PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    I'm not sure but I think it doesn't show the reason for the penalty. The game doesn't even know what it's penalizing you for. LOL. Classic GTS. :lol:
     
  2. Mc_Yavel

    Mc_Yavel

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    SR.S is too easy to get to. This kind of behavior is unacceptale at SR.S. :eek:
     
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  3. oneloops

    oneloops

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    In real life racing, clean drivers get crashes for other's mess up too.

    That gif is very very very rare that happens to me in 523 races in sport mode.

    In S under 90 is very common drivers doing that without previous dirty fight.
    But in S99 that kind of behaviour is very very very rare and it use to be because of previous movements and fights, mostly it's the result of non respectful driving by both.

    You have to avoid "Magnussens drivers" like in real life racing.

    The penalty system works not so bad because clean people are in S99 and that's the most important, not the issues in dirty rankings or one incident in one race.

    The penalty system can be improved, of course, but we have to be more responsible and less victims.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  4. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    Oh how I hate these drivers. In contrast to what others write here, this unfortunately happens very often. I am SR S, mostly with 99 points. But I'm only DR B. It may be that the combination of DR S and SR S are clean and well, but DR B is not. It is now almost normal that drivers ram sideways when they are overtaken. Often with a subsequent dangling on the wall or in the grass to give the victim additionally a time penalty. This is what it looks like in DR B, even if almost the whole field is SR S. Many players see the flaws in the penalty system and use them ruthlessly for their benefit. But I do not see the blame on these players. It is common in games to take advantage of any benefits. Some games can only be done that way, especially at the higher levels of difficulty. But in an online game such dirty methods have no place. It is the task of the developers to prevent something like that. But that is exactly what the developers of GTS do not do. And that's why the game is now considered broken by most players.
     
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  5. MailMan

    MailMan

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    Is this just bad luck, or didn't the Russian Renault driver get a penalty because he went of the track as well?

    To me it looks like he pushed me (gray Jaguar F Type) off the track, leading to a spin:

     
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  6. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    For me it is also the impression he has rammed you from the track. You can see that all his attention is directed backwards. He does not even use the slipstream of the car in front of him. It seems he is only concentated to defend himself backwards. He wanted to prevent you from passing and that was ultimately the result.
     
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  7. ASH32

    ASH32

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    @MailMan Could be lag, or dirty driver or both. If it was lag it would explain why they didn't get a penalty, since there may not have been contact on their screen, would also explain the lack of penalty for breach of track limit, they may not of actually ran wide. Who knows though the penalty system isn't great with crowding cars off like this. I would have expected a track limit penalty though if they did indeed run wide, so that's an odd one too.
     
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  8. I-Runner

    I-Runner

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    I send a message after the race to these "HIGH IMMATURE" guys (two options) :

    1 - "Are you a CHILD ?"
    2 - "Are you 12 ? "

    IR
     
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  9. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    I race from the back in lower DR and see this behavior in nearly every race. I always race at S99 but pass on average 7 people per race so get a good view of what goes on during the race. I avoid people like this most of the time but sometimes, like there, there's not much I can do. The penalty system gets these cases mostly right, but as you see, if the other car drives off, you are screwed.

    Sorry, the penalty system is bad. Otherwise it wouldn't be so hard to get the clean race bonus. I drive very carefully and go off track maybe 1 in 20+ races, go out of my way not to hit anyone, back out often, make room for cars that want to pass badly and only make a pass I'm 100% sure about. Yet only manage to get the CRB in 1 of 4 races on Interlagos because of all the bumping, punting, barge passing from behind.

    Sure we have to be responsible for out own actions, yet keeping quiet when the penalty system would be improved if replaced by a coin toss, is just as bad imo. Atm I'm all for shared blame, any contact, both cars 5 seconds penalty. Heck, bring it back to 10 sec for any contact like it was for a little while. Races cleaned up considerably since there was no way to get away with any contact passes.
     
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  10. oneloops

    oneloops

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    I've raced from the back in lower DR and seen of what goes on during the race from the back too .

    "sometimes, like there, there's not much I can do." Like in real life racing, not always you can avoid other drivers fault crashes.

    "Atm I'm all for shared blame, any contact, both cars 5 seconds penalty" I agree :tup::tup::tup:
     
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  11. Lateralus5813

    Lateralus5813

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    What do you think about these 5sec???? Infuriating!
     
  12. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    I think the whole lot of you need to go back to driving school :lol:

    Assuming you are the blue car taking a short cut at T2, unfortunately the game sees you as contacting the black car first who then gets pushed off by the yellow car. You didn't cut the track enough to trigger a penalty for the black car. Track limits are weird there.
     
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  13. O604

    O604

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    After watching the most recent World Tour event. I think there should be a Yellow Card system.

    2 Blue SR races to negate the Yellow Card. 2 Yellows = out the next event/FIA race/Daily races until changeover.
     
  14. fisheye

    fisheye

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    Hopefully a future update will equip cars with forward machine guns, guided missiles, and oil slicks out of the rear bumper.
    Edit: OK... I'm done qualifying in the top 5 only to be purposely rear ended into oblivion by the same green flags in the first turn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  15. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    That's one of the biggest problems of GTS. In DR B, it makes no sense at all to qualify in front because you are always rammed in T1 from the track. This is especially the case on tracks like Monza, Interlagos, ..... As a result one loses massive places and often gets a time penalty. Then you are really the last one. If you have experienced this a few times then it really makes sense to start the races from the very back. Then you can watch the usual chaos in T1 and then begin with the march forward. Part of the problem is the penalty system, which almost always punishes the wrong ones in the usual chaos in T1. Yes, these are confusing and chaotic situations. But better decisions would be possible in any case if the system would finally be improved. But yes, you can see why many say GTS is broken. In T1 it is definitely. Nothing works as it should.
     
  16. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Yep, I'm looking forward to getting punted off in the chicane before the start on Spa. The rolling start is really far back in a custom race. If that's the same in the dailies and I'm starting mid back without qualifying.... It's the same on the Nordschleife, I can't really race from the back there since I'll get rammed off before reaching the start. It's better on N24 since the cars are more spread out in the back before reaching T1. On the Nord it's all bunched up in the corners before the start. Still I get punted now and then on N24 T1 without qualifying...

    PD has reduced the penalties a lot, they don't trigger as often anymore. The downside, when the penalty system gets it right, you stand the risk of getting punted again by the offender, not happy about getting a penalty for their failed dive bomb. It's usually better just to get SR Down and move on :/
     
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  17. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    Something happened to me in this week's race C (Nürburgring 24h) which I can't get my head around. So, I'm coming to the last chicane on the GP section, the one before you enter the Nordschleife. There's a guy behind me (I'd say 10 metres) in a Beetle and I see that he's moving to the left side of the track. So I'm quite positive that he's gonna attempt a late brake and an overtake through the chicane. Because why the :censored: not, I'm "only" 10 metres ahead. That's the perfect divebombing range, right? So, I brake as late as the laws of physics (in this game) allow me and I'm not even going for the apex, just in case. But he's obviously determined to overtake me through there no matter what, so he brakes even later and only makes the turn because he uses me as a wall, bounces off and sends me into the sand. OK. I'm not even mad, I saw it coming from a mile away really. I'll catch him on the straight after he serves his penalty, right? Nope. He drives off into the sunset with no penalty whatsoever and I get an orange SR down!!! I don't understand what I did to deserve to be punished for this. Everytime when I was the inside car and there was contact resulting in the outside car going off the track (doesn't matter if unwillingly or on purpose), I got a penalty for it every single time. So I don't understand what's different about this one. It was a textbook divebomb resulting in contact and one car going off. How can he not get a penalty for it? Even now, this "penalty system" is still capable of surprising me. Although not in a positive way of course, that would just be insane. :lol:
     
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  18. fastone371

    fastone371

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    I think the penalty system has become such a joke that few people even participate anymore, I guess PD wont be happy until everyone quits, then they dont need to supply updates anymore.
     
  19. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    There are 3 ways this happens:

    1. Lag. The dive bomber's car is projected forward on your screen, hits your car and bumps you out of the way. If the data of you being bumped out of the way reaches his client before he hits your car on his client, then the hit never happened on his side. Your console will still give you SR Down, while on his console it looks like you magically jumped into the wall clearing his path.

    2. Time. If there is too much time (> 1 sec) between getting hit and going off road, then the penalty won't trigger anymore and you get SR Down.

    3. DR Difference. A lower ranked player often gets excused for bumping off a higher ranked player. I've had many instances on N24 since reaching DR.A where I get bumped off / into walls and get SR Down.

    And when both cars go off track or a third is involved the penalty system simply gets it wrong.
    [​IMG]
    Car gets punted into me, I get the penalty, punter finished with blue S penalty free taking 2 positions.
    Perhaps I got it because I had the highest DR of the cars involved :/

    Just now I was hit by nr 2 and possibly 1. I got bumped from behind by a 2 bar connection. ended up in the wall and got 10 sec wall riding penalties plus SR Down for getting hit. Yepthe penalty system is a joke! It was a B/B driver, not enough entries in the morning to fill an SR.S room. So it could also have been lower DR lower SR getting preferential treatment.

    The way it is now, is that higher DR is a curse to online daily races. The rooms are too mixed in DR and sometimes SR and the lower ranked people can ram the higher ranked ones of without any worries.
     
  20. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    The first two are 100% out of the question. There was nothing indicating lag and I went into the sand immediately. So it must have been the third one which I don't quite understand the logic behind, to be honest. If you do something which you benefited from and no one tells you that what you just did was wrong and you shouldn't do that, doesn't it really encourage you to do it again? Especially in online gaming? :lol: But hey, we don't really play GTS for logic, do we? :lol:
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  21. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    To quote @Tea_Leaves

    In jest. But indeed, it happens all the time that lower DR/SR players end up in mixed SR.S lobbies and continue to drive like they are racing the AI which is allowed in B/B and lower. As long as the penalty system excuses bad behavior in lower lobbies and against higher ranked players, people won't stop exploiting the system or simply think they are doing nothing wrong by barge passing and using other cars to corner.
     
  22. watto79

    watto79

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    Player numbers have shown very little drop off over the last year. I know it can be infuriating when the penalty system gets it wrong but I'll still take a flawed system over no system. The problem is a thread showing the penalty system getting it wrong will always be more popular than a thread of the penalty system getting things right. You'd read this thread thinking that every race is chaos with penalties only ever given to innocent parties, but that is at least in my experience not how it is.

    Anyway, people aren't leaving the game in the droves you think.

    Weekly Player Numbers
     
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  23. fastone371

    fastone371

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    And yet the lobbies very seldom offer full rooms and races are always mixed SR. If one can qualify on the pole and stay clear of the field Im sure the racing can be great but for those of us at DR B-A/ SR S all it takes is 1 guy who misses his brake point or thinks anyplace on track is a good place to attempt a pass and he can cause havoc for many.
     
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  24. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    Right. The races with pure DR S or DR A may be clean. But I'm DR B and I ride with drivers from DR A to DR D. My races are almost always chaotic. There are not many drivers that cause this chaos. But this is absolutely enough to spoil the race for most other drivers. GTS just can not sort out those rotten apples. Many situations like the divebombs are unique. In the profiles you can recognize these drivers well. But PD does not use all these possibilities.
    Yesterday I had a situation on the red bull ring in which the penalty system has decided completely wrong. Last round, I was in P3. P2 divebombs P1 and then lost control. Then he touched me, which stabilized him again. He cuts the curve and wins. The driver who was previously on P1 must go through the gravel, losing a lot of time. I got 5 seconds for the touch. Once again a 100% success for a divebomber. Aggressive and dirty driving will be rewarded and prudent and clean driving punished. When I complained after the race I was allowed to read again what a failure and sissy I am. The divebomber was 100% sure to have done everything right. The game has somehow confirmed him in it. To reward wrong behavior is one of the biggest sins in education and game design. GT does this in several ways. I think there, for example drivers of lower DR ranks who are allowed to ram without consequences drivers of higher ranks. Here is the concept in principle wrong. But PD does not seem to understand that.
     
  25. fastone371

    fastone371

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    Yeah, PD could do much better and retain more players if they tried to improve the penalty system, I'm not sure why they ignore it. I got a 5 second penalty for being rearended at a chicane over the weekend because the driver behind me missed his braking point, he even apologized but that just shows what a joke PD 's penalty system is.
     
  26. fisheye

    fisheye

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    I'm noticing this more and more, and they're ramming the car in front to slow down instead of using their brakes.
     
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  27. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    This is a very old problem in the GT series. That was very common in all GT games. Using AI drivers as a brakeblock and wallriding were standard for many players. That did not bother anyone offline, because the AI is not complaining. In an online game with human drivers, of course, this is dirty. Since the penalty system is so bad this is unfortunately often not punished. Therefore, many players see no reason to change their behavior. Ramming gives them advantages and only that counts for them. GTS promotes wrong behavior rather than punishing it. This is bad game design for me.
     
  28. fastone371

    fastone371

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    Maybe if PD turned that kind of driving against AI into a disadvantage instead of an advantage people might change their tendencies.
     
  29. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    In GT4 Prologue there were penalties if you hit the wall or an AI vehicle. The car was simply slowed down for 5 seconds. There was a ********* from the players and this feature was no longer included in the full GT4. PD probably never forgot that and therefore does not punish something like that enough.
     
  30. doblocruiser

    doblocruiser

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    This pretty much annoyed me :rolleyes: