New update physics discussion

[craste]

I think there should be just one physics instead of proffesional and arcade - that way its more of a true simulater and everybody will soon get used to it.

I think the handling of the cars is a nice improvement cars seem grippier and understeer more.

If you drive any car around a bend it will naturaly understeer/stay neatral - its built in by the manufactures as a safety net.

To oversteer you have to provoke the car by a mixture of steering input/ braking or throttle control or all three together to upset the balance so then you can have some fun.

 

[Havok_]

I wonder why they must change the car physics for every single update. Since the game has come out the car handling has changed 3 times already, if they find so many faults with it why not just get it right and let people get accostomed to it? Instead every time little Billy Blue from who knows where gets mad beacause he can't take a corner at 140 they go and change it. The way it was before this update was much better yet now it's gone a few steps back...(

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Hybrid. Hope you did not say that the physics did not change from gt4 to 5??
Physics, tire physics whatever.. Tings is getting easyer every update. all im asking is that PD dont dumb things down. But hey dont blame them, they want to make money from casual gamers .

No, I didn't. What I tried to say is that the physics didn't get dumped at all. That I hate the fact everytime GT5P is improved, people still keep complaining. It just felt wrong before, so I am sorry for those who don't want or can't appreciate this, really deeply sorry. PD did such an awsome job, I think here should be 1000s of THANK YOU - threads... but no ....
Just trying to clarify this I meant in GT4 the physics haven't changed, only the grip levels depending on the tire choice have... but in GT5P all through Spec I-III the physics haven't changed either, again only the grip levels have... as they obviously where off before.

100% agree with Timpaq though, couldn't have said it better. 👍

 

[Wolfe]

I think there should be just one physics instead of proffesional and arcade - that way its more of a true simulater and everybody will soon get used to it.

Then PD would just go back to the severely compromised, "one-size-fits-all" idea. Sorry, but the vast, overwhelming majority of people who play Gran Turismo cannot handle a realistic physics engine, and Sony has systems and game discs to sell. The average schmuck has an alright time dealing with understeer (they're just left wondering why the car doesn't "turn more" when they keep turning the steering wheel further), but realistic oversteer and spins would drive consumers away in a heartbeat.

Many of us here applauded PD's decision to split the physics engine into two "modes." It's good business, and pleases us enthusiasts.

 

[panjandrum]

Sorry, but the vast, overwhelming majority of people who play Gran Turismo cannot handle a realistic physics engine...

Yes, but from what I see, they want to believe they can, and they are perfectly happy to see us lose the true simulation mode for reasons which are completely incomprehensible. Maybe their egos are so frail that the fact that the can't drive well in "pro" mode drives them nuts.

I'm glad I'm not this way - I play just about any FPS on "easy" or "normal" mode because I'm just not good enough to play them on the more hardcore settings. That's life people, do I want all FPS games to be stupidly easy so that I can pretend I'm good at them and to hell with anyone who wants a difficult one? NO! I'm not that petty. So please stop defending your ridiculous position regarding a true pro mode). Someone in another thread said they should rename "pro" mode something silly like "lame-o" mode so that people who should just be driving "standard" won't feel they have to drive "pro", and then feel bad that they can't (unless they practice practice practice!).

Many of us here applauded PD's decision to split the physics engine into two "modes." It's good business, and pleases us enthusiasts.

Yes, this is very true. Since the August update I've stopped trying to talk other into playing GT5, stopped describing how realistic it is to other gamers, stopped bringing people over for test runs on my system, stopped trying to talk my family and friends into stepping up to the PS3 so we can race online together... I just stopped doing all of that. Not on purpose, but just because I no longer feel like I have any bragging rights.

 

[BLACK86]

OK, did a brief test...

...as I just finished the update and drove f430 just before updating and immediately after the update (S2's only). And I think that the car is now more logical, resposive to drive. It feels more real to me now.. yes, there is maybe more understeer, but it feels right and if you want, it's easy to make the car (f430) oversteery. It feels more like I would imagine it to be IRL. Before this update there was some strange 'thing' that made driving feel less real for me. I really don't know how to describe it, but now it feels more right. Good work PD!! 👍

The thing that I try to describe here is that I've been away for a while now from gt5p and lost a bit of the 'feel' for it. So I was really struggling with the f430 and wondered how the hell did I do that time for the qualifier. I managed after a few laps 2'12.6xx.. lol.. and it was really hard and inconsistent. It just felt wrong.. like my brains didn't understand the way I should have driven the car. I really would have needed quite many laps to get even near to my qualy time.

Then after the update. Magic happened.. ..I was laughing from the first turn of the wheel. I LOVE IT! It's not the point, but I was immediately a sec faster.. and it's due to the logical way the car handles now. It just feels better.. LOVE the responsiveness on the steering.. my brains know now what to do.. lol.. I know this sounds very funny but for me the fun factor is back again. (it could also be that they've changed some parameter in f430, who knows)

Now the physics feel like the first edition, but without the driving on ice feeling. It has been cured but using a better method than on the Aug1st update.

Thanks PD again.. I'm liking this! Now just give us the Suzy600pp - S2's / S1's back!!

i know where you are coming from when you say it just felt wrong, you're brains know what to do now. ive been there a few times with gt5p, thing is tho a tghought used to pop in my head.

but I was immediately a sec faster.. and it's due to the logical way the car handles now.

i think like that too but then i think hang on i dont know how a specific car should behave at such speeds because i never have done it myself. we cant say that the car behaves logical when we have never reacreated what we do in gt5p in realife, we have a good idea i admit, but now we are talking about the finer points of gt5p handling not the obvious points, maybe the points are so fine that we have to actually get out there and do them and only then we have the authority to say such statements.

forgive me im not trying to be rude, as i say i think this about myself too, have you driven fast cars in real life like you do in gt5p, i have not, when was the last time we understeered/oversteered at 100mph?? please im not having a go at you, im talking about myself too, if you have done all the above then GREAT! give us more feedback

all we need is some dude who drives a variety of fast motors to give up their opinion, chronos comes to mind.

if this update is more realistic then i'll embrace it with both arms, im always up for realism, even if it makes the game easy.

(this is to everyone)
if pd are making such realistic mods to the physics engine when they update then why dont they mention it? surely this would be better for them no downfall? all they say is improved control with sixaxis so improved control with a gamepad, we drive cars with wheels in real life(hand and feet) not pads(thumbs and fingers) so they have made mods to the physics for gamepads so theres better control for gamepads...so how can this be more realistic, would be a major coincidence if their tweaking the physics for pad users has made it more realistic

i wish they had the ae86 in gt5p i had that car for five years in real life and went around corners at all speeds, i knew that car well. i could then judge if the ae86 was realistic or not in gt5p.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Yes, but from what I see, they want to believe they can, and they are perfectly happy to see us lose the true simulation mode for reasons which are completely incomprehensible. Maybe their egos are so frail that the fact that the can't drive well in "pro" mode drives them nuts.

I'm glad I'm not this way - I play just about any FPS on "easy" or "normal" mode because I'm just not good enough to play them on the more hardcore settings. That's life people, do I want all FPS games to be stupidly easy so that I can pretend I'm good at them and to hell with anyone who wants a difficult one? NO! I'm not that petty. So please stop defending your ridiculous position regarding a true pro mode). Someone in another thread said they should rename "pro" mode something silly like "lame-o" mode so that people who should just be driving "standard" won't feel they have to drive "pro", and then feel bad that they can't (unless they practice practice practice!).



Yes, this is very true. Since the August update I've stopped trying to talk other into playing GT5, stopped describing how realistic it is to other gamers, stopped bringing people over for test runs on my system, stopped trying to talk my family and friends into stepping up to the PS3 so we can race online together... I just stopped doing all of that. Not on purpose, but just because I no longer feel like I have any bragging rights.

What´s funny is that we share the same opinions, just we make completely different conclusions...
This pro - standard discussion is the worst thing that could happen imo, because now there people thinking ´´hey I can drive I won a race on PRO ´´ and people who think they aren´t good enough for the pro levels and so pass on all the fun.
There should be one ´GT´ mode for all , rather on the sim side of course 👍

But I can predict there will be loads of people complaining about not beeing competetive after a while, because as it is now it doesnt count how much of a good driver you are. It will depend on how good do you race ?! This is how it should be and as for why there is no need to seperate people into PROs and not so PROs...

Oh... btw in GT4 was a 1.6 Clio right? Same car as mine . The only way I could reproduce its RL handling and speed ingame was to put on Simulation tires and really push it. Weird how can this be if the physics was that wrong in GT4 ? Can you or someone explain that , please .

 

[red7]

if pd are making such realistic mods to the physics engine when they update then why dont they mention it?

I was thinking the same thing about these last few updates. Each list of changes never even seems to mention physics, tire models, handling, nothing.
Just a subtle reference to "controllability".

If PD continue to make tweaks like this, I feel gt5 may become something special indeed.

 

[Wolfe]

btw in GT4 was a 1.6 Clio right? Same car as mine . The only way I could reproduce its RL handling and speed ingame was to put on Simulation tires and really push it. Weird how can this be if the physics was that wrong in GT4 ? Can you or someone explain that , please .

GT4 simulates understeer pretty well, but not oversteer. A basic FWD car ought to seem about right, unless it's one of the ones that can mysteriously power oversteer in the game (like the Mk.V GTI, iirc), or one that exhibits remarkably neutral handling in real life.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I was thinking the same thing about these last few updates. Each list of changes never even seems to mention physics, tire models, handling, nothing.
Just a subtle reference to "controllability".

If PD continue to make tweaks like this, I feel gt5 may become something special indeed.

PD always stated there are changes to tire grip and now to controllability for us poor pad users... Never ever did they change the physics engine.
Hell there is no reason for it , physics haven´t changed for the last 14 billion years or so...

 

[BLACK86]

but if tire grip changes physics change too right, well maybe not change, extended and shorten which is a change in itself. hmmmm confusing

 

[Timppaq]

i know where you are coming from when you say it just felt wrong, you're brains know what to do now. ive been there a few times with gt5p, thing is tho a tghought used to pop in my head.

i think like that too but then i think hang on i dont know how a specific car should behave at such speeds because i never have done it myself. we cant say that the car behaves logical when we have never reacreated what we do in gt5p in realife, we have a good idea i admit, but now we are talking about the finer points of gt5p handling not the obvious points, maybe the points are so fine that we have to actually get out there and do them and only then we have the authority to say such statements.

forgive me im not trying to be rude, as i say i think this about myself too, have you driven fast cars in real life like you do in gt5p, i have not, when was the last time we understeered/oversteered at 100mph?? please im not having a go at you, im talking about myself too, if you have done all the above then GREAT! give us more feedback

all we need is some dude who drives a variety of fast motors to give up their opinion, chronos comes to mind.

if this update is more realistic then i'll embrace it with both arms, im always up for realism, even if it makes the game easy.

(this is to everyone)
if pd are making such realistic mods to the physics engine when they update then why dont they mention it? surely this would be better for them no downfall? all they say is improved control with sixaxis so improved control with a gamepad, we drive cars with wheels in real life(hand and feet) not pads(thumbs and fingers) so they have made mods to the physics for gamepads so theres better control for gamepads...so how can this be more realistic, would be a major coincidence if their tweaking the physics for pad users has made it more realistic

i wish they had the ae86 in gt5p i had that car for five years in real life and went around corners at all speeds, i knew that car well. i could then judge if the ae86 was realistic or not in gt5p.

I know what you're after. No, I've not driven these car's in real life. So, no I don't know how they behave in real life. And most of us will never do. So I have to rely on my logic how I think and believe these car's would behave.. and if the game fulfills these expectations then my immersion is ever greater and I enjoy the game much more. I didn't say at any point that now the car's behave just like in real life. I just think that now they act as a dude like me would think they do in real life. So I feel like I'm driving the car, because I believe so. And that's enough for me. I really can't ask much more. All these things said, I really need to get still some more time to test out more different cars and tyres + tunes, but this is my initial feeling. 👍

What is your ultimate measure of simulation? For me, it's me believing that this is like the real thing. I don't need anyone saying is this real or not. I can make my own conclusions, that much I have driven on track.

There are many fellows here that have driven large amount of cars on track, Scaff comes to mind, and I'm sure they'll give their opinion when they've created it. 👍

edit:

OK, did a brief test...

...as I just finished the update and drove f430 just before updating and immediately after the update (S2's only). And I think that the car is now more logical, resposive to drive.

I thought it was clear that I meant my logic...

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

Just had a go with the Amuse S2K with my sixaxis in pro with all aids off and it's great. Feels more planted through fast turns, but still very easy to get it sliding and to lose control. The steering is MUCH better, and IMO much more realistic.

I also noticed that everyone who tried to ram me online simply span themselves out, whereas usually i'd be the one spinning out. I just hope this is a longterm thing, not just a lucky one-off.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

but if tire grip changes physics change too right, well maybe not change, extended and shorten which is a change in itself. hmmmm confusing

Yes its a bit confusing, but my point is most people say the physics-engine has changed , which has not. Or its too easy now, which it may seem, but is not. Its just more realistic now. That is why PD made changes, they want it to be as realistic as possible, not as difficult as possible.

GT4 simulates understeer pretty well, but not oversteer. A basic FWD car ought to seem about right, unless it's one of the ones that can mysteriously power oversteer in the game (like the Mk.V GTI, iirc), or one that exhibits remarkably neutral handling in real life.

Ok I see, but it was basically not entirely wrong?
You mean the Clio with neutral handling, do you. Because it really is . If I ever slides( round a corner), it will slide with all 4 tires at the same time, which I really appreciate.👍
And sometimes it understeers aswell

 

[profi]

Alright, so we kind of agree on the PC thing it seems.

The thing with PRO mode is not entirely right though, GT 3(?) and 4 had tires called SIMULATION which provided very similar feel to GT5P PRO mode.
Imo Spec II was a big step into the right direction and III another one.
It is near to perfection now. what I don't get is why so many people bitching around and refuse to see the big improvements that where made. Hence I say go play PC SIMSBIMS 🤬 if you dislike what GT is, has been, alway will be 👍 Hush, hush

I wonder if we are somehow related ? You take the words right out of my mouth...
Again, you are absolutely right:tup:

 

[m7ammed]

There are many fellows here that have driven large amount of cars on track, Scaff comes to mind, and I'm sure they'll give their opinion when they've created it. 👍

I'm also waiting for Scaff's opinion on this 👍

 

[panjandrum]

Oh... btw in GT4 was a 1.6 Clio right? Same car as mine . The only way I could reproduce its RL handling and speed ingame was to put on Simulation tires and really push it. Weird how can this be if the physics was that wrong in GT4 ? Can you or someone explain that , please .

Personally, I think GT4 physics were great for the period. We've moved on to new hardware and hopefully GT5 will reflect that we have more power to use and thus can have even more realistic physics.

Very few people realize how easily a car pushes (understeers) or gets loose (oversteers). The band of performance in which a car is right at the edge of one of these characteristics can be very narrow. Sometimes this band is MORE narrow for the best handling cars. It is rare to find a car which is both extremely forgiving and handles extremely well (the modern corvette is an excellent example of a car which is both forgiving and has excellent handling.)

For those of you reading this thread who truly feel that either the post-august or the post-october updates are more realistic than the original physics (which had problems of its own I admit), you should probably do some outside research - documentaries about racing, read some books about racing techniques, etc.

And definitely watch the recent special-edition release of Gran-Prix (with James Garner), including all the extras.

These things will help clarify how difficult a racing sim should be ( hint: really freaking difficult! )

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I wonder if we are somehow related ? You take the words right out of my mouth...
Again, you are absolutely right:tup:

LOL Thank you, maybe we are?
Im glad at least a view people can share my views on that matter 👍

 

[BLACK86]

I know what you're after. No, I've not driven these car's in real life. So, no I don't know how they behave in real life. And most of us will never do. So I have to rely on my logic how I think and believe these car's would behave.. and if the game fulfills these expectations then my immersion is ever greater and I enjoy the game much more. I didn't say at any point that now the car's behave just like in real life. I just think that now they act as a dude like me would think they do in real life. So I feel like I'm driving the car, because I believe so. And that's enough for me. I really can't ask much more. All these things said, I really need to get still some more time to test out more different cars and tyres + tunes, but this is my initial feeling. 👍

What is your ultimate measure of simulation? For me, it's me believing that this is like the real thing. I don't need anyone saying is this real or not. I can make my own conclusions, that much I have driven on track.

There are many fellows here that have driven large amount of cars on track, Scaff comes to mind, and I'm sure they'll give their opinion when they've created it. 👍

my ultimate mesure of simulation is to hear a honest opinion of a pro race driver regarding gt5p physics. you say it believing like this is the real thing, we dont know the real thing tho, we could be way off who knows

so basically as long as the physics go well with your opinion of how cars should handle then you are ok, i wish i had that approach actually i think a lot of us do somewhere inside us, i have some too no doubt but my wanting for realism is higher than my want for what i think is realism. i mean dont get me wrong i believe your thoughts are close to real life. meh tbh we are never going to get realism in gt5p thats the bottom line....so im aiming for close now lol, and since you have been on tracks and i havent, your judgment prevails. now im at peace i can get on with driving.

thanks mate

 

[BLACK86]

I thought it was clear that I meant my logic...

that statement isnt clearly saying you are meaning you're own personal logic. or maybe im missing something, dude no hard feelings right? i dont want to get on you're wrong side

 

[Timppaq]

Driving should not be difficult. Driving fast should be, as it is... and has all the time of gt5p been.. this I'd like to state.

that statement isnt clearly saying you are meaning you're own personal logic. or maybe im missing something, dude no hard feelings right? i dont want to get on you're wrong side

I do mean my own personal logic.. it's the only one I got and the only one that I have to live with.. ...NO, NO... No hard feelings at all. The point of me posting in this thread was to state my own opinion. Not the utimate truth... Feel free to make your own mind... 👍

I just meant that driving fast isn't easy.. it's never. Just feels more real to me now.

 

[Wolfe]

Ok I see, but it was basically not entirely wrong?
You mean the Clio with neutral handling, do you. Because it really is . If I ever slides( round a corner), it will slide with all 4 tires at the same time, which I really appreciate.👍
And sometimes it understeers aswell

You could say that because understeer wasn't so unrealistic, the game wasn't entirely wrong, but the imbalance between understeer and oversteer neutered what should have been frighteningly powerful RWD cars (eg. Shelby Cobra), turned drifting into a tedious chore, punished proper driving (hypersensitive countersteer), and rewarded poor driving (most mistakes resulted in predictable understeer). So while the game was more or less correct in one aspect, the overall experience was still painfully dreadful, IMO.

From what I've played, GT5 is a huge improvement and then some, but unless I can get another shot on my acquaintance's PS3, I won't get to try this new update. I do like what I hear in red7's first post on the first page, but I'm confused by everyone else's varying reports.

 

[profi]

OK, did a brief test...

...as I just finished the update and drove f430 just before updating and immediately after the update (S2's only). And I think that the car is now more logical, resposive to drive. It feels more real to me now.. yes, there is maybe more understeer, but it feels right and if you want, it's easy to make the car (f430) oversteery. It feels more like I would imagine it to be IRL. Before this update there was some strange 'thing' that made driving feel less real for me. I really don't know how to describe it, but now it feels more right. Good work PD!! 👍

The thing that I try to describe here is that I've been away for a while now from gt5p and lost a bit of the 'feel' for it. So I was really struggling with the f430 and wondered how the hell did I do that time for the qualifier. I managed after a few laps 2'12.6xx.. lol.. and it was really hard and inconsistent. It just felt wrong.. like my brains didn't understand the way I should have driven the car. I really would have needed quite many laps to get even near to my qualy time.

Then after the update. Magic happened.. ..I was laughing from the first turn of the wheel. I LOVE IT! It's not the point, but I was immediately a sec faster.. and it's due to the logical way the car handles now. It just feels better.. LOVE the responsiveness on the steering.. my brains know now what to do.. lol.. I know this sounds very funny but for me the fun factor is back again. (it could also be that they've changed some parameter in f430, who knows)

Now the physics feel like the first edition, but without the driving on ice feeling. It has been cured but using a better method than on the Aug1st update.

Thanks PD again.. I'm liking this! Now just give us the Suzy600pp - S2's / S1's back!!

👍
An important thing really IS the "more logical" behaviour and also the fun-factor !

What is it good for to call something the PROFESSIONAL PROFI SUPERLICENSE MODE which only a few players can handle because of practising exactly that mode several hours every day and after it they manage to do a fast "laptime" by giving inputs to their controls which are miraculous ?

Good work PD:tup:

 

[BLACK86]

Driving should not be difficult. Driving fast should be, as it is... and has all the time of gt5p been.. this I'd like to state.

i dont know if we are still on the more/less realistic thing, but just becuase its hard to drive fast on gt5p does not mean realistic. and tbh its not that difficult to drive fast now on gt5p, its definitely got easier since the arrival of gt5p

mind you i suppose its always going to be difficult driving on the edge.

 

[profi]

I know what you're after. No, I've not driven these car's in real life. So, no I don't know how they behave in real life. And most of us will never do. So I have to rely on my logic how I think and believe these car's would behave.. and if the game fulfills these expectations then my immersion is ever greater and I enjoy the game much more. I didn't say at any point that now the car's behave just like in real life. I just think that now they act as a dude like me would think they do in real life. So I feel like I'm driving the car, because I believe so. And that's enough for me. I really can't ask much more. All these things said, I really need to get still some more time to test out more different cars and tyres + tunes, but this is my initial feeling. 👍

What is your ultimate measure of simulation? For me, it's me believing that this is like the real thing. I don't need anyone saying is this real or not. I can make my own conclusions, that much I have driven on track.

There are many fellows here that have driven large amount of cars on track, Scaff comes to mind, and I'm sure they'll give their opinion when they've created it. 👍

edit:



I thought it was clear that I meant my logic...

OMG timppaq you are sooo right !
I feel happy to find people in here whos thoughts are so similar to mine.

And its also good I dont have to argument myself ... you do the work.. :-)
(And youre doing so damn good !)

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

my ultimate mesure of simulation is to hear a honest opinion of a pro race driver regarding gt5p physics. you say it believing like this is the real thing, we dont know the real thing tho, we could be way off who knows

so basically as long as the physics go well with your opinion of how cars should handle then you are ok, i wish i had that approach actually i think a lot of us do somewhere inside us, i have some too no doubt but my wanting for realism is higher than my want for what i think is realism. i mean dont get me wrong i believe your thoughts are close to real life. meh tbh we are never going to get realism in gt5p thats the bottom line....so im aiming for close now lol, and since you have been on tracks and i havent, your judgment prevails. now im at peace i can get on with driving.

thanks mate

A real race driver would most probably say its so-so , somewhat good, but not perfect. So what gives ?

Personally, I think GT4 physics were great for the period. We've moved on to new hardware and hopefully GT5 will reflect that we have more power to use and thus can have even more realistic physics.

Very few people realize how easily a car pushes (understeers) or gets loose (oversteers). The band of performance in which a car is right at the edge of one of these characteristics can be very narrow. Sometimes this band is MORE narrow for the best handling cars. It is rare to find a car which is both extremely forgiving and handles extremely well (the modern corvette is an excellent example of a car which is both forgiving and has excellent handling.)

For those of you reading this thread who truly feel that either the post-august or the post-october updates are more realistic than the original physics (which had problems of its own I admit), you should probably do some outside research - documentaries about racing, read some books about racing techniques, etc.

And definitely watch the recent special-edition release of Gran-Prix (with James Garner), including all the extras.

These things will help clarify how difficult a racing sim should be ( hint: really freaking difficult! )

Ok yeah, but we already moved on... stunning graphics , precise handling ( ok only since today ).
I mean I somehow understand you beeing dissapointed about it seems to be easier now( which it is... the driving, not the racing!)... but its so FUN now actually

I'm also waiting for Scaff's opinion on this 👍

It will be interessting, but they improved so many things, its unbelievable- even the drafting now FEELS like real life, boosting your car and at the same time upsetting it, etc...
I was driving the california for a few hours now and I tried, but I could not stop smiling
I really respect Scaff´s opinion, but wether it´s good or bad ( it won´t ) it will probably not change my opinion about this update ... it just rocks ! 👍

And please don´t tell me about how the drafting is not right, I ve been drafting now for so long on our so called Autobahnen(which basically are race tracks), that I do not need to be a race driver judging, thanks...

 

[Timppaq]

i dont know if we are still on the more/less realistic thing, but just becuase its hard to drive fast on gt5p does not mean realistic. and tbh its not that difficult to drive fast now on gt5p, its definitely got easier since the arrival of gt5p

mind you i suppose its always going to be difficult driving on the edge.

As I said.. It's enough real to me. Realistic? I hope so.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

You could say that because understeer wasn't so unrealistic, the game wasn't entirely wrong, but the imbalance between understeer and oversteer neutered what should have been frighteningly powerful RWD cars (eg. Shelby Cobra), turned drifting into a tedious chore, punished proper driving (hypersensitive countersteer), and rewarded poor driving (most mistakes resulted in predictable understeer). So while the game was more or less correct in one aspect, the overall experience was still painfully dreadful, IMO.

From what I've played, GT5 is a huge improvement and then some, but unless I can get another shot on my acquaintance's PS3, I won't get to try this new update. I do like what I hear in red7's first post on the first page, but I'm confused by everyone else's varying reports.

Yes, that´s true about the oversteering in GT4, although I thought high powered rwds with sim tires could be real beasts
But you are right something with the oversteering felt wrong, didnt bother me too much though I have to admit.

As for the update, besides other things like improved online collisions, I can safely say I think they only changed the sensitivity of the controll inputs, which i adapted in a few seconds and really think its the best thing ever... and improved the sounds so that it is much more responsive, you can hear what happens next before you feel (see) it .

Really sorry for everyone not sharing this experience...

So it is NOT like before SpecII or Aug 1 .. whoever said that
Its like it was yesterday, just better, more real and immersive 👍

 

[HaylRayzor]

RBE is definately still in effect. It seems to effect power but not grip, which means that the 111R doesn't get hurt as much as the Ferrari C. Because there was a car half a lap behind I was slowed by 6-7 seconds, but the 111R behind me hardly seemed slowed at all. He caught me from 6 seconds back and just drove by me (wel, punted me off the chicane, but anyway...)

 

[panjandrum]

I mean I somehow understand you beeing dissapointed about it seems to be easier now( which it is... the driving, not the racing!)... but its so FUN now actually[/SIZE]

Ah, but you see, that is exactly my point! It is more fun for you because it is easier. It is less fun for many of us for that exact same reason. We want it to be more realistic than it currently is. It is simply too easy, even in pro mode. It isn't realistic it doesn't feel as much like a sim anymore. Hence the need for a system to control the difficulty, so that YOU AND I CAN BOTH BE HAPPY.

It doesn't have to be a "standard" and "pro" thing - they could simply make the computer-assists much more aggressive. Maybe people would be happier that way.

But the fact that you simply can't see, or don't seem to care, that many of the "purest" drivers here find these updates lacking is disturbing. I don't understand why anyone would argue for a solution which reduces the enjoyment for a significant group of people when there are such simple ways to remedy the situation.