PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Hobbyist_t20

    Hobbyist_t20

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    I'll chime in to say that I more recently started ramping up my online play, and I managed to pull off a clean and consistent FIA Manufacturer's race at Maggiore. I went from Sportsmanship B straight to S! Though I was happy to have the opportunity to race against cleaner drivers, I don't really feel like I was qualified by that one great race. Don't get me wrong, I have no intent of cutting corners for my benefit, hitting cars on purpose for any reason, or swerving across the track to defend, but that doesn't mean I'm experienced enough to not miss my braking point and hit someone, or misjudge the grip I have in a turn, and slide sideways into someone. It's hard to judge in the moment if I have a good overtaking opportunity, without more experience than I had when I got the rating.
    I will say that I have improved in a lot of those areas, and have maintained the S rating for a while, except for briefly dipping into A and back up again.
     
  2. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    I feel like there should be SR deductions for crashing, going wide, spinning out etc. In SR.S you should be able to expect people to be in control of the car and be able to stay on the road. That 0.5 sec penalty should be -3 SR instead. For some reason, the only place PD gives SR Down is for hitting the pit entry wall. You get SR for staying on the road for a sector, you should also lose it for not staying on the road.

    People not being able to stay on the road is my bread and butter in the game. 50% of positions gained is from others not being able to keep it on the road all on their own. Another 40% from people crashing into each other or serving penalties. Only 10% are genuine overtakes. That's all in SR.S.
     
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  3. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    Absolutely right. I had races in which I won 10 or 12 places without having actively overtaken once. Even if I actively try to overtake it often does not work. Either there are dirty actions of the front man or he sooner or later loses control of his car. Without me actively touching him to make that clear. The level on SR S is very bad. In races of the top 200 it looks different. There are great overtaking maneuvers. Two drivers drive partly over several curves parallel to each other, gave each other space and there is no contact. But in DR B SR S this is just utopia. Either the drivers can not do better there or they belong to the racing is rubbing group.
     
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  4. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    Just WOW. :lol: Can this "system" be any more stupid? Who the :censored: programs this? You're actually the one who almost got taken out and you get 4 seconds for it. That's just brilliant. :lol: Way to go, PD. :lol:
     
  5. breeminator

    breeminator

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    SR has to be looked at in conjunction with DR. A driver with S SR, and 10k DR, doesn't have the same skill as a driver with S SR and 75k DR. The 10k driver is much more likely to cause a collision by making a mistake than the 75k driver. But that's fine, because you race against people with a similar DR to yours, and the SR can be seen as separating out people at that DR according to how hard they try to avoid collisions.
     
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  6. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    Imagine an option or a daily race where the cars weren't tanks on the track. When you look at something like this, it really shows just how much PD went for the "stay on track" option for contact that would normally throw the car off and they also made the cars almost indestructible.



    If contact between cars had more real on track consequence the penalty system would have less work to do..
     
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  7. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    I agree. It would definitely be quite amusing and satisfying to watch all those divebombing idiots end their race in T1. The problem is that they would end someone else's race too. Also, this video clearly shows that the kerbs in this game aren't even remotely as dangerous as they are in real life. It was over the moment he touched it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  8. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    Yes, more tears would flow, but after a while it would settle down and bad drivers would understand that ruining other peoples races also ends their race. As it is now, they can keep on messing up everyone on the track. And honestly, sometimes it would be better to be able to quit a race after a dive bomb, without DR/SR punishment..
     
  9. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    I doubt bad drivers would settle down. It's too easy to enter the next race, they start every 10 minutes and then do the same there. Crash a few people, go the the next one. I already see plenty that go on a rampage until the penalty zone then quit. They would be stopped sooner with full damage, but there will be more incentive to wreck as many people as possible in T1.

    The strict 10 sec penalties worked to get people to drive contact free. Getting slowed continuously is not fun for dirty drivers, while the innocent bystanders can still recover and keep going. With damage, the victim is usually off worse.
     
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  10. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    If 10 seconds helped then a dead car should be just as effective.

    In any case, without PD trying something to get rid of those that just want to abuse the game and other drivers nothing will change in any serious way.
     
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  11. gamrac2

    gamrac2

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    someone hits me and i get penalty, third time in spa, Friday daily races

     
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  12. Redneckchef

    Redneckchef

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    This is standard penalty system cheating, they tap you and get all 4 wheels off track to trigger a penalty because the game will process it as you hitting them off. Just blatant cheating.
     
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  13. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    Spa was a disaster again last week. It was a tactical race, as it was faster with fuelsaving and without pitstop. But that did not work in DR B SR S. I've been with a Belgian and a Finn in all my 3 races. We were similarly fast, we had the same strategy, we respected each other and left room. It could have been great races. But there were still the others .... Behind us were always drivers who have not paid attention to the gasoline consumption. Full risk full speed. We were divebombed and rammed from behind. We were pushed, ... etc. That and the unjustified punishments cost us insanely a lot of time and nerves. We were punished at the end of the race. I am now only SR B. The Rammers course had the blue S. It is obvious, it is not possible to drive the clean and tactical races as it is intended. The errors in the penalty system affect all elements of GTS. The actual core elements no longer work because there is anarchy in the race. Fuelsaving has no sense because it is immediately regarded by some drivers as a weakness and an invitation to ramming. And the broken penalty system also confirms them in it. Last week I saw that this is not my fault alone. The Finn and the Belgian were just as affected as me. Driving cleanly and tactically makes no sense in DR B anymore.
     
  14. Underthewhip

    Underthewhip

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    I've recently started playing online races. Thought I practice well and qualify for daily races and today I drove manufacture race and nations race both twice. Not once did I manage to end up on the place I've qualified to.

    Always the same story, stay out of trouble first corners as much as possible and gain some positions. Then get rammed from behind or by somebody who spun and deliberately hitting me shortly after rejoining. This always seems to result in me spinning, crashing and then not managing to get away. How does everybody get away so quickly after crashing? Is there a way to get the car back on track? Anyhow, my rating has been Sr S for a long time, I've only done a few races here and there before and getting S was not hard. Ive not achieved any good results so Dr D is the best I have.

    Unfortunately though, these races today have lowered me to Sr A which was even more of a disaster because these guys push you around even more and in the end it seems I get the penalties more than the ones crashing me.

    What can a newbie do to get good racing and slowly ckimb the ranks without depending on luck with not getting slammed?
     
  15. Dorofint

    Dorofint

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    171
    I am DR B and have run quite a lot of races but my experiences are the same. If you ever get on DR A or DR S it may be different. But in all ranks below there is chaos. We now have 71 pages with messages about the broken penalty system. This and the faulty matchmaking are mainly responsible for the conditions. Unfortunately, the developers do not seem to want to change that. Unfortunately, I do not have a secret recipe for dirty drivers. You try to drive clean and avoid accidents. That's all you can do as a player. That's why you only have the choice to accept the conditions or to stop with GTS.
     
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  16. Underthewhip

    Underthewhip

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    Thanks for the info. This has been frustrating me for some time and last night I had enough and starred started looking into what the community says about it, and found this thread. Has anybody from GTS staff commented the system?

    I just want to enjoy online racing now and then on the off season when my real car is in winter storage. I dont have endless time to improve my Dr that much i guess. Whats lobby racing like? Better?
     
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  17. MikeV27

    MikeV27

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    Another annoying thing about this penalty system that has been bugging me for a long time is that it makes players serve penalties in qualifying, which ruins 2 laps most of the time. Just invalidate it ffs.
     
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  18. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    You forgot to mention getting a penalty for it. :lol:

    But in all seriousness. If you can't qualify on pole everytime and disappear in the first couple of corners then try a couple of races from the back (without qualifying). Learn to read and anticipate other players' moves (which is not going to be easy in lower ranks because the players there tend to be very unpredictable with their braking and lines) while keeping a safe distance. I find it to be an invaluable exercise in reaction times. :lol: Learn to overtake when they make a mistake and as cleanly as possible (which, again, is not going to be easy in lower ranks). Outbraking your opponent coming into a slow corner is the most common overtaking move in racing and therefore in GTS as well. BUT, in lower ranks they will try to outbrake you basically everytime and from way too far back. Which will result in either them punting you off (and you getting a penalty) or them losing control, hitting you and going off (and you getting a penalty). It's called divebombing and it's something you just have to expect in every DR and SR in this game. As you climb up the ladder (which is going to take some time and a lot of patience of course) the racing will get much closer and other players' moves more predictable. That means much cleaner races. But it also means much more competitive races and every little mistake may cost you a position or two. Well, to sum it up. The penalty system is a laughably bad joke. And because it looks like PD is done tweaking it and this is what we get, I'd say don't bother with Sport mode at all. I certainly don't anymore. Sooner or later it will get even more frustrating because you'll be getting penalties for other people's stupidity almost every race. But that's just my opinion and you know what they say. Opinions are like :censored:holes, everybody's got one. Good luck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  19. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    To get reset more quickly, drive away from the track and/or keep your wheels locked in the opposite direction while braking fully. The worse you are angled toward the track, the quicker the game will reset you.

    Always drive with radar and keep half an eye on the rear view mirror to avoid what's coming from behind while keeping a safe distance to what is happening in front.

    Don't get in between 2 battling cars. Don't overtake when the 2 cars in front are too close for your car to fit in between.

    Trying to out brake is always a risky move leading to penalties. The car in front usually turns in on you, makes contact, then goes off and you get a penalty. Instead focus on getting a better corner exit to overtake or get fully alongside before the braking zone of the next corner. Make your position known by staying close to the other car. Not too close to make contact, but close enough so the other car see they can't simply take the corner as if you're not there.

    To avoid hitting an early braker, position your car a bit to the inside of the one you're following as if you are getting ready to out brake them. This can either have them brake early and you get alongside for an overtake, they can can brake late expecting a dive bomb and go wide giving you an easy pass or they brake on time and you can carefully move back to the outside (if no one behind) and take the corner in the best way. Do no brake late, rather brake early and go for slow in fast out. What often happens is that the car in front wants to block you by swerving in the braking zone (illegal but GTS doesn't care) Since getting in their slipstream compromises your braking distance you will hit them if you started braking at your normal qualifying brake point.

    With this penalty system it's safer to be on the outside / closest to the edge. Penalties are triggered when a car goes off. If you don't want penalties, be the one that has the most risk of going off. Most people realize this and will be more careful not to bump you off. And if you do get bumped off, they'll get the penalty.

    It takes a lot of experience reading other people's behavior and intention. It takes a lot of patience to do well in sport mode. Starting from the back (not qualifying) can be easier since you only have to focus on what happens in front for the first bit. However the backfield is often more messy.

    Don't expect to win often or at all. The game seems easy at first entering as DR.E SR.B, but as soon as you hit SR.S winning will be very rare due to how matchmaking works. Yet those SR.S races are cleaner simply by having the field spread out more quickly. The races are short so any position gained is a small victory in itself. Focus on those, not on finish position.

    Always race for fun. DR is nothing but a matchmaking tool. It's not a level up system or experience points and is very much influenced by the type of race, time of day, day of the week, your experience of the track, and simply who you are matched with. Focus on SR instead, drive clean and try to avoid those not driving clean. It's always better to let a dive bomb through (and watch them fly off a couple corners later if not straight away) then get hit and end up next to the track with possibly a penalty.

    Lobby racing entirely depends on whether you know the people you are racing with. A broken penalty system is still better than no penalty system. Racing with randoms in lobbies you can expect a lot more bad behavior and or not ever seeing anyone on track due to the huge skill difference / differently tuned cars etc.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  20. Schalkehelmi

    Schalkehelmi Premium

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    Gran Turismo™SPORT Why did he get a penalty?

    Good morning friends!
    Yesterday I had this fight against a Spanish driver. In the last lap this happen, but after watching the replay I don't understand why he got a 2 second penalty. In my opinion that was not necessary. What do you think?

    Me driving the yellow Mercedes.
     
  21. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    He tapped you, you tapped the wall.
     
  22. fastone371

    fastone371

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    I agree, it was not necessary but that's the way the game is. I think the reason is because you guys touch several times then you scraped the wall giving the other the penalty.
     
  23. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    Yep, what he said. Very easily exploitable and therefore very heavily exploited thing on all Tokyo tracks in this game. Unfortunately.
     
  24. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Damn, stop bumping! You touch him 5 times from 1:20 to 1:30 and touch the wall while he's driving a pretty normal smooth line. That's how the penalty system is backwards and in this case you are the so called 'dirty driver abusing the penalty system'. Use radar, be aware of the dimensions of your car. Sure, he could have left you a bit more room but you weren't squeezed into the wall. No reason to escalate the bumping.
     
  25. Schalkehelmi

    Schalkehelmi Premium

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    I think you didn't see that I wrote I am the driver in the yellow car, I think.
     
  26. djidane57

    djidane57

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    i feel like PD just gave up on trying to fix this mess , we're going to be stuck with this non sense until the next GT ......although we're bound to get the same stuff
     
  27. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Yes, what I see is the white car going back to his line after every bump while the yellow car keeps bumping into the white car and once the wall.
    1:21 too close, 1:24 yellow veers into white, 1:26 yellow tries to move white out of the way, 1:28 white gets too close but could have been avoided, 1:30 is the bounce back from the wall. First 3 could have been avoided by you. White getting thrown off after the first 3 contacts is understandable.

    The yellow car is moving a lot more laterally than the white car. Smoother driving will prevent this. Anyway looks like 2 drivers that aren't fully aware of the dimensions of the cars they are driving. Racing incident, not penalty worthy, just ugly to look at.
     
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  28. Underthewhip

    Underthewhip

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    Many thanks for the elaborate answers and sharing of insights! Especially regarding resetting the car after ending up in the spinach. I just get stuck for ages trying to get moving in the right direction after reaching a halt. Usually I try to save it but mostly end up spinning around in circles. There's also that weird thing that the car behaves like the clutch taking out the gear when trying to get moving from stand still.

    I will try to lock up hard next time and see if I can be auto-resetted. But most of all I will try to keep your suggested techniques in mind. I rarely hit others from behind by mistake since I try to brake early to avoid collisions. Most of the time accidents happen when I get hit from behind or when I attempt passing someone on a straight and they decide to hit you in the passing moment.
     
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  29. Schalkehelmi

    Schalkehelmi Premium

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    So that is your opinion. I have been in the race and I keep my line and I came after the hairpin beside the BMW. So on my left side I was always enough space for the opponent. I keep my line without being instable.
    From the view on the BMW I see that he always was trying to go on my line. I don't see that I stear into him.
    So I think that you and me have a different opinion on the situation, but sure, both say there is no reason for a penalty. Am I right?
     
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  30. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    141
    That's the problem with the replays in this game. Sometimes you can't really tell who's doing the veering. Especially if you can't see the player's control inputs. And this clip is the perfect example. You'd have to upload the replay again from your POV with full race info on and hide the playback control panel so we could see your inputs. Because it does actually look like you're the one doing the bumping.