One Make Races - Italy, Korea, UK & USA

[GTsail]

....Seattle Mini race.... W/regard to the AI mentioned: on street cars, are they equipped with S2 tyres by default? (or are they sliding out due to applying too much power?)

Also, are the AI affected by cold tyres? I get the impression they hardly are, but could be wrong. Also, wish PD had put up 'tyre warmers' as an option - driving all these short races on cold tyres is no fun (I usually race on N2's and they hardly warm up at all even if you drive the pants off your car - sigh. Doesn't seem very realistic, either, since these are supposed to be decent-quality sports tyres).

Generally, street cars are on S2 tires, however I did not check to see what tires the Mini's were running on in this particular series. I suspect that they are on S2 tires in this series based upon the speeds that they lap the tracks(I will check when I finish the endurance race that I am currently running). The AI are slow thru the corners because they brake too early, not because they spin their wheels from having too much power or torque.

The AI are definitely affected by cold tires. In many series, this is how A-spec nutters like me can win tough 200 point races. The AI is quite slow for the first lap, and this gives us a chance to get into the lead. I am sure that without this effect, I would have little chance of winning the NY race in my Mini. Once the AI's tires warm up they start running much faster laps.

GTsail290

 

[RaidoGT]

if you can't then please refrain from tainting the 200 Point thread with this nonsense and dribble.

Ha. Nonsense and dribble indeed.

If some races can't be won without cheat-the-machine tactics, then lower maximum points will have to do. For *honest* results, that is - *real* results, not fake ones.

Only clean laps count. Period.

 

[RaidoGT]

Generally, street cars are on S2 tires, however I did not check to see what tires the Mini's were running on in this particular series.

Ok. How do you check that, anyway? It'd be nice to see how many BHP the AI are running, too - it seems that only shows in arcade mode; but I wonder if it can be made visible in GT mode as well.

The AI are definitely affected by cold tires. (..) Once the AI's tires warm up they start running much faster laps.

I get your point, however, that would go for 'our' own car as well. I've run rather a lot of races using N2 tyres and since GT4 has a lot of short ones (2 - 5 laps) those often don't warm up until halfway past the race - or even later.
My impression is that the hard (Standard) tyres may not warm up enough in GT4 - I'm pretty sure if I drifted normal sports tyres full-bore through every corner on the first lap of, say, Hong Kong, they'd at least be a bit warm by the start of lap 2.

 

[Open Addict]

Ha. Nonsense and dribble indeed.

If some races can't be won without cheat-the-machine tactics, then lower maximum points will have to do. For *honest* results, that is - *real* results, not fake ones.

Only clean laps count. Period.

I see you are still trying to FORCE you opinions on to others. This is a game, and games can be played how the owner likes to. If other people play the game the same way, then they have something in common and can help each other out.

As you have said before, this is a game. And a game is not REAL.

However, I have seen many a time, in real life, Real drivers using the same tactics to win races.

 

[RaidoGT]

If other people play the game the same way, then they have something in common and can help each other out.

Um... Agree on that, but I'd still rather not get help on how to cheat the game into submission, thanks.

As you have said before, this is a game. And a game is not REAL.
However, I have seen many a time, in real life, Real drivers using the same tactics to win races.

True. I've also seen them been disqualified many a time. Heck, I've seen top racers been disqualified for a lot less than cutting a corner or banging an opponent into the guardrail. I've seen World Champions being DQ'd for doing so, even.

If it is just a game, but it depicts real cars (which it does, in this case) which race on pre-defined courses, how is cutting those corners *not* cheating the game? Is cheating the game considered acceptable?

If yes, ...why bother playing the game at all? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the point was to beat the game and not cheat it.

 

[Car-less]

Um... Agree on that, but I'd still rather not get help on how to cheat the game into submission, thanks.

Then I'd suggest you vacate the "200pt A-Spec Races" sub forum as that appears to be it's main purpose.

If it is just a game, but it depicts real cars (which it does, in this case) which race on pre-defined courses, how is cutting those corners *not* cheating the game? Is cheating the game considered acceptable?

If yes, ...why bother playing the game at all? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the point was to beat the game and not cheat it.

I thought the point of this game (and all other games) was to entertain the player in whatever manner they see fit!

Those in this sub-forum see fit to cheat the game to achieve their goal of maximum possible points, and that's why they are here, and why they continue to play the game beyond golding all license tests (80 Gold club) and winning all races (100% club).

Many of the regulars in here have already beaten the game (relatively) cleanly, and now they are looking for a new challenge and playing the game a different way. Just because this different way is not the same as your own way of playing does not make it wrong, and does not make the results count any less.

Crashing your way around Hong Kong in a Hyundai Coupe for maximum points counts towards the goal of 100,000 or more points in the same way as overpowering your way through the Corvette festival with a C5R counts towards the goal of clean and easy wins.

 

[GTsail]

Ok. How do you check that, anyway? It'd be nice to see how many BHP the AI are running, too - it seems that only shows in arcade mode; but I wonder if it can be made visible in GT mode as well...

I get your point, however, that would go for 'our' own car as well. I've run rather a lot of races using N2 tyres and since GT4 has a lot of short ones (2 - 5 laps) those often don't warm up until halfway past the race - or even later.
My impression is that the hard (Standard) tyres may not warm up enough in GT4 - I'm pretty sure if I drifted normal sports tyres full-bore through every corner on the first lap of, say, Hong Kong, they'd at least be a bit warm by the start of lap 2.

To see what tires the AI are on, click on the "Preview" icon instead of entering the race. I checked this for the Mini race, and the AI competition is on S/M tires (sports medium).

And yes, "our" own car's tires warm up over the first two laps, so we run slower laps, but since we are better drivers than the AI, we can use this to our advantage over the other cars during this period. On endurance races this "warm-up" period is repeated (after each pit stop) , so we get to use this advantage to our benefit over and over again.

Side note: I have found that B-spec Bob will not use this warm up period to his advantage. Bob is essentially another AI car, and his tires warm up at the same speed as the other AI cars. (I know, I know, some of you are such A-spec purists that you don't let B-spec Bob anywhere near your cars! Bob would have to steal the car keys or use another more "subtle" tatic like those employed by Nicholas Cage and Angelina Jolie in the movie "Gone in 60 seconds". Sorry to bring Bob up. No comments are necessary).

GTsail290

 

[Austin343]

Uh, what the bleep? This chap is corner-cutting all the way <barf>. Hence, instant DQ.

It seems I have to defend myself here.

I consider myself a very clean driver, and when I race AI cars, I truly make every effort to win the race in the cleanest possible manner. This can mean that I spend hours on just one race, restarting if I slightly tap a wall or an AI car, and will only be satisfied when I have a contact-free race with no corner cutting. I do make exceptions for contacts caused by AI cars doing their characteristic barging into the side of you on straights when you clearly are holding the position, because that wouldn't happen in real life. Also, you can see in my signature that I've done every mission and license test 100% cleanly, even including those instances where the game allows you to cut a corner or tap a wall or AI car without penalty or failing.

Unfortunately, many races require dirty driving to win for the maximum point total. The race whose replay of mine is (re)posted above is such a race, although if you watch the video on Youtube rather than in embedded form, you will see that I acknowledge in my description that this was a very sloppy run and could be much neater and cleaner. My only aim at the time, though, was to win the race for 200 points; also, back then, I was much less concerned with clean driving in general.

 

[Dotini]

I'm extremely pleased to be able to report a 200 A-spec win at the Suzuka round of the Saleen race events. This took several hours of concentrated effort to accomplish, and was definitely one of the most difficult contests I've experienced in GT4. MOV was 1.631 seconds with one unit of NOS to spare.

I'm very grateful to nualum for his artful setup, and to Austin343 for his instructive video, without which I would have been totally unable to win this event. Thanks, guys!

nualum's setup is no quicker over a lap than some other available setups, but it has the unique advantage of getting one into the lead immediately after the first corner due to vastly superior acceleration. I revised his brake settings to 5/13, and aids to 2/8/5.

In this event, I was obliged to use a manual tranny, breaking with one of my usual rules, but I felt it was needed to be competitive.

 

[GTsail]

I'm extremely pleased to be able to report a 200 A-spec win at the Suzuka round of the Saleen race events. This took several hours of concentrated effort to accomplish, and was definitely one of the most difficult contests I've experienced in GT4. MOV was 1.631 seconds with one unit of NOS to spare.

I'm very grateful to nualum for his artful setup, and to Austin343 for his instructive video, without which I would have been totally unable to win this event. Thanks, guys!

nualum's setup is no quicker over a lap than some other available setups, but it has the unique advantage of getting one into the lead immediately after the first corner due to vastly superior acceleration. I revised his brake settings to 5/13, and aids to 2/8/5.

In this event, I was obliged to use a manual tranny, breaking with one of my usual rules, but I felt it was needed to be competitive.

Congratulations Dotini!

Great Work!

I am extremely jealous. I have only been able to win at Suzuka for 174 points (the other Saleen races are done for 200).

Open Addict also recommended Nualum's setting, but I have not gone back and tried them yet. I am still recouperating from my 1000 Mile ordeal at Nurburgring.

GTsail290

 

[Dotini]

GTsail290, please don't be jealous of me, a small, aging, balding, overweight white male with precious few credentials at this game of ours. Rather, go back and take revenge on the AI Saleens at Suzuka. Perhaps soon we will all be laughing at how childishly simple it was. I will re-post nualum's (slightly modified) setup and explain how to get into an immediate lead.

Saleen S7 with 504 hp on Parts Change/Settings screen, N2/N3 tires
Nitrous @ 50
Brakes: 5/13
Springs: 15.2/14.5
Ride height: 65/65
Bound: 5/5
Rebound: 6/6
Camber: 3.0/1.7
Toe: -2/-4
Stabilizers: 5/5
Tranny trick with final 4.800
Aids: 2/8/5
LSD: 5/50/5
Ballast: 196@+50 (to the rear)

First, do enough lapping so that you can break 2:20 without NOS and with a manual gearshift. In the race, I used the 1st grid after console reset.

At the start, go through 1st and 2nd gears normally, then use full nitrous in 3rd and 4th. This will put you inside the 3rd place Saleen as you head into the "1st and 2nd curve" on AMG's track map. Downshift to 2nd and use the Saleen to your left as your rolling wallride. As you emerge from the curves in a clear 3rd, again key the nitrous and accelerate through 3rd and 4th on the grass, by-passing the 1st "S" curve. Bound at full chat back onto the asphalt of the next "S" curve, immediately brake hard and downshift to 3rd. Be sure you are able to line up to get over the inside curb of the ensuing left hand "S" curve. If done correctly, you will have a huge lead. If not, restart the race and try it again.

Now you have the upper hand, and it's only a matter of using the considerable width of the Saleen's shapely rump to block your attackers. Hip-check them into sand when you get the opportunity, and husband the nitrous, using it to get back ahead if they should pass. If one or more should get by, don't worry; the final chicane is your ace in the hole.

 

[Dotini]

This morning I won the Saleen event at Infineon for 200 A-spec. Here's my bespoke setup, which I hope someone might find useful: http://www.gtvault.com/gt4/setup-view/s_sid::7981/S7-Dotini2001/

That makes 4 out of 5 for me, but I'm still having an awful time at SSR5. Is there someone out there who could help me with setup or driving tips, please?

thanks,
Dotini

 

[Austin343]

Wallriding is the answer. The first corner is perfect for that, and in a few fast corners, you can drive full-throttle and bang off the wall on the exit, if I recall correctly. That should make it straightforward enough; I won on my first try, and I accidentally left N1s on the rear!

 

[Open Addict]

Just what Austin said, The big first corner is a huge help on this one.

 

[Dotini]

Gosh, you boys are really right about those wallrides at SSR5! Previously, I had only been using the one at the first turn. So after receiving your advice, I first re-tuned my car to give the best possible combination of both controlling wheelspin plus controlling understeer, then went to do some exploratory lapping. I found 4 new wallrides plus a crashturn which gave me 1:30 laptimes without nitrous. I knew then that since the AI never go quicker than mid '32's, that I had them, easy.

In the event, I took the lead by half way 'round the first lap, and won going away by over 10 seconds. Nitrous was superfluous after getting the lead, in fact there's seems little doubt that the race can now be won without it.

thanks again!
Dotini

http://www.gtvault.com/gt4/setup-view/s_sid::7981/S7-Dotini2001/

 

[RaidoGT]

I found 4 new wallrides plus a crashturn which gave me 1:30 laptimes

I found twelve, and got down to 0:58 in Notepad! Yay for me!


Like I said boys, only clean laps count.


What's the most points anyone ever got when doing this one *properly*, anyway? (In the 'Stock 200' thread there are max results without 200 having been achieved, therefore someone may have found out already.)

 

[Der Alta]

Like I said boys, only clean laps count.

If you'll kindly read the Posted Rules for this thread and discussion, you'll see that what has been posted, is within the realm of the discussion.

Talking down to someone else when they are within the regulations and written rules of the discussion is the term "Playing the man, not the ball." A tactic that is will not tolerated at GTPlanet.net.

Please change your course of action.

 

[GTsail]

Gosh, you boys are really right about those wallrides at SSR5! Previously, I had only been using the one at the first turn. So after receiving your advice, I first re-tuned my car to give the best possible combination of both controlling wheelspin plus controlling understeer, then went to do some exploratory lapping. I found 4 new wallrides plus a crashturn which gave me 1:30 laptimes without nitrous. I knew then that since the AI never go quicker than mid '32's, that I had them, easy.

In the event, I took the lead by half way 'round the first lap, and won going away by over 10 seconds. Nitrous was superfluous after getting the lead, in fact there's seems little doubt that the race can now be won without it.

thanks again!
Dotini

http://www.gtvault.com/gt4/setup-view/s_sid::7981/S7-Dotini2001/

Good Work Dotini - I for one acknowledge the effort required to win these Saleen races.👍

......

I found twelve, and got down to 0:58 in Notepad! Yay for me!...

Like I said boys, only clean laps count.

What's the most points anyone ever got when doing this one *properly*, anyway? (In the 'Stock 200' thread there are max results without 200 having been achieved, therefore someone may have found out already.)

RaidoGT - If you bothered to look in the "Stock" thread, you would see that Open Addict has obtained 115 A-spec points in a stock Saleen (nice job OA). Please do not litter this 200 point thread with your repetitive comments. Please post them in the "General Discussion" thread where they belong (see AMG's post to you).

GTsail290

 

[Dotini]

Thanks a lot for that thumb's up, GTsail290. That means a lot to me.

By the way, I'm really enjoying your setup in the VW GTi Cup right now. It's great!

I really think these forums work best when in the mutual assistance mode. That's why I'm here. It's probably better for us humans to help each other overcoming artificial intelligence than it is to preen and fight amongst ourselves.

 

[RaidoGT]

You know, I agree.


That's why I'd like to report a race win in 1.25 minutes at Hong Kong with 25 newly-found places to wallride, 2 places to cut the corners, and even 1 newfound shortcut driving right through one of the buildings (there's a little-known tunnel there, where there's also a real good little noodle shop. Worth a try, they're delicous!).






What?



*WHAT* now? Why are you all giving that skeptical look in my direction?

It's all true! I did it and kept the replay, too! Anyone who doesn't believe me is welcome to drop by for coffee and having a look. Really!




(NB. For the humour-impaired... Do I *really* have to explain this? And ok GTSail290, I'll hush up now, won't repeat this again ad nauseam, that's boring, agreed.)

 

[shepzki]

Very happy now, done all the Saleen races for 200 points. Was going to post the replays but forgot to save the infineon replay as it was the last race I did for 200 points, and I was a bit over excited. Will post other 4 replays though later today maybe when I have recorded them.

Can't stop smiling.

 

[Open Addict]

Congrats nemesis01, good to hear you are still trying. What is you points total now?
and what have you left to do?

 

[Austin343]

Here's my clean win with the Saleen at Infineon. I also have a much-improved run at Suzuka if anyone is interested.

 

[shepzki]

Congrats nemesis01, good to hear you are still trying. What is you points total now?
and what have you left to do?

Am @ 82436 A-Spec points with 71.9% completion, have only dropped points on the World Classic Car Series race @ the Nurburgring, only got 136 but only tried once. Still not done the family cup, no endurance races, 1000 miles, FGT and about half of the manafacturer races so quite a lot of points left to be won.👍

Am recording my replays now for the Saleen event so will post them when processed and uploaded.

Edit - And here they are, far from clean races but that's not important to me in these situations where the odds are stacked against you, it's most important to just get the 200 points any way you can.

Can watch the videos through my channel http://www.youtube.com/user/nem3sis01977

 

[AMG.]

Here's my clean win with the Saleen at Infineon. I also have a much-improved run at Suzuka if anyone is interested.

Holy Smokes Austin, you managed than in 3 laps rather than 4, deep respect. Ive secretly started GT4 again approx 2 weeks ago and been redoing missions and some of the missing point races but so far no luck with the latter. I did manage to win 2 more golds in licences though, not having played GT4 in over a year and not played gt5p since Jan '09. Now I need to watch Nemesis' videos and yes Id like to see your Suzuka run too.

AMG.

 

[shepzki]

I'm not happy with my run at SSR5, was very messy and I just couldn't get braking points right, only 2 good points came from watching it back:

1. I still got 200 points
2. Proves it can be done by any old idiot with a DS2 and too much free time.

 

[Open Addict]

Holy Smokes Austin, you managed than in 3 laps rather than 4, deep respect. Ive secretly started GT4 again approx 2 weeks ago and been redoing missions and some of the missing point races but so far no luck with the latter. I did manage to win 2 more golds in licences though, not having played GT4 in over a year and not played gt5p since Jan '09. Now I need to watch Nemesis' videos and yes Id like to see your Suzuka run too.

AMG.

Good to see you back in the GT4 saddle. I will forward my winning luck to you.

I'm not happy with my run at SSR5, was very messy and I just couldn't get braking points right, only 2 good points came from watching it back:

1. I still got 200 points
2. Proves it can be done by any old idiot with a DS2 and too much free time.

I am far from a master at GT4, and was able to get 80 golds and 'max points', with using the DS2 with buttons and keypad. If I can do it, most others should be able to.

Keep up the chase, you will get there 👍

 

[imtheleprechaun]

The only post I could find with details on using the Elise Type 72 for the Elise Trophy suggested N1 tires. It looked pretty doubtful I could win on those wretched things, so I found the highest points-yielding field in the first 10 after a reset, the first without another Type 72. Then I spent the second run through the series nudging up the ballast every race and the third run through actually earning the full points. Maybe this can save someone else that third go-round:

Lotus Elise Trophy - 5 race championship
Car: Elise Type 72
Lineup: NTSC/US #5:
A-Spec Points: 1000
Opponents:
111S
Sport 190
111R
Motorsport Elise
Elise '00

Setup: N3, 122HP (setup screen) w/no oil, 137+kg, NOS. Full suspension/drivetrain/brake upgrades. I used this setup for suspension settings, the "tranny trick" with final drive @ 4.500 for all races and NOS set at 90.

Qualifying was key for me, with the warm up lap to learn roughly what speed I can do through most corners and how late is too late to brake, the pole lap then makes good practice for a peppier lap and the race becomes a reasonably comfortable task.

 

[Austin343]

I'm sorry for taking so long, AMG. Here's my improved run in the Saleen at Suzuka.



Although I get very close to the fifth place car a couple of times, I made no AI contact and kept two wheels on the track except for cutting the chicane. I think that with a cooperative lineup and a great setup, it's theoretically possible to do this race completely cleanly, as well, but that's beyond my grasp.

 

[AMG.]

That was a very impressive race to watch. Thank you for that. Im pretty sure you'll yoin the ranks of the Max-ers soon. I've been retrying the Copens and Saleens but so far no joy. I'm not sure if I have it in me to finish there races for max. Same aplies for a couple of FGT races.

AMG.