NFS Shift 2 - Things GT5 could/should implement.

[Devedander]

I have never had good luck with look to apex... the problem is that one way or another suddenly your perspective is changed and without momentum to aid your senses it becomes very hard to maintain attitude correlation.

It becomes a game of do something, see what happens and respond when trying to figure out if you are turning strong enough and I find the result to be about equivalent to having mouse acceleration turned on when playing an FPS... the controls feel floaty.

The only time look to Apex works for me is in a multimonitor/wraparound setup where you can turn your head and the image stays aligned to your body so you know immediately how far your vision is skewed from center.

Last time I hit a wall at a track day, I am pretty certain I didn't lose my ability to see colour and my vision didn't blur either. I hit the thing hard too...... first NFS Shift deserved about 30 seconds of my time and then it was swiftly returned to the shops because it was rubbish.

I am pretty sure last time you bumped someone from behind your engine wasn't cut for 8 seconds either or when you hit a barrier you it wasn't cut for 5 seconds.

Sometimes the effects are put into place to make up for the fact that the game can't really rattle your head like an impact would.

I think the guys making Shift said they wanted to include the "fear" of racing... while I am not sure the effect is exactly fear inducing, I think it does give a very tangible desire not to have an impact above and beyond the obvious fact that the impact slows you down.

In GT5 I can go 120mph into a wall outside a banked curve that drops me to 40mps instantly and immediately and realigning myself in the right directly... that doesn't seem right.

Put in full screen and imagine this madness for more than 10 minutes of gameplay:

[youtubehd]kT7HtfyPtUw[/youtubehd]

I can't. That view is more suited for spectacle than for hours of precise sim driving.

It brings the question, is precise driving really a good represntation of the real thing? I know that my first time karting I was blown away by what just doing 45mph 3 inches from the ground can do to your senses... Karting in GT5 at 75mph doesn't make me feel the same at all...

At 120mph you should be getting some tunnel vision and your even good cars are going to be getting some serious bouncing from wind bufeting and road bumps...

When I see videos like that I think that can't be what real drivers see, but then I look at something like the Frex Force Dynamics chair and all the coments from people who say "thats more like a spaceship, real cars don't tip like that!" and have to realize that sometimes doing what they really do isn't what translates into feeling like it really feels...

BTW I love how they include this line in the FAQ

Logitech G25 Racing Wheel
Logitech G27 Racing Wheel – full support for all buttons
Logitech Driving Force GT

As if to drive home what crap it is that GT5 is pretty much the only game that doesn't do this...

 

[Tvensky]

I have just been watching some of the trailers for NFS Shift 2.

I stoped reading there sorry!

 

[Tommy_861]

Shift 2 looks great and if they make good on their promises it seems it will be a lot more of a serious racing game than Shift was.

That said that Cockpit view looks cool but considering how nauseous GT5's cockpit gets me I'm sure the Shift cockpit will make me barf all over the screen. Hope they have a bumper cam.

 

[Devedander]

Shift 2 looks great and if they make good on their promises it seems it will be a lot more of a serious racing game than Shift was.

That's a pretty huge IF... but they've got my interest!

 

[Laughlyn]

Original Shift is a better racing game than GT5 so it figures Shift 2 will be far better.
I just hope the rumour that they removing custom vinyls isnt true because thats one of teh things i enjoy about the NFS games, you can take a car and make it completely yours, u go online and its your tune, ur upgrades, ur wheels and your paintwork. It just needs to be completely overhauled from Shift tho because vinyl editor on that was dreadful.

 

[pantherjag]

Im liking the look of shift 2 and the ideas it incorporates, seen a really long interview/development video regarding the physics and they were bragging how they will be the most realistic ever, something which i really hope is true.

Infact im hoping that as a game and racing/driving sim its surpasses both GT5 and forza 3 just to stop the endless ones better thsan the other argument!!!!

Unfortunately im not to hopeful, whilst it looks good/sounds good it still seems to have the same deplorable handling the first game in the series had.......i mean come on the car in the video posted looks like it turning from the middle.

Back on topic concerning cockpit view............im scepticle as to how many people actually use this view, out of around 30 people on my friends list that play GT5 only 1 uses cockpit view. I honestly believe that developers have been spending far too much time implementing a feature in driving games that is very rarely used and could be spent on other things instead.................that is off course entirely just my opinion, im sure many folk do enjoy cockpit view but i think its probably a minority rather than a majority.

 

[machschnel]

Put in full screen and imagine this madness for more than 10 minutes of gameplay:

[youtubehd]kT7HtfyPtUw[/youtubehd]

I can't. That view is more suited for spectacle than for hours of precise sim driving.

Racing isn't meant to be some sterile operating room, where even the temperature and level of dust is controlled. Moreover, racers aren't robot's.

 

[Big Ron]

Here is a new trailer with exterior- and cockpit-view

 

[Fredde_swe]

Put in full screen and imagine this madness for more than 10 minutes of gameplay:

I can't. That view is more suited for spectacle than for hours of precise sim driving.

That really looked bad.

The physics seems to be exactly like in Shift, you are skidding around all over the track. Impossible to drive cleanly.

The sound, seriously. NFS use to have great engine sound, but in the Shift-series
I guess we will hear the sound from a straight cut transmission in all cars, doesn't matter if the car is tuned or not.

And last but not least, the shaky cockpit camera? I hate it, totally hate it. When you are driving in real life, yes, it's bumpy. But in real life you can and you will be focusing on the road, and therefore you won't notice the bumpiness in the same way.

 

[Silver-Sylph]

Put in full screen and imagine this madness for more than 10 minutes of gameplay:

[youtubehd]kT7HtfyPtUw[/youtubehd]

I can't. That view is more suited for spectacle than for hours of precise sim driving.

What is this? A copy pasta of shift 1. It looks even worse, you still look like your sliding all over the place. 0/10.

 

[Destinkeys]

Certainly eye-candy but I'm afraid it's wasted on me as I'm a staunch supporter of bumper-cam

What on earth does 'bumper cam' simulate? You ever driven an invisible car?

Two points... It's NOT 'bumper cam'. It is NOT the viewpoint from the bumper. It's from driver eye height (that's been demonstrated many times), sitting in an invisible car where you can't see your car's hood/bonnet to judge apexes.

And it has no 'immersion factor', no car body vibrating and bouncing around, no rain on the windshield and wipers, no hood/bonnet.

One of the BEST things PD could have stolen from Shift (Shift 1, at that, didn't need to see it in S2U) is its 'Hood Cam'. IMO, the best way to drive a car. Your TV is the windshield, you see through the windshield (and see the wipers, glass shattering in crashes, bug splats, scratches etc.), there's no wheel in sight... Can't STAND seeing MY hands on MY wheel, then watching someone ELSE'S hands on another wheel in front of me. Last time I saw that view in real life, I was a baby playing 'driver' in the back seat of Dad's car! That what YOU call realism?

 

[Destinkeys]

Here's some other stuff, PD could steal, and by doing so, improve enormously... (in no particular order)

Leaderboards
Car sounds NOT made by Hoover
Car sounds with no audible loops and phasiness
Car sounds that are EXCITING!
Time to other cars displayed on HUD
Best lap times for all drivers displayed (at length) at the end of a race
Competitive AI (with retaliatory tendencies - hit them, they tend to hit back)
FAR more real tracks than fantasy tracks
Grid Girls!
A touge track and an open drift track
No grind
Marbles off the racing line
EVERY car has cockpit and helmet cam view
Savable tuning setups per track
Easy matchmaking online
One make Spec racing online and off
No B-Spec!
Livery editor with mirroring (in S2U)
Paint system includes Gloss, Metallic, Candy, Pearlescent, Chrome, Matte and Flip (twin colour). And no one use paint chips!
Stock cars (base model) already tuned by a tame pro race driver

The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

Every last one of these things would improve GT5 enormously. Some of them are, IMO, essential to a racing game.

Can PD swallow their pride and get onboard? Or will GT6 be Pokemon with cars again?

 

[JoeMaPampang]

Put in full screen and imagine this madness for more than 10 minutes of gameplay:

[youtubehd]kT7HtfyPtUw[/youtubehd]

I can't. That view is more suited for spectacle than for hours of precise sim driving.

That looks terrible it was driving me mad. I played Shift 1 Grid Brought em back soon as i played them. only 30 f/ps It just too much..Shake and other distracting things.

Forza seems too be more refined. GT5 cockpit shake and bodyroll is awesome.

 

[robbo6]

Look to apex is very well done in Simbins games for PC, I have GTR2 and GTREvo and the look to apex is adjustable as is how much "shake" the game has in cockpit view. I WISH Pd would give options and sliders for things rather than arbitrarily setting it one way. If you can't please all the people all the time then put in OPTIONS and you don't have to. People can set the game up the way THEY want it. Then everyones happy!

 

[Devedander]

Well said! Also, Shift 2 runs at a film-ish 30fps. GT5 runs at a TV-style 60fps.

For the record, GT5 runs at UP TO 60 FPS and dips down as low as mid 20's sometimes. Spend a good deal of it's time in the 40's and 50's.

 

[Le Mans 88]

Checked out some more previews today and the car selection and modifications are outstanding. GT5 is still my prefared sim but if PD aren't going to release DLC I'll get stuck into Shift 2 to freshen things up.

It still amazes me that after so long in development and having observed changes in the industry PD didn't have a DLC plan ready to go the day GT5 was released.

 

[shirakawaa]

Checked out some more previews today and the car selection and modifications are outstanding. GT5 is still my prefared sim but if PD aren't going to release DLC I'll get stuck into Shift 2 to freshen things up.

It still amazes me that after so long in development and having observed changes in the industry PD didn't have a DLC plan ready to go the day GT5 was released.

What if "DLC plans" will simply be free "Spec updates" with added content (tracks and cars) like with GT5 Prologue? In other words, like patches, only bigger and better? Or do you want to actually pay?

 

[AmyUD06]

Here's some other stuff, PD could steal, and by doing so, improve enormously... (in no particular order)

Leaderboards - sure
Car sounds NOT made by Hoover - already there, sorry your exaggeration doesn't hold up
Car sounds with no audible loops and phasiness - never noticed loops
Car sounds that are EXCITING! - already there IMHO
Time to other cars displayed on HUD - Yes
Best lap times for all drivers displayed (at length) at the end of a race - Yes
Competitive AI (with retaliatory tendencies - hit them, they tend to hit back) - Yes but No to the parenthesis...this is highly unrealistic when compared to anything but NASCAR. Most race drivers are more professional that this.
FAR more real tracks than fantasy tracks - no, the PD-original tracks and by far more fun to drive and provide a more varied experience. I'm not against inclusion of more real world tracks, so long as it does not come at the price of excluding the PD-originals
Grid Girls! - absolutely not.
A touge track and an open drift track - point to point mountain roads, sure. An "open drift track" for figure skating? No thanks.
No grind - there isn't one now you ask me.
Marbles off the racing line - I don't even know what this means.
EVERY car has cockpit and helmet cam view - yes
Savable tuning setups per track - yes
Easy matchmaking online -yes
One make Spec racing online and off - yes
No B-Spec! - No. It does not detract from the A-Spec experience whatsoever, and some people (such as myself) enjoy it.
Livery editor with mirroring (in S2U) - no, unless it somehow only allows realistic racing schemes. We do not need Fast&Furious or offensive paint schemes in this game.
Paint system includes Gloss, Metallic, Candy, Pearlescent, Chrome, Matte and Flip (twin colour). And no one use paint chips! - I for one don't mind the paint chip system, but I'm sure I'm in the minority here. I also don't feel the need to change the color of a car every day.
Stock cars (base model) already tuned by a tame pro race driver - If you mean "more pre-upgraded models from real-world tuning shops," then yes. Otherwise no.

Every last one of these things would improve GT5 enormously. Some of them are, IMO, essential to a racing game.

Many of them are superfluous to a racing experience...not to mention the fact that the GT series has always been about driving; the racing is there to give you something to do.

Can PD swallow their pride and get onboard? Or will GT6 be Pokemon with cars again?

GT5 is only "Pokemon with cars" if you care about collecting every car. Many people don't.

 

[freelance]

Nice to see where this discussion is going. Glad I started it. I can see where I fit in with the rest of the GT fans when it comes to another racing game which is not Forza.

On topic, looks like just over half do not seem to like the way Shift 2 has its cockpit view implemented...

Would you prefer GT as it is, or somewhere in between the two?

 

[ghsnu]

The new Pagani would be nice. Iam not gona try to prounce it tho

lol

The Hyhugala
Hyugahala
Hylugah
Hugah
Hyuga

I give up...


But on topic, I've seen a bit of Shift 2 gameplay, and it looks quite epic. Might have to take my preorder off Driver San Francisco (speaking of driver, any OFFICIAL release date yet?).

 

[ucwepn]

I'm sure shift 2 will have some great visuals and visual effects like blooming/blurring/shaking but I don't think these would fit the GT style which is nice and simple, perhaps they could add these effects but I would also want the ability to turn them off.

 

[Spagetti69]

Telemetry would be nice, and a livery editor.

 

[schigara]

I am definitely looking forward to Shift2. I have loved GT since it's inception but I am a car guy first and this game looks pretty good.

I think the shaky helmet cam thing that looks to the apex is a good idea, in theory, but I think that is what makes the video look like the physics are weak. I want to see some replay video of other views.

 

[Yev]

Shift 2 looks amazing in trailers, GT5 looked absolutely perfect in trailers. Lesson is, don't judge what a game does good by trailers, because they don't show you the bad things. The first shift had a lot more things wrong with it than GT5, especially when it came to the sim aspects of it. Shift 2 has to show me you can use a wheel properly before I will consider spending money on it. The one thing it has going for it is it's tracklist, though.

THIS THIS THIS

In the trailers for GT5, they've never shown us ANY standards at all.
In trailers the damage was amazing.
In the trailers the windshield wipers actually wiped the rain.
Many more things, I can't remember but the point is - never judge a game by it's trailers.

The only good thing which will come with Shift2 is that it'll take the majority of the "not so hardcore" GT5 players.

And I'm not a GT5 hater.
I totally love GT5 the way it is, and I'll play it for many years to come because it's, in my oppinion - perfect.

 

[CarreraGT]

Bathurst. Although the version in the Shift trailers looks pretty ordinary so a more accurate recreation would be nice 👍

 

[mykem]

Here's some other stuff, PD could steal, and by doing so, improve enormously... (in no particular order)

Leaderboards
Car sounds NOT made by Hoover
Car sounds with no audible loops and phasiness
Car sounds that are EXCITING!
Time to other cars displayed on HUD
Best lap times for all drivers displayed (at length) at the end of a race
Competitive AI (with retaliatory tendencies - hit them, they tend to hit back)
FAR more real tracks than fantasy tracks
Grid Girls!
A touge track and an open drift track
No grind
Marbles off the racing line
EVERY car has cockpit and helmet cam view
Savable tuning setups per track
Easy matchmaking online
One make Spec racing online and off
No B-Spec!
Livery editor with mirroring (in S2U)
Paint system includes Gloss, Metallic, Candy, Pearlescent, Chrome, Matte and Flip (twin colour). And no one use paint chips!
Stock cars (base model) already tuned by a tame pro race driver

The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

Every last one of these things would improve GT5 enormously. Some of them are, IMO, essential to a racing game.

Can PD swallow their pride and get onboard? Or will GT6 be Pokemon with cars again?

And turn GT in NFS- no thanks! I don't understand the need to homogenize every racing game in existence- Forza needs to be more like GT and GT needs more of NFS which in turn needs to be more like iRacing.

Isn't the whole point of why each of these games exist is that we can choose one that fits us best.

 

[CarreraGT]

True, but most of the things mentioned in that post are fundamental for any racing game.

Realistic car sounds, split times, competitive AI, real tracks, marbles, cockpit view, tuning setups etc. should be standard issue.

 

[pgagoober]

I have never had good luck with look to apex... the problem is that one way or another suddenly your perspective is changed and without momentum to aid your senses it becomes very hard to maintain attitude correlation.

It becomes a game of do something, see what happens and respond when trying to figure out if you are turning strong enough and I find the result to be about equivalent to having mouse acceleration turned on when playing an FPS... the controls feel floaty.

The only time look to Apex works for me is in a multimonitor/wraparound setup where you can turn your head and the image stays aligned to your body so you know immediately how far your vision is skewed from center.

I am pretty sure last time you bumped someone from behind your engine wasn't cut for 8 seconds either or when you hit a barrier you it wasn't cut for 5 seconds.

Sometimes the effects are put into place to make up for the fact that the game can't really rattle your head like an impact would.

I think the guys making Shift said they wanted to include the "fear" of racing... while I am not sure the effect is exactly fear inducing, I think it does give a very tangible desire not to have an impact above and beyond the obvious fact that the impact slows you down.

In GT5 I can go 120mph into a wall outside a banked curve that drops me to 40mps instantly and immediately and realigning myself in the right directly... that doesn't seem right.

It brings the question, is precise driving really a good represntation of the real thing? I know that my first time karting I was blown away by what just doing 45mph 3 inches from the ground can do to your senses... Karting in GT5 at 75mph doesn't make me feel the same at all...

At 120mph you should be getting some tunnel vision and your even good cars are going to be getting some serious bouncing from wind bufeting and road bumps...

When I see videos like that I think that can't be what real drivers see, but then I look at something like the Frex Force Dynamics chair and all the coments from people who say "thats more like a spaceship, real cars don't tip like that!" and have to realize that sometimes doing what they really do isn't what translates into feeling like it really feels...

BTW I love how they include this line in the FAQ

Logitech G25 Racing Wheel
Logitech G27 Racing Wheel - full support for all buttons
Logitech Driving Force GT

As if to drive home what crap it is that GT5 is pretty much the only game that doesn't do this...

Excellent post. Absolutely nailed it.

I like the way SMS are going with this and the fact that they have been working closely with race drivers during development. In one of the interviews I watched they were very aware that much criticism was leveled at Shift for being too much Arcade and not enough Sim. They seem keen to address that so let's hope they get it right. Those who have been hands-on have come away impressed so I'm optimistic this will be worth getting. I have pre-ordered and I'm looking forward to taking it out for spin.

 

[Daverytimes]

What if "DLC plans" will simply be free "Spec updates" with added content (tracks and cars) like with GT5 Prologue? In other words, like patches, only bigger and better? Or do you want to actually pay?

You really don't want to pay for DLC do you? this is the fifth or sixth time i have seen you downplay the thought of payed DLC. You have to realize though that there are others out there (like me) who will happily pay for more cars and tracks (I don't care about events, seasonal events are enough for me) it doesn't automatically mean that we are licking PD's arse, it just means that we appreciate there work





DAVE

 

[DMC_S2000]

wow....

anyway Shift 2 is what GT5 should've been... The Real Racing Simulator....