New PSM Issue #95 - New Gran Turismo News as Well as Review

  • Thread starter Thread starter birkmeyer03
  • 155 comments
  • 10,587 views
Hey Cobra...you may be absolutely right...and I think if Enthusia is better...hey, I'll be on board, too...what worries me is that you continue to include Forza in alot of your statements...cool game...but doesn't begin to hold a candle to GT...not from a real life appreciation perspective anyway...not my opinion either...did you see Laguna Seca yet in Forza?...eww...

...but I am afraid you are still missing the point...

This web site is for Gran Turismo...if you are going to bash it, go to Enthusia web sites post there, please...you're bringing me down.

But hey! I look forward to playing Enthusia just as much as anyone..and I may be posting right along with you in the future...but there is an awful lot of people here...like me...that want this favorite guilty pleasure called Gran Turismo 4.
 
Cosmic
Your problem is ,you excepted to much.
Click to expand...


honestly, the smartest thing i have read in this thread thus far.

every game developer loves to market their game as "the holy grail of games" and 95% of you fell for it, and then, when you found out it wasn't as perfect as you hoped, you all started complaining.

as a programmer, i understand what goes into the development of a good game/program. AI programming isn't as easy as it may sound, there are people in the business who's sole job is to script AI, it almost IS rocket science. To emulate the human brain down to a presice science is one of the hardest things to do and there are programmers that have been doing it for 20 years and can't produce much more advanced AI than GT4.

there are always conflicts, a simple line of code thats got a minor error in it can cause the complete rebuilding of an entire engine, sometimes the better idea is to cut a feature rather than spend valuable time and money to break everything so you can put it back together again.

now, i'm dissapointed with some of the cut features and some things that i would have liked to see, but expecting perfection from inherantly flawed human beings is complete insanity, and every human being is flawed, that is human nature.

from a programmer's perspective, GT4 IS leaps and bounds ahead of where is was(mind you, this is going based upon "word of mouth", vids, and screenshots, therefore i still reseve final judgement for when i actually have the game in hand)

honestly, as much as i would like to see Damage, i understand that they are already pushing the PS2 to its limits. most people don't understand that the PS2 is just a computer, and like any computer it can only do so much. asking KY and PD to give GT4 everything that Forza has is like telling a Half-Life 1 modder to create Half-life 2 using the Half-Life 1 engine, sure its possible, but alot will be missing due to the fact that the original engine just can't handle whats needed. in a more Human sence, its like asking an Autistic person to write the works of Shakespear, its just not gonna happen, or at least, not without some miracle-induced luck.

now, i understand that enthusia has damage and is "more realistic"(once again, we'll see when we get it) but they decided to sacrifice quantity of cars/tracks and reduce features to get that AI and Realism. it uses the same platform, but the way it was designed was directed completely at another aspect of Automotive culture. some people enjoy the racing, some enjoy the cars, some enjoy both. GT4 aims for the car-lovers, enthusia aims for the Racing-lovers, Forza is "trying" to aim for both, whether they succeed or not is up for debate.

you know why i love GT4? because of the sheer selection, because i'm looking forward to takeing piss-poor crap-cars, tuning them up and putting them head-to-head with supercar beasts. i'm looking forward to seeing the differences in handling and design between all generations of Skylines/Evos/etc(however small the difference may be)

i'm buying GT4 for the cars, the racing is important, but as a distant second. i'll be buying Enthusia for the racing. and i'll buy Forza as well, but i'm not expecting a god-send
 
ScottinPA
Hey Cobra...you may be absolutely right...and I think if Enthusia is better...hey, I'll be on board, too...what worries me is that you continue to include Forza in alot of your statements...cool game...but doesn't begin to hold a candle to GT...not from a real life appreciation perspective anyway...not my opinion either...did you see Laguna Seca yet in Forza?...eww...

...but I am afraid you are still missing the point...

This web site is for Gran Turismo...if you are going to bash it, go to Enthusia web sites post there, please...you're bringing me down.

But hey! I look forward to playing Enthusia just as much as anyone..and I may be posting right along with you in the future...but there is an awful lot of people here...like me...that want this favorite guilty pleasure called Gran Turismo 4.
Click to expand...

I agree with him. :) they're all games and yea GT4 is or may not be the best...but its still a game that no matter what is wrong with it Im gonna get it. Atleast u know your not buying crap. And if Enthusia is good too then I'll get it too, and even if Forza is good...why not? i like racing and I like racing games. The more the better, just as long as they're good games.
 
rbush83
Where do I buy these special "physics seeing" goggles? Silly me I've been busy feeling the effects of physics my whole life.

I think it would be wise to actually wait for Enthusia to be released before trying to compare the two. Maybe it will be more pleasing than GT4, maybe it won't. Let's just wait and see, or, feel.
Click to expand...

Don't be an a** rbush83. You see ScottinPA and incubusnb came up with some good statements. However you came up with that? Pathetic. And by the way you can see and feel physics in motion. Seeing a car dip it's rear as it accelerates from still, seeing it roll or dip it's front end under braking, that is seeing physics in motion. Please don't be sarcastic and stupid at the same time. It's a bad combination. ;)

Guys you are right, we'll have to wait and see on Enthusia and Forza Motorsport. As for GT4 I believe I made a strong case as to why I'm dissapointed with it. Just as you have made a strong case why you like it. Perhaps it's personal preference. Perhaps we are all right in our own way. So I'll rest my case...

We'll pick this up in March ey? :)
 
Cobra uk i dont think you have much place here too be honest, Calling people fanboys etc when most people here just honestly LIKE gran turismo, most of the points you bring up are crap. things like 3d wheels wow makes a massive diffrence esspecially when there spinning so fast you shouldnt even be able too see the spokes. Most games that do have 3d spining wheels look plain wrong they dont blur like they should it ends up looking like the wheels spin far too slowly
 
now now, Akak...be nice..

Cobra is right...we all have our preferences and I think he sees that.

Cobra...one of my favorite things to do was to start Complex String, go through the first right/left turn (the one where most drivers may cheat through) and because of the replay cameras, it was fun to spin out, burn out, etc...then watch the replay...I always got a kick out of watching whatever car I was using tilt while turning, stopping, excelerating/hitting the brakes...

It seems you think that GT3 didn't do that for you...I did it all of the time...

I'm confused..
 
incubusnb
You know why i love GT4? because of the sheer selection, because I'm looking forward to taking piss-poor crap-cars, tuning them up and putting them head-to-head with supercar beasts.
Click to expand...

How exactly will you do that, you can't tell me that pitting your stage tuned car against a s**t AI will make for a realistic match or race. Oh you want to do it in 2 player against a fellow petrol-head that's also a good match for your driving skills? You can't. No garage cars in 2 player.

And the racing you say you don't care much about. Fair dues, here's how you can do it. Play the game in B-spec and get money, slowly but surely. Then buy your car and stage tune it. Then your options are to, well, drive the car and take pictures. No point in racing AI, it's lame, and you can't do 2 player, just stock cars there. So just drive the track of your choice, by yourself, and record the time and see if you can compare it with other friends that play GT4. Take some pictures of your car, print them etc. That's cool man. Maybe when I mellow out a bit I'll get into that.

Now I need frantic races with expertly individualy tuned cars against human opponents and to be able to taunt them on the voice headset. It's the future man! Multiplayer is so much better than single player. Of course then I want to be able to save the replays and watch them later over a beer and a joint. 👍

Oh and GT3 was better for me than GT4. Honest to god. 2 player garage races kept me going for more than a year after I completed the game. But I can't do that in GT4. :(

OK OK I said I was gonna zipp it. :) Sorry, Cobra_UK out.
 
Cobra Cobra Cobra.....

your smoking right now aren't you?....

You took incubuses words and swapped them...read his post again, please.
Well, I am jealous of two things that you have that I don't...

1). You obviously have alot of friends to play with (two player, two player, two player, etc.)...I don't...most of us don't...

and number 2). ...you're havin' some fun, arent you?...smokey..:)

oh yea...3...you're problably playing GT4 right now...damn...:(
 
uh oh Cobra (Mr. 2 player/Seacrest out)...looks like your dream has come true...

better go and check out some of the new posts....if you haven't passed out yet...;)
 
Eh from videos of Enthusia what i've seen is bloody good looking, nicely modeled cars, scenery that doesn't get all blurry and the way you can see the cars suspension travels looks lovely. That and the touge courses make me want to buy it, I have a feeling that it isn't going to be such a large game as GT4 but who knows.
 
Sorry man but I took an exact copy of what he wrote, honest, look at his post.

My girlfriend is telling me I have way to much time on my hands to type this stuff and I should do more housework. I hope she's joking. I'm typing this, smoking yes :dopey:, having a Grolsch beer and my friend Paul and his brother are playing some GT4 but in a bit we'll be playing, guess what? GT3, we'll have a garage cars tournament and the a cup £10 for the winner of the tournament. £15 for the cup winner. Today we're racing FR with 300BHP max power, track is Midfield. Markus is our referee for any collisions, no questions asked. Can't remember last time I won. :lol: Stu is the best because he uses manual gears and analogue acceleration and braking and well coz he has no life apart from GT3.

Well I need to make some coffee, duty calls. Later people.
 
I think overall we all expect alot from a series that we've "grown up with" especially A game that has taken so long to reach our systems. I love GT4 Because of its car selection, I count it only at around 450-500, discounted re-used modles such as the 56 skylines etc etc.

It has the most American cars ever seen in a racing game! (except maybe tied with GT2, God i wish they had added the Buick GSX and a few Road Runners) but overall I'm happy with it. I cant wait to play it, and I cant wait to mess around with Photshop and Photomode, I have alot of high expectations just like everyone else, but I dont expect it to meet every one of them.

as for Forza, heck yeah im looking forward to it! but im not an Xbox gamer, I hate that system for my own reasons, I dont count down the days to go pick it up, I dont froth at the mouth when new Pictures are shown, something about the game Turns me off slightly, I cant put my finger on it, It just doesnt Do me like GT4.

When I see new Shots with GT4 its like "oh man I cant wait to do that!" it's going to be a great game, that I know, But Not Perfection, maybe eventually (probably by GT8 at this rate) i'll get what I really want out of it, To me, the PS2 hardware is junk, and to make a game that beautiful on it, shocks me. but as for Forza, For a system that powerful It look horrible, I dont understand it.

as for Enthusia I'll read up on it more as time comes, but as for right now, Im not going to clammer to its websites, I want to enjoy my GT4 when I get it. wheither it be good. Or bad, I'll make that decision, just like everyone else will theirs.

But, I have alot ALOT of friends that play games with me, and I wont lie, If GT takes the option of 2player Garage battle out, A feature thats been in every other GT, That will hurt. that will hurt alot.

To me that says:

"Once your done with a car, and you cant compete with it in Simulation mode, Sell it, It has no use anymore."

That hurts PD.
 
I would like to add a quote in which I left out in my initial post:

"True, the AI pack no longer follows an identical racing line, and they sometimes tap you as you pass, but they still don't come close to taking advantage of opportunities off the racing line the way any real driver would."

(The Bold section is the part that I left out) So for all you that don't already have the game this may help your opinion about AI slightly.

Also they do mention how Sony is still putting finishing touches on the U.S. version of GT4, and granted for everything from magazines, you have to consider the time it takes to print and deliver the issue, so there could be several bits of information that was left out

Just thought I'd throw those things out there. 👍


-Birkmeyer03
 
ChristmasGTO
I think overall we all expect alot from a series that we've "grown up with" especially A game that has taken so long to reach our systems. I love GT4 Because of its car selection, I count it only at around 450-500, discounted re-used modles such as the 56 skylines etc etc.

It has the most American cars ever seen in a racing game! (except maybe tied with GT2, God i wish they had added the Buick GSX and a few Road Runners) but overall I'm happy with it. I cant wait to play it, and I cant wait to mess around with Photshop and Photomode, I have alot of high expectations just like everyone else, but I dont expect it to meet every one of them.

as for Forza, heck yeah im looking forward to it! but im not an Xbox gamer, I hate that system for my own reasons, I dont count down the days to go pick it up, I dont froth at the mouth when new Pictures are shown, something about the game Turns me off slightly, I cant put my finger on it, It just doesnt Do me like GT4.

When I see new Shots with GT4 its like "oh man I cant wait to do that!" it's going to be a great game, that I know, But Not Perfection, maybe eventually (probably by GT8 at this rate) i'll get what I really want out of it, To me, the PS2 hardware is junk, and to make a game that beautiful on it, shocks me. but as for Forza, For a system that powerful It look horrible, I dont understand it.

as for Enthusia I'll read up on it more as time comes, but as for right now, Im not going to clammer to its websites, I want to enjoy my GT4 when I get it. wheither it be good. Or bad, I'll make that decision, just like everyone else will theirs.

But, I have alot ALOT of friends that play games with me, and I wont lie, If GT takes the option of 2player Garage battle out, A feature thats been in every other GT, That will hurt. that will hurt alot.

To me that says:

"Once your done with a car, and you cant compete with it in Simulation mode, Sell it, It has no use anymore."

That hurts PD.
Click to expand...


the differences in visual betwen GT4 and Forza lies in the art direction. Even thought the xbox has more power then the PS2, Forza Motosports team has focus on Tire and car physics, very advance AI and car damage modeling. It certainly taxe the cpu processor. don't forget online implementation is a big part of Forza and this is where the game will shine

For once Microsoft has takes the right direction, focus on gameplay then visual. It's funny to see that because it use to be the exact opposite. there is still around 2month for the Forza team to polish the games but i don't expect anything different beside a stable framerate and a few adjustement.

Overall it will be a good quality product but it's only a stepping stone for Forza Motosports 2. They are building the foundation of what is going to be a long and lasting franchise. It just need a bit of "Next-Gen" love to reach is full potential.
 
As true as all that is, if the GT4 Online Mode does indeed show its pretty head in the near future, that could be a tremendous leap if its able to keep all of its graphics, with an online mode up to 4-8 players that would be insain. especially for the PS2.

Im really not impressed with "tire tracks" or the such, damage is nice, but if its going to be done, it'd need to be done right, like "Slam into a wall at 200 mph game over" not "You lost your front bumper!" in no way is that realistic, A car should be almost a complete heap of rubble after a 200mph wreck. not a lost bumper. so for that reason im not into Forza's damage.

It'd be nice for it to be able to be toggled on and off so that younger kids could play it, and then when they get good enough they can turn it on. :)

On the other hand the customizings really cool I'm all about Paint schemes and such, thats a nice feature, especially for an Online mode.

And like someone made a post about tracks earlier on compaired to Forza, I'd want increadibly realistic tracks like GT4, not just Generic Copys.

But Forza 2 Might have a bit more potential, none of the cars in Forza 1 Jump out at me and say "hey im original!" except the 68 GTO.

And plus to me, lighting is EVERYTHING, especially for reflections. I like in Getting blinded by the sun in GT3. Anywho we'll just have to wait and see a real comparison when both Forza and GT4 are out :)
 
Cobra_UK
There are reports of bugs and glitches all over this forum. It doesn't matter, you probably got your GT googles on and would ignore what anybody says bad about GT4 and twist it so it looks like they're talking s**t.

BUGS, I have been a game tester on 6 games now, on various platforms. I also work in software and audio engineering. Don't try to tell me what software BUGS are!

:lol: You re a 1st class idiot. ;)
Click to expand...

First off, the job title is "Beta Tester" which first denotes that you are not telling the truth. Second, you must be playing bottom line software titles, since anyone with a major market share, such as PD, Bungie, EA, etc, had their OWN quality control center, which leads them to NOT use out sourced beta testers. And if you work in software and audio engineering, then you should know exactly what bugs are, and would know that there aren't any sever bugs present in GT4.

I have played MANY more preview and review builds of games, and know, much more than you, what is and isn't a bug. If you want to go toe to toe we can, however you run the risk of losing face, which you seem to be proud to defend.

Case in point, I have owned GT4 since day one, and I will recieve my review copy next week, and have played many more hours than you could have possibly invested on your friends chipped PS2, a console that isn't even in your household.

Try not to sound so uninformed about the industry and maybe someone will take your word as more than random key strokes flowing from your fingertips.
 
I don't think GT4 is the problem here, other than it not having the online which PD said would be in, it's not missing anything they've promised I think many people have expected too much.

However I have to say, although I can't wait to get a copy for myself in English I am still somewhat dissapointed with GT4,, the only way I can explain this is to acceptthat like so many of us here, I've expected too much from GT4. The problem is, when comparing it to say Forza, Forza on paper at leastt is offering more depth, better AI, online, in other words it seems a more interesting game to me.

I'm not knocking GT4, I love it, but it's not progresses since GT1 in any other ways than the graphics and car count. Okay the AI is slightly better, but in any races more than 3 laps it's still the same case of racing aginst yourself once you get the lead.

Kaz has done a great job and made the unargualbly best GT to date, however the competition iscatching on very fast, and I want more from my games than a career system and realistic handling.

IMO of GT4 from what I've plaed of the Japanese version I'd rate GT4 an 8.5/10, yes it's the best but it's the fourth time weve done it all and it's not much different to the last. Maybe I'd give it a 9 when I get the English version since I will no doubt get more from the game, but still a game like this SHOULD be a 10 in my mind.
 
Cobra_UK
Don't be an a** rbush83. You see ScottinPA and incubusnb came up with some good statements. However you came up with that? Pathetic.
Click to expand...


But rbush83 made a valid point!
(I actually agreed with him!)

How can you compare GT4 (on limited distribuation at the moment) to Enthusia which isn't even out yet? If you have the $50,000 dollar answer, I'm all ears & I think everyone here would love enjoy hearing from you the person you know personally that gave you a copy of Enthusia to play, for however long it would take, for you to come to a logical conclusion that Enthusia is better then GT4...because whether it is or not can't be determined until BOTH games have been released world/country/region wide...and enough 'so called experts' have had the sufficient 'grace period' to declare one game over another...
 
Don't complain about any multiplayer features. Online will come soon enough for you. Then you will play against humans instead of computers.
 
incubusnb
every game developer loves to market their game as "the holy grail of games" and 95% of you fell for it, and then, when you found out it wasn't as perfect as you hoped, you all started complaining.

as a programmer, i understand what goes into the development of a good game/program. AI programming isn't as easy as it may sound, there are people in the business who's sole job is to script AI, it almost IS rocket science. To emulate the human brain down to a presice science is one of the hardest things to do and there are programmers that have been doing it for 20 years and can't produce much more advanced AI than GT4.

there are always conflicts, a simple line of code thats got a minor error in it can cause the complete rebuilding of an entire engine, sometimes the better idea is to cut a feature rather than spend valuable time and money to break everything so you can put it back together again.

now, i'm dissapointed with some of the cut features and some things that i would have liked to see, but expecting perfection from inherantly flawed human beings is complete insanity, and every human being is flawed, that is human nature.

from a programmer's perspective, GT4 IS leaps and bounds ahead of where is was(mind you, this is going based upon "word of mouth", vids, and screenshots, therefore i still reseve final judgement for when i actually have the game in hand)
Click to expand...

PD & Sony are the kings of hype, however they haven't fufilled a number of things people expected would be in. For instance race mods (they said they'd be back), online (The no.1 feature boasted as being new for GT4), parts wear (I remember this from the 'early' info (chassis refresh doesn't really count), night/day track selection (Pretty sure this was mentioned in a PD interview at one point), weather selection for some tracks (I'd assumed this had meant more than 1... as in GT3), better AI (yes its improved, but not by far enough)...no 2 player garage races (in JPN release atleast)... theres probably more things too.

People might say this was a lot to ask for, but then GT4 has been delayed for a year & a half, with a large gap since GT3 & its now 7+ years since GT1. Apart from obvious physics & graphics enhancements, GT has changed very little. Now I don't think I expected alot from GT4, but I did expect it to take GT to the next level which it hasn't. So yet again its 'Well I wonder if they will sort the problems in GT5 :rolleyes:'

As for AI, I know this is difficult to do as I've done a course in it. But even so the AI in GT is crap, all it appears to do is the AI attempts to stay on preset lines throughout the track. Yes its improved a little in GT4 but not enough yet again! Meanwhile games like Race Driver have fairly decent AI.

Now before people start shouting 'Witch!!!!', I've been a big fan of GT since I first saw/played it but I can't help but feel the series is running around in circles. Meanwhile the competition is getting better, but it seems PD are to arrogant towards this & continue to produce more of the same, but a bit better. (This isn't saying I expect the next GT to be a story based game or something stupid). Yes I will buy GT4, yes I will enjoy GT4 but I'll wonder what the wait has been for & how long it will be till the GT series entry actually fixes its main flaws (Which I'd be suprised if GT5 does this).

Blimey this post is nearly as long as one of John's.
 
The only thing in GT4 that Sony or PD actually said WOULD be in that isn't, is the online mode. They never said racing models, Kaz quite clearly said body kits, lo and behold you can install custom rear wings on your cars.

Like I wa saying, we were all expecting too much. More than was promised.
 
To all the GT4 haters...

The game is still going to own, weather you like it or not :sly:
 
Wow what the hell. Christ Cobra don't get your knickers in a twist.

I hope for your sake those two unproven games of yours don't turn out to be lemons because MY GOD you're sure gonna look like a jerk if they do.
 
Well I might be wrong but I remember an interview where they said race mods would return, but not for all the cars & that some cars would have body kits (Which I wouldn't count a spoiler as a body kit really). But I may be wrong.

As for what they promise, well most developers promise little (for a good reason) & whilst some of things that we all hoped would make an appearance, but didn't, I still expected something relatively fundamental would be new (After all it is a sequel...), but unless you count photomode or B-spec as fundamental, I don't see much.

It seems some people of this forum get the idea that GT is created by KY & a couple of his buddies & whilst this is a nice image it isn't true. I believe the team behind has 70+ people now, many with a large amount of experience so we are right to expect a lot. After all we pay their wages & they know it (hence the increasing amount of special editions *cough* cash-ins *cough* :)
 
T5-R
Well I might be wrong but I remember an interview where they said race mods would return, but not for all the cars & that some cars would have body kits (Which I wouldn't count a spoiler as a body kit really). But I may be wrong.

As for what they promise, well most developers promise little (for a good reason) & whilst some of things that we all hoped would make an appearance, but didn't, I still expected something relatively fundamental would be new (After all it is a sequel...), but unless you count photomode or B-spec as fundamental, I don't see much.

It seems some people of this forum get the idea that GT is created by KY & a couple of his buddies & whilst this is a nice image it isn't true. I believe the team behind has 70+ people now, many with a large amount of experience so we are right to expect a lot. After all we pay their wages & they know it (hence the increasing amount of special editions *cough* cash-ins *cough* :)
Click to expand...

Oh noes it's a conspiracy! Why the hell did you believe that stuff about the racing mods. It's so damn obvious they were never gonna come back.

I even remember KY hinting at the same time that not only were they very unsure about the racing mods but that they might go for wings instead. Oh look what happened.

KY was also unsure about online. Didn't that that strike you as odd? You'd think he would be "OH IT'S GONNA BE IN 100% NO DOUBT WEEE!!" wouldn't you? He was trying to sell the damn game wasn't he?

Oh and don't be surprised if online GT4 never sees the light of day. :)
 
as a programmer, i understand what goes into the development of a good game/program. AI programming isn't as easy as it may sound, there are people in the business who's sole job is to script AI, it almost IS rocket science. To emulate the human brain down to a presice science is one of the hardest things to do and there are programmers that have been doing it for 20 years and can't produce much more advanced AI than GT4.
Click to expand...

It seems that a team of three Live for Speed developers are rocketscientists, because they have made a good AI system. Most racinggames of lesser developers seem to have a more challenging AI than GT4 so there is not really an excuse for a bad AI.
 
l33tc4k30fd00m
Oh noes it's a conspiracy! Why the hell did you believe that stuff about the racing mods. It's so damn obvious they were never gonna come back.

I even remember KY hinting at the same time that not only were they very unsure about the racing mods but that they might go for wings instead. Oh look what happened.

KY was also unsure about online. Didn't that that strike you as odd? You'd think he would be "OH IT'S GONNA BE IN 100% NO DOUBT WEEE!!" wouldn't you? He was trying to sell the damn game wasn't he?

Oh and don't be surprised if online GT4 never sees the light of day. :)
Click to expand...

Hindsight is a wonderful thing ;)

They said online would be in, fact. Going by vague memories it was even considered in GT3 but they axed it early on. The excuses PD have for lack of online are pretty lame in my opinion.
 
I've been looking forward to GT4 practically since my father and I got disappointed with GT3. We're huge racing fans and spent tons of evenings together running each other ragged in time trials in GT2.

To this day, Dad remains at least a tenth faster than me at Trial Mountain.

I was very excited about GT4 up until the complete car list was posted. That's when I saw some of the shortcuts that were taken. For instance, look at the MG car list. Two cars, the MGF (which has been a Gran Turismo staple since GT2) and the MG TF160 which was a freshening of the F.

Never mind that the F is the second most forgettable car MG has ever produced (the MG Rover hatchback of the 80's is slightly more forgettable), but think of the cars they've left out.

mgb.jpg


MGB

MGC%20GTS.jpg


MGC GTS

lola_mg_ex257_01.jpg


MG/Lola EX257

Ignoring three of the most historically significant cars to wear the Abingdon Octagon is just one flaw.

Lets go on.

Look at the Nissan choices. There's one classic Z, the Japan specific 240ZG "long nose". Where's the Safari Rally winning 240Z? the Z432R which housed the infamous S20 DOHC six in its lightweight fiberglass nose? The BRE 240Z which stomped around in SCCA C Production and basically woke the entire WORLD up to the quality of Nissan products?

Or Jaguar? We get the E-type, the XJ220, and then a bunch of fraudulent Ford products. None of the grand Silk Cut Group C cars that won Le Mans (or if tobacco is such a concern, use the IMSA Castrol sponsorship), or how about the Group 44 XJS-12 that gave the mighty Jag V12 wins in the face of big V8 Corvettes? Or the Jaguar D-Type in Ecurie Ecosse blue that flew in the face of the Testa Rossa?

Lancia is wasted too. We get a good S4 and the mandatory Stratos, but the O37 is ignored and the LC2 Group C car is MIA. Not to mention the road going Lancias are all but vapor. No Beta, no Scorpion, no Lambda, no Aurelia. Just the same tired as all get-out Delta Integrale.

If the "historical driving encyclopedia" claim was serious and not just window dressing, why is it the amazing history of so many of their licensed manufacturers was left behind? Is Yamauchi so xenophobically Japanese that he won't allow anything besides a Toyota to be tops in the game unless it's of his own design?

I doubt it, but if Gran Turismo is going to consider itself a "historical driving encyclopedia" then Polyphony needs to attend events like the Goodwood Revival and see truly historical cars running at full bore instead of licking the Skyline GTR's boots.
 
god peoples ignorance drives me insane.

No online is UNDERSTANDABLE.

Microsoft is ONLY successful with online games because they freaking OWN PART OF THE ONLINE MARKET SHARE VIA MSN!!!!!!!!

period. Sony has no such online support internally within their own company....christ.
 
tha_con
god peoples ignorance drives me insane.

No online is UNDERSTANDABLE.

Microsoft is ONLY successful with online games because they freaking OWN PART OF THE ONLINE MARKET SHARE VIA MSN!!!!!!!!

period. Sony has no such online support internally within their own company....christ.
Click to expand...

Funnily enough there are online PS2 games! And what are you saying? Microsoft own the internet? :lol:

Poor little Sony with their little 386 server :( Donate to the Sony charity today, they've only one of the richest electronics companies in the world.
 
Back