Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by Lord Protector, May 9, 2015.
Where's this then? What system? What's the issue they have confirmed?
I really don't understand all of the fuzz. I think it handles excellent with the controller... Ok, i had to tweak the settings a bit, but I found it much easier and faster to find my right settings for the DS4 than for my T300.
I think it ultimately comes down to this truth.
Many racing cars require a smooth input. On a wheel you have 900 degrees ore more of wheel lock and 2-3 inches of pedal travel. This makes modulating inputs smoothly far easier. Especially with wheel rotation, as you can have a 1:1 input ration on almost all race cars.
But a controller on the other hand has at most 1 inch travel from its centre position on the sticks and probably a similar amount on the triggers.
While you can get by on a controller getting the smoothness will take a while but won't ever be a good as a wheel and pedal set.
I've been running the ds4 running the lmp at Dubai while waiting for rest of game to download. With sensitivity turned down and aids off I'm not really having any issues, except occasionally it won't let me downshift with right thumbstick but I haven't looked into it really, just goofing around. If you start losing traction in lmp and it starts coming around on you it isn't easy to maintain drift and recover, but that's how I expect it would be in real life.
So far I am extremely satisfied with the little bit I played, but I am still very unsatisfied with developers not answering questions.
With a bit of practice I imagine it will be fairly easy to go fast with dual shock. I also played with difficulty settings and with aids it becomes very easy and almost arcade like with dual shock, similar to gt6. I like it without all the aids, but I suspect with the right aids turned on anyone will be able to play this with dual shock, if they turn steering sensitivity down. It's way to sensitive for controller out of the box.
Input and controllers issues have been confirmed and a patch has already been sent out for testing and deployment on xbox one. There's mention in one of the threads about some issues being cross platform though i couldn't tell you specifically what. The official project cars forums are more informative than gtplanet on the matter.
What part of the litany of these settings is causing the car to weave back-and-forth and back-and-forth and back-and-forth and back-and-forth?
And where is the "reset to default" button at?
And why if I set the button configuration to something I WANT, the stupid game tells me all of the buttons need to be configured? The DS4 45 buttons on it.
And where is the brightness control? Much like DriveClub, the shadows are brutal.
It's very playable with DS4 here is a link to set up DS4.
I looked on here at controller set ups before I got the game, and everyone seems to have different preferences, so I just took a few mins to find something I feel comfortable with. So far I don't see what the fuss is about, it's perfectly fine for me. Some cars are hard to control, but that's because it's realistic, not gt6, so only having the tiny amount of movement of the sticks and triggers makes it harder to make smooth inputs. I'm quickly getting smoother with the ds4 though, and I'm having a ton of fun playing the game, more fun in the first day of owning it than the years I owned gt5 and 6.
How so? The benchmark is simply that gt6 controller players can catch slides.
No one here is saying a lotus 49 is as easy to keep in check as a clio. However, when you are simply not able to control wheelspin at all, you know something is not right.
Exactly this... People need to understand, it's not that GT6 is so much more arcadish than pCARS... It's that SMS did so bad job optimizing pCARS for Dualshock... Unlike PD.
The benchmark for how a car should behave in any given situation is reality, not GT6. Take the Clio or any of the RUF's in GT6 (or any of the GT titles for that matter) as an example, what you need to do to control the reaction of these cars in GT bears no resemblance to what you need to do in reality, because GT6 doesn't model FWD and RR cars accurately at all (lift off oversteer and initial power on understeer respectively and understeer correction for both). As such how much skill you have to control a car in GT6 doesn't matter as the reaction you are using isn't the right one.
Now that's not to say that P Cars is perfect, its not, but using GT6 as a benchmark for car control 'skill' is certainly not helpful.
But you can control wheelspin in it?
That isn't what I said though. Car behaviour is not what I'm benchmarking....... It's the controller optimisation.
If the the lotus 49, or any car for that matter, had completely uncontrollable wheelspin, it would have spun out at every corner on which the traction slipped.
So you're using my answer to a question about how someone can control any car in GT6 with a controller but not in PC (one reason for which I clearly outlined above) to answer a totally different question?
While also quote-mining me to exclude a rather important qualifier:
Its not GT6, which may be part of the issue, as its not a helpful benchmark. (emphasis mine)
I would have to ask why?
You said gt6 isn't a bench mark. I said it was in terms of controller optimisation, which is what I'm pretty sure lord protector meant also, who you quoted saying gt6 isn't a bench mark. Same question.
Consider for a moment that with a wheel all cars are able to catch slides where they would in real life. The point being made here is that the ds4 cannot do the same.
No I that PC is not GT6 and as such part of the problem may be in using it as a benchmark in terms of the skills required to control cars.
In other words just because 'x' works skill wise to control a car in GT6 with a controller then it doesn't mean that 'x' will be the right thing to do in either reality or another title that does react in a manner closer to reality.
You asked me to clarify, which I did and then all you did was once again editi my post to make it fit what you want it to fit, please don't do that and then tell me what I you think intended to say!
And the point I am making is that "where they would in real life" doesn't always apply in GT6 and as such using those skills in either reality of a sim that does simulate what should happen in reality is not a good benchmark to use and may be part of the problem.
Do you actually think that "where they would in real life" and GT6 match in terms of power-on understeer in RR and lift off oversteer in FWD?
If you take time to set the controller up, it's fine though. I've been able to control wheelspin. It's hard, way harder than gt games, but in gt I could slam the throttle on a 1000bhp car with no tc and not get out of shape, so I would never use that as a benchmark for what I should expect in a sim.
Edit* I'll also add, the tyre model in gt is way too forgiving. In pCARS I've noticed the old race cars have an excellent tyre model, as the grip window is tiny, as it should be. If you don't go quick enough, the tyres will lose heat and won't ever feel grippy, if you exceed the grip, the car snaps violently, and correcting a slide in this scenario is very very hard in real life, as it is in the game. You can't just drift it around with ease like every car in gt. I like how you can get a tank slapper on!
I don't think they match, this is indeed not a suggestible benchmark. I do believe, however, that pcars should match gt6's controller usability.
For some weird reason, the thread in the Help & Info sub-forum has tumbleweeds rolling through it.
There is a thread in the WMD pCARS forum talking about setting up a "game pad". This post PERFECTLY describes what I and probably MANY of us are experiencing with this game.
So please, any of you 80,000 gurus who helped to develop this game, what is the solution??? This was NEVER fixed in Shift 2, which is why I sold it. I sold 2 extra copies of this for you to people who don't have the patence to fiddle around with CONTROLLERS settings, let alone a tuning system that is more conveluted.
For a game that is supposedly 'unplayable' with a controller, there seems to be an awful lot of very competitive times on the leaderboards being set by people using, you guessed it, controllers. Go figure.
Yeah, how come Mr. Wizard? What you are saying helps us to none whatsoever, so why don't you share your settings if you don't have any problems using a DS4...
There is a difference between setting a fast lap and having consistent, fast lap times. I'm myself currently 4th in time trial with Zonda R @ Nordschleife with a dualshock but I struggled for about an hour to get my 1st clean lap, because I needed to countersteer a little, sadly the game didn't let me to...
Which is why I said it was part of the problem, not all of it. Which is why I have also said across a number of threads that its not perfect. Which is why I was a little taken aback that you edited my comments to present them in a different light to how they were presented.
I agree that work needs to be done to make the controller options more accessible to more people and understand that you and others want to push that, but misquoting people and using those misquotes as if they were answering a totally diffrent question is not the way to do it.
I don't agree that this is exactly the same issue as Shift 2, from my own experience shift 2's biggest issue was input lag.
Now I also fully accept that for many people the controller options are not ideal and certainly agree that SMS need to put changes in place to make this more accessible, however that doesn't (as many are stating) make pCars unplayable as many (and I fall into this) are more than able to play pCars and put in consistent fast laps with a controller.
That doesn't dismiss or reduce the frustration that those who can't feel, but the totally partisan attitudes being displayed at times by both side is not going to help.
Nor are snide comments to a perfectly valid point. I understand your frustration, but don't take it out on other members, you have been here long enough to know that is simply not acceptable, regardless of the circumstances.
I'm at work right now, but I would be more than happy to post up my settings when I get a chance this evening (after work and being taxi to my kids).
Since I'm not having problems I'll be happy to provide you with my settings.
From this thread: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/dualshock-4-steering-settings.328144/#post-10693504
I'm running those settings now to great effect, on mode 3.
Previously I had a different set up on mode 2 with I think 28 steering sensitivity and advanced on with soft steering on too, and that worked well with the karts, but this one works better with normal cars.
Input lag was my problem with Shift 2 also. The physics of pCARS are nothing like Shift IMO. Test Drive: Ferrari Racing Legends also had the Shift engine, and had that horrible input lag. If it wasn't for that, I would've really liked those games, but they were a world away from where SMS has taken that engine in terms of realism.
I've been playing PCars on PS4 since release with a Fanatec wheel but thought I would try with a DS4 to see what the problems everyone was having. I tried this morning before work on the community Clio race at Brands Hatch. I didn't change any controller settings and didn't really find any issues, did a handful of laps and got within half a second of my wheel time which is a top 50 time currently. With more laps and getting used to the DS4 more I reckon I could get pretty close to my wheel time. So am I missing something, do the problems only show themselves with certain cars? Because I thought it was far from unplayable.
Yes but part of GT6's controller usability is due to it's physics which are more forgiving than pCARS and indeed reality, hence pCARS is more difficult to drive than GT6 in direct comparison. I would suggest it would be so with either a wheel or controller it's just more noticeable with a controller.
If you are used to GT6 then you kind of have to unlearn your technique to learn the ways of project CARS instead. It is driveable with a controller, it just takes some time and practice / patience. Once you 'get it' it is very rewarding, it's just a shame they didn't have some more user friendly controller presets to help make it more accessible for those that find the settings daunting.
I set mine to around these settings ^^ (page 3) and it made a big difference. Remember there are 3 slots for the controller DS4 settings you can keep and amend. I now have found what I am happy with and just use the 1 set up.
I'm finding it OK with the DS4. I've adjusted the defaults (I've always put throttle and brake onto up and down on the right stick, for me the capacity for minute adjustments is much better than when using the triggers), and I've reduced the steering sensitivity to 5. Initially the cars all steer lock-to-lock with about 5mm movement of the stick, which was asking for tinier movements than even my practiced thumbs could provide!
The key here seems to me to be about controlling oversteer. Yes it's difficult on PCARS. But it should be difficult - watch some actual racing on TV, and you'll see professional racing drivers failing to correct oversteer properly. A lot. It should be difficult, and in some cases catching it should be practically impossible.
Again, not bashing GT, I'm a huge fan and have completed all GTs, 1-6. All with the pad. But it's practically impossible for me to spin out in GT6 any more, I've played it so much, I have such familiarity with the handling model, that I can catch and control pretty much any amount of oversteer (I'm not saying I can necessarily keep everything on the actual circuit of course, but an actual spin? Nope). This to me does not seem right - there should be plenty of situations in a real cars, ways on which you could drive, in which a spin is completely unavoidable. I think GT is too forgiving on this issue.
So, for PCARS I think that my struggling to control oversteer gives me a couple of main points to deal with:
1. Have to learn to drive in a way that minimises the chance of oversteer. This seems realistic to me - I'm not a real racer, but I watch a lot on TV, have a good grasp of physics, and it seems to me that in a real race, any time you find yourself going major sideways, your chances of continuing are greatly reduced... a crash is often on the way...
2. Familiarity with the controller and the handling model. Already since starting to play last week I'm catching more. As time goes on I don't doubt that I'll maximise my ability to catch (catchable) slides. There's a big issue with over-correcting and tank-slapping on this game, but I've realised already that less input is more in this situation - try taking your thumb right off the stick - I'm sure I'll gradually build this into my standard set of reactions.
I don't think you can reasonably expect Gran Turismo expertise to immediately carry over. They are simply not the same games.
Thanks. I haven't had any issues since finding pad settings that suit my style. I'm just hoping if they patch anything, it doesn't send me back to the drawing board lol. I'm on PS4 so fingers crossed. Try to stay patient. The game in my opinion feels and drives amazingly well. Best console racing experience I've had (I'm a big petrolhead/motorsport fan).
Very strange, comments from no problems to un-driveable. Note, I don't have a PS4 so I can't comment myself, only TX wheel or Xbox gamepad on PC.
I honestly think though that there are "many" long time Gran Turismo gamers that have those controls and physics entrenched in their muscle memory. Anything else feels wrong. I race many PC sims (and some console racers) but because I don't spend a lot of time on any one I don't get too accustom to a particular feel (I don't get good either ) Just a hunch to explain the wide range of opinions.