PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Sean Renon

    Sean Renon

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    Ironically there are also a few times in the video where he bumps a driver in front of him, and gets a penalty - like your penalty is totally deserved, you just hit the guy in front of you.
    Or when he turned in on a guy in turn 1 at Nurb GP who was coming up the inside, sure it was a bit of a dive - but he turns in onto him, gets a 1 sec penalty and the other driver gets 10 seconds.
     
  2. Jamie Bbbbb

    Jamie Bbbbb

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    As I said: have fun.



    Didn't even need to cherry-pick a video. Can I just recommend that you watch the extract at 1:32 as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  3. Gareth davies

    Gareth davies

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    Not going to keep repeating myself but I've said I'm well aware of what happened and I was totally ****ed off at this point which is why I didn't care. Can't beat them, join them!
    Before you say well you can beat them etc I know and I will eventually. JS
     
  4. Alpha Cipher

    Alpha Cipher

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    For the love of all that is decent, don't
     
  5. TheGeologist

    TheGeologist

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    Totally agree. Why would the OP get mad about wreckless drivers and then wreck innocent drivers in retaliation?

    By doing so, you are worsening the problem..
     
  6. Mirror_man

    Mirror_man

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    Just on same race.. to blow away the steam... and make them pay... and that only for the guy(s) that have "attacked" you... that I may accept... and have done.. but not changing to their side (the Dark One) ... that is not an option...
     
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  7. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

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    I mean, it sort of is cherry-picking, since Steve's had a bunch of videos with close racing. Though as a response to an equally cherry-picked video showing bad examples of the penalty system in GT Sport, it's sort of appropriate.

    It'll be interesting to see how the griefers are affected by the upcoming racing regulations system, though. Ideally, as more and more racing games build in some level of ranking/cleanliness system, they can all learn from each other on what works and what doesn't.
     
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  8. Gareth davies

    Gareth davies

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    I'm not going to the dark side ever.... that I will not do as I love racing to much. Close fast racing when done right is a great fight and show of skill
     
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  9. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    It's an interesting change for console racing. I feel that half of iRacing's success with clean racing is due to the high cost of entry attracting only the most hardcore wannabe race drivers as well as established pros and amateurs. That creates a peer environment where generally everyone wants to emulate clean real world racing.

    That clean racing peer environment is far far smaller on console games. I'm not even convinced that most console gamers even want clean racing let alone a penalty system that tries to force them to race that way. So it'll be interesting to see if the market can change the gamers or if the gamers will just abandon the genre altogether.
     
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  10. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    Make the game what you want it to be, treat others with respect and take it from there.. IF you absolutely want to be a high DR you do NOT take chances, you ONLY race when it is safe, you stay AWAY from any suspect tracks with few laps. And you absolutely make a giant effort when it comes to qualifying. You could almost say, you act like it was real racing...

    Personally.. i would just try to race to have fun :)
     
  11. MrWaflz55

    MrWaflz55

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    Really. I feel like I’m in the minority when I say that most of my Sport mode races have gone positively with little to no incidents.

    I’m convinced the problem with this penalty system lies in that it assumes everyone in a race is going in with the same intention of racing clean. It doesn’t account for people who are out to simply murder as many players as possible, or even people who are being consistently dirty but still try to race.

    They need to make a penalty system that somehow account for dirty drivers and their intentions, while also rewarding people who play the game the way it’s meant to be played. Sounds way easier than it is to make.

    The only time a system like this will ever work is if there were human stewards (Forza tried that but it barely works), if you had an AI or machine learning (which could potentially make some really annoying habits) or if you got everyone to take a lie detector test or personality test before every race.

    The point is, unless everyone is on the same terms there’s going to be races ruined. We could lax the penalty system, but then the dirty drivers would have an easier time. It’s really hard to strike a balance between all these different variables.
     
  12. sundaydriving

    sundaydriving

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    I dont think youre in the minority. Most of my races also go without any serious incidents. Problem is that the ones that do have incidents can be particularly catastrophic. Being T-boned in the first corners at monza is a popular one.

    I don't think there are huge numbers of players who just want to play dirty. I think there are far more players who make mistakes, like braking a second too late into T1 at monza, than those who line up their targets to push them off.

    Receiving a penalty because of anothers mistake is not great, but its far from ****. No doubt its a PD fudge because the penalty detection system is not perfect. I hope they keep improving it because its still far better than having no penalty system.
     
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  13. TheNorfolkDad

    TheNorfolkDad Premium

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    I used to be in the same boat as the OP, in my eyes it was everyone elses fault, never mine. Until my SR took a real crash I had a good look at the way I drive, most accidents aren't an act of malice, but a braking error or not checking radar etc. I'm still an aggressive driver, and I don't think that will ever change, but where I used to look for the overtake on every corner, or mistake by the car in front I now bide my time and make absolutely sure I don't cause whatever chaos may unfold. Races have been so much cleaner as a result, and my positions have been higher than before too.
     
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  14. fastone371

    fastone371

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    How can a jerk-off like that end up blue?? There are far too many pre-pubescent juveniles playing that think this is GTA or Mario Kart. If this really is a "Driving Simulator" like PD claims GT to be its due time they correct the penalty system. At this point they are pissing off the people who play the most, the dirty drivers and the ones who treat it like they get bonus points for ramming other cars are not in it for the long haul. Some of the players PD loses due to this joke of a penalty system may never return, I don't understand how they think this is beneficial. It almost seems like PD is trying to equalize more players by penalizing the better ranked drivers more severely but it will never happen. The bangers will never be able to compete with the better drivers. The best PD can hope for is that more and more of the better drivers turn to custom lobby racing and let the bangers have at it in the daily's. That will protect the high DR drivers because lobby racing does not count toward your DR/SR scores, is that correct???

    I will answer your question first= YES you must be the only person who does not have an issue with penalties.

    I was leading at Monza after starting 4th, I get halfway thru the first chicane then get rearended and knocked into the kitty litter, besides losing massive time in the kitty litter I was given a 1 second penalty for the enjoyment of getting hit, oh and the offender came thru the pack from 6th place to accomplish this incredible driving feat all in the breaking zone. I think it is safe to say he missed his braking point by a tad. Many times I have been given a 3-5 second penalty while passing a much slower car on a straight away, they will swerve in front of you to gain the speed they lost while performing an off road excursion. I have not really found a way to defend against this as there just is not enough reaction time to counter this move. I have also gotten many 3-5 second penalties for someone either turning down on me in a corner or pushing up into me in a corner while I maintain my line. Many times it was obvious the other person was driving with a DS4 and probably did not do it on purpose as it can be very difficult to be smooth with the DS4. It appears if the other person is slightly ahead of you the penalty system thinks the car behind was the offender, it also seems weighted where the person who is ranked higher will either get the penalty or get a more severe penalty. When you get many more races in you will be hit by cars traveling perpendicular to the racing surface while returning to the track and T-bone you, you may be knocked into a wall at the same time, for this infraction you will be gifted with a 10 second penalty. When the victim is getting penalties the penalty system is broken, the OP and others have a valid complaint.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2018
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  15. Gareth davies

    Gareth davies

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    I want to hear from the 27 people that think it's amazing! Lol
     
  16. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    Given two extremes people will usually pick the one that is more to their taste than the other. For example, i don't think that the system is amazing, but i am nowhere near the opinion of your original post. So i am gonna vote AMAZING, after all, i made it through 3! races on Mount Panorama with Blue SR and positive DR. Had the system been complete poop i would not have had 3 great races.. including some drivers not behaving to nicely.. but lo and behold.. i made a few mistakes myself, without any bad intentions, it just happens..

    Take a deep breath, ignore the ratings and have some fun :)
     
  17. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    It's far to be perfect but it help a lot to keep people clean.
    The only very unfair thing in my opinion and that should be corrected as soon as possible , is when someone is bumped from behind and get a penalty.
    It's ok for an acceleration zone to prevent brake check for example , but this penalty must be OFF for who is in front when inside the braking zone.
    Just my 2 cts.
     
  18. sundaydriving

    sundaydriving

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    What about brake checking in braking zones that dont normally require full braking then? I don't think PD knows the optimal line from every location on every track nor does it have the ability to programatically penalise those that stray from it and hit others in some kind of perfect system. And AI that can do this perfectly is some way off. People are prone to mistakes as well.

    The penalty system is not ****, but its not perfect either. In the meantime remind yourself that its just a game.

     
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  19. Manasseh257NSX

    Manasseh257NSX

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    That's why once I got to a comfortable DR and SR I stayed away.. Some people try to push their luck but I say eff it. I'm at an A+ DR S SR and I rarely do Sport mode daily races now unless it's a track I really enjoy. Too many fools and idiots driving for this ultra sensitive penalty system for me to be driving dailies all the time..

    Folk might as well get the DR/SR they want (Or near it at least) and just coast there until the Penalty system improves or the FIA season actually starts (whichever one you're waiting for)
     
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  20. VeeDoubleU

    VeeDoubleU

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    If you make a biased poll, expect biased results.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
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  21. fastone371

    fastone371

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    I wont go as far to say that the victim of rear end job being penalized is the only unfair thing but what I think needs to be fixed the most is that it seems the higher ranked driver gets either the higher penalty or the only penalty for many cases of contact. That is just not right.
     
  22. NevilleNobody

    NevilleNobody

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    I tend to agree. I'd say 80% of the time the system gets it right and most of my penalties are a result of me being too close to the back of the car in front.

    i do think there should be far harsher penalties into the first turn for the car initiating contact, T1 'ring, Bathurst, Monza etc the car that initiates the first contact that bombs everyone out should cop a 30 second penalty.

    Also guys going all max verstappen is another issue. last night at Bathurst Grp 3 I was pushed off in T1 and dropped from 5th to 14th. Worked my way up to 5th with, to be frank, my cleanest and most patient driving i have ever done, did not touch a car. Was so proud. I catch the P4 driver up mountain straight, he moves to the inside so i take the outside line, he moves back over and i tag him and cop a 6 second penalty. Super annoying.

    But overall, it's right a lot of the time ... really is.
     
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  23. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    I definitely think its amazing. I mean if it wasn't for this penalty system we wouldn't even be having conversations here about racing etiquette. That's an entire aspect of racing that was (for the most part) missing from console racing.

    Now that doesn't mean that your complaints don't have merit. Clearly the system needs work and it currently encourages people to constantly stick their nose on the inside to shove their way to the front. From my perspective though, that's a long ways away from where online racing was before the penalty system was in place.

    Pick up lobby races are still riddled with barge passing, ram passing, weave blocking, weave passing, brake checking, and one idiot doing doughnuts on the straight. As far as I can remember, this was always the nature of online racing games. Hell, I used to dive bomb in online races because I didn't even know it was illegal.
     
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  24. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Since I lowered my DR to B I can see your point. The few penalties I have received since then, while not entirely my fault, could have been avoided. For example the car in front hitting the wall or hitting another car and losing so much speed that I run into them. Of course in lap 1 you do not have the luxury to keep a safer distance, since as soon as there's a car length in between the next car will dive for that spot and so forth.

    Usually you don't even get a penalty for those kind of bumps in DR.B. You could still get unlucky and get hit by someone spinning out and crossing the track from a blind corner.

    I always let go of the throttle early when behind someone, and feel more comfortable following between 0.3 and 05 sec gap. Close enough to draft, enough time to react, and enough room to plan a faster corner exit. However that still doesn't guarantee no penalties, especially not in DR.A. Add lag, plus someone braking very early to bleed a bit of their penalty or for some other reason and in DR.A a 10 sec penalty is guaranteed.

    And is 10 sec really necessary for hardly noticeable contact that doesn't affect anyone? While you can dirty block, brake check and push people off into walls without consequences.

    And it's always nice to say after the fact that you could have avoided the dive bomber, just let them through. Yet in the race you need to be concentrating on the cars in front, your braking and the apex. Not staring at the mirror to see what might come shooting from behind.
     
  25. Crazy Taylor

    Crazy Taylor

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    There is only 2 choices. Also with so much hate for penalties. People are purposefully going to go against your expected poll result for the sake of it.
     
  26. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    I'm talking about hard braking zone only , where :censored: happen normally. You can considere the one with 2 cones only when cone signals are on. For other zone , drivers will have to deal with it , if you want to put some pressure on the guy in front of you , you have to do this knowing you can be penalized in case of contact. It's fair , but not for the car in front of you that normally can handle a little rear contact without problem for his driving line.
    I'm not talking about AI that is catastrophic in GTS.
    Sure it's a game , but a game can evoluate to reach a level as close as possible to the perfection for the pleasure of all the gtplayers. It seems that PD listen to their customers more than ever since GTS .Constructive criticism lead to this.
     
  27. DFL_Eagle

    DFL_Eagle

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    I imagined this:
     
  28. Mirror_man

    Mirror_man

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    I definitely thing that your conclusion is amazingly brilliant!!!!! Is just like saying .. "I smoke for 20 years tobacco (two full packets) per day, and have never caught cancer... "
     
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  29. IronVortex75

    IronVortex75

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    Its come to the point when if another car is less than 50 metres behind me into a hairpin i KNOW he is going to divebomb me so i get out of the way and try to undercut him on the corner exit. There is no benefit to me of fairly closing the door, i just get rammed off every time.

    Im at B/S but my SR takes constant dips due to being dumped in the gravel and then used as a brake marker by the rest of the field.
     
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  30. MilkandMelk

    MilkandMelk

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    It's a game...
    It's got a semi flawed penalty system, and sure, there are definitively bad drivers. The key factor about me saying this is...
    It's just a game. As much as you want it to be, GT sport will never be the fairest of the fair racing game as, it's primary goal is to provide enjoyment to a wide variety of people. If you'd like to stop complaining about penalties, I'd recommend three things: 1. Drive extremely carefully and cautiously. 2. Find a league on say... A Gran Turismo Forum such as this one. 3. Switch games. If you really want a competitive experience, switch to say.. Rfactor 2 or Assetto Corsa... Anyways, those are just my two cents.
    Actually, make this three cents.
    You could always just race again. It's only DR and SR. Just build it up again! Push yourself that extra mile to be better than the rest!
     
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