Patch Release Notes and Discussion Thread

  • Thread starter DrJustice
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ozwheels
It's simple, but no one will accept it. Everyone not having heat issues is going slower. On 5.0 their tires were under optimal temperatures because they were going slower and not pushing their tires as hard. Now with the extra heat those people now have tires at the optimal temperature, so to them it appears cars are faster.
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This
 
ozwheels
I can assure you I don't throw cars into corners or scrub tires unnecessarily as that isn't the fastest way around pCars. He said expect more response from pressure changes yet we got the exact opposite.
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You want some videos?
 
FuzzyFassbender
I've tried Brands Hatch, Silverstone, Willow Springs, and Lagua Seca with a few cars (GT2, GT3, TransAM) and haven't found an tire overheating problem. But, I'm using mostly stock setups. Could it be that those that we setting their cars up for time trials are now finding those setups don't work well now (overworking the tires)? Were those setups unrealistic, they may have been fast. Just wondering as I'm not seeing a problem, I'm actually liking pCARS again (burned out after a couple years of development) after spending more time lately with my other sims.
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Yes totally,it's the I can't see the trees for the forest syndrom.
 
Zakspeed_TV
Medium are the same not try hards
Downforce does not help
No tuning really helps, the tyre model is wrong. They heat way to quick even when being super smooth.[/QUOHaveTE]
Have you ever thought that your setups no longer work? Not the first game to throw a wrench into setups.
Perhaps the slip sliding away no longer works?
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I can adapt to any driving style as I have done over the years that's not the problem, the tyres still heat way to quick it's over kill.
End of
 
Zakspeed_TV
I can adapt to any driving style as I have done over the years that's not the problem, the tyres still heat way to quick it's over kill.
End of
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So why do at least 10 people say its better,more realistic,but your final post is its overkill?
 
Zakspeed_TV
Medium are the same not try hards
Downforce does not help
No tuning really helps, the tyre model is wrong. They heat way to quick even when being super smooth.
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I am finding with downforce its not completley cured altho downforce is all i tuned differently to default set-up,the tyres do heat up a lot slower even when your running fast ,its also a lot easier to run consistantly at a qualifying pace as opposed to a car set-up that has little or no down force which over heats the tyres quicker

What i also find is any slide or tail wag during acceleration in the car regardless of downforce over heats the tyres incredibly quickly
 
Zakspeed_TV
I can adapt to any driving style as I have done over the years that's not the problem, the tyres still heat way to quick it's over kill.
End of
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Actually I'll go talk to SW,I'm sure you know who he is. Pretty unbiased guy.
 
Mike_grpA
Because they're super slow, terrible, crap drivers man. Only the mega fast world champion drivers will suffer problems, didn't you know that? It's not like real racing drivers have to nurse their tyres at all...
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Real race drivers? Oh OK,I thought we were talking about a video game!:lol::bowdown:
 
Im finding this particular thread interesting

The people who were running fast seem to think that the tyres are over heating too quickly ,where as the people who were running a little bit slower believe the new tyre model is good

Personally i beleive the old tyre model was not realistic ,it seemed far too easy to acheive maximum grip on any corner and was extremley easy to overdrive the car

Altho i do beleive the tyres are heating up just a touch too quickly ,the levels of grip is more varied and more of a simulation

I am pretty positive that the same people who were fast under patch 5 will still be fast by the time they understand and accept you now run slower on patch 6 to try and keep a consistant level of grip
 
I was fast before the patch, but I always found the tyre temps too conservative. I could hammer the car lap after lap, and wouldn't overheat the tyres. I was able to set the cars up very aggressively to provide more grip, knowing that I could run those kind of set ups for long races without a worry. I'm glad they're trying to make the tyre heating properties more realistic, as it'll add a huge amount of strategy to the game that was missing before.

I'm not buying the whole "fast drivers are being punished and only slow drivers are benefiting" argument. Good drivers, particularly ones who know how to set up a car, will always be able to get the most out of the car for single lap pace, and manage their temps to maximise pace through a stint. I've never heard of any real race series where drivers push the tyres to the absolute limits for entire races, or set their car up for ultimate one lap pace and run that set up for a race. I remember when the FIA introduced the Parc Ferme rules in F1 to prevent teams setting the car up in quali for ultimate, tyre shredding, one lap pace, and then change the set up for the race. Now they need to find a compromise, and decide whether to set up for more ultimate pace, and manage more in the race, or set up for the race, and be a little slower in quali.

Edit: I'll also add, that at Bathurst, in the Sierra group A, I could consistently set laps faster than the record time in that car for that track, held by the late Peter Brock. Now I'm confident in my ability behind the wheel, but I find it very unrealistic that I could run a lap, multiple seconds faster than his '87 Pole lap, let alone run a consistent string of laps that much faster during a race stint. I'd love to think that I am some kind of undiscovered racing legend, who could destroy the likes of the legendary Peter Brock with ease, but I'm not that arrogant to actually believe that, and it's pretty much the same deal as everyone destroying Senna's times in GT6. Everyone knew GT6 was unrealistic, and that was the reason, but somehow now people are incapable of understanding that Pcars wasn't realistic enough, and the times we were all able to run were unrealistically fast. They're making the tyre model more realistic, and people are complaining because they're not able to drive as fast now...
 
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The grip levels was to much before on GT3 thats why i liked GT4 better, the lap times was unrealistic they still are, im still under 640 in GT3 at Nords ! Like i said before some tacks are more over kill than others , Nords isn't that bad :lol:
is that more realistic?

Fast drivers are still fast but all we are saying is the tyre heat up to quick and for me it makes no sense from track to track, surly Nords would kill tyres ?
 
Mike_grpA
I'm not buying the whole "fast drivers are being punished and only slow drivers are benefiting" argument. Good drivers, particularly ones who know how to set up a car, will always be able to get the most out of the car for single lap pace, and manage their temps to maximise pace through a stint.
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Zakspeed_TV
The grip levels was to much before on GT3 thats why i liked GT4 better, the lap times was unrealistic they still are, im still under 640 in GT3 at Nords ! Like i said before some tacks are more over kill than others , Nords isn't that bad :lol:
is that more realistic?
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Abseloutley spot on ,The game is rewarding the consistant thoughtfull driving more as opposed to the driver that just finds their rythymn,its making you analyse your lap where you can really put the power down and where you need to use little to no throttle ,before the grip was too much and too consistant you could get the power down early and hard ,You can still hit close to the crazy times Zak did(well he can) for a really quick lap ,but your next lap your tyres are overheated so you lose grip ,which is why the slower drivers beleive they are benefiting because they are doing more consistant lap times
 
Ok so I just did my first test with 6.0, specifically trying to find out about this tyre heating problem people are having.

I first had a bit of a blast around mojave with the Lotus 49, as I'd read somewhere that the changes to tyres have made the old tyres far more realistic. If you haven't tried the 49 yet, give it a go, it's bloody glorious. It doesn't snap hard like it did before, it is far more progressive with the slip angles, and feels much more how you'd expect it to. Great fun! Also, no problems with temps at all, the operating window on this car is enormous, and I was drifting massive circles on the skid pan without overheating them. This is to be expected, as those old tyres were designed like that, so all good there.

Anyway, I then got a little more serious. I've noticed something of a trend, both here and at the official forum, where the people most vocal about tyres overheating are saying they've been driving GT3 cars, so I jumped in the Mclaren 12c GT3, and went straight to Catalunya, as it's hell on tyres in real racing there, with all the long medium and high speed right handers, the heavy loads on the left tyres will easily overheat them if you're not careful.

Right, so I went out, and did a normal outlap. I don't usually push on an outlap, as it's pointless, but I don't dawdle around either. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary. I then put in 5 laps paying attention not to scrub the fronts on those long corners (It's tempting to wind a bit more lock on I know), and avoiding wheelspin, and I noticed the temps rose on the first timed lap up to around 104 degrees C, but then stayed around there pretty consistently.

When I was exiting turns three and four, I noticed the temps had risen a few degrees, but would come back down pretty quickly and stabilise. During this period, I felt the temps were far more "alive" than before, where loading up the tyres, even a bit, would result in small temporary fluctuations.

Then I went for a rough lap. Throwing the car into corners, and really pushing on the front in the sweepers, and within one lap left tyre temps were up to 125 degrees, and the tyres were dark orange. I also noticed with this dramatic temp increase, the back end was very lively mid corner on the final corner.

So the next lap I went back to protecting the tyres, and without going too slow I had dropped the temp by 10 degrees on the lefts in one lap. So I pushed for time on the next lap, not being purposely rough like before, but just trying to be fast, but smooth, and not worrying about loading up the lefts through the sweepers. The temps rose 10 degrees again, but the lap was faster than before.

The next two laps I tried to nurse the tyres to reduce temps, but while giving away as little lap time as possible. This was tricky, as I had to really be mindful of sustaining a high peak load on the lefts through all those hard long right handers, but without bleeding lap time. I managed to drop the temps by 10 degrees each lap, so in two laps they were back in the perfect 105 degree zone, but I had only gone 8 tenths slower on the first lap, and 9 tenths slower on the second lap.

So this had me keen to see if I could use the tyres in the right parts of the track, and nurse them in the right parts, and get as good a lap as I could without raising temps. I did a run of four laps, all quite quick, and each one was faster than the last, all of them faster than the lap where I pushed hard, due to not overheating the tyres by the last sector I guess, and in those four laps, my temps had only risen by ten degrees, from 105 to 115.

I'll test other cars, but so far I'm really liking how alive the tyres feel now. Before I could be lazy and just lean hard on the tyres lap after lap and the temps would hardly change at all. Now the temps are fluctuating constantly with every turn. They feel way more realistic to me this way. Maybe I'll find some cars or tracks where the effect may seem too strong/not strong enough, I don't know, and if I do I'll share it with you all, but so far I'm happy with what I'm seeing.

I will say though, that the one thing that concerns me, is the AI's physics don't contain temperatures, so while this tyre management is way more realistic, it might mean those of us playing career might have to drop the difficulty a bit. Although that's probably a good thing, as some races were ridiculously easy even at 100%, so maybe the career will be more challenging now. Anyway I'm ranting lol.
 
Zakspeed_TV
Medium are the same not try hards
Downforce does not help
No tuning really helps, the tyre model is wrong. They heat way to quick even when being super smooth.
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I'm getting decent results depending on the compound, but yes I'm aware the fastest guys are having the most issues since they automatically put the most station on the tires by driving closest to the limit. I just don't think the driving on the limit should be easy for the tires to take.
 
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TexasTyme214
I'm getting decent results depending on the compound, but yes I'm aware the fastest guys are having the most issues since they automatically put the most station on the tires by driving closest to the limit. I just don't think the driving on the limit should be easy for the tires to take.
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No they shouldn't but they still heat to fast, have you tested different tracks? can anyone tell me why a few laps at Sakitto GP heat 3 times as much as 2 laps at Nords?
 
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Mike_grpA
Ok so I just did my first test with 6.0, specifically trying to find out about this tyre heating problem people are having.

I first had a bit of a blast around mojave with the Lotus 49, as I'd read somewhere that the changes to tyres have made the old tyres far more realistic. If you haven't tried the 49 yet, give it a go, it's bloody glorious. It doesn't snap hard like it did before, it is far more progressive with the slip angles, and feels much more how you'd expect it to. Great fun! Also, no problems with temps at all, the operating window on this car is enormous, and I was drifting massive circles on the skid pan without overheating them. This is to be expected, as those old tyres were designed like that, so all good there.

Anyway, I then got a little more serious. I've noticed something of a trend, both here and at the official forum, where the people most vocal about tyres overheating are saying they've been driving GT3 cars, so I jumped in the Mclaren 12c GT3, and went straight to Catalunya, as it's hell on tyres in real racing there, with all the long medium and high speed right handers, the heavy loads on the left tyres will easily overheat them if you're not careful.

Right, so I went out, and did a normal outlap. I don't usually push on an outlap, as it's pointless, but I don't dawdle around either. I noticed nothing out of the ordinary. I then put in 5 laps paying attention not to scrub the fronts on those long corners (It's tempting to wind a bit more lock on I know), and avoiding wheelspin, and I noticed the temps rose on the first timed lap up to around 104 degrees C, but then stayed around there pretty consistently.

When I was exiting turns three and four, I noticed the temps had risen a few degrees, but would come back down pretty quickly and stabilise. During this period, I felt the temps were far more "alive" than before, where loading up the tyres, even a bit, would result in small temporary fluctuations.

Then I went for a rough lap. Throwing the car into corners, and really pushing on the front in the sweepers, and within one lap left tyre temps were up to 125 degrees, and the tyres were dark orange. I also noticed with this dramatic temp increase, the back end was very lively mid corner on the final corner.

So the next lap I went back to protecting the tyres, and without going too slow I had dropped the temp by 10 degrees on the lefts in one lap. So I pushed for time on the next lap, not being purposely rough like before, but just trying to be fast, but smooth, and not worrying about loading up the lefts through the sweepers. The temps rose 10 degrees again, but the lap was faster than before.

The next two laps I tried to nurse the tyres to reduce temps, but while giving away as little lap time as possible. This was tricky, as I had to really be mindful of sustaining a high peak load on the lefts through all those hard long right handers, but without bleeding lap time. I managed to drop the temps by 10 degrees each lap, so in two laps they were back in the perfect 105 degree zone, but I had only gone 8 tenths slower on the first lap, and 9 tenths slower on the second lap.

So this had me keen to see if I could use the tyres in the right parts of the track, and nurse them in the right parts, and get as good a lap as I could without raising temps. I did a run of four laps, all quite quick, and each one was faster than the last, all of them faster than the lap where I pushed hard, due to not overheating the tyres by the last sector I guess, and in those four laps, my temps had only risen by ten degrees, from 105 to 115.

I'll test other cars, but so far I'm really liking how alive the tyres feel now. Before I could be lazy and just lean hard on the tyres lap after lap and the temps would hardly change at all. Now the temps are fluctuating constantly with every turn. They feel way more realistic to me this way. Maybe I'll find some cars or tracks where the effect may seem too strong/not strong enough, I don't know, and if I do I'll share it with you all, but so far I'm happy with what I'm seeing.

I will say though, that the one thing that concerns me, is the AI's physics don't contain temperatures, so while this tyre management is way more realistic, it might mean those of us playing career might have to drop the difficulty a bit. Although that's probably a good thing, as some races were ridiculously easy even at 100%, so maybe the career will be more challenging now. Anyway I'm ranting lol.
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Solid research :) I'm slightly concerned by the AI as well. No tire temps and I assume no tire wear either, so the player has to tip toe around a bit more but they do not. I understand the limitations though and as long as the racing is close fun I'm happy. Having said that, the AI is still hit and miss in some classes where they're just not fast enough.
 
Had a short blast on Bathurst with the 12c GT3, and didn't have any trouble with excessive overheating. Had orange tyres over the top of the mountain if I was pushing hard for a fast lap like a mid 2:05, but not dark orange or anything, and they'd cool back down going down conrod. Lapping at low to flat 6s kept the tyres in the green for the whole lap. This was with stock settings except for higher downforce, minimum camber, and minimum brake mapping.

Then I did a few laps of Spa with the Formula A, just to see if it was affected by the changes. It had my set up from when I was in FA in career, so I didn't change anything from that, and it felt great to drive, and I had no problem at all with tyre temp.

Nothing more to add tonight. It's getting close to midnight and I've gotta be up early, got a big day tomorrow. :cheers:

Edit: @bleeder, The AI has tyre wear, just not temps. If you watch them in a replay you can see their tyre wear in the hud, but there is no colour in the meter, it's just shades of grey.
 
Mike_grpA
Had a short blast on Bathurst with the 12c GT3, and didn't have any trouble with excessive overheating. Had orange tyres over the top of the mountain if I was pushing hard for a fast lap like a mid 2:05, but not dark orange or anything, and they'd cool back down going down conrod. Lapping at low to flat 6s kept the tyres in the green for the whole lap. This was with stock settings except for higher downforce, minimum camber, and minimum brake mapping.

Then I did a few laps of Spa with the Formula A, just to see if it was affected by the changes. It had my set up from when I was in FA in career, so I didn't change anything from that, and it felt great to drive, and I had no problem at all with tyre temp.

Nothing more to add tonight. It's getting close to midnight and I've gotta be up early, got a big day tomorrow. :cheers:

Edit: @bleeder, The AI has tyre wear, just not temps. If you watch them in a replay you can see their tyre wear in the hud, but there is no colour in the meter, it's just shades of grey.
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Excellent news! I took the 12C round Bathurst last night and was surprised by how green the tires stayed. Granted, I only managed a 2:08 but those long straights really help keep the temps in check.
 
Using GT3 RUF, AUDI and McClaren w/ hard slicks. No temperature issues.
Same for medium slicks. Soft tires are red after 2 or 3 laps.
Tracks were SPA, Road America and Barcelona GP.
Also I hardly ever use soft tires. I run hard slicks 99.9 % of the time.
It forces me to build up speed progressively. Sets my driving rhythm.

Put worked up to16 consecutive laps at each track with minimal brake fade.
Did 1 hour 30 minutes on-line at Road America in steady rain.
Had 15 racers in a cruz/tune room. Intermediate and wet tires were excellent.
Just my opinion you have to try yourself.
 
Could this be related to the temp rise people are having ? Track surface temp too high ?

mr_serious
While I was doing some more searching just now I found a post on the PCars forum about update v3 in which it stated that track temps were now unified across the XBox, PS4 and PC.

I'm on PC, but I had set the weather, in this instance, to fixed "Light Cloud" . However last time I played (v5) I had set it to real weather. It was a foggy 9am and the real temperature where I live (roughly 45 miles straight from Brands) was 15ºc (I live on the coast & the temperature is moderated by the sea. At Brands, which is inland in the countryside the real ambient temps were 11ºc). That time I wanted to see if the real weather worked. I checked that it was actually foggy at Brands also.

The game did in fact provide fog for the real time, real weather setting, but the track temperature on that occasion was 28ºC despite the real ambient temperatures for Brands being around 11ºC at the time. I doubt a foggy 11ºc morning would produce a 28ºC track temp.

I was testing it again because the adjusted tyre temperature algorithmns must also be affected by the much too high track temperatures?
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Blood*Specter
Using GT3 RUF, AUDI and McClaren w/ hard slicks. No temperature issues.
Same for medium slicks. Soft tires are red after 2 or 3 laps.
Tracks were SPA, Road America and Barcelona GP.
Also I hardly ever use soft tires. I run hard slicks 99.9 % of the time.
It forces me to build up speed progressively. Sets my driving rhythm.

Put worked up to16 consecutive laps at each track with minimal brake fade.
Did 1 hour 30 minutes on-line at Road America in steady rain.
Had 15 racers in a cruz/tune room. Intermediate and wet tires were excellent.
Just my opinion you have to try yourself.
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I was running hards a while back but missed the grip of the softs. Might go for mediums for a bit and try to compensate grip levels with a mild retune, see how different they feel.
 

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