NFL General Discussion

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JohnBM01
NFL cracking down on vicious hits stemming from lots of hard hits from Sunday. Hefty fines being doled out to certain players. What are your thoughts on this whole deal?
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In sort, it is a rule that you shouldn't intentionally hit helmet-to-helmet. It's dangerous, and in the name of sport, it isn't a real tackle (something that is supposed to be performed with your arms, torso, and hands). The problem is, it looks "cool" and ferocious, so the league is being a tad arbitrary about it with those fines, while pocketing money film and photos of these hits in return.

Granted, like motor racing...football is DANGEROUS. But totally unnecessary and avoidable risks should be eliminated, or at least, penalized. There is always going to be incidental helmet-to-helmet contact, and there's nothing you can really do about it. Spiking/spearing head first is a bad idea: Headbutting and leaping up to strike an opponent head-first is totally not cool and is a cheap shot in my books.

Look what happens to you "tackle" helmet-to-helmet: Kevin Everett's lucky to be alive. This wasn't that long ago, either.



James Harrison is a talented cry-baby, too.
 
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^^ I remember that, too. Scary moment. Last I heard he was able to walk again, is there anything else saying how mobile he is?
 
^James Harrison is an embarrassment (IMHO), who's only claim to fame is that he is playing on the Steelers. Without Palomalu that defense suffered. With Pal in the backfield Harrison is free to roam more and not confined / responsible for a certain area on field. He has stated before, and again on Sunday, that he 'plays to hurt people'. And he wonders why he got a $75k fine. (He had 2 spearing helmet hits in that Cleveland game and he's a repeat offender). Earlier in the year when they were playing Denver he grabbed a fumble and was running it back, when Kyle Horton (Denver QB) was trying to get him out of bounds and Harrison lowered his head and speared Horton in the back. He even stated after the game that the reason he did that was because Horton was talking trash during the previous drive. Hmmm....His days are numbered in the NFL, mark it down. By injury or ejection, he won't be in this league much longer if he continues to play this way, and I'm not sure he's talented enough to play any other way. (I'm just not a fan of his or anyone who plays that way.)

The main problem with the league right now is that nobody knows how to tackle. They are always looking for the big hit to dislodge the ball or the players head. The NFL is culpible in this as well, as they have made a name for themselves with this type of play. Now they have to reign it back in, which will be tough.

Better helmets won't have an effect on the concussions. It will always be a by-product of the speed of the game. Lowering the strike zone won't change it either. If racing has taught us anything about collisions, it's that when impacts occur, G-forces are very hard to subside. Even with a Hans device a driver will get a concussion because his brain cannot decelarate quick enough without slamming into the inside of the skull. Same goes for football, really no matter where a player gets hit (head or chest) the skull continues movement until the neck stops it (and then the brain hits the skull).

At this rate players will soon have a similar restaint to the Hans device for their helmet. Unless the selling point of the league becomes skill and not impacts.
 
I agree with FishForRent's comments, especially on the "nobody knows how to tackle" part.

I've watched some current and past games and I am always stunned at the lack of skill and fitnesse they have when they "tackle" someone in a safe and effective manner. I do like to watch some Rugby games and their tackling, in terms of skill, far surpasses the NFL standard tackles.

I just cannot understand why NFL players go high (Shoulders, heads), rather than low toward the waist area. If you go high to the shoulder area and grapple with the player, you ain't gonna bring them down, kill the play or do anything as quickly as if the player went toward the waist area (while the feets are still on the ground) and bring him down by either trapping the legs or just adding dead weight to the opposing player.

Additionally, if you get the skill of the tackle done properly, you'll reduce injuries and you can easily take someone twice your size down.

I think that improvements in safety equipments just means that players will hit harder, faster and just disregard skilled tackles for speed and power in the hope that they can knock the ball off or basically wind some unfortunate player who got steamrolled.

I have always thought that while NFL is a show, that is fast and furious when the game gets going, it has lacked skill in the tackle area. There are too many touchdowns done that would have not been done if the opposing players knew how to block and tackle around the waist rather than on the shoulders and have a bitchslap contest...well, that what it looks like sometimes. :)

Is it reasonable, what I have just said, or is it totally wrong?
 
^^ Nope, makes perfect sense. It's all about personal ego. Like :Oh man, I just knocked that guy out! Oh hell yeah!" But in reality there are so many missed tackles because, like you said, players go high instead of low. If you wrap someone up at the waist it's easier wrench them down than it is to plow right into them without a wrap-up and hope they get knocked back.
 
Another funny thing about NFL that used to reduce me to tears sometimes, was when there was a player running for the goal line and needs to evade about three opposing players, all the players go high. I'm watching it (before they all go high) and I'm thinking to myself...

You're gonna have the last or the second-last player (I'm guessing) attempting to go for the waist...No heroics, just go for the waist....Just the waist to drag and kill the play.....WHAT?! WHY YOU JUMP FOR THE HEAD/SHOULDER?! WHY?!!!!

And then I have to lie down and breathe.

Additionally, don't the players all get big-ass bruises from those massive impacts they take every single game?
 
Oh yes they do get bruises. :lol:

Most players sit in an ice bath for like 2 hours after games and practices.
 
No Texans this weekend or next Sunday, so I'll be checking out some of the other games on right now. The big surprise I've seen when I woke up was Cleveland leading New Orleans 20-3 at New Orleans. Yikes! It's about 11:49 left in the game with CLE leading 20-10.

Hope your teams are doing well today!
 
That was disgraceful. The league is totally robbing teams that aren't "supposed to win." Look at Buffalo, SD, and Miami. Miami got robbed 2 weeks in a row now.

But the least we could do was drive down the field for a FG. Dan Carpenter can make it from 53 yards out ffs. I think the best thing that could happen now is that Norv Turner gets fired and returns to Miami as our new OC.
 
Some outstanding early games. The RedZone Channel was smokin'. New Orleans, really?!. Buffalo so close, Eagles get beat, Chicago is an embarrassment on offense, Really enjoyed the Tampa game, Singletears' 49ers lose to an o-for team at the end. The Steeler game was a robbery; Miami sure appeared to control them (from what I saw, flipping channels)

Late games are already boring.....(mostly); need to see if the Chargers can compete for a whole game. Then tonight - Fav-re in Lambo.......hope the Vikes lose.

Then tomorrow night my 'boys get to lose again at home......dammit. :grumpy:
 
Actually, Chris Clemons just did a miracle of a play and the refs screwed it up. The Steelers had some amazing passes but both teams' run games were shut down. That's why I'm so mad at Dan Henning. If we couldn't drive it down the field for the 2 minute drill, how were we going to keep the ball and drive down the field if the refs actually managed to get that fumble recovery call right.
 
Submerged
Is it reasonable, what I have just said, or is it totally wrong?
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You are being reasonable, but the reason is obvious, and you hinted at it.

You make more money if your stats look awesome and you get on highlight reels. A high tackle that works looks much harder and makes the highlight reels, and you can argue for more money if you regularly force game-winning/changing turnovers.

What should be done, as a team, is what I saw in a recent game (don't remember who) where the first tackle was at the waist, and as the carrier was coming down a second guy hit him high and aimed for the ball with his forearm to create a fumble. If the strip hadn't worked the guy was still coming down.
 
I can't believe the Chargers. You get a false start penalty at home trying to kick the game tying field goal. I was hoping they would go for it. They already have a losing record why not. The one time I wanted those bums to win they couldn't win. Even though I hate the Fins that was a terrible call. I thought that teams were supposed to play through the whistle.
 
Who dat say dey gonna beat dem Saints? Cleveland probably did... and did it convincingly. Shame.


Giants at Cowboys TONIGHT!

Will the New York Giants leave Big D with a win, or can the one-win 'Boys hold serve at home?
 
It sure seemed to me like there were three different Miami players on top of that ball before anyone on the Steelers even knew it had been dropped.

That fumble called at the end of the Buffalo game was a joke as well. If the referees never blow the whistle, can I just run up and steal the ball when the team goes to hike it for the next play, and call that a fumble?

I didn't watch that much of the Minnesota game, but it looks like there were a lot of bad calls in that one too (though they looked to be all around).
 
Today was the 46th (fix if I'm wrong) anniversary of Minnesota Viking Jim Marshall running a fumble back for a touchdown... in the OTHER end zone! It ended up being a safety for the 49ers. I couldn't help but laugh. However, I'd be pretty upset if I was a Vikings fan and this guy runs the ball back to the wrong end zone.
 
Well, Romo's got a broken collarbone. If my cowboys weren't done before (they were done anyway :dunce:).......it's all over now. Giants score 17 points in 4 1/2 minutes. 24-20 giants, first half. Can't watch anymore. Started watching the Viper Cup replay on Vs channel. Man. Wonder if Romo will even play again the rest of the year. For sure he'll be out for several games. This season blows for Dallas. :ouch::grumpy::yuck:
 
This game is horrible. The cowboys didn't show up for this game. How do you not get up for one of your hated rivals? If I was a fan of this team I would be digusted. All that talent and they are going to be 1-5.
 
^truely disgusted, I am. No pressure on the QB, no secondary coverage. 'Boys got their butts COMPLETELY kicked. Man, this has been embarrassing. 👎

At least we beat the Yanks.....[/sarcasm]
 
I watched Favre lose the GB - Vikes game from the sideline. It was glorious. I guess I still like the guy on account of I grew up with him as my hero, but its good to see him go down when he comes back to the sacred ground. Nice game Rodgers, thanks for the picks, Old man. ;)
 
FoolKiller
You are being reasonable, but the reason is obvious, and you hinted at it.

You make more money if your stats look awesome and you get on highlight reels. A high tackle that works looks much harder and makes the highlight reels, and you can argue for more money if you regularly force game-winning/changing turnovers.

What should be done, as a team, is what I saw in a recent game (don't remember who) where the first tackle was at the waist, and as the carrier was coming down a second guy hit him high and aimed for the ball with his forearm to create a fumble. If the strip hadn't worked the guy was still coming down.
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Thank you for taking the time to explain it.

Although with regards to the money side of things, one could say that if you tackled properly in the first place you would be worth a lot more than someone who just runs into another player and chest them out of the arena (or so it seems in some games).

With regards to the last paragraph of your comment, most rugby players do that if they have two or more players on an opposing player. Technically you can not tackle higher than chest/shoulder area but you can force a fumble if done correctly.

Ah well, I guess we will just have to wait and see what the governing body will do on that topic.
 
Submerged
Although with regards to the money side of things, one could say that if you tackled properly in the first place you would be worth a lot more than someone who just runs into another player and chest them out of the arena (or so it seems in some games).
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If they are pulling in a near record number of fumbles they can still negotiate their contract as the go-to guy for getting turnovers when needed. With sports players, though, money is not just a team contract issue. They negotiate a lot of their own endorsement deals and making a name for themselves on highlight reels will get them those more than just knocking a guy down properly. Being a big hit guy that looks impressive puts their face in the media and thus makes them a great endorsement candidate.

Showboating does the same thing. Just look at Chad Ochocinco for the Bengals. He is a good receiver, but he gets far more attention than he deserves because he draws it in with his antics and comments. Getting an unsportsmanlike conduct call (15 yards after the kick) every other game does not make him a great asset, but it gets his face and name out there. He does all kinds of deals in the Cincy area and his jersey is probably the most popular one from the team. All that adds on top of his team contract, and it must be enough extra to make him ignore the fines from the NFL. Should the coach be looking to bench him? It is hard to say. He is good for morale, works up the crowds, is still an above average wide receiver, and brings a mediocre team money, but he purposely gets unnecessary penalties.

Ah well, I guess we will just have to wait and see what the governing body will do on that topic.
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Bad tackling won't get ruled out. That is a coach's problem. Unsafe hits are, but just going high isn't generally enough to warrant rule changes.
 
If you visit the Dallas Cowboys' Facebook fan page, there are LOTS of unhappy fans. Crazy stuff. Sad thing is... I still have to live with (as a Texans fan) that one Cowboys win being against my boys. Texans don't play until this coming Monday Night. It would be GREAT to sweep the Colts, but I don't think it's going to happen. I still think back to that kick (among others) Kris Brown shanked that could have forced Overtime last year.

My Texans are NOT winning the AFC South, but a win at the Colts can really send a message. I still see the Texans as an AFC Wild Card contender. Maybe we get lucky and win the AFC South, but I think we are more the outside-looking-in team. All we can do is win. We still have some tough games left even after the at Colts game. We have to go to Philadelphia and host the Ravens in our other Monday Night contest.

Plenty of time to get ready for the new weekend. NFL on Halloween! Can you believe it? Some teams are surely going to be tricked and treated for doggone sure!
 
I'll make a bold statement and say that one again the Seahawks will win the NFC west. After beating rival Cards (out biggest threat) I think as long as they continue to have QB trouble, and we keep holding comebacks off, we are in good shape. To me at least, our team seems the opposite of last year. Last year our defense would stop them in the beginning, and then just crumble. Now it seems that if they get a little behind, they pick it up and get off the field.
 
Well, many people call the NFC West as the worst conference in all of the NFL. So if that's true, ANYBODY can win the NFC West. Even the St. Louis Rams made a claim for winning the NFC West. We'll see who wins the NFC West come playoff time...
 
JohnBM01
Well, many people call the NFC West as the worst conference in all of the NFL. So if that's true, ANYBODY can win the NFC West. Even the St. Louis Rams made a claim for winning the NFC West. We'll see who wins the NFC West come playoff time...
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Actually, you may remember analysts calling for the 49'ers to win it this year. (
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