NFS Shift 2 - Things GT5 could/should implement.

[JJ72]

NFS will never be a simulator or racing sim, that is because their customers arent enthusiasts. Real enthusiats play forza and gt5, because they are the moste accurate simulators for consoles.

I always feel the most hardcore fanboys of GT5 are those who actually can't tell the difference between a good sim or a bad sim, and simply land on GT5 because of the general opinion that it is the best. It gives them a sense of superiority, very often reflected in posts that disses other games being arcade.

And seeing how 90% of the people online run nothing but racing softs ALL THE TIME, only a handful for GT5 fans are actually qualified car enthusiasts in my book. I actually think real enthusiasts should be more open to other games because there isn't one perfect game that provide a all rounded experience yet, and that includes the PC sim.

I enjoy real track days, karting, PC sim, semi sims and sometime even a bit of sonic all-star racing......I just love racing games, sometimes for real competition, sometime just to mess around, so not all the players in more casual racing games are amateurs who don't know better. This myth of GT5 players being the hardcore bunch in console is frankly just another illusion, i mean, look at all the ranting about the first two seasonals and vettel challenge being hard.

 

[Fredde_swe]

Publisher and developer are two different things.

Also, assists will be on by default for the dumb masses, just like they are on by default in GT5 for the dumb masses.

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? I believe you need a history lesson from someone who has been into sim racers for many years.

EA published this game called F1 Challenge 02 which used the ISI created engine. SimBin started as a mod group who made a mod using said highly regarded engine to make a FIA GT mod. Because of the quality of their mod, they later became a professional development team and made GTR which used a customized version of said ISI engine that powered said game EA originally published.

To sum it up nicely, you wouldn't even have GTR2 if it wasn't for EA.

Yes, I know the difference between a publisher and a developer.

I also know that EA have destroyed alot of great series in recent years, NFS is one of them. In year 2002 EA was still a great and respected company.

Personally I can't find any reason why SimBin would have changed the physics to the worse if it wasn't for EA. Just give me Shift with the physics from GTR2 and I would be happy and wouldn't touch any other racing games to console.

 

[SohnVonStig]

Don't kid yourself, "real enthusiast" drive "real cars".

That doesn't mean they don't play sims or video games as well. I'm definitely a "real enthusiast" but I unfortunately don't have the time to get my car out to the track or the money for that matter. I have a car that I bought specifically for track use so I think I qualify as a real enthusiast

AS an enthusiast I personally enjoy just driving in gt5 more than racing. The difference for me is that I drive in cockpit view for "driving" and bumper cam for racing. I don't find either to be that realistic but both are fun. It's funny I feel like I'm going faster with bumper cam and yet it's easier for me to aim the car and react. Obviously restriction of view in the cockpit is an issue so, yes, looking toward the apex would be cool...

But, GT5 is already released, they "shouldn't" implement anything, the fact that we're still getting updates is AWESOME.

By the way machshnel, I realize that since I'm joining the conversation late, not all that was a response to your post

 

[JJ72]

Personally I can't find any reason why SimBin would change the physics to the worse in Shift if it wasn't for EA.

The relative obscurity of GTR EVO is enough of a reason in my opinion.

The console market and PC market is simply made up of different people, with different expectations, the console experience is always more entertainment orientated rather than focusing on nit-picking details.

 

[Ben78]

NFS Shift 2 is a joke comparing to gt5 really. The physics wont be near as good, and the carlist is like 60 somparing to 1200 in gt5. Come on man, NFS will never be a simulator or racing sim, that is because their customers arent enthusiasts. Real enthusiats play forza and gt5, because they are the moste accurate simulators for consoles.

GT5 has about, 1031 cars and S2 has around 150 cars. I don't know where you got that 1200 cars, but anyways, by the time you get those thousand cars, the year will be 2018. Technically, GT5 has about 50 more cars than other games. They took cars from the PS2, big deal, the work was already done. S2 has 100% "premium" cars, that means cockpit view, unique engine sound and FULL customization.

 

[Ben78]

I always feel the most hardcore fanboys of GT5 are those who actually can't tell the difference between a good sim or a bad sim, and simply land on GT5 because of the general opinion that it is the best. It gives them a sense of superiority, very often reflected in posts that disses other games being arcade.

And seeing how 90% of the people online run nothing but racing softs ALL THE TIME, only a handful for GT5 fans are actually qualified car enthusiasts in my book. I actually think real enthusiasts should be more open to other games because there isn't one perfect game that provide a all rounded experience yet, and that includes the PC sim.

I enjoy real track days, karting, PC sim, semi sims and sometime even a bit of sonic all-star racing......I just love racing games, sometimes for real competition, sometime just to mess around, so not all the players in more casual racing games are amateurs who don't know better. This myth of GT5 players being the hardcore bunch in console is frankly just another illusion, i mean, look at all the ranting about the first two seasonals and vettel challenge being hard.

You also forgot the 12 years old "enthusiasts" who drives X1's online and crashes in every single car.

 

[deftonesmx17]

Yes, I know the difference between a publisher and a developer.

Well it sure as heck didn't sound like you did, but my apologies.

I also know that EA have destroyed alot of great series in recent years, NFS is one of them. In year 2002 EA was still a great and respected company.

What!?!?!?
The NFS series has had a comeback if you ask me. Hot Pursuit and Shift are in my humble opinion far better than any of the past NFS titles.
EA respected in 2002, not in my book; maybe back in the 90's.

Personally I can't find any reason why SimBin would have changed the physics to the worse if it wasn't for EA. Just give me Shift with the physics from GTR2 and I would be happy and wouldn't touch any other racing games to console.

SimBin did not change anything. SMS is not SimBin. Yes, some of the SimBin team is now part of Slightly Mad Studios, but they are not one in the same.

I enjoy real track days, karting, PC sim, semi sims and sometime even a bit of sonic all-star racing......I just love racing games, sometimes for real competition, sometime just to mess around, so not all the players in more casual racing games are amateurs who don't know better. This myth of GT5 players being the hardcore bunch in console is frankly just another illusion, i mean, look at all the ranting about the first two seasonals and vettel challenge being hard.

+10000000000000000000000
Some of us just like racing games in general. Like you, I dig sims, semi-sims, and even utter arcade games. Doesn't matter to me as long as I am having fun and I am all I'm really worried about.

 

[brainfade]

Listen to the sound in the Pagani replay video, do you think that sound is closer to reality?

Straight cut gears sound in a production car and a rubbish sound engine, is that what you call accurate?

Yes, the only problem with the sound in GT5 is the lack of samples. But it has one of the best sounds engines in a racing game.

Compare with this

[YOUTUBEHD]t_4qp_9kIaw&hd=1[/YOUTUBEHD]

Sorry to burst your bubble but ive been to many Super GT races and that sounds NOTHING like it should.

 

[Destinkeys]

^ Haha yeah its funny because it doesn't matter what proof you give or how much experience you have because someone will always ask for more proof or argue that it's FOV or perspective or something like that.

I'm not trying to dismiss the game, just stating the obvious

Edit: And good point about the fun vs. realism thing. I find realism fun but some don't. As for the track model, Rfactor has the best I have seen so far

That same corner comes at 1:15, right? Looks pretty wide, there, too. Plus, a hood cam is not the same FOV than a cockpit cam. It is clear that S2U's car is well further off the racing line to the right than either of the shots you posted. That's going to flatten out the curve, and make the track look wider.

About the realism/fun sliding scale...

Real racing IS fun! If the game fails to recreate it, it isn't 'real', no matter HOW close the physics gets. Online, sure, you can (if you are lucky/connected/talented/equipped correctly) get a decent real race as long as there are no idiots determined to ruin it for you (rare, IMO), But in the game itself, all you can do is hotlap a bunch of slower similar cars, or go race in a car massively outpowered by its opponents, and overtake them in the bends and get overtaken on the straights.

You can't POSSIBLY be telling me that is either real OR fun, can you?

 

[Fredde_swe]

Sorry to burst your bubble but ive been to many Super GT races and that sounds NOTHING like it should.

Like I said, GT5 lack samples but the sound engine itself is one of the best in a racing game

 

[Destinkeys]

BTW, just thought of one MORE thing from Shift GT5 could do with...

Online, during a race, whoever was talking had their name lit up. In GT5, you have no idea unless you see and hear them in the Lobby beforehand.

It's nice to KNOW who is the douchebag so you can mute him straight away... be nice if the douchebag KNEW he had been muted, also!

Be nice if there was a one button 'Mute All' command, too. If I want to hear ten-year olds swear, I can visit Junior School playgrounds..

 

[Fredde_swe]

That same corner comes at 1:15, right? Looks pretty wide, there, too. Plus, a hood cam is not the same FOV than a cockpit cam. It is clear that S2U's car is well further off the racing line to the right than either of the shots you posted. That's going to flatten out the curve, and make the track look wider.

About the realism/fun sliding scale...

Real racing IS fun! If the game fails to recreate it, it isn't 'real', no matter HOW close the physics gets. Online, sure, you can (if you are lucky/connected/talented/equipped correctly) get a decent real race as long as there are no idiots determined to ruin it for you (rare, IMO), But in the game itself, all you can do is hotlap a bunch of slower similar cars, or go race in a car massively outpowered by its opponents, and overtake them in the bends and get overtaken on the straights.

You can't POSSIBLY be telling me that is either real OR fun, can you?

Tell me one racing game which is fun offline racing against AI. Sure, it can be fun. But nowadays, online will always win. It doesn't matter how good the AI is, racing against other humans will always be better. But as I said before, I only play racing games with my friends during the winter = 5 months of snow here in Sweden Longing for summer when we can go to a real track and drive.

If the physics is right, and you are into sims, the racing will be fun.

 

[Diesel Pump]

The real sad thing is that Gran Turismo is now in the need of adopting other games features...

That is just how good Gran Turismo is being perceived by gamers...

 

[deftonesmx17]

Tell me one racing game which is fun offline racing against AI. Sure, it can be fun. But nowadays, online will always win. It doesn't matter how good the AI is, racing against other humans will always be better. But as I said before, I only play racing games with my friends during the winter = 5 months of snow here in Sweden Longing for summer when we can go to a real track and drive.

If the physics is right, and you are into sims, the racing will be fun.

It doesn't matter how professional the players online act, you will always have to deal with that one guy who wants to run you off the track or race backwards for no good reason.

Sadly, only one of my friends plays racing games and drives seriously. Everyone else just want to play COD Crap Ops. Therefore, tell me how fun is it really to just race against one other person?
For people like me, the single player experience is highly important.

Oh and to answer your question about racing the AI. GTR2, GRID, Shift, DIRT, FORZA, and especially F1 2010.

 

[Spagetti69]

Proper hood cam.
Leader boards/ autolog.
Livery editor.
RM all cars.
All cars premium.
Able to choose paint colour on a whim.
Change rims.
Save tunes.
Telemetry and realtime adjustments.


Sorry for being on topic.

Carry on lads.

 

[RugerGuy]

GT5 looks real.

Yeah, because the PS2 quality renderings of the 800 standard cars is sooo realistic.

 

[Destinkeys]

Tell me one racing game which is fun offline racing against AI. Sure, it can be fun. But nowadays, online will always win. It doesn't matter how good the AI is, racing against other humans will always be better.

Way to answer your own question!

Shift's AI were no pushover. S2U's will doubtless be at LEAST as good (PD seem the only game developers DETERMINED to make the current game worse than the previous!).

Were they as good as a GOOD human? No way! Were they better than an average one? You bet!

I am a little worried by S2U's adoption of the system used in HP where you primarily race Friends. The old, easy matchmaking system always gave me a huge range of races to easily get into and out of, without too many choices (which is what dilutes GT5's, IMO) and too many options. So, I am even more concerned about the AI.

Maybe you bailed on Shift because of the physics (but I only have PS3, so no option at that point for me) and went back to GT4, but you perhaps missed out on the opportunity to see what a REAL racing game could be if it had decent AI?

 

[Fredde_swe]

It doesn't matter how professional the players online act, you will always have to deal with that one guy who wants to run you off the track or race backwards for no good reason.

Sadly, only one of my friends plays racing games and drives seriously. Everyone else just want to play COD Crap Ops. Therefore, tell me how fun is it really to just race against one other person?
For people like me, the single player experience is highly important.

Oh and to answer your question about racing the AI. GTR2, GRID, Shift, DIRT, FORZA, and especially F1 2010.

Then you have to find some serious drivers. I'm sure you can find serious people here you can race with

Even if the games you mentioned have decent AI, they AI always follow the same pattern which you will notice after a while, and then it gets boring. Don't forget how awesome it's to win when you are racing with your friends, and you hear all silly excuses

That's a part of gameplay for me, a part of the 'atmosphere'. When I win against AI, what should I do, be happy because I beat the computer? No, racing against the computer doesn't satisfy me. Feels like playing Counter Strike with bots.

 

[F1Addict]

Spa at night. 🤬 awesome!

 

[deftonesmx17]

Even if the games you mentioned have decent AI, they AI always follow the same pattern which you will notice after a while, and then it gets boring.

Way to prove that you have not played any of them or are seriously that biased towards GT. I suggest you play any of the Codemaster games I mentioned and you'll notice immediately that the AI seems alive. Good lord, just take GRID for example. Drivers make mistakes, accidentally bump into each other and lose control, and no they don't follow the same pattern every time. Jackass number one wont always lose control in turn 2 because he was programmed to do so. He'll lose control because someone bumped him or forced him to quickly switch his racing line and obviously at a bad time.

You've obviously been playing GT far too often if you think all racing game AI is line driven like its appears to be more often than not in GT.

As for F1 2010; I find it awesome when the AI beats me out of the last turn and I am making excuses for myself when I lose...to the AI.

 

[trangurismo]

Ignore this post.

 

[Destinkeys]

I hate to try and bring this thread back OnT, but take a look at its title...

Everyone is basically saying that the ONLY way to get a competitive race in GT5 is go online. So what the hell is WRONG with adding a competitive AI (stolen from Shift or S2U) to the game? What is WRONG with replacing the vacuum cleaner sounds with something a bit more exciting (and bottom line, closer to the truth)?

What is WRONG with leaderboards, engine swaps, best lap time at the end of the race, and the myriad things that S2U and Shift DO have over GT5? You are telling us it would be a WORSE game for it?

Please...!

 

[TT3AZ]

GT5 has about, 1031 cars and S2 has around 150 cars. I don't know where you got that 1200 cars, but anyways, by the time you get those thousand cars, the year will be 2018. Technically, GT5 has about 50 more cars than other games. They took cars from the PS2, big deal, the work was already done. S2 has 100% "premium" cars, that means cockpit view, unique engine sound and FULL customization.

Well, gt5 has also 800 standard cars, and really i like them, i wouldnt mind having 1000 standard cars. You know why? Well its because the driving feeling, anc actually the driving that is fun, and the huge variety of cars that you can find in this game. No other game will give you that thrill finding that rare car in the UCD. Shift cant be compared to gt5 period. Since when could need for speed be compared to gran turismo or forza series? The only good need for speed was porsche unleached.

I doubt shift 2 will have physics near as good as gt5, and according to me EA will never make a game that has focus on physics. And still shift 2 only have 150 cars, most of them boring supercars like i dont like. The thing with gt5 is that there are more then enough regular cars, which i like.

 

[trk29]

Shift 2 looks amazing in trailers, GT5 looked absolutely perfect in trailers. Lesson is, don't judge what a game does good by trailers, because they don't show you the bad things. The first shift had a lot more things wrong with it than GT5, especially when it came to the sim aspects of it. Shift 2 has to show me you can use a wheel properly before I will consider spending money on it. The one thing it has going for it is it's tracklist, though.

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/5346604.page

PS3 supported wheels:

•Nascar Racing Wheel


•Logitech Driving Force


•Logitech Driving Force EX


•Logitech Driving Force Pro


•Logitech G25 Racing Wheel


•Logitech G27 Racing Wheel – full support for all buttons


•Logitech Driving Force GT


•Fanatec Porsche 911 Turbo S (and similar models)


•Thurstmaster F430 FFB


•Thurstmaster RGT FFB Clutch


X360 supported wheels:

•Microsoft Force Feedback Wheel and compatible wheels (eg, Fanatec Porsche 911 Turbo S and similar, Logitech DriveFX, etc).


PC

•Logitech G27 Racing Wheel – full support for all buttons


•Logitech G25 Racing Wheel


•Logitech Driving Force GT


•Logitech Formula Force EX


•Logitech Driving Force


•Logitech Driving Force EX


•Logitech Driving Force RX


•Logitech Driving Force Pro


•Logitech MOMO Force


•Logitech MOMO Racing


•Thrustmaster RGT FFB Pro Clutch


•Thrustmaster Ferrari GT Experience


•Thrustmaster Ferrari 430


•Fanatec Porsche 911 Turbo S (and similar models)

 

[dazman]

If you want good headtracking, look to apex etc, try any of the simbin games, enough mods and content to keep me happy in the five years betwen GT4 breaking and GT5 arriving, do have to have a good wheel though. That and the fact it supported 45 car+ multiclass grids

 

[Fredde_swe]

Way to prove that you have not played any of them or are seriously that biased towards GT. I suggest you play any of the Codemaster games I mentioned and you'll notice immediately that the AI seems alive. Good lord, just take GRID for example. Drivers make mistakes, accidentally bump into each other and lose control, and no they don't follow the same pattern every time. Jackass number one wont always lose control in turn 2 because he was programmed to do so. He'll lose control because someone bumped him or forced him to quickly switch his racing line and obviously at a bad time.

You've obviously been playing GT far too often if you think all racing game AI is line driven like its appears to be more often than not in GT.

As for F1 2010; I find it awesome when the AI beats me out of the last turn and I am making excuses for myself when I lose...to the AI.

Actually I haven't played GT5 offline so much, the only reason why I have played A-spec at all is because of the money.

I don't think the AI feels alive just because they make mistakes or driving aggresive, cause it's still programmed. I have never played F1 2010, but I have Forza 3, Shift, Ferrari Challenge, GRID, Dirt and didn't like the AI in none of these titles, but they still have better AI than in GT5.

But in the end, develop great AI is really hard today so think it's just a waste of time and money to do so when we can play with other people online.

 

[brambos]

But in the end, develop great AI is really hard today so think it's just a waste of time and money to do so when we can play with other people online.

But I don't want to play online. I hate having to rely on strangers and an internet connection for my gaming. Been there, done that (10 years ago, in the Quake 2 days) and it got old really quickly.

What I hate most is how online makes developers lazy. I for one am not happy getting only half a game. 👎

 

[Cucobr]

it's funny to see Shift 2 lovers trying prove something doesn't exist.

Shift 2 is totaly arcade... the creator of the game also says that. So...he creator says he finds boring simulations and arcade games more fun.

Shift 2 is arcade.

 

[Spagetti69]

it's funny to see Shift 2 lovers trying prove something doesn't exist.

Shift 2 is totaly arcade... the creator of the game also says that. So...he creator says he finds boring simulations and arcade games more fun.

Shift 2 is arcade.

Cool story.

 

[GeneralJesh]

it's funny to see Shift 2 lovers trying prove something doesn't exist.

Shift 2 is totaly arcade... the creator of the game also says that. So...he creator says he finds boring simulations and arcade games more fun.

Shift 2 is arcade.

Because GT5 is the best "simulation", right ? Right ?