PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Norrin Radd

    Norrin Radd

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    A new low for the pen system. I just got 3 secs for overtaking under yellows. How I was supposed to not overtake when I'm doing about 150mph and the car spawns next to me, is a mystery.
     
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  2. barak181

    barak181

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    Don't you know? You're supposed to come to a complete stop until the car comes back on track and resumes racing! Don't you know how yellow flags work?

    (That was sarcasm for the uninitiated.)
     
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  3. Tea_Leaves

    Tea_Leaves

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    It sounds ridiculous but I think his 'problems' were not qualifying with a higher DR. Passing a lower DR while making contact (inconsequential or not) is at risk of a DR-based penalty. I understand his frustration and don't blame him, I'm unsure what else he could had done other than self-ghost or make a complete stop. Incidents were created by surrounding drivers, he tried avoiding but got penalties instead.

    The system is not looking at context, only the car that last made contact and if it came out ahead irregardless of who originally created the incident. Maybe a CPU/PS4 constraint, who knows. If that's the reason, assigned blame was never a good idea to begin with. Other devs would probably have switched back to shared penalties months ago after understanding limits.

    Tackling a blame system is a gigantic undertaking and one that should be done before a game is released or in beta. Not a tweak every few months making it better or worse (latter in recent time). Zero communication from Kaz or any of the dev team about it either which doesn't inspire confidence for their next project.

    What's the alternative? I tried Project Cars and Assetto Corsa but they just weren't as fun. So I'll continue playing this game despite its faults. There's good racing, it's just often spoiled by its incompetent penalty system and some of the reckless drivers it has tamed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  4. Petroperu

    Petroperu (Banned)

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    That's a pretty crappy excuse considering bad calls from real life marshals might be around less than 5% while GTS' bs penalties have an staggering 90% chance of happening to you.
     
  5. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    No. It 100% is not the same for everyone and that's the biggest problem. The "lower DR rank armour" is still in the game and that's why Kie kept getting all those ridiculous penalties and what finally (and rightfully) made him delete the game.

    Couldn't agree more. GT7 is the first Gran Turismo game I don't give a :censored: about and will not be getting. It's going to be the exact same joke only with updated graphics.
     
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  6. Norrin Radd

    Norrin Radd

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    I am to take it that lower DR players get less penalties or less SR drop for the same type of offence?
     
  7. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    Yes
     
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  8. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens

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    In a similar situation lower DR gets the benefit of the doubt or rather a lower weight.
    Lower DR also gets lower penalty times for the same offense.

    Perhaps it's a simple subtraction leaving the lower DR without a penalty while the higher DR still has some penalty time left over, hence higher DR gets more and higher penalties.

    SR drop is or was tied to the time linked to the penalty, thus higher DR also got bigger SR drops.

    DR also seems to play a role in assigning track limit penalties as I have seen people run the exact same lines and one getting 0.5 sec, the other not. Or maybe there is some 'memory' in play and it forgives the first minor infraction. It never feels consistent and you can still get the CRB with multiple track limit penalties.
     
  9. NoStopN

    NoStopN

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    As had been verified, yes. But it frustrates most of us when you find yourself in a similar situation multiple times with a different result every time. If I bump the rear of another car, but don't knock them off track, don't give me 2 seconds in one race & a simple SR down with no time penalty in the next.
     
  10. Timm Sheehan

    Timm Sheehan

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    I have read the above messages and am very confused. I am typically a DR 1 driver and constantly get penalties (some legit and some not) so going by what you all are saying I should never get a penalty. I am not higher than ANY other driver out there (probably equal to some). I think more goes into the assessment than just DR rating.
     
  11. barak181

    barak181

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    Well, it depends on the infraction, as well. There are certain situations where you will always get a penalty, regardless of DR. However, in any of those same situations a person with a higher DR will get a more severe penalty - I've seen plenty of content creators get a 4 sec penalty in as situation that has given me a 1 sec penalty.

    And as someone else has said, it all can be incredibly inconsistent, too. Le Mans is famous for having the most bizarre and inconsistent track limits in the game. Sometimes it seems like Maggiore has no track limits at all (it does, I've managed to find a few) while RBR will give you a track limit penalty for looking at a corner inappropriately. And that's not even getting into the SR down arrows - which honestly infuriate me more than the actual penalties themselves.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  12. killerjimbag

    killerjimbag

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    The guy is driving an automatic transmission? Top driver? Please. He won't last a weekend on ACC. He's in for a rude awakening.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  13. barak181

    barak181

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    What gives you the idea that he's running automatic transmission?

    Kie HUD.png

    The "MT" here means "manual transmission" btw.
     
  14. killerjimbag

    killerjimbag

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    Would you care to show me him upshifting or downshifting in the video? I sure don't see it.
     
  15. barak181

    barak181

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    Have you ever heard of paddle shifters? Not to mention the fact that you can hear the downshifts going into the chicane and it sounds nothing like how an auto transmission would go about doing it.
     
  16. barak181

    barak181

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    Have I talked about my love/hate relationship with this game?

     
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  17. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    I think the "lower DR rank armour" (as I call it) doesn't really come into play until it's high A or A+ vs. B or lower. I've seen (in this very thread even) clips of high ranked players getting penalties for being rear-ended coming into a corner. I think @GOTMAXPOWER has posted some examples here. Or maybe it was @ASH32. Not sure. Doesn't matter, it's been more or less proved. Last week at DTS (Gr. 2) in one of the races, there was an A+ player starting in pole. The rest of the lobby were all DR B players or lower (it was an SR A lobby). He got rear-ended coming into T2 and got a 1s penalty for it!!! The punter got nothing of course. Then, just after serving that 1s penalty, he got rear-ended again. Even though he had already been unghosted for at least half a second, the guy behind didn't even brake and just drove straight into him! Another penalty for him, 3s this time. No penalty for the punter again. I guess he then must have gotten a couple of SR downs from some inconsequential contact in that race as well because I checked his KP profile afterwards and (guess what?) he got reset. Dropped from 55k to 15k in one race because of this awesome penalty system. I was actually going to post that replay from his POV here (because it was fricking unbelievable) but then I just couldn't be bothered anymore and deleted it.

    You obviously have no idea who Kie is and you're just making a fool of yourself here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  18. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    That happens also among lower DR classes. I was C when we ran the Nürburgring C race and that happen several times to me. The difference is we don't get reset. So that particular penalty happens to us all. But track limits and being involved in an accident where one car goes off are much more lenient in E and D.
     
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  19. NevilleNobody

    NevilleNobody

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    I feel the system is utterly broken and it is extremely frustrating but to be fair, Kie brought that upon himself. He is in a lower ranked lobby, there was nothing intentional there just a lack of control.

    a) the two cars side by side through Blanchimont, that is madness by the guy on the outside, never put yourself in that situation in a lower ranked lobby, guys just do not have the control needed to keep a tight line

    b) after witnessing this clusterfruk, Kie decides to go side by side on the exit of the bus stop. Yeah nah bad idea, never gonna work, always going to be contact.

    Pick your spots, long race, you have a ton of pace, pick your spots.
     
  20. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    Especially when you are that much faster.
    I feel that if you choose to run from the back with no qualfying you lost your right to complain about the penalties.
     
  21. O604

    O604

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    With some exceptions. Like Sven. He's like the resident penalty system tester for a lot of us. He's taught us a lot. But he ain't normal. ;)
     
  22. barak181

    barak181

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    I dunno. I once heard someone compare Kie to your drunk uncle over for the holidays. I think that's a somewhat apt comparison, which means if he's not doing stupid :censored: and complaining about it, something's not right in the world.
     
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  23. Ashthebash

    Ashthebash

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    A big part of Kie's problem I think. Go into a race against 19 people who know who you are and those 19 a) know that you're bloody quick and b) they're likely to keep half an eye out for you coming through the field

    Go into a race from the back with a few who have no clue who you are, the odds of collisions increase drastically (especially when you have the lack of patience that Kie does!)

    Wouldn't necessarily agree you have no right to complain about penalties, you do certainly pass up some rights to complain about drivers/driving though. If you choose to put yourself in that position you should expect some dodgy/unaware stuff
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  24. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    It's really hard not to complain about these, man. :lol:



    Well said. I agree with that. I'm also starting to suspect that the system might be biased against players who race without a qual. time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  25. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    Yeah that is one kind of penalty that should go away for good
     
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  26. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens

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    Nah, just biased against higher DR. I've never noticed any difference in treatment between qualifying and not qualifying (I did qualify on Sundays when I still played) and a huge difference in the chance at getting penalties by DR.

    The thing with not qualifying is that you have higher DR than the slower people starting in front of you. Once you catch up to similar DR drivers things even out (yet still terrible with this penalty system), however avoiding a penalty in the first couple turns in the back in traffic with lower DR drivers is a real challenge. You basically get blamed for anything that happens around you if you so much as get brushed by a car that gets punted off by someone else.

    Anyway the DR/SR bias is a terrible thing, or rather, the forgiveness for lower DR and SR. It gets people used to a certain 'standard' of racing that falls apart when they get to higher SR/DR. Then you get all these mixed DR/SR rooms outside prime time, putting people together that have different expectations of what is 'acceptable' in the race. From can't make the lightest contact, to a bit of rubbing and bumping in corners to blocking, driving you off at corner exit and straights is fine.

    I've gone up and down the DR/SR ladder so many times, the difference in 'rules' at different levels are painstakingly obvious. And maybe it is as simple as a delta lowering the penalties. Hence smaller infractions go unpunished at lower DR/SR (negative penalty after subtraction) while higher DR/SR is left with a positive penalty. Fact is the same situation that gets you 1 sec at low DR, will get you 4 sec at high DR. Not unreasonable to think that the same situation that gets you 2 sec at high DR, gets nothing at lower DR.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
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  27. barak181

    barak181

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    *sigh* Race B has even pushed to alt account to being done this week. After the race he said I forced him off the track. Time ran out in chat before I could explain to him that I don't have to give him room if he hasn't established position.

     
  28. The Cake

    The Cake

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    hahahaha, what a joke
     
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  29. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    This one is just funny :lol:



    The other driver is clean, we managed to get through Eau Rouge and Raidillon side by side with no problem but the game decided I had crossed a line with this one.
     
  30. NoStopN

    NoStopN

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    To me, it’s a sad example of the broken penalty system. You didn’t touch the brakes, yet you got tapped in the rear. If I had tapped another car like that, I would have gotten a penalty. And we all know I have a lower DR than you. This programming of the higher DR driver “deserves” the penalty for contact or a pass when they weren’t involved in the contact is lazy, presumptuous, & really doesn’t deserve to be supported by our continued racing of the game. But, the top level drivers never seem to voice any complaints about the system, so it must not be broken in PD’s eyes. :tdown: :grumpy: