ORCA Silvia Spec Cup - SEASON COMPLETE, CARRACERPTP SUPREME ORCA CHAMP

[BrandonW77]

OK, after a bit of "actual" testing I would brake it down like:
+ You can't use the "mid corner" fix anymore *.
+ The RWD cars are easier to drive.
+ Corner exit feels better.
- * But... you can still throw the car around like an crazy man and still make time.
- Slides are easy to catch, drifting is to easy now (base on what I "think"). The rear tires have to much grip past the limit.
- The rear tires don't feel right to me, to much or not enough grip in the wrong places at lower speeds.
- Much harder to spin a car.

From what I'm reading it seems that going down one tire compound makes the car feel more like what we're used to. So the Silvia would be on SM instead of SS. This might be a good thing. The little bit of testing I've done was with FR cars on CS tires and they just felt..........right. It was probably the most natural feeling I've had on the game so far and was quite enjoyable.

Very good:tup:👍

I had a feeling they might be, that's good news. I could see them being a little more forgiving with these new changes.


I'm going to try to be online tonight to do some testing but it probably won't be until after 8pm EST. I'll post here when I know for sure.

 

[carracerptp]

From what I'm reading it seems that going down one tire compound makes the car feel more like what we're used to. So the Silvia would be on SM instead of SS. This might be a good thing. The little bit of testing I've done was with FR cars on CS tires and they just felt..........right. It was probably the most natural feeling I've had on the game so far and was quite enjoyable.

I have only tested the SH to SS tires, I'll see if I can get on later tonight.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I haven't driven a kart Brandon, probably since the last time we fooled around with them in the ORCA Lounge months ago so it's tough for me to compare and my driving technique is much different from back then and I think that's helping me to control the Karts a bit better. But I did find when I lost control on the track (as opposed to jumping a curb or getting grass on the tires) it was very hard to spin on a flat track. I had been practicing with tuned 500PP cars on SS tires with no ABS at Autumn Ring Reverse, and once I got used to the Kart I was running the same 1:22's in the 125SP. In the uphill cambered right hander before the hairpin to the front straight on the mini-track, I do recall the karts being very sensitive through there, but I had no trouble in that corner at all. A touch of throttle to keep the back end from coming around was all it took. That worked before too, but you still had to get it just right to take it really fast, for me anyway, but now it feels like the range of "just right" is quite a bit bigger.

One thing that seems really changed is the GT500 cars, the only race cars I've driven since the update. I ended up in a Pure Lounge last night just testing, and took my HSV out for the first time to tune it a bit at Monza. I literally had to check twice that I had RH tires on and not RS, it was that glued to the track. Tuned out a touch of understeer with some negative rear toe, which also seemed to work wonders with a lot of other tuned cars in my garage.

If they'd just put a shifter on the stupid kart they'd really have something!! PD is so frustrating!!!

 

[BrandonW77]

I literally had to check twice that I had RH tires on and not RS, it was that glued to the track.

See, this is where I run into conflict with popular opinion. To me, as a race director, this is a very good thing. I know people get a kick out of taming a wild car and fighting it as it slides all over the track, and I get that. There's a sense of accomplishment and superiority when you can handle a loose beast and also be fast. But......a track full of loose cars does not usually make for clean racing. When I go two-wide into a corner with someone I don't want to worry about whether or not he's going to be able to hang on to the car. This also leads to a greater gap between the front of the field and the rear of the field as the guys in the back struggle to keep the car pointing the right direction. I also think that's why we regularly lose the back markers as the seasons progress. So, maybe this could end up being a good change for the game if it makes things a little more fun for the guys in the back.

If they'd just put a shifter on the stupid kart they'd really have something!! PD is so frustrating!!!

I agree!! It became very evident at Motegi, you have to gear it so high for the long straights that acceleration from low speeds was painfully sloooooow.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Hmm. Keeping your foot out of the poor thing's throat (otherwise known as "lifting") is not an option?

 

[BrandonW77]

Hmm. Keeping your foot out of the poor thing's throat (otherwise known as "lifting") is not an option?

What do you mean?

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Doing this from my phone so please bear with me and any possible edits.

To be a bit more precise. If you're hitting the rev limiter in any vehicle you've basically 2 options.

1. Extend the gearing so the available power can't move the car fast enough to hit the limiter. (The usually chosen method as this allows for top speeds to be attained, albeit while sacrificing how quickly you get to top speed.)

2. Let up on the gas and keep the revs just below the limiter. When resistance is increased you can increase throttle to maintain, and in some cases, increase speed during the hated increase in resistance.

I recently had a lesson in using method #2 when I attended the andretti racing experience when it stopped near my hometown. The car I was allowed to drive was reportedly rev limited to 5k rpm. I spent my first few laps finding the limiter on the straights and learned, if you didn't bounce it hard in the straights, you could in fact, go faster in the turns.

This was in a car that I'm sure would do close to 200mph around the track we were at. Maybe not in my hands, but since they reported my lap speed at a hair over 162mph and I definitely feel I could've gone much faster, given revs and track, but certainly under a professional driver's guidance it would get close to that .

The basic gist of this is, you can tickle that rev limiter and it'll help you go faster, but if you punch it, it'll just slip the blow and frown, while you go slower.

So, insofar as the carts go, if you decide you cannot stand the slow acceleration caused by your desire to hold it to the mat on straights, without punching the "chip" in the face, your only option is to reset your gearing to an acceptable acceleration rate and keep your foot out of the poor thing's throat.

It would be my suggestion, that if the spec flavor is to be maintained and carts are used, default gearing also be used, regardless of track. Although inversely intuitive, throttle control is enforced.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Doing this from my phone so please bear with me and any possible edits.

To be a bit more precise. If you're hitting the rev limiter in any vehicle you've basically 2 options.

1. Extend the gearing so the available power can't move the car fast enough to hit the limiter. (The usually chosen method as this allows for top speeds to be attained, albeit while sacrificing how quickly you get to top speed.)

2. Let up on the gas and keep the revs just below the limiter. When resistance is increased you can increase throttle to maintain, and in some cases, increase speed during the hated increase in resistance.

I recently had a lesson in using method #2 when I attended the andretti racing experience when it stopped near my hometown. The car I was allowed to drive was reportedly rev limited to 5k rpm. I spent my first few laps finding the limiter on the straights and learned, if you didn't bounce it hard in the straights, you could in fact, go faster in the turns.

This was in a car that I'm sure would do close to 200mph around the track we were at. Maybe not in my hands, but since they reported my lap speed at a hair over 162mph and I definitely feel I could've gone much faster, given revs and track, but certainly under a professional driver's guidance it would get close to that .

The basic gist of this is, you can tickle that rev limiter and it'll help you go faster, but if you punch it, it'll just slip the blow and frown, while you go slower.

So, insofar as the carts go, if you decide you cannot stand the slow acceleration caused by your desire to hold it to the mat on straights, without punching the "chip" in the face, your only option is to reset your gearing to an acceptable acceleration rate and keep your foot out of the poor thing's throat.

It would be my suggestion, that if the spec flavor is to be maintained and carts are used, default gearing also be used, regardless of track. Although inversely intuitive, throttle control is enforced.

Is this in response to wanting shifter karts and Brandon mentioned the gearing at Motegi? ...lol. The karts blow is what I should have said. I've raced karts in real life, and they don't accelerate like a riding mower up to a certain powerband and take off, they are fairly peppy throughout their rev range. I raced direct drive two stroke karts for a couple of years, no clutch and no transmission, just two sprockets and a chain and even pulling out of the tighest of hairpins it still took off like a gun even though the motor revved to 17,500 rpm.

Adding a 5 or 6 speed to these karts should be fairly easy for PD to do, I would think just some lines of code or copy and paste from somewhere else (I'm not a tech guy so if that's oversimplistic don't shoot me) As they are the karts are fine when you are in the powerband but out of it they just suck and are nowhere close to realistic.

 

[BrandonW77]

Doing this from my phone so please bear with me and any possible edits.

To be a bit more precise. If you're hitting the rev limiter in any vehicle you've basically 2 options.

1. Extend the gearing so the available power can't move the car fast enough to hit the limiter. (The usually chosen method as this allows for top speeds to be attained, albeit while sacrificing how quickly you get to top speed.)

2. Let up on the gas and keep the revs just below the limiter. When resistance is increased you can increase throttle to maintain, and in some cases, increase speed during the hated increase in resistance.

I recently had a lesson in using method #2 when I attended the andretti racing experience when it stopped near my hometown. The car I was allowed to drive was reportedly rev limited to 5k rpm. I spent my first few laps finding the limiter on the straights and learned, if you didn't bounce it hard in the straights, you could in fact, go faster in the turns.

This was in a car that I'm sure would do close to 200mph around the track we were at. Maybe not in my hands, but since they reported my lap speed at a hair over 162mph and I definitely feel I could've gone much faster, given revs and track, but certainly under a professional driver's guidance it would get close to that .

The basic gist of this is, you can tickle that rev limiter and it'll help you go faster, but if you punch it, it'll just slip the blow and frown, while you go slower.

So, insofar as the carts go, if you decide you cannot stand the slow acceleration caused by your desire to hold it to the mat on straights, without punching the "chip" in the face, your only option is to reset your gearing to an acceptable acceleration rate and keep your foot out of the poor thing's throat.

It would be my suggestion, that if the spec flavor is to be maintained and carts are used, default gearing also be used, regardless of track. Although inversely intuitive, throttle control is enforced.

That's pretty much the advice I gave for running the Silvia's at la Sarthe.......and I basically got called an idiot.

The straights at Motegi were long enough that we were hitting max speed with the stock gearing and couldn't pass anybody, like we hit an invisible wall. So we had to tinker with the transmission to remedy it. Otherwise, your analysis is accurate. We could stick with the stock settings but I don't think there'd be much overtaking.

I kinda like the idea of using Jr. Karts on short tracks, regular karts on medium tracks and the 125's at longer tracks. 👍

 

[LancerEvo7]

Having been in a kart series where you weren't allowed to change the gears, please do not do that. It's terrible for overtaking (and boring to drive, in the one race I did in that series, we did AR-Mini Reverse flat out, didn't even have to lift for the hairpin).

 

[Dragonwhisky]

I haven't tested this in game but am curious about it nonetheless.

Take any cart to the Motegi oval, hold it to the mat and record the lap times. Don't let up ever. 5 laps oughta be enough.

Run another 5, but this set try to stay just below the limiter at all times. Compare lap times.

Dunno if I'll have time to run this test this weekend but I'll put it on one burner or another.

 

[BrandonW77]

Adding a 5 or 6 speed to these karts should be fairly easy for PD to do, I would think just some lines of code or copy and paste from somewhere else (I'm not a tech guy so if that's oversimplistic don't shoot me) As they are the karts are fine when you are in the powerband but out of it they just suck and are nowhere close to realistic.

I think just even a high gear and a low gear would be good. I'm no tech expert but I do believe it would be much more complicated than that, if for not other reason because I think GT5 is quite over complicated in how it does things. And they'd probably want to go model it after real karts instead of just tossing in some random gearbox.

Your analysis of the real life karts is different from what I've heard about our local kart track (the one I posted pics/videos of in this thread a few weeks ago). The guy I go Auto X'ing with said he did their rental karts a couple weeks ago and his biggest thing was that they were terribly slow to get up to speed. He said he spun a couple times and it would take him well over a full lap (on a nearly mile long track) to get it back up to speed. And these are professional racing karts, not the karts you see at putt-putt. So his description sounded very much like the karting experience in GT5. Must be a different class of karts or something.

 

[Johnnypenso]

2, 3, 4 gears, anything would do to help keep it in the crappy powerband they gave the kart. Or better yet, just fix the powerband..lol.

This is one of the classes I raced in...do these karts look like they take a lap to get up to speed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s&feature=related

When I first started I raced 4 stroke karts and they had quite a bit less power and did take quite some time to get up to speed. But the two stroke karts went like stink with purpose built racing motors. What you're talking about are rental karts, probably with 5 or 6 hp motors and a governor on them...can't even compare the two.

Also happens to be everyone's favourite F1 driver, Lewis Hamilton, going from last to first:idea: That race starts for real around 2:40...

Now if we had some real shifter karts it would be more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb-AAhgCI4w&feature=related <<< Kart vs. Ferrari

 

[dsgerbc]

Just FYI, there is no hard rev-limiter, or at least I didn't hit one when we tried karts on Motegi. My cart was geared probably from something like Autumn Ring mini, so it took off pretty quick. Then it just topped out and stayed at a constant speed. No rev-limiter like the one in Silvia. It's like a soft redline.

So lifting is pointless.

 

[BrandonW77]

2, 3, 4 gears, anything would do to help keep it in the crappy powerband they gave the kart. Or better yet, just fix the powerband..lol.

This is one of the classes I raced in...do these karts look like they take a lap to get up to speed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDgpS4kx88s&feature=related

When I first started I raced 4 stroke karts and they had quite a bit less power and did take quite some time to get up to speed. But the two stroke karts went like stink with purpose built racing motors. What you're talking about are rental karts, probably with 5 or 6 hp motors and a governor on them...can't even compare the two.

Also happens to be everyone's favourite F1 driver, Lewis Hamilton, going from last to first:idea: That race starts for real around 2:40...

Now if we had some real shifter karts it would be more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb-AAhgCI4w&feature=related <<< Kart vs. Ferrari

I figured there was probably some difference in the karts. So basically what you're saying is that GT5 gives us rental karts. Actually, that seems about right, given their track record. The Real Rental Simulator.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I figured there was probably some difference in the karts. So basically what you're saying is that GT5 gives us rental karts. Actually, that seems about right, given their track record. The Real Rental Simulator.

No, what your friend drove is a rental kart...lol. Trust me, they are a total slug compared to GT5 karts. GT5 karts aren't too bad in terms of handling and the motor is fine when it gets into it's powerband but the powerband is so narrow and below it almost doesn't exist. The 100cc and 125cc karts they used in the game are modelled after real karts and they accelerate hard throughout their rev range. I remember when my brother took my kart out for the first time after recovering from an injury and his head snapping back for a lap or two until he got used to the acceleration. The have a powerband just like every other motor but it's plenty wide enough to handle tight hairpins and long straights with one gear without bogging down or sounding like a flooded chainsaw motor

 

[BrandonW77]

I'm hopping into the lounge for a little while to mess about with some cars. Feel free to join.

EDIT: gone

 

[Naptown25rs]

Here you go, B... I know you want one!

 

[BrandonW77]

Hehehe. I saw that yesterday on Facebook. And yeah, I kinda want one.

 

[BrandonW77]

Have at it boys!!

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Should have left his helmet on.

 

[Naptown25rs]

HA! Idiots... NASCAR = WWE on wheels...

 

[BrandonW77]

HA! Idiots... NASCAR = WWE on wheels...

Absolutely. They not only allow this kind of behavior, they stop just short of encouraging it. Then they opted not to call a caution on the last lap and let all the cars race right through a strip of fluid in turn 4, most of them crashed.

 

[LancerEvo7]

I am honestly amazed no one was killed. I didn't even notice those initial hits on the wall a few of those cars took until I watched it again a few minutes ago. NASCAR's a joke anymore.

 

[carracerptp]

Absolutely. They not only allow this kind of behavior, they stop just short of encouraging it. Then they opted not to call a caution on the last lap and let all the cars race right through a strip of fluid in turn 4, most of them crashed.

That was just sad, I saw the oil on the track as they came around the corner and was amazed the leader still held on.
In my view, the last 3 laps should be removed from the race result.

 

[BrandonW77]

That was just sad, I saw the oil on the track as they came around the corner and was amazed the leader still held on.
In my view, the last 3 laps should be removed from the race result.

It's almost as negligent as when IndyCar waved the green flag at an oval race when the track was wet, leading to a big wreck. They did void the laps and reverted back to previous lap ranking for the final results, but not before we got this memorable moment.

 

[Naptown25rs]

I particularly enjoyed Keselowski's post race interview... Made Raikkonen and Vettel's profanity sound like school girls...

 

[BrandonW77]

I particularly enjoyed Keselowski's post race interview... Made Raikkonen and Vettel's profanity sound like school girls...

Yeah, I was a bit shocked at that considering it was supposed to be on "official" media interview. He was swearing like it was Friday night at the Sailor's Bar. 🤬


Well, I attempted to do a couple kart races yesterday with a group, it didn't go well and it reminded me how critical track selection is for the karts. It was two races, the first was at Rome Reverse and the second was Deep Forest Reverse. Deep Forest was so damn bumpy I thought my wheel was going to shake off of its mount. Coming out of the double-right-hander at the bottom of the hill it was virtually impossible to keep the kart straight and random spins would happen about every other lap during my practice. Not fun.

I didn't think Rome Reverse would be that bad, but there was one area that made it useless. I think it was turn 5 (the left hand kink that goes between the guard rails) that had a nasty surprise waiting for the kart. If you went left or right you were ok but if you went anywhere near the middle it was like there was a ramp that made you do a giant wheelie, often resulting in a crash. Of course of the first lap of the race I was squeezed right into that area, did a wheelie which resulted in a horrific crash and ended my race. I didn't even attempt the race at Deep Forest as that would have likely been a repeat and a waste of time.

I think the karts handle bumps and rough surfaces better than they used too but a good race can still be ruined by the track itself. I am slightly leaning towards doing a short karting series but the tracks will have to be thoroughly tested to find a good selection as I would not attempt a serious race under the above conditions.

 

[Naptown25rs]

Yeah, I've always thought Deep Forest was useless in a kart, way too many bumps... Trial Mountain is pretty much the same.

I've done some races at Rome (both directions) and I don't remember it being that bad... It's at least tolerable.

 

[BrandonW77]

Yeah, I've always thought Deep Forest was useless in a kart, way too many bumps... Trial Mountain is pretty much the same.

I've done some races at Rome (both directions) and I don't remember it being that bad... It's at least tolerable.

One of the tracks for next week is Trial Mountain.

The majority of Rome Reverse was fine but there was some anomaly in that kink that literally catapulted the kart into the air. That's a deal breaker for me. 👎