PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    The problem with that is that a dirty driver rams you, he gets SR down for contact.
    You get SR Down for contact, then SR down for leaving track, and perhaps SR down for hitting an obstacle if the right place.
    So you are punished 3 times for something the dirty driver did. And so the dirty drivers are in high SR and the rest is not...

    If the cones are sending people airborne again they have just put back an old subsystem again. That was removed quiet some time ago
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  2. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,476
    This is why I switched from RS01 to Stang on B race.
    Power car TCS3 ABS DEFAULT.
    People wanna play bumper cars? Lol That’s what I’m setup for. :)
    What’s funny is when they try to go dirty in say a Beetle vs the Mustang...It’s hilarious actually. If they go too far I send them off track...lol
    I will do whatever it takes to ruin the guys race that tried or did ruin mine.
    Every. Single. Time.
    The system doesn’t serve out justice. I do.
    To me it’s part of public gaming.
     
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  3. JudegeBerry

    JudegeBerry

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    No need to read 178 pages. Keep it simple and just assign blame to all parties in a collision equally. Been reading up on Iracing of late and as I understand it that is what they do. GTSport DR and SR borrowed their ideas anyway - KISS!
     
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  4. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    KISS-EXACTLY!
    Before anyone reads me and just thinks I’m in a bad mood or something look... F5A31572-5129-437B-B1EA-B84CE18E9C4E.jpeg D2597FCC-6AC0-4944-A373-A36864260D45.jpeg CAF884BF-85CA-4ACB-BD65-F05AC86D3279.jpeg 65FB6953-2627-4922-87B9-72F7A2DE4EB7.jpeg

    That main acct...I used to be a huge supporter of sr dr system, but it keeps getting worse.
    It took a lot of effort and study and practice and commitment for me to rank up, in my first driving game since Ridge Racer PS1.
    The alt came later, gave up on it after getting rammed into the wall at Interlagos while cleanly overtaking a big name player.
    I had waited several laps, saved my tires, he got loose on that last uphill left leading onto the start finish straight...I pulled inside with at least a car width between us and had momentum and he viciously slammed my car into the wall bounced off me and went ahead then post race tried to feed me some garbage line not to dive.
    WTF BUD I could have dove anytime the last 3 laps I was on your ASS. I waited to pass clean idiot.
    I’ve seen this type of behavior repeated over and over in this game and I believe the root cause is this disfunctional rule and rating system.
    If it simply logged all contact equally penalized all involved it would be a million times better.
    There’s no way it makes any sense that I can sit here on a weekend and have my ranking go E D to A S to B B within a couple hours.
    It’s meaningless and inane.
    PLUS ITS UNFAIR TO A SAY C S DRIVER TO RACE ME
    IM TAKING THEIR CHANCE TO WIN
    My skill as a driver doesn’t change from C dr to A DR in a few races so why does my ranking?
    It’s NONSENSE!
    The gameplay itself is tremendous imo, but without effective rules there really is no game is there?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  5. Tea_Leaves

    Tea_Leaves

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    853
    Yep, it's what I implied. It works for iRacing and other devs so why not PD. From the beginning PD wanted a tried and tested system. Borrowed iRacing's, people complained and here's what we have.

    A return to shared blame is probably not going to happen, at least for GT Sport. If stewarding from World Tour events is to go by (and perhaps under FIA's directive), they want blame assigned instead of shared. If the system returned to 2018's, all tweaks until now would be for moot. It's clear PD are unwilling to do that or admit to mistakes.
     
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  6. barak181

    barak181

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    Again, the dreaded SR down arrow. I swear, the SR system is killing me more than the actual penalty system.

    I agree with no one getting a penalty in this situation, it's just a messy racing incident. But giving me a SR down for getting spun after I lifted to avoid a collision? Not to mention that this whole thing was created by a known bug in the game?!

     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  7. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,476
    The bottom line is that idea of blame HAS FAILED.
    It’s never been done effectively before.
    For me that means NO GT7
    NO PS5
    I won’t go PC either tho.

    It doesn’t matter what better sound or eye candy or physics a PS5 can do at all to me.

    If this is how they want online matchmaking then I will avoid wasting money on their products.

    They have SOOOO MUCH DATA to go on to develop this...
    Think about it.
    Data from every single race online over the course of several years now in a game that’s online 24-7...

    AND THIS IS THE RESULT?

    Seriously. The game doesn’t even have an option to show on replay why the penalty or sr down was given.

    How the heck is anyone supposed to know wth is going on?

    So we see the result most people just ignore the sr dr completely. Others actively cheat since it’s so badly done.

    I wish they could explain why they don’t spend any money developing the RULES of their online racing game beyond “don’t do anything that makes you look bad”

    If I were Sony or Toyota or Michelin I’d instruct PD to spend a bit and fix the sr dr system right or I’d pull my brand out of the game maybe switch to Forza or something I dunno...

    At the end of the day would you play a game of chess for example if your opponent could simply grab your Queen off the board out of turn and you couldn’t do anything about it?

    Games need rules. All the great eye candy and what not looks great, but the rules of competition are the foundation that online racing is built on.

    Please POLYPHONY DIGITAL

    STOP BEING CHEAP INVEST SOME MONEY AND MAKE A DR SR SYSTEM THSTS INDISTRY LEADING.
    What you have now sucks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  8. fisheye

    fisheye

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    269
    Two cars on a different apex into a corner, one gets in the way of the other and gets knocked off the track with a 4 second penalty, the other goes on with no penalty even if it's accidental. I almost stopped on the track to let him go past me with the 4 second penalty, after he served the penalty I held back another 4 seconds because the penalty was wrong. And... every car running over a cone on the track jumps 5 feet in the air.
     
  9. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    The penalty system is ridiculous, let us race!

     
  10. ASH32

    ASH32

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    This is why we can't race with no penalty system.



    It actually does it's job here only for WBB to fight with the penalized car instead of just waiting until the penalty zone, so of course they get a dumb penalty (even if it thinks they need one how is it 3 seconds, RNG?) Then of course the dirty driver punts them off and whilst they do get a 4 second penalty it's not enough and WBB is still behind them and only falls further back on the last lap. :ouch:

    GtSport lesson here, if the penalty system works take it, don't push your luck. ;)


    As for this though god knows what the system was doing, not that anything will totally protect against these kind of drivers.



    First of all the Spanish driver cuts two corners and in doing so wipes out another car, they get a 0.5 second corner cut penalty that's it. :lol: Then the French driver accidently bumps them (and gets a penalty) but they take revenge causing chaos, including a penalty for the German for being bumped from behind as they try to re-group.

    If you come across this Spanish driver I'd suggest watching out, they spent all race out of control, often running off track. and bumping other cars and getting penalties and finished 18th.

    One final one.



    The white car gets a corner cut penalty but the other car is still given a 1 second penalty for "blocking" (being run into), the contact is so minimal, it's nonsense, the other car cut the corner which is why it happened, it even penalizes it for it. :lol:


    :gtplanet::cheers:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
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  11. Leovizzz

    Leovizzz

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    I think this sentence defines Gran Turismo games since idk, GT5? You have the finest driving experience on any console, the best graphics for every generation but you can do nothing with them because the online experience and career structure/difficulty designs are ****.

    And tbh I have no hopes of GT7 getting on the right track
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  12. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,476
    Not bad for a guy new to Gran Turismo eh?
    :). I think that it’s time to admit also that the FIA carrot dangle world tour should no longer define the online matchmaking.
    In an effective system imo, the more skilled drivers would be separated from less skilled.
    If the system worked properly, clean drivers would simply never get matched with children slamming off walls pedal pinned to the floor.
    If it worked, over time, the better you drove, the less BS you would see.

    I think FIA is fine, for the FIA part of online.
    The best players in the game and any player really should have NO RISK of FIA point loss in daily races.
    There’s literal so many things to do that are more important than redoing the menu structure for gt7 or adding “performance parts”. or some big single player offline campaign.
    I mean if that’s GT7, they might as well have no online at all and keep the 2 titles going forward imo.

    They say “DRIVING IS FOR EVERYONE”

    But without good ratings and structure, there’s no place in the game for more mature skilled players who drive clean, even if they aren’t the fastest.
    Drivers who stay clean and race dailies should never be matched up with bashers.
    Your rating shouldn’t drop in half after a year of clean play after one bad race.
    If anything they should impose a next race grid penalty in that case and forfeit the players current qual time.
    So let’s say you are in an A S lobby and some player hits a few guys off, having a bad day or whatever...
    Instead of ranking him down so he can go beat up on lower ranked players and ruin their races...
    What you do is keep him or her matched at his or her rank, but forfeit their q time. (Force them to qual again). AND impose a grid time penalty in their next race.
    So next race they are matched into the same skill room, BUT starting from last, with their accumulated time penalty ALSO imposed at race start.
    So say they had ten seconds of pens...Next race they start last and have to wait ten seconds before starting

    I mean there’s literally a million simple things that could be done to improve this current debacle.
    I stand by my words from before...The current sr dr system is an embarrassment to the great Japanese world leading companies with their names on GTS.

    If the SR DR setup worked, and FIA was completely separate ranking and points wise from dailies, then GTS would own and dominate online racing period.
    If good drivers could hop on into a daily, be pretty darn certain it’s be clean, and KNOW it wouldn’t affect their FIA STATUS AT ALL!
    Then you wouldn’t see so many good players moving on from this game.
    Guess what, a lot of those players PD is losing are VERY skilled, and have plenty of money to buy consoles peripherals, influence their friends to join etc...
    How they can figure patronizing us drivers with a debacle of a rating system is acceptable I will never understand.
    I guess they don’t like making money???
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  13. Tea_Leaves

    Tea_Leaves

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    853
    I mean, I'm not disagreeing. I've posted multiple times advocating shared fault and PD's inability to develop a system assigning blame correctly. I'm explaining where I think PD stand and the unlikelihood of them switching back.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
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  14. fisheye

    fisheye

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    269
    I'm done until this update is rolled back or made into something better. It benefits the cheaters.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  15. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,476
    To me it’s such simple things that could improve online cleanliness so much.

    For example, let’s just take this one basic fundamental aspect- BRAKING POINTS.
    The game has marked with two cones and also has a flashing indicator for when to brake.
    To ME knowing braking areas is very very basic, SO imo missing them AND contacting a car ahead should be a very very serious sr down.
    For example car behind me has zero brake input at the 2 cone point. They go too deep and punt my car a little so I run wide of apex. To me as a car behind, failing to brake on time then HITTING my car should be a severe sr infraction.
    If you’re very skilled at braking and brake late fine-as long as you don’t hit anyone.
    I don’t see what’s complicated about it.
    If you brake on time and then hit ok not as severe, but missing a braking point seems so simple to identify.
    No one decent wants to play when people they are matched with can ram them with little to no penalty in braking areas.
    I mean am I going crazy or isn’t that super simple?

    Or like your car is hit by a car sliding sideways or perpendicular to the track
    The car doing that should get a severe sr down or incident logged to their sr.
    Drivers that repeatedly do these mistakes should simply never get to race those who rarely make these errors.
    Screw FIA, dailies should be fun fair competition not cutthroat kill or be killed have to get a ranking for a world tour you’ll never join anyhow.
    These are simple ideas. Aren’t they?

    Edit
    Imo there’s no reason at all Gran Turismo Sport should not become the go to platform for 99.9 percent of the worlds online racers.
    EXCEPT
    The deficiencies in the SR DR and matchmaking.
    Imo there’s more than enough depth in the game to keep even very experienced and fast sim guys interested,
    They leave because the safety rating and speed rating is a joke, that’s all.
    This title should be able to cover all abilities but in order to, it needs a real system of sr and matchmaking.
    Quality experienced sim racers are not going to play if all that happens when they go online are missed braking points punts and divebombs.
    Imagine if the SR system were almost flawless.
    I’d bet tons more skilled people would play.
    For beginners everything’s fine, but to keep good players long term you need to give them matchmaking that eliminates unskilled dirty players from their races.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  16. Tea_Leaves

    Tea_Leaves

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    853
    Knowledge in this game is in-depth, it's virtually all there. Take the system at SR E, it identifies exactly when a car is perpendicular to the driving line and failing to slow down inside a braking zone because it will ghost. I don't understand why this knowledge isn't translated to all SRs. If someone loses control, sideways to the track and you hit them, you're the only one responsible. If translated over that the car would need to have ghosted, SR reduction for them.

    This is why you come across erratic drivers at SR S who miss braking points or slide across the track, they're not always punished and victims as a result of their driving are punished instead, in some cases. So not a surprise they'll continue driving this way. There should had been licence tests and a track competence rating (similar to Assetto Corsa's) to make the SR rating more deep than it actually is.
     
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  17. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,476
    Yep, DR is more track based. My point is that even within the prePS5 hardware realm there’s an awful lot of simple things that are missing.
    Um kinda like the ‘backbone’ of the game.
    Jmo but the graphics are good enough on ps4 pro. Sound is ok but Codemasters DR2 like sound would be great.
    What’s missing is the ACC like rating system.
    I don’t even think it needs to be as complex as ACC, it just needs to have something more than a half assed joke of a system.
     
  18. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens

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    I guess I need to eat my words again. I didn't think it possible for the penalty system to be able to get worse, yet it did, again. DR/SR ranges are all mixed up as well. All day long I'm thinking "What are you doing down here in D/C"

    - Penalty for getting a car rammed into you, check
    - Penalty for a car lagging into you, check
    - Penalty for getting pushed off, check
    - Penalty for touching a brake checker, check
    - Penalty for a car unghosting while inside you car, check
    - Penalty for getting hit from behind, check
    - Penalty for getting bumped into a wall, double check with bonus wall penalty

    I've already had a DR reset today, went back to SR.B now down to SR.C again. All meaningless, same messed up spread of skill and speed everywhere. Matchmaking may as well be random.

    The track is still fun (N24) great to be racing again. But I'm dropping this game like a hot potato as soon as the Nordschleife is off the roster. There are still great people to race although the frequency is low nowadays. One race in SR.D I was swapping positions with another fast driver for 2nd place, leaving room, waiting to rejoin the track again when going wide in the heat of the battle to let the other pass and continue racing. Unfortunately the penalty system ended it half a lap before the end when my opponent got a penalty. Nothing intentional, just a lag rub.
     
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  19. barak181

    barak181

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    I've been saying that one almost since I started racing Sports Mode. They should create some amalgam of the single player campaign mode and online sports mode. Lock certain racing series until certain licensing exams have been passed.
     
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  20. Tea_Leaves

    Tea_Leaves

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    853
    And go one further by reenacting driving etiquette scenarios in-game. Passing safely, when to give space, avoiding contact, braking within close proximity, respecting opposition and solidifying racing rules to teach the rights and wrongs. It's clear 2 short videos were not enough. Place people in those scenarios and failure to pass, no Sport Mode.
     
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  21. Kalder

    Kalder

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    Almost as if he has hacked the game and disabled penalties for himself, or it was just the game deciding that this was all fair play. The others just shouldn't have been in his way.
     
  22. Leovizzz

    Leovizzz

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    The good ones just gave up on this ****, there are a bunch of other games offering better experiences, both sim and arcade racers
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  23. Trone_Colby

    Trone_Colby

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    517
    Here’s a stupid penalty that cost me second place. I was overtaking to take second and the defender turned into me twice. It seems like I got some kind of force field because somehow he spun out hard. We all know it takes a lot of effort to take out an FF car, let alone spin out with one. It’s unreal
     
  24. Redneckchef

    Redneckchef Premium

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    I dont have video of it, but I had a shocking disaster of a race on the Nord last night. I was losing my groove and getting all over a bit, but had a fast guy behind me. I mean all over me, and early lap 1. When it got to a point I could comfortably give them room to get by they had 6 seconds of penalties. And picked up another 2 as he drove by without even touching me as fast as I know. Honestly never even felt any contact. After serving all those penalties he drove me down again, and I pulled hard to the edge to let them by, ghost contact again and he got another 2 seconds. Honestly there wasn't any contact but he got screwed. I pulled out of a pass next race where we bumped side by side, so I slammed on the brakes seeing if it would give a penalty. Nothing.

    Something screwed as usual when phantom contact is a penalty but hard contact is ignored.
     
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  25. barak181

    barak181

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    I had something similar happen to me in a Race B yesterday, except I was the guy passing that got the 2 sec phantom penalty. Weird. I chalked it up to lag but with all the server issues going on lately, who knows?
     
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  26. JudegeBerry

    JudegeBerry

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    35
    Sometime ago someone here made the point everyone who plays this game is a gamer so if the penalty system is complicated people will seek to game it. The whole idea of a clever blame system is doomed because of that.

    I would remove ghosting completely and assign blame equally.

    Basically if people want clean racing they have to feel consequences follow incidents.
     
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  27. barak181

    barak181

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    The thing that would have the biggest impact on how people drive? Turn heavy damage on. After a few times of wrecking your own front end by divebombing and punting, you'll learn how to brake into a corner and drive in traffic.
     
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  28. HaydenFan69

    HaydenFan69

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    I ran deep into turn 1 at the Daily B race last night and could t make the exit. So I smashed the wall and a 1 second penalty. I was already dead last. But why a penalty? How does the algorithm not take into account I was on my own? Do they just treat it like a track limit breach at that point? Or maybe a wall collision? Normally don’t complain, just this was a incident in which nobody else was impacted (like I said, I was already last).
     
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  29. T_revisio

    T_revisio (Banned)

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    And what about the victims, people who have invested time and are immediately out of the race because of another drivers error ? That is in reality how to lose customers.
     
  30. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    If that happens I would stop playing. Every time I was hit his race might be over but so would mine. Nope, not my idea of fun.