Patch Release Notes and Discussion Thread

[Mike_grpA]

DiRT Rally on Ultra settings on the PC looks good.... Particularly draw distances and roadside detail are excellent. Yes, the lighting model could use some improvement and some higher resolution car textures would be nice, but F1 2015 showed Codies are already on top of that with the new iteration.

I think you need to distinguish between EGO engine as used on last gen consoles and the capabilities which were always in there and seen on PC.

As for Codies being unable to make a good game... Tens of thousands of DiRT Rally fans are going to disagree there. It was a suprise, but DiRT Rally really is a very good game. A proper brutal uncompromising rally sim by almost every measure, and nicely judged to appeal to a wide enough audience despite being a proper sim.

Damn you, we're already starved of a great rally game on console, and you are making the wait for Dirt Rally even worse with that comment lol. I think I might get SLR just to keep me going. WRC 5 looks bloody terrible, but SLR seems ok, if a bit too arcadey, to get a quick rally fix while we wait for Dirt.

 

[dopedog]

Key thing is with PCars 1 even people who love and still play the game some will say "this is the best racing game ever i can't stop playing it.....ok it has bugs but i can live with it" , or "this is the best racing game ever but i've just about had enough of the bugs..."
No one, now even the MODS on official forum, bother to try to suggest its not got problems, hence the line now is "pcars 2 will come back bigger and stronger" so either you just try to gloss over them or realise there is no alternative on consoles yet but still quite rightly you should be able to let off steam over the problems......
I have crashes back to dashboard when selecting cars, every like 10th or so time i select a car (pain when messing with FFB or tuning), other night it happened and i lost my game save. Say that on official forum and its my xbox at fault, but loads of people even PC users get this!
That is what grinds my gears, fix the simple things SMS!

To sum up its all there is for me right now so i play it and love it, but boy it really isn't the game that I thought i was getting, Its not stressing me out, there are much more important things, but in a game context i and others quite rightly should feel that SMS need to listen to some of the dissenting voices, hanging around with a bunch of yes men on the pay roll and small minded fanboys desperate to be apart of the 'gang' will do them no good in the future.

I imagine what PCars 1 was like on the first release date before the delays, i'll bet there was alot of "just sweep that under the carpet, remove that, they wont notice that, say its the console, we'll ban them if they complain"

 

[Mike_grpA]

You raise a good point there @dopedog, when the official forum had so many people who would jump on anyone raising issues, it must have given them a confidence that Ian kind of reflected in his "stuff 'em, plenty of people stick by us, so we don't need the ones who don't" attitude.

Nowdays, even WMD members are jumping from the sinking ship. I've seen so many of them complaining, saying they're giving up on the game, and flat out spitting it with SMS and letting out four years of frustration in one go. Plenty getting banned for it too. Pretendracecars is going to have a field day with it, the way they've made a massive joke out of all the issues Pcars has faced.

I imagine what PCars 1 was like on the first release date before the delays, i'll bet there was alot of "just sweep that under the carpet, remove that, they wont notice that, say its the console, we'll ban them if they complain"

That's actually pretty accurate I'd imagine. On the WMD forum before the game released, SMS had moderators tell the WMD members to go out and hype up the game, specifically to hype up features that had either been removed, or not added yet, that were due to be added in future. They said (paraphrasing) "we know the game is unfinished, and this is why we need you all to tell everyone that Pcars is a work in progress, and that no matter how much is wrong with it or missing from it at launch, everything will be fixed and it'll be amazing".

Remember the marketing pitch we all received from WMD members before the game came out? How Pcars was going to be the most realistic sim ever made, and it was WIP, but would be supported for two years, and continually improved and would evolve even further into something amazing. That whole hype fest was actually them doing what they were told to do on the WMD forum. At the end of the day, they were lied to, in order to spread hype for a game that would never live up to the expectations SMS were raising, all to generate short-term sales. It worked beautifully too. This is why I won't believe a word about Pcars 2 until it's out, and only then will I make up my own mind after reading a lot of impressions.

 

[dopedog]

I've been reflecting over this, I see it like this:

You go into work and the Boss tells the worker bee's, "hey guys so sorry but times are tough and we are going to have to reduce your wages and take away a few perks, but once the ship is steady all will be well again"

Then you find out that the Boss and his team have actually had a pay rise...
There will always be the guys who go

"Well thats life, i'm just glad i've got a job, he is the Boss after all" (these people are well meaning and maybe have more to lose, family to support etc, i 'get' them but dont agree with them)

then those who will question

"why has the Boss has taken a rise in pay? So what if its his business its unfair! He said we were struggling! I'll start sending out my CV right away and no way is he getting 100% out of me now"

I'm the latter....no so sure now whether thats the best way to be... the world favours the sheep.

Sorry to edit, theres a 3rd group, the suck ups who think they can worm there way into the Boss's inner circle by being nasty and righteous, the Boss will use them but NEVER let them into his true circle, ever.

This happened to me in 'real life' , now i work for myself..ha

 

[mister dog]

Pretendracecars is going to have a field day with it, the way they've made a massive joke out of all the issues Pcars has faced.

They've made a massive joke out of themselves lately with all the conspiracy BS. He managed to get both Kunos and Reiza studios to turn their backs on his little blog now too, as he keeps on resorting to tabloid shenanigans.

 

[dopedog]

I do like what Kunos are saying regards AC on consoles and maybe they arent the saviours, but with SMS they had previous with me as i purchased both Shift 1 an 2, shift 1 was as disgrace but shift 2 once i'd fiddled with setting was ok. But shift 2 was riddled with issues and bugs and left in that state, that was SMS selling out to EA but then blaming EA....then PCars comes along with bugs and issues some of which carried over from Shift 2, cars bottoming out on track and some of the tyre animation 'sinking' into the tarmac, shadows disappearing under cars etc etc.

Only time will tell, but i'd wager come PCars 2 there will be bugs aplenty its in the DNA of SMS.
I read a post on the official forum where a guy said how great the game is and dispite the bugs he loved it, fair enough i agree, but then he went onto say how unfair it is to complain about SMS and he said and i quote :

"SMS get a rough deal and i don't understand, they have given us 7 patches so far all those free updates!"

So if people are genuinely happy that SMS didn't charge them for fixing their own mistakes, well can't they pretty much get away with anything?

 

[Mike_grpA]

They've made a massive joke out of themselves lately with all the conspiracy BS. He managed to get both Kunos and Reiza studios to turn their backs on his little blog now too, as he keeps on resorting to tabloid shenanigans.

Yeah they tend to wind up a story as much as possible, but they did succeed in getting under Ian's skin. Although, getting under his skin only requires having an issue with his games so that's probably not much of an achievement lol. If you can ignore the sensationalist way they go about exaggerating things over there, they do leak some interesting little tid bits from time to time.

"SMS get a rough deal and i don't understand, they have given us 7 patches so far all those free updates!"

So if people are genuinely happy that SMS didn't charge them for fixing their own mistakes, well can't they pretty much get away with anything?

Haha all those free updates, what the bug fixes that mostly didn't help much?

 

[bleeder]

Sorry, but the madness engine doesn't play well, it's absolutely riddled with bugs on every platform and every title it's been used for, and the graphics of Pcars are no better than Codies games, neither are the sounds.

The EGO 4.0 engine was "all new", using Codies' own words, not modified. The 4.0 EGO engine only powers F1 2015 for some reason, but my guess is Dirt Rally development must have started quite early, as it uses the same version found in F1 2013/2014, and Autosport.

According to SMS, their engine was going to provide the most realistic sim racing experience money could buy, and their tyre model was second to none, but I think we've all learned over the past half a year or so that SMS is so full of **** that they need toilet paper on hand for every time they open their mouths.

Just have a look at the way the EGO engine handles collisions and rollovers compared to the Madness engine. The best part of the Madness engine is the new SETA tyre model, and it's mostly broken in Pcars anyway.

The first EGO engine was developed from a 2007 engine Sony and Codies' co-developed, but EGO was far more advanced than that engine. There have been multiple versions of EGO, and the newest, according to Codemasters, is all new. F1 2015 certainly feels nothing like the previous games. Race Department hailed the new engine as a massive step in the right direction.

SMS spoke a lot about how great the Madness engine was, same with the SETA tyre model, and now they're saying they have to build the engine from the ground up for Pcars 2 because the engine behind 1 was too restrictive and didn't allow them to change things easily. They couldn't even get basic things like triple screens to work with it properly.

Considering SMS couldn't get the Madness engine to work properly with any of the games it powered since 2009, I'm a little worried that they think they can build a new engine for Pcars 2 within 2 years...

The worst thing about the Madness engine is the physics when any car leaves the ground. Whenever the tyres are on the road it's great but when you're airborne it looks far from convincing. The crash physics are quite poor compared to Codies' games.

 

[Mike_grpA]

The worst thing about the Madness engine is the physics when any car leaves the ground. Whenever the tyres are on the road it's great but when you're airborne it looks far from convincing. The crash physics are quite poor compared to Codies' games.

Absolutely. If we're going purely off realism, and ignoring the bugs for argument's sake, the tyre and suspension models of Pcars are far superior to anything Codies has ever made, fact. But yeah, if you contact anything or tyres leave the road, especially in rollovers, it suddenly feels like an old PS1 game in the physics. I don't know why they released it like that, it's like they just got to that part and went "oh, it's good enough, hopefully people just don't crash" lol.

The funniest moments happen due to the brain dead AI smashing into each other on tight circuits like Monaco, some of the resulting carnage is unreal. Or try a full field of AI in Lotus 49Cs, they are so bad at driving them they all crash at the first turn, and you get to see some of the weirdest things happen with the crash physics in those big pileups.

If you took the things SMS have done right (suspension, tyre and aero models), plus the things Codies have done right (contact and rollover physics, damage physics, menu presentation) with none of the bugs, you'd have the perfect game.

Actually, all of those things together, with the actual game content and career from Codies' Race Driver 3, and you'd have a damn near unbeatable racing game.

 

[UkHardcore23]

The worst thing about the Madness engine is the physics when any car leaves the ground. Whenever the tyres are on the road it's great but when you're airborne it looks far from convincing. The crash physics are quite poor compared to Codies' games.

Id agree with that...Codies certainly do crash physics better but non crash physics i dont think they get anywhere near as close their games to tend to be alot more crash oreintated though so its understandable they put alot more effort into the crashing.

As for Dirt Rally looking good on Ultra on PC fair enough ive not seen it in person only videos but its still not quite what id expect in 2016 when its released and games on PC on ultra generally do look great anyway but surely it should look much better?...whats the chances of them exporting to the new shiny engine they have in time for release on consoles like Bugbear have done?

 

[skazz]

As for Dirt Rally looking good on Ultra on PC fair enough ive not seen it in person only videos but its still not quite what id expect in 2016 when its released

The question is what you're expecting. I think it looks very good on PC even compared to games like pCARS or AC on ultra. The lighting model isn't up to the best out there, however that helps them achieve good visuals even on relatively modest PCs, which was probably deliberate.
F1 2015 attempted (but didn't achieve) 60fps on consoles. DiRT Rally is apparently also going for 60fps on consoles, so if it doesn't look less impressive than Driveclub (30fps) and Sebastian Loeb Rally (30fps) then I'd be very surprised. Remember it has huge draw distances compared to circuit racers, and many more trackside objects. Going 60fps will certainly involve compromise, just as it did for anyone else who has attempted it on the current gen consoles.

Whats the chances of them exporting to the new shiny engine they have in time for release on consoles like Bugbear have done?

Since DiRT Rally was a "ghetto" project for Codies, testing out the waters with early access, I'm not sure what their plans are. The EGO engine changes to make DiRT Rally work were mostly focused on longer stages and therefore larger environments: DiRT 3 wouldn't have been able to cope with some of the 15km stages in DiRT Rally, let alone Pikes Peak.

I don't know how the (parallel?) development of the new engine as seen in F1 2015 has gone. Can they handle the larger environment sizes with it yet? Are they revising the engine to handle the kind of streaming needed for an open world environment? Only time will tell.

 

[UkHardcore23]

The question is what you're expecting. I think it looks very good on PC even compared to games like pCARS or AC on ultra. The lighting model isn't up to the best out there, however that helps them achieve good visuals even on relatively modest PCs, which was probably deliberate.
F1 2015 attempted (but didn't achieve) 60fps on consoles. DiRT Rally is apparently also going for 60fps on consoles, so if it doesn't look less impressive than Driveclub (30fps) and Sebastian Loeb Rally (30fps) then I'd be very surprised. Remember it has huge draw distances compared to circuit racers, and many more trackside objects. Going 60fps will certainly involve compromise, just as it did for anyone else who has attempted it on the current gen consoles.


Since DiRT Rally was a "ghetto" project for Codies, testing out the waters with early access, I'm not sure what their plans are. The EGO engine changes to make DiRT Rally work were mostly focused on longer stages and therefore larger environments: DiRT 3 wouldn't have been able to cope with some of the 15km stages in DiRT Rally, let alone Pikes Peak.

I don't know how the (parallel?) development of the new engine as seen in F1 2015 has gone. Can they handle the larger environment sizes with it yet? Are they revising the engine to handle the kind of streaming needed for an open world environment? Only time will tell.

With it being a Rally game with just one car on track i guess i expected it to look better than any other racer out there the majority of time (when Dirt first released on Xbox 360 it was the best looking racer on consoles) To me it looks dated it looks like a game that could of came out 4 or 5 years ago rather than in 2016. However as i say im only going by video's and what other people have said about the game.

If it scales well to consoles and we get close to Ultra graphics (should be doable right?) i'l be happy.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

I have to disagree, I run Dirt Rally at 3440x1440 and it looks fantastic, with a very smooth framerate!

 

[UkHardcore23]

It's not the worst looking game by any stretch of the imagination but running on such a tired and dated engine it's never going to push any boundaries and inside the cockpit it looks like something we'd of seen 10 years ago on Xbox 360



Codies should of put alot more effort into this title it kinda looks like they just cobbled together a game from leftovers from last gen which they've flung together for a quick buck with minimal effort. Maybe im harsh on poor old Codies but after a full gen of poor games it's left me with a sour taste.

Lets see what they can come up with after they manage to get another Dirt out.

 

[mister dog]

However as i say im only going by video's and what other people have said about the game.

I guess that's your problem. Maybe cockpit detail could be a tad better but the stages look glorious.

 

[Mike_grpA]

DiRT Rally is apparently also going for 60fps on consoles, so if it doesn't look less impressive than Driveclub (30fps) and Sebastian Loeb Rally (30fps) then I'd be very surprised. Remember it has huge draw distances compared to circuit racers, and many more trackside objects.

Sebastian Loeb Rally looks extremely basic in the demo. The lighting is very basic, the cars don't seem to reflect the environment, and the textures are very very basic. I was actually surprised by how bad it looks. From what I've seen of Dirt Rally, it'll demoloish SLR in this department (and probably every other department too).

It's not the worst looking game by any stretch of the imagination but running on such a tired and dated engine it's never going to push any boundaries and inside the cockpit it looks like something we'd of seen 10 years ago on Xbox 360

Codies should of put alot more effort into this title it kinda looks like they just cobbled together a game from leftovers from last gen which they've flung together for a quick buck with minimal effort. Maybe im harsh on poor old Codies but after a full gen of poor games it's left me with a sour taste.

Lets see what they can come up with after they manage to get another Dirt out.

That's just way too harsh, the engine it runs is a development of EGO 3, which itself isn't any more dated than what you'd find in many other games. The latest one was all new, which was due to their decision to take future titles in a more realistic direction, and needing a new engine to underpin their games, as EGO 3 had basically reached it's limits.

To me, it looks no worse than Pcars. Pcars has nicer car models, but the trackside detail ends about 2 metres from the track's edge, so each is making compromises in different areas. Pcars has massive LOD popup for the same reason. It's ridiculous to say it looks like a 10 year old 360 game, because it just doesn't.

The fact is, unless you know how much of EGO 3 actually remains unchanged since the first EGO engine, or even Neon, which I imagine is somewhere between nothing and bugger all, then you can't claim the engine to be tired and dated, as it's earliest game came out in 2013. If we are going to play that game, SMS has developed Madness since 2009, and the biggest difference in the way each engine has developed is while Codies have improved EGO with each version, SMS has continually broken the Madness engine more and more every time they add to it.

 

[skazz]

It's not the worst looking game by any stretch of the imagination but running on such a tired and dated engine it's never going to push any boundaries and inside the cockpit it looks like something we'd of seen 10 years ago on Xbox 360

That video really doesn't look like it's running at 1080p, has horrible compression quality, and doesn't look like the game is actually set to full graphics settings.

It looks WAY better than that on my PC.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Sebastian Loeb Rally looks extremely basic in the demo. The lighting is very basic, the cars don't seem to reflect the environment, and the textures are very very basic. I was actually surprised by how bad it looks. From what I've seen of Dirt Rally, it'll demoloish SLR in this department (and probably every other department too).



That's just way too harsh, the engine it runs is a development of EGO 3, which itself isn't any more dated than what you'd find in many other games. The latest one was all new, which was due to their decision to take future titles in a more realistic direction, and needing a new engine to underpin their games, as EGO 3 had basically reached it's limits.

To me, it looks no worse than Pcars. Pcars has nicer car models, but the trackside detail ends about 2 metres from the track's edge, so each is making compromises in different areas. Pcars has massive LOD popup for the same reason. It's ridiculous to say it looks like a 10 year old 360 game, because it just doesn't.

The fact is, unless you know how much of EGO 3 actually remains unchanged since the first EGO engine, or even Neon, which I doubt is somewhere between nothing and bugger all, then you can't claim the engine to be tired and dated, as it's earliest game came out in 2013. If we are going to play that game, SMS has developed Madness since 2009, and the biggest difference in the way each engine has developed is while Codies have improved EGO with each version, SMS has continually broken the Madness engine more and more every time they add to it.

The cockpit graphics are what i said looks like a 10 year old 360 game not the game itself, I know Codies are pretty adamant that only 5% of gamers use cockpit hence the very little effort when it comes to cockpits in their games but still would be good to get it up to scratch for us 5 percenters.

PCars has how many cars on track? 40 odd? Yet i'd certainly say PCars on Ultra looks far more impressive especially when it comes to the lighting model.

We are just going round in circles here now though as you guys are not going to convince me Dirt is a great looking game and im not going to convince you's PCars is a great looking game

 

[skazz]

I'm not going to convince you's PCars is a great looking game

That's a strange comment. Personally I think pCARS on ultra settings on PC looks awesome. Definitely the best eye candy racer I have ever played. Nothing else on PC comes close (including R3E, AC, DR, rF2, iRacing, Wreckfest, etc...).
pCARS on the consoles is somewhat less awesome, especially due to attempting to hit 60fps. We'll have to wait and see how DR compares.

 

[Mike_grpA]

The cockpit graphics are what i said looks like a 10 year old 360 game not the game itself, I know Codies are pretty adamant that only 5% of gamers use cockpit hence the very little effort when it comes to cockpits in their games but still would be good to get it up to scratch for us 5 percenters.

PCars has how many cars on track? 40 odd? Yet i'd certainly say PCars on Ultra looks far more impressive especially when it comes to the lighting model.

We are just going round in circles here now though as you guys are not going to convince me Dirt is a great looking game and im not going to convince you's PCars is a great looking game

As I pointed out, each has made compromises to hit it's targets. I never said Pcars doesn't look great, but it has obvious compromises, like any other game. Even Driveclub, which has significantly better lighting, reflections, and particle effects than Pcars, as well as the models themselves, had to sacrifice the frame rate to achieve those strengths. Pcars, is capable of far more cars on track, yes, but it suffers multiple issues when you play with that many cars on track. The LOD pop in is bad even with only a couple on track though.

Each game has it's strengths and weaknesses, which is why you can't just blindly praise everything in one game, and dump on everything in the other. I've thoroughly enjoyed Pcars, and I can't wait to get my hands on Dirt Rally. I also thoroughly enjoy F1 2015, I've had a really fun time with The Crew, and if my wheel worked with Driveclub, you can be sure I'd still be playing that too. They all have something significant to offer that the others don't.

 

[UkHardcore23]

That's a strange comment. Personally I think pCARS on ultra settings on PC looks awesome. Definitely the best eye candy racer I have ever played. Nothing else on PC comes close (including R3E, AC, DR, rF2, iRacing, Wreckfest, etc...).
pCARS on the consoles is somewhat less awesome, especially due to attempting to hit 60fps. We'll have to wait and see how DR compares.

On consoles i cannot think of a better looking racer? At times DC looks better but that game can look dam right ugly its only really overcast and rain conditions that game looks good and for that game to look good it has to limit the cars to 10 and have a very basic physics engine and of course it cannot manage the higher fps that pcars does.

 

[Mike_grpA]

On consoles i cannot think of a better looking racer? At times DC looks better but that game can look dam right ugly as well its only really overcast and rain conditions that game looks good and for that game to look good it has to limit the cars to 10 and have a very basic physics engine and of course it cannot manage the higher fps that pcars does.

DC looks a lot better than Pcars in dry conditions. It looks significantly better in all conditions than Pcars does even on PC. It also has a far more complex dynamic weather system. I think you may need to go have a look in the Driveclub section of the forum if you honestly think the graphics of Pcars even comes close. Even the glamour shots SMS does to promote upcoming DLC isn't on par with DC.

 

[UkHardcore23]

DC looks a lot better than Pcars in dry conditions. It looks significantly better in all conditions than Pcars does even on PC. It also has a far more complex dynamic weather system. I think you may need to go have a look in the Driveclub section of the forum if you honestly think the graphics of Pcars even comes close. Even the glamour shots SMS does to promote upcoming DLC isn't on par with DC.

You really dont like PCars getting any praise at all do you? Trust me i have put alot of time into Driveclub before PCars came out so i dont need to go anywhere...at times it can look really poor.

Here is the first gameplay screen ive come across to post...

Pretty ugly im sure youl agree?

 

[Mike_grpA]

You really dont like PCars getting any praise at all do you? Trust me i have put alot of time into Driveclub before PCars came out so i dont need to go anywhere...at times it can look really poor.

Here is the first gameplay screen ive come across to post...

Pretty ugly im sure youl agree?

No, but you seem hell bent on praising it blindly and claiming it's better than everything else in every way. I've already stated in this thread alone numerous times it has upsides and downsides. Hell, 14 odd posts before that stupid claim of yours I was praising Pcars' tyre and suspension models.

That image of Driveclub looks fine, the motion blur makes everything look less sharp than it would otherwise, but I don't see how that looks so "ugly". I could easily find thousands of pics of Pcars that look far worse than that. Taking pics in Pcars, I always had to be creative with angles to avoid dodgy looking bits, because the graphics are inconsistent. Close-ups also aren't great in Pcars.

Edit: So as to avoid anymore silly claims like "you don't like Pcars getting any praise", I'd even go as far as to say that when it works, it's one of the best racing games I've ever played. In terms of physics, and FFB feel, it's miles beyond what Driveclub offers. It's also my favourite current racing game, and there are a lot of great racing games out right now.

The issue I have is with the blind apologists that try to dump on other games and claim Pcars does everything better than every other game. DC has significantly better graphics, and far superior dynamic weather and time of day, FM6 has way more content, and amazing customisation not possible in Pcars, F1 2015 has the race weekend atmosphere completely missing from Pcars, and the others actually. So IMO, despite Pcars being my favourite, there's no way I'd delude myself into believing it's better than it's rivals in every way.

 

[dopedog]

PCars looks great in a raw real gritty UK club race way, that is a compliment, when i used to get back from a wet and windy grey day at Donington or Oulton Park with the buzz of racing in my head putting on Forza 4 or 5 etc didn't really cut it with it lavish bright sunny tracks. PCars gives you that sense of being at a track and for an Englishman that is worth the entrance fee alone to have those UK tracks and the weather system in place.

BUT, like Mike says all of this is great, but when they release a DLC with the renault RS 01 and the AI cars have this weird thing where suddenly when following them the body work just disappears! Well that is just shoddy in an otherwise great DLC, i cant drive the Ginnetta GT5s at Oulton Park as it crashes my system to dashboard, Aston GT3 also has AI with random body work disappearing...
there is basic shoddy mistakes which at best are just missed in QA but at worst i fear they are just bodged with a "well they will still buy it" attitude, because time and time again i hear "what else is there on consoles", that is why SMS need some competition and QUICK!

 

[UkHardcore23]

No, but you seem hell bent on praising it blindly and claiming it's better than everything else in every way. I've already stated in this thread alone numerous times it has upsides and downsides. Hell, 14 odd posts before that stupid claim of yours I was praising Pcars' tyre and suspension models.

That image of Driveclub looks fine, the motion blur makes everything look less sharp than it would otherwise, but I don't see how that looks so "ugly". I could easily find thousands of pics of Pcars that look far worse than that. Taking pics in Pcars, I always had to be creative with angles to avoid dodgy looking bits, because the graphics are inconsistent. Close-ups also aren't great in Pcars.

Edit: So as to avoid anymore silly claims like "you don't like Pcars getting any praise", I'd even go as far as to say that when it works, it's one of the best racing games I've ever played. In terms of physics, and FFB feel, it's miles beyond what Driveclub offers. It's also my favourite current racing game, and there are a lot of great racing games out right now.

The issue I have is with the blind apologists that try to dump on other games and claim Pcars does everything better than every other game. DC has significantly better graphics, and far superior dynamic weather and time of day, FM6 has way more content, and amazing customisation not possible in Pcars, F1 2015 has the race weekend atmosphere completely missing from Pcars, and the others actually. So IMO, despite Pcars being my favourite, there's no way I'd delude myself into believing it's better than it's rivals in every way.

Blind apoligist? Claiming that PCars does everything better...Maybe you should read more of my posts and head on over to the official forum also

I read your post on DC last night about how amazing Driveclub is and how it's modern gaming done right...Not sure how on earth you can come to that conclusion. 30fps for a racer is horrible, only 10 cars on track is horrible, The very basic physics engine is horrible and does not touch PGR. Honestly how you can say that is beyond me and yet you claim im a Blind Apologist.

PCars looks great in a raw real gritty UK club race way, that is a compliment, when i used to get back from a wet and windy grey day at Donington or Oulton Park with the buzz of racing in my head putting on Forza 4 or 5 etc didn't really cut it with it lavish bright sunny tracks. PCars gives you that sense of being at a track and for an Englishman that is worth the entrance fee alone to have those UK tracks and the weather system in place.

BUT, like Mike says all of this is great, but when they release a DLC with the renault RS 01 and the AI cars have this weird thing where suddenly when following them the body work just disappears! Well that is just shoddy in an otherwise great DLC, i cant drive the Ginnetta GT5s at Oulton Park as it crashes my system to dashboard, Aston GT3 also has AI with random body work disappearing...
there is basic shoddy mistakes which at best are just missed in QA but at worst i fear they are just bodged with a "well they will still buy it" attitude, because time and time again i hear "what else is there on consoles", that is why SMS need some competition and QUICK!

LOD changes? All racers do that these days. Look at the Driveclub pic and look at the state of the cars in position 1 & 2, As they get closer to you they change LOD models to make them look better. Forza is actually alot worse than PCars when it comes to this but dont kid yourself on that other racers dont do it.

 

[bleeder]

Blind apoligist? Claiming that PCars does everything better...Maybe you should read more of my posts and head on over to the official forum also

I read your post on DC last night about how amazing Driveclub is and how it's modern gaming done right...Not sure how on earth you can come to that conclusion. 30fps for a racer is horrible, only 10 cars on track is horrible, The very basic physics engine is horrible and does not touch PGR. Honestly how you can say that is beyond me and yet you claim im a Blind Apologist.

LOD changes? All racers do that these days. Look at the Driveclub pic and look at the state of the cars in position 1 & 2, As they get closer to you they change LOD models to make them look better. Forza is actually alot worse than PCars when it comes to this but dont kid yourself on that other racers dont do it.

I never noticed LOD on cars in Driveclub, haven't played it since last May but I can't say I really noticed it. Might have to pop it in to check it out again. I thought the reason why they stuck at 30fps was to maximise the visual fidelity of everything. SMS had to compromise to get close to 60fps but I really wish they'd sacrifice some other asset so the awful car LOD pops were eliminated. Immersion-breaking to me. It's definitely got worse on the newest DLCs but was always there, just check out the back of an Atom and that was a launch car.

Driveclub looks great in dry day time but excellent in the rain. Keeping the cars looking solid at any distance should be a top priority for a racing game developer but so many fail here and it's irritating for sure.

 

[UkHardcore23]

I never noticed LOD on cars in Driveclub, haven't played it since last May but I can't say I really noticed it. Might have to pop it in to check it out again. I thought the reason why they stuck at 30fps was to maximise the visual fidelity of everything. SMS had to compromise to get close to 60fps but I really wish they'd sacrifice some other asset so the awful car LOD pops were eliminated. Immersion-breaking to me. It's definitely got worse on the newest DLCs but was always there, just check out the back of an Atom and that was a launch car.

Driveclub looks great in dry day time but excellent in the rain. Keeping the cars looking solid at any distance should be a top priority for a racing game developer but so many fail here and it's irritating for sure.

Yeah it was myself that pointed it out on here in the newer DLC LOD changes got worse but Ssssh! I only praise PCars

 

[bleeder]

Yeah it was myself that pointed it out on here in the newer DLC LOD changes got worse but Ssssh! I only praise PCars

It must be a general engine issue as they've fixed some track detail pop ups in the patches. Must be not possible for them to sort out car pops. If you had to choose between car pops and track object pop ups which would it be? I think I'd still take the cars, annoying as it is.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Blind apoligist? Claiming that PCars does everything better...Maybe you should read more of my posts and head on over to the official forum also

I read your post on DC last night about how amazing Driveclub is and how it's modern gaming done right...Not sure how on earth you can come to that conclusion. 30fps for a racer is horrible, only 10 cars on track is horrible, The very basic physics engine is horrible and does not touch PGR. Honestly how you can say that is beyond me and yet you claim im a Blind Apologist.

You have literally claimed in this very thread that Pcars is better than it's competition, so I don't have to go anywhere, you've claimed Codies haven't made a good game for a whole gen, and even DC's graphics aren't as good as Pcars.

I honestly have no idea what you're on about, I've never said the words "modern gaming done right", it's just not something I would say lol. I've praised the things Evolution have done well with Driveclub, and they absolutely have done many things well.

You can't pick a couple of things out and claim that the whole game is horrible just because of a couple of downsides. It's physics aren't horrible, they are arcadey, and aren't meant to be simulation. As far as arcade games go, DC has very good physics, even Darin Ganji said as much.

Having 30fps isn't horrible, but it obviously doesn't provide the fluidity of 60fps. However, Pcars on console launched in such a state that it sat around mid 30s fluctuating wildly anyway, which is far more noticeable than a solid 30. Although, thankfully, at least on PS4, the frame rate is much more stable now.

Driveclub has 12 cars on track, not 10. Not sure how you could miss that, considering how much time you reckon you spent on it. Anyway, 12 cars is plenty for arcade racing on point to point roads. It was obviously a design decision that was made so as to avoid AI issues, and to leave headroom for other things. As I've said already, Pcars also has some compromises that were made to accommodate what they wanted to achieve. The difference is Driveclub works bug free exactly as intended, while Pcars has more bugs than every GT and Forza game ever made all combined. I also, once again, say this as a Pcars fan.

So now you're are putting words in my mouth to argue with, lol. I have made far more complimentary posts about Pcars than I have about Driveclub anyway, the difference is I'm not the one sitting here claiming one game does everything the best.

LOD changes? All racers do that these days. Look at the Driveclub pic and look at the state of the cars in position 1 & 2, As they get closer to you they change LOD models to make them look better. Forza is actually alot worse than PCars when it comes to this but dont kid yourself on that other racers dont do it.

The big difference there is the Pcars LOD pop-in happens only a couple of metres in front of the player. It's painfully obvious, and I think everyone knows that some other games have some noticeable pop-in, especially last gen games. The issue has been raised numerous times on the official forum it's so bad in Pcars. Even the track LODs pop-in right in front of you. Watch the detail in front of you when driving next time you play, the shadows and textures and everything on the track all pop-in only a few metres ahead of the player.

Edit: I just went to look for this mysterious post of mine from last night where I hail DC as "modern gaming done right", and as I thought, the only post I've made in the DC sub-forum lately was today when I said it's been gathering dust on my shelf due to the lack of Fanatec support... I think you've gotten me mixed up with someone.