Tiff Needel comes to mind, but he'd be promoting the game if it was positive and would need a contract, then people will say its just marketing talk. He would probably get fed up after a minute and start drifting anyway
My own humble opinion on a couple of hours play is the tyre grip is more realistic around the limit. The cars feel looser and I can get the back end out easier and use the throttle, before it was nullified with little variation in the previous update. My main grumble was the fun driving the Z06 512 and Art Morrison etc was removed or squashed last time, where as some said it's spot on and more real. Driving a RWD on N and S tyres felt like being chaperoned. Now its more reminiscent to what I've experienced. The fun is back in my opinion.
I would like the old physics/tyres with tweaks and much more emphasis on weight shifting for all car types in cornering and under braking with realistic lap times to real life. A better wheel with varied FFB stopping short of a cockpit simulator to convey this is needed I think. Ferrari Challenge with the G25 is quite good in this aspect.
and I am pretty sure that's how it is in real life, or am I missing something??
same if you get punted 
has become the best simulator of physics bahaviour of the car in this moment, and that PC has lost it's battle in terms in overall physics department. Of course, it is all IMHO.
After spending some serious time with the update, here are my conclusions.
The physics is more realistic than ever in virtual racing. You actually have more control of the car because the overall "feel" for the tyres is finally here.
I've been driving TVR Tuscan - my favorite FR beast - and I finally got the feeling I always wanted (S1 and N3 respectfully).
There is no more "ice driving", you actully have a full control when the tyres are going to loose grip and you can finally do a "last moment switch" of the lateral movement. Also, the feeling of braking is now spot-on-perfect, especially with ABS off.
Now the pedals are having full-analogue saturation for both throttle/brakes and there is a great difference when you finally master the philisophy behind saturation-push for brakes. It is almost lifelike - when you take into concern that you have no feedback on brakes of course.
All stated is with G25 wheel.
Also, I had a chance to run both GTR2, rFactor and iRacing in Saturday evening for comparation, and despite all other details those respectful games have - that GT lacks, no dispute there - GT5: Prologue makes those games feel unreal in terms of feel of the car/tyres to pavement.
Above statement concludes that GT5
Astonishing job from Polyphony, now I'm waiting for the first true race-car for Prologue to do final comparasion.
wins.
Hey man, I agree with evetything you've said, but my concusions were made about one - but still very important characteristic - feel of tyres/car on the pavement.
Everything else is still on the PC side, but in this department GT5
And thank you once more for the hospitality, we have to do it again ASAP
I wasn't talking about whether or not my car would drift, I was saying that yes a car will snap around on you if you counter-steer with too much throttle. It happened to me in a FWD car, which is far less prone to come around on you, and that was all I was getting at. So thank you for putting words in my mouth and twisting my comment to Hades and back.
). I've dropped the overall steering lock, but it doesn't really have any affect as I'm talking the first whisper of when you put in some turn. The only thing I can think of doing now is trying to soften the setup to make the turn in a bit sloppy (which will no doubt affect my times). Anyone have any ideas (apart from buying a wheel)? 
First post on this subject as I've been without a controller for a week - what the hell have they done to the steering input on the sticks? In a R35, I can't keep the car in a straight line any more, the tiniest input on the steering sees the car twitching left/right. I tried playing on Suzuka 750pp tonight, and ended up rubbing door panels all over the place trying to overtake people where the slightest (and I mean slight, I'm an artist so I can do gentle) input moves the 'wheel' 5 degrees (maybe a slight exaggeration
Cheers, one very miffed Dom
PS - The real gutter is I love the new physics
Change it back PD...I've never gotten a very good "feel" for the car through GTR2 or rFactor. It's well-known that the tire model is compromised, and doesn't take very well to oversteer. I once found a page that explored the programming and explained that it was because the tire simulation basically "fell apart" at large slip angles; unfortunately, I can't seem to find it now. Another factor is the predefined force feedback effects, which are less than ideal and no doubt influenced your experience with the G25. Another still is the lack of visual feedback, which could be attributed to the stiff suspensions of the racecars, but I've just never escaped that all-too-familiar "floating" feeling in any ISI game -- it's not that it feels like I'm "driving on ice," to borrow the popular complaint, but that the car kinda hovers around like a sliding brick. Finally, in the process of searching I found forum threads that discussed other issues, including a somewhat popular rFactor Porsche mod where the 911s had a front weight distribution of 60%.Also, I had a chance to run both GTR2, rFactor and iRacing in Saturday evening for comparation (thanx Dzidza), and despite all other details those respectful games have - that GT lacks, no dispute there - GT5: Prologue makes those games feel unreal in terms of feel of the car/tyres to pavement.
Above statement concludes that GT5
As always, user-created content brings its own share of troubles, which is another reason the ISI games, particularly rFactor, are hard to trust. and left with the impression that it was better than GTR2 or rFactor, as you say. As someone who enjoys spending virtual track time drifting RWD roadcars around, I value that tire "feel" and beyond-the-limit behavior just as you do, and beyond the fact that they generally simulate racecars with unforgiving race-spec tires, the ISI games just can't offer what we're looking for, at least not without deep modifications. has a better "feel." In any case, that list of PC sims curiously happens to be lacking the only PC sim I've played that has mastered exactly what you're looking for -- the feel of the car/tires to pavement -- and that is Live for Speed. If you get another chance to play with Dzidza, I highly recommend trying the demo, if neither of you have played it.Forgive me, that last comment of mine was intended as "if this was your point, please don't start." I suppose the "if" wasn't clear enough the way I worded it.
even with all gears shortened as far as they can go and the final at minimum also .. it's so slow it is depressing
Very well said, my sentiments exactly! I have a hard time keepng the car going straight. A very slight touch and the car seems to jump a lane or two. This effect is obviously much exaggerated when at high speeds, i really don't like the effect
đź‘Ť 
:tup:
I've never gotten a very good "feel" for the car through GTR2 or rFactor. It's well-known that the tire model is compromised, and doesn't take very well to oversteer. I once found a page that explored the programming and explained that it was because the tire simulation basically "fell apart" at large slip angles; unfortunately, I can't seem to find it now. Another factor is the predefined force feedback effects, which are less than ideal and no doubt influenced your experience with the G25. Another still is the lack of visual feedback, which could be attributed to the stiff suspensions of the racecars, but I've just never escaped that all-too-familiar "floating" feeling in any ISI game -- it's not that it feels like I'm "driving on ice," to borrow the popular complaint, but that the car kinda hovers around like a sliding brick. Finally, in the process of searching I found forum threads that discussed other issues, including a somewhat popular rFactor Porsche mod where the 911s had a front weight distribution of 60%.
That said, assuming what I've been reading in this thread is correct, it wouldn't surprise me if I had an opportunity to play the latest update of GT5
As for the last game you played, iRacing, I haven't tried it, but from all I've heard of that project it's extremely surprising to now hear that GT5
Forgive me, that last comment of mine was intended as "if this was your point, please don't start." I suppose the "if" wasn't clear enough the way I worded it.
However, I must confess I'm still not sure of the relevance of your point. Let's recap -- Fujiwara-kun and s15specr said the new update made drifting difficult, pointing out that the car snaps around when you countersteer under full throttle. BRracing_ProtoX then replied that that's how it is in real life. I responded to BRracing_ProtoX, stating that in real life, a car isn't that likely to snap around under countersteer. You responded to me with an experience you had in a FWD car.
I'll grant you that we never brought up a drivetrain layout, but the topic was drifting -- which commonly involves a RWD car -- and I was talking about cars that drift under throttle -- something FWD cars are certainly not known for. Can you see why your comment was out of place?
Very well said, my sentiments exactly! I have a hard time keepng the car going straight. A very slight touch and the car seems to jump a lane or two. This effect is obviously much exaggerated when at high speeds, i really don't like the effect
That's pretty much what I like the most, because it's realistic ,especially combined with the splipstream effects !
So please PD keep it real, one of your best moves so far,actually doesn't feel like just another driving game no more!
Don't listen to the bots...
Spot on! đź‘Ť
I've never gotten a very good "feel" for the car through GTR2 or rFactor. It's well-known that the tire model is compromised, and doesn't take very well to oversteer. I once found a page that explored the programming and explained that it was because the tire simulation basically "fell apart" at large slip angles; unfortunately, I can't seem to find it now. Another factor is the predefined force feedback effects, which are less than ideal and no doubt influenced your experience with the G25. Another still is the lack of visual feedback, which could be attributed to the stiff suspensions of the racecars, but I've just never escaped that all-too-familiar "floating" feeling in any ISI game -- it's not that it feels like I'm "driving on ice," to borrow the popular complaint, but that the car kinda hovers around like a sliding brick. Finally, in the process of searching I found forum threads that discussed other issues, including a somewhat popular rFactor Porsche mod where the 911s had a front weight distribution of 60%.
That said, assuming what I've been reading in this thread is correct, it wouldn't surprise me if I had an opportunity to play the latest update of GT5
As for the last game you played, iRacing, I haven't tried it, but from all I've heard of that project it's extremely surprising to now hear that GT5
Forgive me, that last comment of mine was intended as "if this was your point, please don't start." I suppose the "if" wasn't clear enough the way I worded it.
However, I must confess I'm still not sure of the relevance of your point. Let's recap -- Fujiwara-kun and s15specr said the new update made drifting difficult, pointing out that the car snaps around when you countersteer under full throttle. BRracing_ProtoX then replied that that's how it is in real life. I responded to BRracing_ProtoX, stating that in real life, a car isn't that likely to snap around under countersteer. You responded to me with an experience you had in a FWD car.
I'll grant you that we never brought up a drivetrain layout, but the topic was drifting -- which commonly involves a RWD car -- and I was talking about cars that drift under throttle -- something FWD cars are certainly not known for. Can you see why your comment was out of place?
