As for b), I've not had to retune any of my cars since the patch, but I've yet to run more than a 15 minute race. I don't think complete retunes are needed.
This is what they want for a tire model but they still have to fix the camber issue.
I've seen all of this on the official forums and it's about as clear as mud. I really don't think they know they messed up. Those post talk about different heat with under inflated tires. Is every tire being treated as under inflated now? Pressures barley make a difference in temperature and camber is even more broke.little more info from Casey the tire guy
Originally Posted by Casey Ringley
Last but not least, patch 6 includes some recalibration of tire heating models. Some folks in a G40 league here found an issue where a slight increase in pressure could cause an extreme amount of overheating in the tires. We tracked it down to a fix in a change in how the carcass generates heat at low inflation pressure, but this sent us down a rabbit hole of checking that no cars had completely broken tires with the change. Things are much better with the fix in place. Temperature balance front to rear looks more correct on most cars and it removes something of an exploit that was possible in car setup. You’ll need to take more care with setting tire pressures now and can expect a larger response from those changes.
With the fix, tires heat faster, more predictably, and will really punish you for poor driving and setup in a way they didn't before. A lot of tires could move to more standardized values without needing lots of extra calibration just to get the right front to rear temperature balance. Before, if rear tires started at a lower pressure, they could run up against a limit near ideal pressure and lose heat; ending up cooler than the front even if the handling balance was strongly biased to oversteer. Now they get nice, consistent heating and show a reasonably higher carcass temp than non-driven fronts, which then filters through to hotter tread. Generally the temps are feeling more representative of handling balance now. Cool stuff.
While in there recalibrating the heat, I merged in some ideas we've been playing with for pCARS 2. Biggest of those is that most slick tires (those based on our SLICK_GT3 template) now have a larger temperature range for the rubber of 0-200°C. This fits in with stuff we've learned from rallycross where tires under extreme stress creep up to 180C or more. This has a pretty cool result of accentuating the camber effects of a tire so the inside edge reads significantly hotter as it should. Implies that our the old cap around 150-165C was limiting heat gain on the inside edge but not the outside. Also does a very good job at punishing the driver for abusive technique.
Some tire sets also had slight wear rate recalibration to fit with changes brought on by the new heat model. Anything that did change stayed at the same starting grip as before, but some will wear faster now and with a stronger grip loss effect. Prototype work on the upcoming V8 Supercar helped to hone in the right reference point for grip loss on a heavily worn tire. Generally the cost is about 2s over a 2min lap at the end of a run. Go longer than that and you're likely to find yourself driving it off the performance cliff and losing heaps of time.
by no way i am saying who is right or wrong, just adding more info
Nailed it. What we've learned is that the rubber can get hotter than we thought before certain compounds phase change and do other weird stuff. A loaded tyre surface might be closer to 200°C when sliding now rather than 165°C. That means more heat energy building up in the tread, so if you abuse the tyres by scrubbing them excessively or using a compound too soft for the track-weather combination, they are more likely to overheat now. Greater long term penalty for short term mistakes. As Tiago noted, the performance is still in there, but you have to work harder/smarter to get it without killing your rubber. For one quick lap, manage the starting temps and burn them up. If you want to run quick over a full race distance, think more about tyre management and not just turning fastest laps one after another for an hour.
Please be so kind and explain how you got to "they found an exploit" from those notes.It looks pretty clear to me,they found an exploit,corrected it and now people have to deal with it. Yes they messed upI think it's an absolutely brilliant update. Thank you SMS!
It's simple, but no one will accept it. Everyone not having heat issues is going slower. On 5.0 their tires were under optimal temperatures because they were going slower and not pushing their tires as hard. Now with the extra heat those people now have tires at the optimal temperature, so to them it appears cars are faster.
Yes I have worked with real world GT teams. Again I'm not saying you should be able to push hard every lap. What I am saying is that now you can't push hard for one lap without getting the tires up to 240F-250F. That is unrealistic. Even F1 tires last longer than a lap. In your Singapore example Vettel pushed for 4 laps.
No, just softs on Road America. Just did a 14 lap race with some series members and was doing mid to low 2:05's while taking it easy through the carousel. Tires were around 242 after the following right hander. I pushed on lap 12 and did 2:04.5 and the tires went to 250. I did notice something very interesting though. The tires were 230ish until I got to the carousel. Then the color instantly jumped from dark green to orange after that one corner. Even though that's a high lateral load corner the tires shouldn't jump 12 degrees when I'm not pushing. I think that points to the tires being a little too sensitive to load. I like the way the model is going, but I still think they went a little too far.
I don't think there's a difference in setups from TT other than ducts. My setups are all realistic other than camber.
For all interested in a day to day comparison i race at Bathurst yesterday night in skaanky's gt3 serie
So i did run on 6.0 with same setup 100% same conditions.
So first of all things have changed. A lot. And i like it far better than before.
Now those throwing like mads the cars in corners and going all 4 wheels sliding around in drift style will have rightfully to suffer.
Things that overheat your tires:
1) throwing car in turns suddenly
2) 4 wheels sliding into corners
3) LOCKING BRAKES (i run the m3 gt3 and it has no ABS) This will really really kill your tires!
4) Exceeding a certain wheel turning (it seems to add over the time)
The more you keep at it the more it adds for it takes more time for tires to cool down from abuse!
now a picture of last night race at lap 10:
and now a picture of 6.0
As can be easily seen, tire consumption is basically 100% the same. The FR tire do get more heated up in the twisted section but cools down pretty normally and doesn't have weird behaviour.
I tried overstressing the tires using a lot of wheel turning radius to achieve a faster time and i managed to get the tire 100% red out of the bad treatment i gave it. So smooth is the way to go.
It also provides a very interesting tire management and the way passes are taken can be important for an extreme pass with locked brakes might mean being pretty slower for 2-3 turns!
Another interesting thing is that going smooth makes your tires breath like they actually do in racing!
Last part is the car behaviour and speed.
1)car behaves diffrently! Or actually the same but you have to work your input in a more realistic way to avoid overheating the tires. The more the tire overheats the worse it'll behave; if you ease down for 3-4 turns it'll gradually cool again.
2)Times. As you can see above, times are faster for me. it seems that i'm getting that little extra warmt while turning that gives me some extra grip.
My best in race was in low 2.10s with draft on 5.0 race
In this 6.0 test i got easily a 2.09.928 with damaged aero (yeah i'm not a bathurst master lol), so if you take care of your tires IT'S ACTUALLY FASTER and i didn't tune it at all from 5.0! I'm pretty sure that with some pressure play i can make the car feel even better than this and get in 2.08s!
