn't change the fact that it would cost me over a $1000 to play the game "properly". By "properly" I mean in a way that would be acceptable to me. I don't care what it would cost other people. Just what it would cost me.
 
Oh wow this thread suuure got into a arguement. But I do agree with others though. I find it rather silly that T10 aren't willing to do weather or even night racing STILL, even on the XB1. All games are doing it, why can't T10? This is next generation and you need to tell me you can't do night and weather? The hell T10?

I'm starting to believe that FM5 is all eye candy and not the actual game itself, they even went ahead and taken out SF and AH. :\ And I doubt the excuse is due to physics, T10 just don't want to do it imo. pCARS is even simulating weather with the physics also.
 
Did they confirm more than a 550 car garage? I don't care too much about weather, I always avoid bad weather anyway and driving at night is, meh...something I'd rarely do anyway.

I am glad to see open wheel though.

But I think if I am going to get an xbox one, it'll be later on in the life cycle.


Jerome
 
I don't even care about Porsche after what happened with FM4. It was great in FM3 and in fact Porsche was one of my most driven manufacturers in FM3. It's not the fact that the experience was spoiled by the news but I just moved on. There are so many other cars/manufacturers out there. While I'll still continue supporting Porsche outside of the gaming world I still can't calm my erect middle finger that's pointing towards EA lol.

Also, how the hell did MS let EA slip away with Ferrari?
 
Jump_Ace
Did they confirm more than a 550 car garage? I don't care too much about weather, I always avoid bad weather anyway and driving at night is, meh...something I'd rarely do anyway.

I am glad to see open wheel though.

But I think if I am going to get an xbox one, it'll be later on in the life cycle.


Jerome
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The only numbers we have at the moment for car count is 200-300.
 
ReverenceSatans
The only numbers we have at the moment for car count is 200-300.
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Source?
I've heard "hundreds of cars" only. Where did you hear anything more specific?
 
LOL just as I epected... T10 has been doing absolutely nothing for two years (again). Oh wait, Whats that you say? EVERY CAR IN AUTOVISTA?!?!?!?! Yesssssssss!!!!! :dunce:
Are we even sure more than a handful of folks are even employed by T10? If so, whatare they doing all day?
 
posimosh
LOL just as I epected... T10 has been doing absolutely nothing for two years (again). Oh wait, Whats that you say? EVERY CAR IN AUTOVISTA?!?!?!?! Yesssssssss!!!!! :dunce:
Are we even sure more than a handful of folks are even employed by T10? If so, whatare they doing all day?
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Developing FM5.
 
Wolfe
Mr Latte has a perfectly valid point, which is that Forza Motorsport isn't much of a "motorsport" game. It's more like a private track day simulator. If it were a true motorsport simulator, the format and process of racing would have more depth, and other features would be given precedence (eg. fuel/tires and pitting, flags, qualifying, etc.).

What he said has nothing to do with turning aids off, and it has nothing to do with the physics, or how "difficult" they are. He's just pointing out that the lack of night or weather reflect upon Turn 10's priorities in delivering a driving experience instead of a motorsports experience.
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You pretty much get what I mean.
Its not so much about difficulty as it is creating more realism or replicating components of real racing series across the globe. Will we have flags, pit car advanced tyre wear, blow-outs of tyres/engines and more realistic handling physics? Anyone that doesn't agree can point out how the series has grown to compete to titles like iracing, Asetto Corsa, Project Cars etc. Look guys Forza is different and this isn't being negative just taking the franchise as what it is.

At episode 5 they should be at least providing weather. All this talk of "Cloud" yet still no rain Dan, lol. Okay seriously though it is easy to see why some are dissatisfied with this decision.

Instead we get more beautiful Auto Vista with real paint.
Sure that is great but does it enhance the racing or increase the realism?
Mind you that paint with rain on it, reflecting the moon would look even more incredible. It is a shame though is all as adding night/weather would of added to the playability.

Perhaps though this is a further example of "Making car lovers into gamers" and "Gamers into car lovers" that motto is why Forza will continue to put beauty of cars and making the game accessible to a wide audience over truly focusing on simulation of real racing.

The game could be great and beautiful but just more of the same flavour as what it has been before. How it will be judged is likely going to be not how it has moved on since FM4 but how it compares to all the racing games that appear over the next year.
 
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Mr Latte
Perhaps though this is a further example of "Making car lovers into gamers" and "Gamers into car lovers" that motto is why Forza will continue to put beauty of cars and making the game accessible to a wide audience over truly focusing on simulation of real racing.
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This pretty much sums it up. T10 understands that creating a product that is too niche will decrease your market share. That's why I think most people find that what they want in the game is never completely fulfilled. Their improvements are more spread out, which is why it feels that they haven't made enough improvements.
 
ReverenceSatans
It's the fact they have failed to deliver some of, if not THE most requested community features time and time and time again. Add to this just how bad X1 and microsoft policies are, they can't just go around ignoring the community anymore. Why would I buy an underpowered, overpriced anti consumer device for a game that can't even get feature parity with it's last gen rival?

They have MORE than enough power to do it. They simple don't care enough about what the players actually want to implement it.
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Hear Hear! :cheers:
 
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