Penalty Zones Coming to GT Sport's FIA and Daily Races

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    Finish line behavior might now turn into every lap behavior, as each penalty is going to be mandatorily enforced at the next slow-zone. I hope not, but I like to think in terms of what the worst driver is able to do, knowing that that is what they are likely to do!

    I still think a zone to the side on a straight allows the car coming out of the penalty to accelerate to racing speed before he can cut into the pack. Mostly, I try to think of how this would be enforced in real life, and the equivalent of pit lanes that cannot be part of the racing line (in most cases, especially if occupied by a car entering or exiting the pits) and outside them cannot be used to accelerate to racing speed.
     
  2. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    Pretty much how it is going to be implemented :tup:

    From this Article: https://www.gtplanet.net/penalty-zones-coming-to-gt-sports-fia-and-daily-races/


    Once the system arrives, players will no longer be able to serve their own penalties. Instead, they will serve them automatically at the Penalty Line — marked by arrows in yellow boxes either side of the circuit. There may be up to four Penalty Line zones on any circuit.

    While your car will ghost for the duration of your slow down, Polyphony Digital advises that you should also get off the racing line. The official release states that if another car strikes you from behind as a result of unghosting from serving the penalty, the game will deem the incidents to be your fault…
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  3. WhiteFlight1

    WhiteFlight1

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    Couldn't agree more. I may return to Sport Mode soon now.
     
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  4. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    How about the uproar of being slowed down and forced to drive behind the pack for penalties you were not at fault for. I prefer taking the penalty to the end instead of letting the idiot pass me that hit me from behind before ending up off track.

    This will be very easy to game with the current way penalties work. Tap a car's back bumper or side, then tap a wall or go briefly off track. The car in front receives a penalty, pass him at the penalty zone.
     
  5. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

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    How often does that actually happen to you Sven? If your involved in that much contact I’d say something else has to be looked at,

    So no different to what we have at the moment?
     
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  6. svenvangent

    svenvangent

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    Good improvement and hoop it works well .
     
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  7. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    Not often, yet those are pretty much the only contacts I get as I'm very careful but can't avoid cars driving into me from behind when I have to slow down for someone else or a corner :) When I race, I tend to race a lot, so it did happen on a daily basis.

    Taking it to the finish the faulty penalty almost ever had any effect as I would be long gone from that car (I start at the back without qualifying) Forcing a slow down in lap 1 can easily make matters worse. However this will be better than the willy-nilly penalty serving we have now. Even better would be to simply add it at the finish line and serve in the pit for daily C.
     
  8. ASH32

    ASH32

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    Since you always start at the back just take it easy on lap one and the idiots will likely be slowed in the penalty zone/s all at once due to the usual chaos and you'll get a ton of places straight away and that might offset any future dumb penalties that were not your fault.

    Personally I'd probably allow people to carry a few seconds a penalties to the end and only enforce the penalty zones on drivers with lots of penalties but this way may work too, we'll have to see.

    One thing is for sure though is it'll make for some great videos, even if it is due to some really unfair penalties and a lot of chaos, just try to keep calm, easier said than done though I know. :)
     
  9. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

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    Im sure this will benefit you I was racing in an A+ room yesterday qually 3rd daily race C. Drafting P1 and P2, they had racked up 4sec and 2sec of penalties after sector 2. That would have meant an easy P1 after the first slow down zone. I’m sure if you start at the back of the grid you must be passing a fair few with penalties flashing above them.

    The other thing to remember is for now, Daily races slow down zone inclusions is sometime in the future.
     
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  10. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    PD 'advise' good sportsmanship, and respectful race etiquette, too. In fact, you have to watch a short video before being allowed on track when you start. But few respect PD's 'advice'. And there are no mechanisms in the game to enforce hardly any of the good sportsmanship advice PD show in the video.

    The issue is, now that penalties will be served in slow zones (two or more per lap), the player in front is even more incentivized to brake check the car behind well BEFORE the slow zone, incur a penalty onto the trailing car, and both will be slowed in the slow zone. A practice that used to be prevalent only at the end may now become a common practice all the time.

    I have long held that, until the game can detect brake checking, no auto-stewarding system can work effectively. A game that cannot tell the difference between braking late and causing contact and braking early and causing contact has effectively no true to life stewarding.

    I guess time will tell if we see this feature causing more abuse or less, but it doesn't take much imagination to see how it could be gamed...
     
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  11. DodgySyrup

    DodgySyrup

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    Not a fan, as I think it's the drivers prerogative when and how they serve any time penalty; especially when they can often be bizarre or inconsistent penalties at that.

    Say for argument sake you are in the lead and have 3 seconds over the guy in 2nd, i think knowing you have a 1.8 second penalty to serve forces you to balance the risks of pushing or holding steady, and adds a bit of extra pressure and interest to races.

    If you want to slow up in certain places to chip away at any added time, or you want to stop on the line and then crawl over it, or you decide to simply race to the end and have it added to your final time, and possibly position, then i feel it should be up to you.

    I am hesitant to say it adds a fully realised or nuanced element of (extra) strategy to races, but it adds something.

    Slowing me up in a certain places without my consent means taking control away from me, in a literal and abstract sense, and I don't like it.

    A "simulator" must allow a player as much control and agency as possible.

    So for me it's a no.

    I don't want to see it enter Daily Races; not that I'm a huge Sport mode player, but I intend to be as my confidence, track knowledge, car knowledge, handling model knowledge etc...is sufficient, albeit after many months of mostly offline or lobby racing.

    I have waited purely out of respect for other racers.

    I wanted to stay away until I could race with some consistency and not constantly bump people off or crash into the back of them like an irritating noob.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  12. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    While I haven't raced much recently, I have found the majority of racers in my region to be very fair. Admittedly most of my racing is done at the front of the field so I don't see brake checking as much of an issue for me personally. I do understand how it could easily be for others, but I prefer to have a glass half full attitude and hope not too many decide to game the system. But as you suggest we'll just have to wait and see.
     
  13. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    Drivers at the sharp end of the field rarely face the issues that plague the mid-pack and backwards. It is an education to nerf your car, or do one slow lap for qualy and start at the back and observe what the majority of the field faces... You may end up with a VERY different opinion of your area's drivers!
     
  14. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

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    :lol: Yes this could well be true, but I'm not going to test your theory.
     
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  15. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    True, blame the drivers that try to serve and block for this heavy handed solution. However instead of forcing you to slow down they could have gone with only making it possible to serve penalties in certain places off the racing line. I've always been an advocate for that, as well as not serving in the first and last lap.

    Anyway it's the next experiment in a long line of failures to make sport mode clean and fair. At least you don't have to worry anymore about people serving penalties right in front of you while trying to block.
     
  16. simsimsheree

    simsimsheree

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    I think some of the issue is the nature of ADHD sprints which really don't reflect real racing hardly at all. The real racing world virtually never faces this issue, as darn near ALL races are long enough to need a pitstop, which is when timed penalties are served (or deducted for final position if incurred after the last pitstop).

    If PD want to start to reflect real racing, it's time to drop the smash your way to the front 5 lap sprints. Make a 20 min race the absolute minimum race distance, make a pitstop mandatory, make penalties served only in the pits!

    Or, at the very least, say (as happens in real life) that any 5 lap race has no rules at all! In the real world, these kinds of races are done specifically to ensure tons of contact and basically have no penalties, anything goes! Demolition derby, Rallycross sprints, that kind of thing.

    But trying to hone a penalty system taxed to the limit by the pressures of a 5 lap sprint but still 'supposed' to be clean is an exercise in futility..! Arcane 'gaming' solutions are not the answer. Making races last much longer is...
     
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  17. DesertPenguin

    DesertPenguin

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    Yea but here's the thing: they don't.
     
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  18. Razamataz

    Razamataz

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    Sounds like Polyphony are trying their hardest here to rein in the dirty driving. Keen to see how it unfolds.
     
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  19. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    I'd say drive thru for those T1 ten-pin bowling "passes".
     
  20. Qyn

    Qyn

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    But if you're off the racing
    Seems like a graet idea forcing the "break checkers" off the racing line to me.
     
  21. Groundfish

    Groundfish Premium

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    I think it’s a great idea.
    I’ll admit one my one rage day when I dropped to sr b from s, I wast fast on the track car combo. I got irritated with drivers and carefully chose my spots to punt them to. Yes, I was penalized, but I outran the penalty time by scrubbing at the end. I would not have done it if it meant a slowdown within a lap.
    I’d bet this will be an improvement. Someone pulling a dirty move to get by won’t be able to run away and hide only to slow at the line.
    I think though with any penalty system there will be people complaining and making you tube videos crying.
    I’ve not had trouble with penalties.
    The stricter the better in my view. Can’t wait to see the you tubes after this is installed.
     
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  22. cleanLX

    cleanLX

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    I like that PD recognizes something needs done.

    I think to make this work best...
    The yellow zone needs be off line... add arrows for that too so players know exactly what off line is. Or, rather - have the arrows at the edge of the track, have them aligned over the portion of the track that is "active" for penalty serving... A window if you will.
    For the auto penalty system to engage, the driver must get off line (per the indicated - added/moved yellow arrow noted above) prior the yellow zone.
    If you fail to get offline (into the zone indicated by the yellow arrows aka off-line-serving area)... and serve your penalty, then you incur an additional penalty.
    For this to happen, the car will have to ghost well before the zone so that "gamers" cannot block you from serving your penalty... it also keeps the penalized player from brake checking others while navigating/entering the penalty zone.
    If they do not enter, their car un-ghosts, and if a resultant accident (hit from behind while un-ghosting) occurs... another penalty...

    I don't see this "penalty zone" as a fix to racing...
    I see it being implemented to educate people (through real penalties) to not get the penalty in the first dang place.
    Once that education has been learned, they can leave the penalty zones in place, and, hopefully they will rarely be used.

    So this is all good... now we need a bit more focused attention to blame detection... if possible.

    I've been away from racing for months due to the gaming...
    I'll be watching to see if this is enough to bring me back. Hope so.

    Thanks to PD for making an effort.
     
  23. Pedinhuh

    Pedinhuh

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    Just make it so you carry your penalty time to the finish line and then have it deduced from your total time on the race, and then enforce pit entry time serve time if you accumulate over 5 seconds.

    This new penalty zines sounds good on paper but I still have my doubts about it, but at least it allows me to expect when people will be serving penalties in the track and plan accordingly.

    Though this should be infuriating for serving unfair penalties, which still are very much a thing in the game.
     
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  24. Auditore

    Auditore

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    That is a bad idea,the penalty system isn't perfect and mistakes are bound to happen(even in real life stewards can make mistakes),you don't want to screw the race for someone who didn't deserve a penalty

    That will never go away,but with the penalty lane system it's punishing enough for someone who crashes into you but forgiving enough so a innocent driver can still have a chance to win.
     
  25. DodgySyrup

    DodgySyrup

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    At least with the current system you can gain an unfair penalty, push to the end, and decide to have it added to your finish time, allowing you to some what mitigate its impact.

    You know if you have a 3 second penalty you have 3 seconds to extra to find and that's that.

    But this new system will give you no choice in how you deal with it and will see drivers being slowed down in these specified zones without their consent as others are coming past at race speed, maybe dicing with another car, and with ghost cars changing back and forth at different times depending on the length of their penalty .

    Don't get me wrong, I know in practice, if done right, it can be relatively simple and user friendly.

    I just feel that the penalty system as it is adds an element of (somewhat limited?) strategy when you decide how and when to serve it, and it will also take direct control of the car away from the player and give it to the computer.

    Plus, wouldn't it have been more productive to retest, recalibrate, and reintroduce the penalty system...new and improved, one would hope

    Get that right first.

    How, I don't know.

    But computer controlled race stewards and race directors, able to monitor all cars at once, and with clearly defined rules and etiquette, which can be used appropriately, including giving no penalties if it is 50/50 driving incident, must be the future.

    Instead, you get black or white decisions that can often feel unfair or excessive.

    This kind of intelligent race director, overseeing all human behaviour, and the complexity of such a system, must be a priority if online racing is to be taken to the next level.

    And if it is done right no one need ever be aware of its existence.
     
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  26. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

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    On the face of it unfair penalties in SR of 90+ are few and far between, and that is where it has to work.

    It is this that needs to be addressed and eliminated for every unfair penalty there are many more fair, and it is the fair penalties that shouldn’t have the chance to gain.
     
  27. Auditore

    Auditore

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    1,762
    I think PD wants the same thing as you but like you said there's no solution for that,they are trying to work with the system they have.
     
  28. djidane57

    djidane57

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    PD surely never watches real life races , because getting orange arrow for rubbing paint , 2 times nets you a red rating everytime
     
  29. Calmlity

    Calmlity

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    Let's say only for over 1-2 second penalty. Or cutting corner, or bumping cars. Seems fair to me.
     
  30. djidane57

    djidane57

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    geez i'm so close to insta delete the game because of this ****ing non sense penalty system / we dont even know what gets you a 3 , 4 or 5 sec penalty