Patch Release Notes and Discussion Thread

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Mike_grpA
You have literally claimed in this very thread that Pcars is better than it's competition, so I don't have to go anywhere, you've claimed Codies haven't made a good game for a whole gen, and even DC's graphics aren't as good as Pcars.

I honestly have no idea what you're on about, I've never said the words "modern gaming done right", it's just not something I would say lol. I've praised the things Evolution have done well with Driveclub, and they absolutely have done many things well.

You can't pick a couple of things out and claim that the whole game is horrible just because of a couple of downsides. It's physics aren't horrible, they are arcadey, and aren't meant to be simulation. As far as arcade games go, DC has very good physics, even Darin Ganji said as much.

Having 30fps isn't horrible, but it obviously doesn't provide the fluidity of 60fps. However, Pcars on console launched in such a state that it sat around mid 30s fluctuating wildly anyway, which is far more noticeable than a solid 30. Although, thankfully, at least on PS4, the frame rate is much more stable now.

Driveclub has 12 cars on track, not 10. Not sure how you could miss that, considering how much time you reckon you spent on it. Anyway, 12 cars is plenty for arcade racing on point to point roads. It was obviously a design decision that was made so as to avoid AI issues, and to leave headroom for other things. As I've said already, Pcars also has some compromises that were made to accommodate what they wanted to achieve. The difference is Driveclub works bug free exactly as intended, while Pcars has more bugs than every GT and Forza game ever made all combined. I also, once again, say this as a Pcars fan.

So now you're are putting words in my mouth to argue with, lol. I have made far more complimentary posts about Pcars than I have about Driveclub anyway, the difference is I'm not the one sitting here claiming one game does everything the best.



The big difference there is the Pcars LOD pop-in happens only a couple of metres in front of the player. It's painfully obvious, and I think everyone knows that some other games have some noticeable pop-in, especially last gen games. The issue has been raised numerous times on the official forum it's so bad in Pcars. Even the track LODs pop-in right in front of you. Watch the detail in front of you when driving next time you play, the shadows and textures and everything on the track all pop-in only a few metres ahead of the player.
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My bad when i checked your posts that "Modern Gaming Done Right" came up but it turns out you only liked that post.

Codies didnt make a good game last gen they were all average compared to what they had done in the PS2 and before era's.

DC has good physics? Haha...Behave. The physics still lag behind a 12 year old PGR 2 which is still the pinnacle these arcade games try to beat. Horizon has been the closest so far.

PCars only went down to 30 in heavy rain conditions the vast majority of the time it was 60fps. No idea now as DF have not done an updated article.

As i said i've not played it since PCars came out so thats what 9 months? Im sure you can forgive me for being a whole 2 cars out. 12 cars is still not great. ps i completed the full game with all stars and with all DLC up until PCars ;)

I've not said PCars does everything better, I do believe AC has better physics and a better FFB model. iRacing a better online mode infact GT has a better online mode. Forza more content (more useless content right enough which takes away from other parts of the game)
 
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bleeder
It must be a general engine issue as they've fixed some track detail pop ups in the patches. Must be not possible for them to sort out car pops. If you had to choose between car pops and track object pop ups which would it be? I think I'd still take the cars, annoying as it is.
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I'd rather they just went with a lower poly model of car that didnt need to change.
 
In related news I was contact by Bruno from QA again about my 'can't save launch car setups at Lotus DLC tracks' issue who tells me my save file isn't corrupted and that there will be a fix in patch 8.0. Not that there might be a fix but there will be a fix. Looking forward to that!

Edit: I'm sure he won't mind me quoting him:

"Yeah it's due to the savegame, seems like if you had one since release and added DLC the info on the number of tracks wouldn't update. The fix will be coming on Patch 8.0 ."
 
UkHardcore23
My bad when i checked your posts that "Modern Gaming Done Right" came up but it turns out you only liked that post.

Codies didnt make a good game last gen they were all average compared to what they had done in the PS2 and before era's.

DC has good physics? Haha...Behave.

PCars only went down to 30 in heavy rain conditions the vast majority of the time it was 60fps. No idea now as DF have not done an updated article.

As i said i've not played it since PCars came out so thats what 9 months? Im sure you can forgive me for being a whole 2 cars out. 12 cars is still not great.

I've not said PCars does everything better, I do believe AC has better physics and a better FFB model. iRacing a better online mode infact GT has a better online mode. Forza more content (more useless content right enough which takes away from other parts of the game)
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Codies did make good games last gen, actually a couple of their games were very good when you consider the tripe that some devs were pushing out. I do agree their PS2 titles were better for their time though, but that was the golden era of codies racing games. Race Driver 3 was the Pcars of it's time on console, except without the bugs. That and GT4 were the best racing games on PS2 IMO.

DC has very good arcade physics... I'm not sure what you think is wrong with it, and I'm certainly not claiming it to be a sim, but compared to other arcade games the physics feel much more natural, and the cars at least have some weight to them. Compare that to NFS games or The Crew, not to sims or simcades.

DF showed Pcars dipping to high 20s in their stress test on consoles. On X1 it rarely went higher than mid 40s. As I said, the frame rates are much more stable now, especially on PS4, where it does actually sit mostly at or close to 60 as you say. At launch it was pretty messy.

12 cars for the type of racing in DC is plenty IMO. On the closed circuits in the game you notice it, but the majority of the tracks are road courses and p2ps, and on those type of roads, having too many AI would start to cause issues. Hell, on Pcars the AI fails to navigate some chicanes and corners when you put too many of them on track together.

On your last point, well I apologise for that, as it seemed here you were trying to basically claim the game does no wrong. Though I do agree on those points.

Edit: @bleeder, that's good news. The classic stuff is some of my favourite content in Pcars.
 
UkHardcore23
Blind apoligist? Claiming that PCars does everything better...Maybe you should read more of my posts and head on over to the official forum also ;)

I read your post on DC last night about how amazing Driveclub is and how it's modern gaming done right...Not sure how on earth you can come to that conclusion. 30fps for a racer is horrible, only 10 cars on track is horrible, The very basic physics engine is horrible and does not touch PGR. Honestly how you can say that is beyond me and yet you claim im a Blind Apologist.

LOD changes? All racers do that these days. Look at the Driveclub pic and look at the state of the cars in position 1 & 2, As they get closer to you they change LOD models to make them look better. Forza is actually alot worse than PCars when it comes to this but dont kid yourself on that other racers dont do it.
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No i mean the whole of the rear body on the RS 01 on both xbox and ps4 disappears on and off same with GT3 aston, i can live with it like the rest of the shambles, but its there and its a bodge job of epic proportions because Ian Bell is a bit of a wide boy.
The LOD issue is there but that really dosn't bother me as much, but point is whether i just ignore it and deal with it wont change the fact i will mention it even if it makes the hardcore SMS cling ons cry.
 
dopedog
No i mean the whole of the rear body on the RS 01 on both xbox and ps4 disappears on and off same with GT3 aston, i can live with it like the rest of the shambles, but its there and its a bodge job of epic proportions because Ian Bell is a bit of a wide boy.
The LOD issue is there but that really dosn't bother me as much, but point is whether i just ignore it and deal with it wont change the fact i will mention it even if it makes the hardcore SMS cling ons cry.
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Honestly can say i never seen the rear body disappear on any cars and i've ran a number of races with the RS 01, Im not sure Ian Bell set out to make cars body parts disappear either.

SMS Cling on's? Wtf :lol:
 
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UkHardcore23
Honestly can say i never seen the rear body disappear on any cars and i've ran a number of races with the RS 01, Im not sure Ian Bell set out to make cars body parts disappear either.

SMS Cling on's? Wtf :lol:
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Go over to the official forum they are literally hanging off Ian Bells backside. Someone posted a video on official forum but it got sunk, i'll try to find it.

Can you even bring yourself to admit any issues with PCars or are you one of the "well i'd never had that issue must be you" bunch?
 
Sounds like you have personal issues with Ian Bell. Maybe you should take them up with him instead of going on about him ;)

That video you posted...No wonder he got no reply's talk about a minor issue ffs and one i've not seen so far in my game.
 
UkHardcore23
Sounds like you have personal issues with Ian Bell. Maybe you should take them up with him instead of going on about him ;)

That video you posted...No wonder he got no reply's talk about a minor issue ffs and one i've not seen so far in my game.
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Why add that wink, if we were talking down the pub would you of actually winked at me at that point? Bloody annoys me the use of winks online..

OK at least I know where your coming from, if i couldn't guess already. And this folks is why games will continue to be released with bugs and PCars 1 won't ever be fully fixed.
Glad your one of the lucky ones who got the perfect PCars game, was it like Charlie and the Chocolate factory where SMS only released 100 golden copies of PCars which fully worked with no screen tears, frame rate drops, perfect replays no crashes to dash etc etc...lucky you. I just wish everyone could of got your version...
 
dopedog
Why add that wink, if we were talking down the pub would you of actually winked at me at that point? Bloody annoys me the use of winks online..

OK at least I know where your coming from, if i couldn't guess already. And this folks is why games will continue to be released with bugs and PCars 1 won't ever be fully fixed.
Glad your one of the lucky ones who got the perfect PCars game, was it like Charlie and the Chocolate factory where SMS only released 100 golden copies of PCars which fully worked with no screen tears, frame rate drops, perfect replays no crashes to dash etc etc...lucky you. I just wish everyone could of got your version...
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Nearly Right... i had a few crashes to the dashboard around Patch 2 or 3 i think it was ;)
 
LOD's are very obvious in replays, Ian Bell said they are probably going to drop them back to 30 fps. If it improves the quality of the replays (and fixes the LODs as well) then I'm all for it. Apparently competitors replays are 30fps so there's no need to go for 60fps in replays if they look so poor and can't be done properly.
 
UkHardcore23
Nearly Right... i had a few crashes to the dashboard around Patch 2 or 3 i think it was ;)
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Stop winking at me.

Amazing how even Ian Bell is now admitting the failures of PCars 1 (mainly because he's now got the ball rolling for selling us PCars 2, funny how he didn't mention this earlier isn't it?) but his attack dogs still love to make people feel like its 'just them' with issues.
 
dopedog
Stop winking at me.

Amazing how even Ian Bell is now admitting the failures of PCars 1 (mainly because he's now got the ball rolling for selling us PCars 2, funny how he didn't mention this earlier isn't it?) but his attack dogs still love to make people feel like its 'just them' with issues.
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It's good that he's admitting the failures instead of being ignorant to them. Should help make the next game better. There must be plenty of devs out there who would never hear a bad thing said about their game or admit flaws. Remember, SMS have been very open with the community. I only hope they learn not to tell us false promises and don't make announcements that aren't 100% set in stone. No one will stand for that when the next game comes around.
 
CHEN255
LOD's are very obvious in replays, Ian Bell said they are probably going to drop them back to 30 fps. If it improves the quality of the replays (and fixes the LODs as well) then I'm all for it. Apparently competitors replays are 30fps so there's no need to go for 60fps in replays if they look so poor and can't be done properly.
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Yeah that will be for Pcars 2 though iirc. 30fps looks better for replays anyway. It helps it to look like a tv broadcast, which are always done at 30fps or below. Gameplay is always better the higher the fps, but 60fps in replays is just wasting resources.
 
Mike_grpA
Yeah that will be for Pcars 2 though iirc. 30fps looks better for replays anyway. It helps it to look like a tv broadcast, which are always done at 30fps or below. Gameplay is always better the higher the fps, but 60fps in replays is just wasting resources.
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I thought live programs were at 60 fps and recorded programs were 30.

But yeah the replays would be better at a reduced level.

Edit from Wikipedia:
  • 24p is a progressive format and is now widely adopted by those planning on transferring a video signal to film. Film and video makers use 24p even if they are not going to transfer their productions to film, simply because of the on-screen "look" of the (low) frame rate, which matches native film. When transferred to NTSC television, the rate is effectively slowed to 23.976 FPS (24×1000÷1001 to be exact), and when transferred to PAL or SECAM it is sped up to 25 FPS. 35 mm movie cameras use a standard exposure rate of 24 FPS, though many cameras offer rates of 23.976 FPS for NTSC television and 25 FPS for PAL/SECAM. The 24 FPS rate became the de facto standard for sound motion pictures in the mid-1920s.[8]Practically all hand-drawn animation is designed to be played at 24 FPS. Actually hand-drawing 24 unique frames per second ("1's") is costly. Even in big budget films, usually hand-draw animation is done shooting on "2's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown twice, so only 12 unique frames per second)[12]and some animation is even drawn on "4's" (one hand-drawn frame is shown four times, so only six unique frames per second).
  • 25p is a progressive format and runs 25 progressive frames per second. This frame rate derives from the PAL television standard of 50i (or 50 interlaced fields per second). Film and television companies use this rate in 50 Hz regions for direct compatibility with television field and frame rates. Conversion for 60 Hz countries is enabled by slowing down the media to 24p then converting to 60 Hz systems using pulldown. While 25p captures half the temporal resolution or motion that normal 50i PAL registers, it yields a higher vertical spatial resolution per frame. Like 24p, 25p is often used to achieve "cine"-look, albeit with virtually the same motion artifacts. It is also better suited to progressive-scan output (e.g., on LCD displays, computer monitors and projectors) because the interlacing is absent.
  • 30p is a progressive format and produces video at 30 frames per second. Progressive (noninterlaced) scanning mimics a film camera's frame-by-frame image capture. The effects of inter-frame judder are less noticeable than 24p yet retains a cinematic-like appearance. Shooting video in 30p mode gives no interlace artifacts but can introduce judder on image movement and on some camera pans. The widescreen film process Todd-AOused this frame rate in 1954–1956.[13]
  • 48p is a progressive format and is currently being trialled in the film industry. At twice the traditional rate of 24p, this frame rate attempts to reduce motion blur and flicker found in films. Director James Cameron stated his intention to film the two sequels to his film Avatar higher than 24 frames per second to add a heightened sense of reality.[14] The first film to be filmed at 48 FPS was The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, a decision made by its director Peter Jackson.[15] At a preview screening at CinemaCon, the audience's reaction was mixed after being shown some of the film's footage at 48p, with some arguing that the feel of the footage was too lifelike (thus breaking the suspension of disbelief).[16]
  • 50i is an interlaced format and is the standard video field rate per second for PALand SECAM television.
  • 60i is an interlaced format and is the standard video field rate per second for NTSC television (e.g., in the US), whether from a broadcast signal, DVD, or home camcorder. This interlaced field rate was developed separately by Farnsworth and Zworykin in 1934,[17] and was part of the NTSC television standards mandated by the FCC in 1941. When NTSC color was introduced in 1953, the older rate of 60 fields per second was reduced by a factor of 1000/1001 to avoid interference between the chroma subcarrier and the broadcast sound carrier. (Hence the usual designation "29.97 fps" = 30 frames (60 fields)/1.001)
  • 50p/60p is a progressive format and is used in high-end HDTV systems. While it is not technically part of the ATSC or DVB broadcast standards yet, reports suggest that higher progressive frame rates will be a feature of the next-generation high-definition television broadcast standards.[18] In Europe, the EBUconsiders 1080p50 the next step future proofsystem for TV broadcasts and is encouraging broadcasters to upgrade their equipment for the future.[19] Many modern cameras can shoot video at 50p and 60p in various resolutions. YouTube allowed users to upload videos at 60fps in June 2014. YouTube also allowed full HFR videos previously uploaded before 2014.
 
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Currently how i play PCars is this:
After various losses of save data over last 6 months or so and fresh installs and start agains and since the patch 6/7 tyre debacle and the fact career has ground hog day weather..
Also going fully down the 'jack spade' FFB settings route which to ME IMO, was a dead end, i now am starting again but litterally sorting out FFB how it feels good to me, so no SOPs no BODY or 'GUT', just playing with the top sliders and beacuse of that i working through each section , road, touring, GT etc and doing like few laps on few of my favorite tracks...
I'm loving it, once i am happy with FFB i will then do like a 5 lapper with AI.
Its great, and for a game that cost me £25 i'm happy with that, would like custom championships but that is withheld till PCars 2 and i'd like a better career but again we are stuck with that, so its now just a good game to mess about on..
Now thats fine, but i can understand why some folks want more from it.
But anyway thats pretty much how i play it, added to that my game time is limited and online i avoid.
Hopefully PCars will be more of a 'game' but as it stands without custom championships i'll just treat this like a great way to blast around on some favorite tracks now, pretty much what i ended up using SHIFT 2 for, the game became making the cars drive properly, like the FFB has now become the 'game' to me to find the perfect feeling...
Funny old game but i enjoy it.
 


For entertainment only :P not sure what's funnier, the drift setup shown or how the car can still be driven in game or the "drift" driving he demonstrate. The rain 'drifting" looks real funky, like there's something holding the car :P

" Do not touch the steering. Just let it go, let it go " - best advice he's given that works for his car and crazy setup :crazy: :lol:

Enjoy the laughter :cheers:
 
Funniest thing i ever saw/read connected to PCars was a guy over on official forum for PCars who was using a controller and all this hate was coming at controller users from the PC wheel elite snobs and he came on and was going on about how he agrees with the wheel users these people who can't cope with PCars on controller should go play forza, he was saying he was great on controller and had no issues and said he was using jack spades settings and loved that he could feel the SOP working...........ermmm O K....you can't feel ANY ffb on a controller.

I'm a wheel user but on the official forum they tie themselves in knots, one minute they say 'its a sim you shouldn't use a controller get a wheel its easier' so you point out that hey if its easier with a wheel then these guys ripping up the leader boards with controllers must be legends! then they go "oh but controllers are cheating, you dont drive a real car with a controller"
They are all over the place and so keen to defend the game at ALL COSTS that they tie themselves up then resort to abuse and ganging up.
For example patch 6 they were crying saying SMS dumbed it down again for pad players in patch 7, so you point out that pre patch 6 the game we've been playing was dumbed down then for 7 months! Then they cry get angry and then say nope PCars has the best sim physics EVER!!!....then few posts later "SMS please return to patch 6 stop trying to listen to the pad arcade players on consoles"

I know of at least 4 people who don't even play PCars much anymore who just go on the forum to wind the usual people up.

These PC snobs on the official forum cant accept that without console support mainly PS4 then this game would of sunk by now up against the hitters on PC gaming. Yet they slag off 'console' users at any opportunity and that's driven on by the MODS and Devs and Ian..
People on xbox 1 talk of switching to PS4 and PS4 talk of switching to PC yet in all circumstances you pop into the technical issues section in each format and the SAME issues are prevalent IN ALL formats!
Nutters.
If and when i get a gaming PC i'd get PCars because its cheap but i'd be mainly getting it for AC and race room.
 
dopedog
Funniest thing i ever saw/read connected to PCars was a guy over on official forum for PCars who was using a controller and all this hate was coming at controller users from the PC wheel elite snobs and he came on and was going on about how he agrees with the wheel users these people who can't cope with PCars on controller should go play forza, he was saying he was great on controller and had no issues and said he was using jack spades settings and loved that he could feel the SOP working...........ermmm O K....you can't feel ANY ffb on a controller.

I'm a wheel user but on the official forum they tie themselves in knots, one minute they say 'its a sim you shouldn't use a controller get a wheel its easier' so you point out that hey if its easier with a wheel then these guys ripping up the leader boards with controllers must be legends! then they go "oh but controllers are cheating, you dont drive a real car with a controller"
They are all over the place and so keen to defend the game at ALL COSTS that they tie themselves up then resort to abuse and ganging up.
For example patch 6 they were crying saying SMS dumbed it down again for pad players in patch 7, so you point out that pre patch 6 the game we've been playing was dumbed down then for 7 months! Then they cry get angry and then say nope PCars has the best sim physics EVER!!!....then few posts later "SMS please return to patch 6 stop trying to listen to the pad arcade players on consoles"

I know of at least 4 people who don't even play PCars much anymore who just go on the forum to wind the usual people up.

These PC snobs on the official forum cant accept that without console support mainly PS4 then this game would of sunk by now up against the hitters on PC gaming. Yet they slag off 'console' users at any opportunity and that's driven on by the MODS and Devs and Ian..
People on xbox 1 talk of switching to PS4 and PS4 talk of switching to PC yet in all circumstances you pop into the technical issues section in each format and the SAME issues are prevalent IN ALL formats!
Nutters.
If and when i get a gaming PC i'd get PCars because its cheap but i'd be mainly getting it for AC and race room.
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I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. We do have this thread available for all venting:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-great-project-cars-whinging-and-crying-thread.327084/

You can whinge to your heart's desire without any concern of someone, say... pointing out that your post is very much like your complaint... all over the place.

The only benefits I see from SMS forum are announcements from SMS and interaction with SMS. I have all the community support and community interaction I need from :gtplanet:.
:gtpflag:
 
OooAhh Cantona
I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. We do have this thread available for all venting:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-great-project-cars-whinging-and-crying-thread.327084/

You can whinge to your heart's desire without any concern of someone, say... pointing out that your post is very much like your complaint... all over the place.

The only benefits I see from SMS forum are announcements from SMS and interaction with SMS. I have all the community support and community interaction I need from :gtplanet:.
:gtpflag:
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Sorry i wonder why the drift video didn't having you jumping into action, or countless other posts? Very odd...have you read the last few pages here?

So anyway whats your user name over on the official forum?
 
dopedog
Sorry i wonder why the drift video didn't having you jumping into action, or countless other posts? Very odd...have you read the last few pages here?

So anyway whats your user name over on the official forum?
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I did see the drift video. Seems straightforward to me: "for entertainment only" and nothing else.

I don't have a profile on SMS forum. I'm not sure what your point is. It's a public forum where I can read posts without an account. I agree with you that there are users and threads all over the place on official forum. Hence, I leave them be and I stick with GTP. That was my point to you.

Let's not get this thread too off topic. You're welcome to rant about me in the Great Crying and Whinging Thread if you wish.
 
OooAhh Cantona
I did see the drift video. Seems straightforward to me: "for entertainment only" and nothing else.

I don't have a profile on SMS forum. I'm not sure what your point is. It's a public forum where I can read posts without an account. I agree with you that there are users and threads all over the place on official forum. Hence, I leave them be and I stick with GTP. That was my point to you.

Let's not get this thread too off topic. You're welcome to rant about me in the Great Crying and Whinging Thread if you wish.
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Sorry last 4 odd pages were talking about issues with PCars, it has that many that every thread will mention some of them, i asked about if you had a profile on official forum to see if i recognised it as one of the hardcore defenders of SMS.
No worries will get my teeth into the link you sent, cheers.
 
Ridox2JZGTE


For entertainment only :P not sure what's funnier, the drift setup shown or how the car can still be driven in game or the "drift" driving he demonstrate. The rain 'drifting" looks real funky, like there's something holding the car :P

" Do not touch the steering. Just let it go, let it go " - best advice he's given that works for his car and crazy setup :crazy: :lol:

Enjoy the laughter :cheers:
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I'm not sure what concerns me more: The ridiculous settings he used with the flat tyres, minimum caster, and maximum positive toe, or how he was able to throw the car into corners on the handbrake with those settings in the rain and it just seemed to grip up and pull itself out of the slide :crazy:
 
Mike_grpA
I'm not sure what concerns me more: The ridiculous settings he used with the flat tyres, minimum caster, and maximum positive toe, or how he was able to throw the car into corners on the handbrake with those settings in the rain and it just seemed to grip up and pull itself out of the slide :crazy:
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His Pcars is from older version looking at the video upload time, do you reckon you can try again his setup, see if the outcome is still the same on 7.0 ? :D Particularly in the rain.
 

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