NFS Shift 2 - Things GT5 could/should implement.
- Thread starter freelance
- 379 comments
- 32,575 views
- 3,799
- Ireland
- powellx234
magik300
+1
- 351
- GeneralJesh
At least you said on PS3
Wow so much hate in this thread...
On topic:
- Absolutely nothing at all at the moment (game isn't even out dudes !)
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Off topic?:
Semi-Sim racing for NFS franchize was only apparent in 1st NFS and Porshe2000.
All other NFS's are arcade games in therm of physic. Ofcourze we must include what year it is. Because by today standards Porshe or 1st NFS isn't semi-sim.
Shift 1 wasn't even semi-sim and by looks of shift 2 same probably will happen with 2.
So in therms of sim league it should be in GRID departament.
Today top in console sim physic is model of GT5 hance down.
Turn 10 with Forza 3 tried to pull some amazing stuff in therm of phhysic but they shoot themselfs in foot by adding permament active steering. So it is semi-sim. Shame, because they had potential in their hands and ruined it...
In therms of graphic it is no brainer GT5 is the best lookig racing game ever and probably first game ever that sometimes make you feel "this look just real" Not even Crysis with super mods doubt me what i see. (Parialy it is thanks to closed space gameplay).
It have flaws but all racing game today have flaws in therms of graphic. But all of them look like a game where GT5 can look like real life.
On topic:
- Absolutely nothing at all at the moment (game isn't even out dudes !)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Off topic?:
Semi-Sim racing for NFS franchize was only apparent in 1st NFS and Porshe2000.
All other NFS's are arcade games in therm of physic. Ofcourze we must include what year it is. Because by today standards Porshe or 1st NFS isn't semi-sim.
Shift 1 wasn't even semi-sim and by looks of shift 2 same probably will happen with 2.
So in therms of sim league it should be in GRID departament.
Today top in console sim physic is model of GT5 hance down.
Turn 10 with Forza 3 tried to pull some amazing stuff in therm of phhysic but they shoot themselfs in foot by adding permament active steering. So it is semi-sim. Shame, because they had potential in their hands and ruined it...
In therms of graphic it is no brainer GT5 is the best lookig racing game ever and probably first game ever that sometimes make you feel "this look just real" Not even Crysis with super mods doubt me what i see. (Parialy it is thanks to closed space gameplay).
It have flaws but all racing game today have flaws in therms of graphic. But all of them look like a game where GT5 can look like real life.
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- 3,232
- Wales
I don't think GT5 is the best looking racing game ever. The premium models are some of the best ever but there are PC games with better/as good car models (FVA 2010). Graphics wise both Dirt 2 and F1 2010 on the PC look much better in every area other than car models.
Physics wise GT5 is the best on a console, i think its the best racing game on a console too. Shift 2 will likely have better graphics (on the pc) and sounds, but not better car models, the physics as we already know are not that great, certaintly not simulation. Shift 2 looks like a competitor for codemasters GRID 2 in the semi-sim market.
Racing experience wise, I had forgot how good Rfactor was. Loaded up the Skyline R34 GTR mod, set the AI to 115% strength and 40% aggressive and then jumped into a short 6lap race at Spa.
Was amazing, had a blast off at the lights starting in last, I did a slight dive bomb down the inside and took 3 cars at the first corner, but going around a car infront spun and i went into him and also spun (damage turned off), i flicked the car around and in last place i fought my way up the field having to fight for position, one by one and work my way up lap by lap until i took the lead.
The cars were fast but not too fast, but still a lot faster than GT5 AI, and if I wanted them to be faster for a real challenge I just turn up the AI difficulty, had a race against the AI that I could never have with GT5, with much better FFB and better sounds.
I love GT5, but sometimes you go back and you find you already had something amazing.
Shift 2 aims to give this experience, but without the hardcore/realistic aimed physics.
Physics wise GT5 is the best on a console, i think its the best racing game on a console too. Shift 2 will likely have better graphics (on the pc) and sounds, but not better car models, the physics as we already know are not that great, certaintly not simulation. Shift 2 looks like a competitor for codemasters GRID 2 in the semi-sim market.
Racing experience wise, I had forgot how good Rfactor was. Loaded up the Skyline R34 GTR mod, set the AI to 115% strength and 40% aggressive and then jumped into a short 6lap race at Spa.
Was amazing, had a blast off at the lights starting in last, I did a slight dive bomb down the inside and took 3 cars at the first corner, but going around a car infront spun and i went into him and also spun (damage turned off), i flicked the car around and in last place i fought my way up the field having to fight for position, one by one and work my way up lap by lap until i took the lead.
The cars were fast but not too fast, but still a lot faster than GT5 AI, and if I wanted them to be faster for a real challenge I just turn up the AI difficulty, had a race against the AI that I could never have with GT5, with much better FFB and better sounds.
I love GT5, but sometimes you go back and you find you already had something amazing.
Shift 2 aims to give this experience, but without the hardcore/realistic aimed physics.
- 3,799
- Ireland
- powellx234
I have rfactor but with my dfgt it doesnt turn consistantly. It turns alot when the wheel is near straight and as i turn out it slows down.
I cannot find what is wrong. I set the mode to wheel and assaigned all the buttons and axis's and doesnt work properly. Now its lying in dust.
I cannot find what is wrong. I set the mode to wheel and assaigned all the buttons and axis's and doesnt work properly. Now its lying in dust.
I have rfactor but with my dfgt it doesnt turn consistantly. It turns alot when the wheel is near straight and as i turn out it slows down.
I cannot find what is wrong. I set the mode to wheel and assaigned all the buttons and axis's and doesnt work properly. Now its lying in dust.
rFactor is a bitch if it comes to plugin your wheel.
My G25 was not working right with rFactor when i used default G25 setup in rFactor. I must cofigure it by trial of errors.
But after i got it right it was a bliss. Try search patches or mods for your wheel.
Damn every time i mention forza3 i got this weird feeling that Turn 10 are bunch of madmen. They got some good physic and they totaly srewed it up by adding permament aid... Damn them..
- 183
- autofusion / GTP_sonicfusion
- XBOX SUCKS!
Any glitches in Shift 2? The game looks really interesting! However it is too bad that the game can demand greater system requirements if it's available for Windows. Not everyone is running an Intel Core i7, not even me.
- 27
- timcal1968
Well I love GT5 and will continue playing it for many years to come. I've also ordered Shift 2 because it looks interesting and will be something different to play. Will it be more sim like than Shift 1, will it be fun to play? I'm not going to judge the book by the cover, and I''ll reserve judgement until I've actually spent a few days playing it.
- 7
- leewiiiz_77
FIA GT1 cars would be good in GT5
- 974
- GOTHEBURG
GT5 should add money to buy cars and racing+ sound. Racing is not included in the package and all the cars are impossible to get without grinding to death. Sound is the worst in history of driving games compared to todays machines.
So if they get that from SHift then there might be a future for GT. Otherwise this is the last gt for me, time to have fun and not get irritated over a porly designed game.
So if they get that from SHift then there might be a future for GT. Otherwise this is the last gt for me, time to have fun and not get irritated over a porly designed game.
- 1,214
Grid AI may seem alive yet they have some serious rubber banding as well. They wreck most of the time just because they are in front of you.
Shift AI have a serious problem at the first corner as well as serious rubber banding. Thankfully PC mod line them up with the faster car in front so they don't crash into each other at the first corner. This was cause by have slower cars in front and all the AI trying to use the exact same line in the corners. So Shift AI also want to use the same lines.
Before the PC mod F1 2010 AI were braking too early in most corners just like GT5. There were only a few track the AI were descent in.
GT5 AI is better at passing even though maybe too passive than Shift AI. GT5 AI just needs a hard level which makes the AI run wide open the whole race as well line the grid up fastest car in front like FM3 does.
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- 227
- Rio de Janeiro
Cucobr:
it's funny to see Shift 2 lovers trying prove something doesn't exist.
Shift 2 is totaly arcade... the creator of the game also says that. So...he creator says he finds boring simulations and arcade games more fun.
Shift 2 is arcade.
Spagetti69
Cool story.
-----------
GT5 isn't a game, claims Shift 2 producer
Sony and Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5 is not considered a game by Shift 2 producer Jesse Abney.
Abney told VideoGamer.com that in his eyes, a product needs to meet certain criteria in order to be classified as a game. When judged against this criteria, he believes Gran Turismo 5 falls short.
"I've never really considered GT5 a game," Abney told VideoGamer.com. "A game to us equals fun, equals entertainment - and Need For Speed has always been about entertaining and fun.
"You play GT5, you get a scientific approach to driving. Physics simulations are often subjective, and again - we find we're not presenting the same kind of physics simulation in the race day environment that GT5 is doing in their driving simulation."
Despite operating in the same video game genre, Abney concluded that the two titles don't really compete.
"We've never really professed to compete against them, we've just said that we want to deliver a fun, exciting, visceral, entertaining racing experience."
Source?
http://www.videogamer.com/news/gt5_isnt_a_game_claims_shift_2_producer.html
What now? Cool story?
GeneralJesh:
Because GT5 is the best "simulation", right ? Right ?
----------
do you know InsideSimRacing? Probably not.
They are expert in simulation racing games.
They evaluated two cars of Gran Turismo 5, Audi R8 5.2 Quattro and Subaru Impreza WRX STi.
Audi R8 5.2 Quattro:
- Physics 16.5 / 20
- Models 10/10
- Sound 11.75/15
- Cockpit 9.5/10
- Fun Factor 8.25/10
- Immersive 8.25/10
- Force Feedback 9 / 10
- Damage 0.75 / 5
- Skin 2 / 5
- Setup 4.75 / 5
Final 80.75
If Damage and Skin iwere 5 / 5, the end result would be 88. Entering the Top 20 of most cars that come close to reality.
And they did not evaluate the Mercedes SLS (Box art of the game) and the Nissan GT-R.
Only with this note of the Audi R8, he already has overcome two cars iRacing.
GT5 has 1031 cars.
iRacing has less than 30.
iRacing simulator is more than GT5? No.
Why?
iRacing tracks can be scanned by laser and most cars with better physics than GT5, but not all cars.
GT5 has, rain, snow, night, weather changes, Rally, progression of time and more and all that influences the way you drive. It's a driving experience far more complete.
Not to mention the very best visual and graphics in Gran Turismo 5
it's funny to see Shift 2 lovers trying prove something doesn't exist.
Shift 2 is totaly arcade... the creator of the game also says that. So...he creator says he finds boring simulations and arcade games more fun.
Shift 2 is arcade.
Spagetti69
Cool story.
-----------
GT5 isn't a game, claims Shift 2 producer
Sony and Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5 is not considered a game by Shift 2 producer Jesse Abney.
Abney told VideoGamer.com that in his eyes, a product needs to meet certain criteria in order to be classified as a game. When judged against this criteria, he believes Gran Turismo 5 falls short.
"I've never really considered GT5 a game," Abney told VideoGamer.com. "A game to us equals fun, equals entertainment - and Need For Speed has always been about entertaining and fun.
"You play GT5, you get a scientific approach to driving. Physics simulations are often subjective, and again - we find we're not presenting the same kind of physics simulation in the race day environment that GT5 is doing in their driving simulation."
Despite operating in the same video game genre, Abney concluded that the two titles don't really compete.
"We've never really professed to compete against them, we've just said that we want to deliver a fun, exciting, visceral, entertaining racing experience."
Source?
http://www.videogamer.com/news/gt5_isnt_a_game_claims_shift_2_producer.html
What now? Cool story?
GeneralJesh:
Because GT5 is the best "simulation", right ? Right ?
----------
do you know InsideSimRacing? Probably not.
They are expert in simulation racing games.
They evaluated two cars of Gran Turismo 5, Audi R8 5.2 Quattro and Subaru Impreza WRX STi.
Audi R8 5.2 Quattro:
- Physics 16.5 / 20
- Models 10/10
- Sound 11.75/15
- Cockpit 9.5/10
- Fun Factor 8.25/10
- Immersive 8.25/10
- Force Feedback 9 / 10
- Damage 0.75 / 5
- Skin 2 / 5
- Setup 4.75 / 5
Final 80.75
If Damage and Skin iwere 5 / 5, the end result would be 88. Entering the Top 20 of most cars that come close to reality.
And they did not evaluate the Mercedes SLS (Box art of the game) and the Nissan GT-R.
Only with this note of the Audi R8, he already has overcome two cars iRacing.
GT5 has 1031 cars.
iRacing has less than 30.
iRacing simulator is more than GT5? No.
Why?
iRacing tracks can be scanned by laser and most cars with better physics than GT5, but not all cars.
GT5 has, rain, snow, night, weather changes, Rally, progression of time and more and all that influences the way you drive. It's a driving experience far more complete.
Not to mention the very best visual and graphics in Gran Turismo 5
- 4,323
Cucobr:
it's funny to see Shift 2 lovers trying prove something doesn't exist.
Shift 2 is totaly arcade... the creator of the game also says that. So...he creator says he finds boring simulations and arcade games more fun.
Shift 2 is arcade.
Spagetti69
Cool story.
-----------
GT5 isn't a game, claims Shift 2 producer
Sony and Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5 is not considered a game by Shift 2 producer Jesse Abney.
Abney told VideoGamer.com that in his eyes, a product needs to meet certain criteria in order to be classified as a game. When judged against this criteria, he believes Gran Turismo 5 falls short.
"I've never really considered GT5 a game," Abney told VideoGamer.com. "A game to us equals fun, equals entertainment - and Need For Speed has always been about entertaining and fun.
"You play GT5, you get a scientific approach to driving. Physics simulations are often subjective, and again - we find we're not presenting the same kind of physics simulation in the race day environment that GT5 is doing in their driving simulation."
Despite operating in the same video game genre, Abney concluded that the two titles don't really compete.
"We've never really professed to compete against them, we've just said that we want to deliver a fun, exciting, visceral, entertaining racing experience."
Source?
http://www.videogamer.com/news/gt5_isnt_a_game_claims_shift_2_producer.html
What now? Cool story?
GeneralJesh:
Because GT5 is the best "simulation", right ? Right ?
----------
do you know InsideSimRacing? Probably not.
They are expert in simulation racing games.
They evaluated two cars of Gran Turismo 5, Audi R8 5.2 Quattro and Subaru Impreza WRX STi.
Audi R8 5.2 Quattro:
- Physics 16.5 / 20
- Models 10/10
- Sound 11.75/15
- Cockpit 9.5/10
- Fun Factor 8.25/10
- Immersive 8.25/10
- Force Feedback 9 / 10
- Damage 0.75 / 5
- Skin 2 / 5
- Setup 4.75 / 5
Final 80.75
If Damage and Skin iwere 5 / 5, the end result would be 88. Entering the Top 20 of most cars that come close to reality.
And they did not evaluate the Mercedes SLS (Box art of the game) and the Nissan GT-R.
Only with this note of the Audi R8, he already has overcome two cars iRacing.
GT5 has 1031 cars.
iRacing has less than 30.
iRacing simulator is more than GT5? No.
Why?
iRacing tracks can be scanned by laser and most cars with better physics than GT5, but not all cars.
GT5 has, rain, snow, night, weather changes, Rally, progression of time and more and all that influences the way you drive. It's a driving experience far more complete.
Not to mention the very best visual and graphics in Gran Turismo 5
I like how when it's GT5 vs Shift, it's "best physics is all that matters, without that, nothing else does" but then when it's GT5 vs Iracing it's "yeah but look at the number of cars and cost..."
- 3,232
- Wales
For sure, iRacing physics are superior to GT5 in most areas, along with the FFB which feels much better, and for sure that gives a more enjoyable racing experience to an extent. GT5 does excell in other areas though, the drifting in GT5 is fantastic.
We all know NFS-Shift 2 is not going to be a simulation like GT5 or iRacing, so its silly argue about such things.
Shift 2 is likely to be a semi-sim type game like F1 2010. It will still probably be a cool game worth buying, but it's not going to be realistic.
We all know NFS-Shift 2 is not going to be a simulation like GT5 or iRacing, so its silly argue about such things.
Shift 2 is likely to be a semi-sim type game like F1 2010. It will still probably be a cool game worth buying, but it's not going to be realistic.
- 2,010
- Portugal
- jikamehameha
- JShadowKing
Cucobr:
it's funny to see Shift 2 lovers trying prove something doesn't exist.
Shift 2 is totaly arcade... the creator of the game also says that. So...he creator says he finds boring simulations and arcade games more fun.
Shift 2 is arcade.
Spagetti69
Cool story.
-----------
GT5 isn't a game, claims Shift 2 producer
Sony and Polyphony Digital's Gran Turismo 5 is not considered a game by Shift 2 producer Jesse Abney.
Abney told VideoGamer.com that in his eyes, a product needs to meet certain criteria in order to be classified as a game. When judged against this criteria, he believes Gran Turismo 5 falls short.
"I've never really considered GT5 a game," Abney told VideoGamer.com. "A game to us equals fun, equals entertainment - and Need For Speed has always been about entertaining and fun.
"You play GT5, you get a scientific approach to driving. Physics simulations are often subjective, and again - we find we're not presenting the same kind of physics simulation in the race day environment that GT5 is doing in their driving simulation."
Despite operating in the same video game genre, Abney concluded that the two titles don't really compete.
"We've never really professed to compete against them, we've just said that we want to deliver a fun, exciting, visceral, entertaining racing experience."
Source?
http://www.videogamer.com/news/gt5_isnt_a_game_claims_shift_2_producer.html
What now? Cool story?
GeneralJesh:
Because GT5 is the best "simulation", right ? Right ?
----------
do you know InsideSimRacing? Probably not.
They are expert in simulation racing games.
They evaluated two cars of Gran Turismo 5, Audi R8 5.2 Quattro and Subaru Impreza WRX STi.
Audi R8 5.2 Quattro:
- Physics 16.5 / 20
- Models 10/10
- Sound 11.75/15
- Cockpit 9.5/10
- Fun Factor 8.25/10
- Immersive 8.25/10
- Force Feedback 9 / 10
- Damage 0.75 / 5
- Skin 2 / 5
- Setup 4.75 / 5
Final 80.75
If Damage and Skin iwere 5 / 5, the end result would be 88. Entering the Top 20 of most cars that come close to reality.
And they did not evaluate the Mercedes SLS (Box art of the game) and the Nissan GT-R.
Only with this note of the Audi R8, he already has overcome two cars iRacing.
GT5 has 1031 cars.
iRacing has less than 30.
iRacing simulator is more than GT5? No.
Why?
iRacing tracks can be scanned by laser and most cars with better physics than GT5, but not all cars.
GT5 has, rain, snow, night, weather changes, Rally, progression of time and more and all that influences the way you drive. It's a driving experience far more complete.
Not to mention the very best visual and graphics in Gran Turismo 5
I find this post very interesting...
I also have a single question...have Shift 2 already been released?
- 4,323
- 926
- machschnel
Destinkeys
(Banned)
- 1,199
- Destinkeys
Don't we have a Shift vs. GT5 thread somewhere?
You want to argue physics, get off this thread. This thread is about things from S2U that would improve GT5, NOT things from GT5 that would improve S2U...
I can think of at LEAST a dozen things off the top of my head (and this thread is full of many, many more) that are in Shift, and would make GT5 MUCH, much better. No-one is saying (but you are acting like it has been said) that, to get these things in GT5, you have to GIVE UP GT5's physics.
Stop being so 🤬 defensive. You've got good physics. There.... feel better?
Now.... how about the REST of the game?
You want to argue physics, get off this thread. This thread is about things from S2U that would improve GT5, NOT things from GT5 that would improve S2U...
I can think of at LEAST a dozen things off the top of my head (and this thread is full of many, many more) that are in Shift, and would make GT5 MUCH, much better. No-one is saying (but you are acting like it has been said) that, to get these things in GT5, you have to GIVE UP GT5's physics.
Stop being so 🤬 defensive. You've got good physics. There.... feel better?
Now.... how about the REST of the game?
- 227
- Rio de Janeiro
Don't we have a Shift vs. GT5 thread somewhere?
You want to argue physics, get off this thread. This thread is about things from S2U that would improve GT5, NOT things from GT5 that would improve S2U...
I can think of at LEAST a dozen things off the top of my head (and this thread is full of many, many more) that are in Shift, and would make GT5 MUCH, much better. No-one is saying (but you are acting like it has been said) that, to get these things in GT5, you have to GIVE UP GT5's physics.
Stop being so 🤬 defensive. You've got good physics. There.... feel better?
Now.... how about the REST of the game?
There is only one thing that has Shift 2 and GT5 does not.
And yet, I'm still in doubt whether it is worth.
helmet's vision.
I can only say that this is a good thing or not after playing the game.
Shift 2 track list is way better than GT5, why could they not get any of the licenced tracks from this list (Bolded Licenced Tracks not in Gt5)
Alpental
Ambush Canyon
Bathurst
Brands Hatch
Brno
Catalunya
Dakota
Dijon-Prenois
Donington
Dubai Autodrome
Ebisu
Enna Pergusa
Glendale
Hazyview
Hockinheim
Irwindale Speedway
London
Miami
Miyatoma
Monza
Nordschleife
Nurburgring
Oscherleben
Riviera
Raod America
Rustle Creek
Shanghai
Silverstone
Tokyo
Zolder
also 7 locked tracks
Alpental
Ambush Canyon
Bathurst
Brands Hatch
Brno
Catalunya
Dakota
Dijon-Prenois
Donington
Dubai Autodrome
Ebisu
Enna Pergusa
Glendale
Hazyview
Hockinheim
Irwindale Speedway
London
Miami
Miyatoma
Monza
Nordschleife
Nurburgring
Oscherleben
Riviera
Raod America
Rustle Creek
Shanghai
Silverstone
Tokyo
Zolder
also 7 locked tracks
- 1,495
cool ideas!
the crash vision thing does not move me either way. I think it might be nice for atmosphere.
I know that SimBin has a "look to apex" option for the past 6 or 7 years (?). What is nice is that it can be turned ON or OFF. When turned ON there is a slider to adjust how much angle your head turns to look to apex. This is a good feature that works!
- 1,495
👎
Wrong! you are out of touch with many things. As all things they do make mistakes or some people have differences, however, serious racing simmers take the show seriously and with pleasure!
- 3,232
- Wales
Its a cool show and they are cool guys, but hardcore sim racers don't take them seriously, over on the iRacing forums there are rarely any people who take the guys seriously, i've heard such things as "clowns, cowboys" being used, and iRacing is their sponser.
The guys are not hardcore simracers, they like their arcade/semi-sim games too and they are open minded, but that open-mindedness is what the hardcore players shy away from, because their views differ.
Example, many PC sim racers will throw around the idea that Forza 3 and GT5 are arcade games, games like F1 2010 and NFS-Shift completely shunned as arcade games. Games that Inside Sim Racing have endorsed and spoken highly of.
Like i said, its a cool show and i've been watching it since last august(ish), Jessica is a babe!, but I think you're out of touch with how things really are.
- 926
- machschnel
Exactly. I predominately spend my time on iRacing, and it's rare to hear something positive in regards to Inside Sim Racing, especially after their Forza 3 "review". Just please, watch their Forza 3 review. While I enjoy playing it, I can't bring myself to agree with their praise of the game.
Also, the WRX from Dirt 2, is ranked 29th on their list of "Best Simulation cars ever". I'm not even kidding.
Sim racing indeed.
- 2,845
Exactly. Despite the developer's bold claims saying that Shift 2 will have the "most realistic physics in any racing game", we all know it's just clever marketing. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but it's silly to argue otherwise when a) it's not out yet, and b) it's just not true.
As for F1 2010, most people refer to it as an arcade/sim racer, but I think it's definitely more towards the sim end of the scale. I think Codemasters deserve more praise for that game, because they are one of the only people to date to make a sim which is actually fun to play
- 268
- Melbourne, Australia
- evilserpentman
In my experience with EA ports to PS3, they have been dreadful. EA seem to have a habit of making an Xbox game and then trying to hammer it in shape for the PS3.
Shift 1 had an average frame rate at best on the PS3, let's see if they fix that.
The effects are there for the sense of speed, but I honestly had to take a break every fifteen minutes, purely because my eyes were going to bleed.
Worst however was the driver points, it encouraged dirty driving. Clean driving was rewarded, but no-where near the levels of 'agressive' driving. You always had some legend bumping you on multiplayer because it was encouraged by the game...
Regarding the whole GT5 Vs. Shift arguement; they are two different ideas of the same thing.
One is flashy, one is functional. It's up to you which you prefer.
Shift 1 had an average frame rate at best on the PS3, let's see if they fix that.
The effects are there for the sense of speed, but I honestly had to take a break every fifteen minutes, purely because my eyes were going to bleed.
Worst however was the driver points, it encouraged dirty driving. Clean driving was rewarded, but no-where near the levels of 'agressive' driving. You always had some legend bumping you on multiplayer because it was encouraged by the game...
Regarding the whole GT5 Vs. Shift arguement; they are two different ideas of the same thing.
One is flashy, one is functional. It's up to you which you prefer.
