New PSM Issue #95 - New Gran Turismo News as Well as Review

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T5-R
Funnily enough there are online PS2 games! And what are you saying? Microsoft own the internet? :lol:

Poor little Sony with their little 386 server :( Donate to the Sony charity today, they've only one of the richest electronics companies in the world.

Funny joke. Sorry I cannot laugh with you.

Funnily enough there are online PS2 games. Do any of them possess the same fanbase that the GT series has? Or even more important, do any of them hit as hard on the PS2 as GT4 does? You fail to understand that network code for games like GT4 require resrouces that just aren't established on any Sony built network. The only company that publishes games for sony that has such an online network is EA, everyone else isn't as readily equipped. That's just their fault, but in comparison to microsoft, it's understandable.

Don't twist my words to make me sound unintelligent by the way. My comment was directed towards the fact that microsoft owns a large portion of the online market share with MSN Internet and they had a well established online system, as well as experience int he field, where as Sony never had such experience.

Now, if that is not simple enough for you to understand, then fine, but I'm not going to argue with someone who is only here to argue for the sake of participating in an arguement.
 
tha_con
Funny joke. Sorry I cannot laugh with you.

Funnily enough there are online PS2 games. Do any of them possess the same fanbase that the GT series has? Or even more important, do any of them hit as hard on the PS2 as GT4 does? You fail to understand that network code for games like GT4 require resrouces that just aren't established on any Sony built network. The only company that publishes games for sony that has such an online network is EA, everyone else isn't as readily equipped. That's just their fault, but in comparison to microsoft, it's understandable.

Don't twist my words to make me sound unintelligent by the way. My comment was directed towards the fact that microsoft owns a large portion of the online market share with MSN Internet and they had a well established online system, as well as experience int he field, where as Sony never had such experience.

Now, if that is not simple enough for you to understand, then fine, but I'm not going to argue with someone who is only here to argue for the sake of participating in an arguement.

There are plenty of online racing games, most will generate just as much internet traffic as GT4 (Some even feature cars which can roll over, shock I know) & most don't rely on a load of big expensive servers to run games. All Sony would have to do is redirect users to find games (or even a company like Gamespy to do it for them), the games of which are hosted on another users machine. This is how most online games work & I fail to see why a large company like Sony/PD can't manage this when small development studios can.

The most likely reason behind it is that the PS2 itself simply can't handle it.
 
T5-R
Hindsight is a wonderful thing ;)

They said online would be in, fact. Going by vague memories it was even considered in GT3 but they axed it early on. The excuses PD have for lack of online are pretty lame in my opinion.

Hey it's your fault if you didn't read the signs.

The big flashing neon ones with speakers playing "HAW HAW GT4 ISN'T GONNA HAVE ONLINE" over and over again at 120 db.
 
T5-R
There are plenty of online racing games, most will generate just as much internet traffic as GT4 (Some even feature cars which can roll over, shock I know) & most don't rely on a load of big expensive servers to run games. All Sony would have to do is redirect users to find games (or even a company like Gamespy to do it for them), the games of which are hosted on another users machine. This is how most online games work & I fail to see why a large company like Sony/PD can't manage this when small development studios can.

The most likely reason behind it is that the PS2 itself simply can't handle it.


Yes, read my post, I asked how many games hit hard on PS2 like GT4. I agree with you.

As far as using GameSpy, no. GameSpy sucks hardcore, and I would wish that no company use it.

The other racing titles that are online, such as toca, are much more simple in their presentation and poly count, etc, they don't hit the system as hard, thus they are able to have online presentation with ease.

But don't make it seem like there is no reason for GT4 to not be online. If you weigh all the factors, it's easy to understand. It's just limitations of hardware and resources. Think, if it can only run 6 cars on a screen at one time, how do you think they are going to achieve 6 cars running on different machines across a country? It just doesn't happen too easily. GT4 is just too much for PS2 to handle.

That is all I'm going to leave it at :)
 
UK, I'm not calling your cobra because that's my name :P

But you want to see body roll
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/9694/dynamics41ue.jpg

http://img127.exs.cx/img127/4896/dynamics0nd.jpg
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/9104/dynamics27qr.jpg
http://img90.exs.cx/img90/8695/127fn.jpg
http://img90.exs.cx/img90/8163/98nv.jpg
now if that's not body roll I dont know what the hell is.

and here's a vid of a chevelle SS
http://www.team-ir.org/gt4vids/chevelle.mp4
Look at how the wheel dips in the wheel well or how the weight in the back of the car makes it fish tail.
Look at this drift vid
http://overdrift.hp.infoseek.co.jp/movie/RB_0115.lzh
Look at the weight transfers, like how the car snaps to the left, right, etc. UK, dont even come to me or anyone else with that bs about gt4 not having realistic body roll or weight. As you can see in the media I posted, there's realistic body roll and weight transfer
 
I think CobraUK is talking about the cars rolling over completely, not just pitching or leaning.
 
^^^ he really couldn't possibly know half as much as he claims since he only has the opportunity to play at his friends house.

Then of course he may bring up the fact that he's a "game tester"....*laughs...falls on floor*

Nice Chevelle vid btw.
 
live4speed
I think CobraUK is talking about the cars rolling over completely, not just pitching or leaning.

We'll probably not see this in any recent GT game. While they want it to be as realistic as possible, they don't want an unenjoyable series. They do have to make money, and things like this would certainly turn off a lot of the mainstream fanbase that doesn't care much about physics, etc.
 
I don't think many people do know all that much about GT4. I think too many people with little or no time playing it have listened to the few people that were dissapointed with GT4 after it's release, and you know what people are like, they love to moan about something.

As anyone here will say, GT4 is the best GT to date by far, and since almost everyone here has and 90+% of them still plays GT3 they should have nothing to fear.
 
Actually, PSM screwed up in this review.

I quote
"...you notice some photorealistic bit of scenery or get so absorbed in scoping out another car that you wipe out. Side by side, it trounces GT3."

If GT4 trounces GT3, then why does GT3 have a 10 and GT4 has a 9.0?

They gave GT4 a 9 b/c...
1)It has no online
2)No damage modeling
3)No signifcant AI upgrades


Ok 1 and 2, PSM has lived without. If they gave GT3 a hit without this stuff a 10, then why is this no different?
B/c it seems someone gave them a good kick in the a** to review harder it seems.
 
live4speed
I don't think many people do know all that much about GT4. I think too many people have listened to the few people that were dissapointed with GT4 after it's release, and you know what people are like, they love to moan about something.

As anyone here will say, GT4 is the best GT to date by far, and since almost everyone here has and 90+% of them still plays GT3 they should have nothing to fear.


True. I'm supposed to get my review copy of the US build sometime next week, I'll see if it actually comes through, lol. The last time my boss got a game to me ontime was....well Forza, hahahahahaha....before that...he'd keep them and send them like once per quarter :( So I could see the build AFTER I buy it...dammit.

I plan on capping some vids that show off a lot of the crazy instances where you can lose control, i.e. how it happens without assists etc, since many people aren't capping vids like this. It should give people a good idea of how running off the track can effect you, etc, and how over powering turns etc can throw you off the track. Hopefully it will be an enjoyable vid, haha.
 
Cool, I look forward to it.

And McLarenF1GTR, scoring for games out today can not be compared to the score a game got 3 to 4 years ago. What was the enchmark then isn't still the benchmark now. I think a 9/10 is fair, it's still the best, it just hasn't done much new.
 
McLaren F1GTR
Actually, PSM screwed up in this review.

I quote
"...you notice some photorealistic bit of scenery or get so absorbed in scoping out another car that you wipe out. Side by side, it trounces GT3."

If GT4 trounces GT3, then why does GT3 have a 10 and GT4 has a 9.0?

They gave GT4 a 9 b/c...
1)It has no online
2)No damage modeling
3)No signifcant AI upgrades


Ok 1 and 2, PSM has lived without. If they gave GT3 a hit without this stuff a 10, then why is this no different?
B/c it seems someone gave them a good kick in the a** to review harder it seems.


As I said, these guy's aren't really gamers IMO. I've met a good number of the staff there from last E3...and I don't like them. Honestly, they are dicks (excuse my language).

They are just rating the game this way because it's been delayed so much. And in all honesty, the only reason they are REVIEWING the IMPORT is because We did the SAME THING....a month ago.

Everyone else had just given impressions, in fact I believe we were the first site in the US to actually review the import. They usually are on a bandwagon trip, but that's them. Don't pay much attention to what they say, IMO, these guy's are more about "what could have been done" than what is really in the game.
 
I think everybody is dwelling on the negatives too much.

No Damage - DEAL WITH IT. It never has had damage ever before and not only that unless it's real-time like in GT5 go home... Do you really like it when it shows a pre-rendered smashed up car of yours??? I sure don't...

No Online - I have strong faith in PD and I don't ever recall them to say that they will release something and they don't. It will come... Be patient.. Cmon boys FAITH! :sly:

Poor A.I. - GET OVER IT. There are VERY few racing games where cars don't drive on lines and does it take away from the enjoyement of driving your own car?? Not for me, and if it does for you, piss off stop whining.

Poor Sound - My ***. This game has the best engine sounds since NFSU2 and beside NFSU2 recorded a Ferrari for the imports.

No 2 Player Memory Card Battles - I'd have to say this is the real killer. I really really loved doing this with my older cousin, we had great times racing each other in GT2, I'm sure many others have memories. Let's just cross our fingers for the US Version supporting 2 player mem card battles. As for the PALers, no problem here.

If you have any other complaints please call 1-800-SCREW-YOURSELF or visit us on the web at www.gt4kicks***goscrewyourself.com

Have a good day. 💡
 
You're right tha_con.

Their review is stupid. First they say it beats a game that has a higher score.
They say no online.

Then why the hell are they even posting a way for you to play online?

Idiots.

This time, I have caught them saying one thing and making the mistake of saying something else contradicts what theyre saying.
They're almost as bad as IGN.
 
Yesterday I bought italian version of PSM, there is a japanese GT4 review. No fresh news for me.
 
2 things:

Mr. Con - as soon as you get your review copy (assuming you are in NA, if you are in Europe ignore this) you must let us all know if there is 2player garage battling.

AdrenalineSRX - the link you have posted does not work for me.
 
Lol, if you thought the link was real you are retarded.

If you were jusk kidding... Hahaha :dopey:
 
There sure are quite a few damn experts for a game that hasn't been released in over half the world. Damn, people chill out.
 
tha_con
god peoples ignorance drives me insane.

No online is UNDERSTANDABLE.

Microsoft is ONLY successful with online games because they freaking OWN PART OF THE ONLINE MARKET SHARE VIA MSN!!!!!!!!

period. Sony has no such online support internally within their own company....christ.

What the hell are you talking about. The fact that you are doing review for a website doesn't make you an expert in the gaming industry. I had respect for you before but your lack of understanding on the nature of xbox live is beyond me.

Let me start by this, The sucess of xbox live is based on a very strong infrastructure that has been planned since Day one. The fact that for the past 2 E3, Microsoft as aimed is focus with the xbox live product shows how serious the company is about this product. They have focus their business around it. The online market share with MSN ? What does it have to do with xbox live ? i would be happy to hear an elaborate explanation on this one...

Sony has no such online support ? Again, I think you are not very inform. Soccom and Soccom was developpe in house by Sony. It's was one of the most played console game online after Halo 2. The mere fact that the lack of storage device included with the ps2 made the online adventure a difficult task. You will see that Playstation 3 will have storage and online infrastructure based on xbox live network.

Your understanding of the gaming industry is limited to your extended beta testing and game reviews abilities.
 
Symtex
What the hell are you talking about. The fact that you are doing review for a website doesn't make you an expert in the gaming industry. I had respect for you before but your lack of understanding on the nature of xbox live is beyond me.

Let me start by this, The sucess of xbox live is based on a very strong infrastructure that has been planned since Day one. The fact that for the past 2 E3, Microsoft as aimed is focus with the xbox live product shows how serious the company is about this product. They have focus their business around it. The online market share with MSN ? What does it have to do with xbox live ? i would be happy to hear an elaborate explanation on this one...

Sony has no such online support ? Again, I think you are not very inform. Soccom and Soccom was developpe in house by Sony. It's was one of the most played console game online after Halo 2. The mere fact that the lack of storage device included with the ps2 made the online adventure a difficult task. You will see that Playstation 3 will have storage and online infrastructure based on xbox live network.

Your understanding of the gaming industry is limited to your extended beta testing and game reviews abilities.

You are right in areas and wrong in areas.

Xbox Live is strong because is has a strong infrastructure. Yes. BUT, the only reason that it has the caliber it does is due to Microsofts involvement with the online market.

I'm not saying MSN is directly RELATED to Xbox Live, I am, however, saying that it was MUCH easier for Microsoft to set up an online infrastructure, because they already had experience and assets necessary to support such a thing. Sony did not have this.

Yes Socom is successful online, however the main focus of the game is online play, and that is what it was created around. GT4, however, was created around a single player experience, and thus, it was coded later to figure out online play. While it was slated and announced early on in the games development, it is VERY easy to tell that it was not the main focus of the development team.

Point blank, PS2 + GT4 + Online is just a lot to handle, and they couldn't get it quite right. Seriously if the game has minor troubles with LAN play, and major problems using tunneling software, what makes you think that playing anyone with a less then superb connection will yeild good results?

Case in point, MicroSoft was better equipped for an online gaming experience, and Xbox Live is superior to any sony online.

Sony was not prepared for an online infrastructure, thus games suffer, and since it wasn't initially planned with PS2, developers can't get a lot of games to work without kinks on PS2.
 
tha_con
You are right in areas and wrong in areas.

Xbox Live is strong because is has a strong infrastructure. Yes. BUT, the only reason that it has the caliber it does is due to Microsofts involvement with the online market.

I'm not saying MSN is directly RELATED to Xbox Live, I am, however, saying that it was MUCH easier for Microsoft to set up an online infrastructure, because they already had experience and assets necessary to support such a thing. Sony did not have this.

Yes Socom is successful online, however the main focus of the game is online play, and that is what it was created around. GT4, however, was created around a single player experience, and thus, it was coded later to figure out online play. While it was slated and announced early on in the games development, it is VERY easy to tell that it was not the main focus of the development team.

Point blank, PS2 + GT4 + Online is just a lot to handle, and they couldn't get it quite right. Seriously if the game has minor troubles with LAN play, and major problems using tunneling software, what makes you think that playing anyone with a less then superb connection will yeild good results?

Case in point, MicroSoft was better equipped for an online gaming experience, and Xbox Live is superior to any sony online.

Sony was not prepared for an online infrastructure, thus games suffer, and since it wasn't initially planned with PS2, developers can't get a lot of games to work without kinks on PS2.

And you can bet your ass sony isn't going to miss the bus on the next go-round. people will call it revolutionary, innovative, and better than sex.

sony may not have experience, but they can hire people with experience. derr.
 
"online infrastructure" or "rat maze", youre still gonna need better hardware than a PS2 to get things running smoothly. sony is still at fault though.
 
AdrenalineSRX
I think everybody is dwelling on the negatives too much.

No Damage - DEAL WITH IT. It never has had damage ever before and not only that unless it's real-time like in GT5 go home... Do you really like it when it shows a pre-rendered smashed up car of yours??? I sure don't...

No Online - I have strong faith in PD and I don't ever recall them to say that they will release something and they don't. It will come... Be patient.. Cmon boys FAITH! :sly:

Poor A.I. - GET OVER IT. There are VERY few racing games where cars don't drive on lines and does it take away from the enjoyement of driving your own car?? Not for me, and if it does for you, piss off stop whining.

Poor Sound - My ***. This game has the best engine sounds since NFSU2 and beside NFSU2 recorded a Ferrari for the imports.

No 2 Player Memory Card Battles - I'd have to say this is the real killer. I really really loved doing this with my older cousin, we had great times racing each other in GT2, I'm sure many others have memories. Let's just cross our fingers for the US Version supporting 2 player mem card battles. As for the PALers, no problem here.

If you have any other complaints please call 1-800-SCREW-YOURSELF or visit us on the web at www.gt4kicks***goscrewyourself.com

Have a good day. 💡


your points are dumb. you just basically told everybody that has problems with aknowledged flaws to get over them. that's like telling fat people to eat less.

What I'm saying is...it's a glandular problem. Oops I meant use your brain before you rationalise things away.

GT4 has flaws, but it's still undeniably righteous. That doesn't change the fact that people are DISAPOINTED, you can't make that go away, and you can't stop them from whining about it. When you're disapointed about something you were eagerly anticipating, it's like a part of you is dead. It's a sinking, hollow feeling that makes you pissy and irritable. Being near a keyboard when you're pissy and irritable produces mixed results.

To me, GT4's title of "the drive of your life" or "the real driving simulator" should just be replaced with "placeholder" or "the last boring one, we promise"

edit:

Just to elaborate on why people are losing their patience with the series, and why people say it's running around in circles: a game being called a driving game is weak. No excuses, it's weak. This is a racing game, you race against other cars on RACE tracks, you don't shuffle around the streets in driving conditions (that would be dull, no?)

Making a game that appeals to certain people because they're obsessive doesn't make it a good game. A game needs good structure, gameplay, challenge, and, hopefully, offers a new experience. Many people here that are DEFENDING THE GAME say racing the a.i. is pointless, that it's a driving game. I don't see any games for gun nuts that just involve you servicing guns and firing them at a range. That would be incredibly dumb and boring. You'd need something to shoot, to add excitement, and cool levels and music, and a story to make a good shooter. Therefore, GT needs a compelling racing dynamic (hopefully the online disk isn't a joke and it doesn't cost full price) to complement the physics. But people buy this "car encyclopedia" bull**** and actually use it in defense of a game that sorely needs shaping up when it comes to the actual gameplay experience.

The fact that other racing games are much more fun to play than GT3 should have been a sufficient kick in the pants for PD to revise their gameplan. But, as T5-R said previously, they seem to arrogant or ignorant of their fans to change the formula. No joking, in a recent interview, Kaz said he didn't make the GT series for fans, but for himself. That kinda says it all.
 
kinigitt
your points are dumb. you just basically told everybody that has problems with aknowledged flaws to get over them. that's like telling fat people to eat less.
LOL, What's wrong with that?

You poor suckers.
I've never played 10 seconds of any of the previous GT games. I've been playing on the PC and only recently got an XBOX.

So when I get a PS2 and pop this baby in and have my first race it'll be a 10/10 for me. :dopey:
 
Drillah
LOL, What's wrong with that?

You poor suckers.
I've never played 10 seconds of any of the previous GT games. I've been playing on the PC and only recently got an XBOX.

So when I get a PS2 and pop this baby in and have my first race it'll be a 10/10 for me. :dopey:

You're in for a treat then. Bring extra underpants.

Unless you've been playing GTR, LFS, or RBR on your PC. then you'll be like "what's the deal?"
 
Thanks to both Jake and Layzie. I also want to know if the "system in which you can play Gran Tursimo 4 online with the download of a free program and a broadband connection" would refer to the XLink. Thanks again.
 
tha_con
You are right in areas and wrong in areas.

Xbox Live is strong because is has a strong infrastructure. Yes. BUT, the only reason that it has the caliber it does is due to Microsofts involvement with the online market.

I'm not saying MSN is directly RELATED to Xbox Live, I am, however, saying that it was MUCH easier for Microsoft to set up an online infrastructure, because they already had experience and assets necessary to support such a thing. Sony did not have this.

Yes Socom is successful online, however the main focus of the game is online play, and that is what it was created around. GT4, however, was created around a single player experience, and thus, it was coded later to figure out online play. While it was slated and announced early on in the games development, it is VERY easy to tell that it was not the main focus of the development team.

Point blank, PS2 + GT4 + Online is just a lot to handle, and they couldn't get it quite right. Seriously if the game has minor troubles with LAN play, and major problems using tunneling software, what makes you think that playing anyone with a less then superb connection will yeild good results?

Case in point, MicroSoft was better equipped for an online gaming experience, and Xbox Live is superior to any sony online.

Sony was not prepared for an online infrastructure, thus games suffer, and since it wasn't initially planned with PS2, developers can't get a lot of games to work without kinks on PS2.

Why is it much easier for microsoft to build a network infrastructure then sony ? Anybody can build network and if you can't do it, you hire someone who can do it. We are talking about companies that make billions each year. so no excuse

The Ps2 hardware was not design for online experience. Sony didn't believe that online console gaming would be that popular and didn't bank on it.

The more I read your post, you are trying to find excuse to defend Sony + KY + PD for they're lack in offering what gamers really wanted. They wanted ONLINE at launch. ask anyone. They have failed miserably and the promise of making an extension for online later is keeping your hopes up. Anyone remember Sega GT online ?

Now Sega is not PD and the chances that the online expension will failed are almost null. The facts remains that you will have to pay top dollars twice to enjoy a feature that should be included in ANY racing games in 2005.
 
Well I just read the posts from last night and I must say I'm pretty shocked. It's not that GT4 is the best or the worst. We were just saying yesterday that it's down to personal preference. It's the way GT4 fans make things personal and ridicule any reasons why people voice their dissapointment with GT4. That's what infuriates me.

When someone has an opinion things go a lot better if you tell them you understand it and respect it, even though you may not agree with it. That works a lot better than trying to discredit them and basically telling them to stick their problem up their a**.
 
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