Photo GT5 prologue VS Forza 3 Demo

[rsh]

It wasn't an honest opinion.

I am very good at reading body language, and when Dan Greenawalt said Forza 3 is the best looking racing game on any console he did not beleive himself, as was evident in his body language. After he made the comment his arm jerked up, which is the reaction someone has when they are lying

Nice one.
I am a shrink myself and there is debate in the world of psychology if the body is actually telling us things from nature or nurture. In other words, one side claims that culture, place of birthday and tradition is one part. The other side is claiming that the most part of the body languague is similair across the globe.

So beeing good in reading body language using NLP or other " American theory" is just not completly correct, because there is still quite some debat going on about this subject and the subconcious mind.

Other then that; Dan Greenwalt is just someone that wants to sell his game in a typical manor used in the US.
Claiming it to be the best and outshouting the other.

Looking at Kaz san, he is using the Japanese way. Carefully choosing his words. He doesn't want to be embarresed or embarrese someone.

Get the point? Sometimes people who are focussed on what somebody is saying or how, are losing who is saying what. And why they behave the way the do.
Image yourself standing on a podium selling a franchise you are building for quite some time. You could be pumped up or you can be proud or perhaps you actually though of something you will say on tha podium the night before. Lights flash, sounds roar and there you go.......

What would you do? Be humble, piss your pants and leave, or pumping up the story and be proud of what you achieve?
No easy answer on that one if you would now the story, education, place of birth, his/her parents, feelings and state of minds and how the subconcious mind is working.

But, nice try

 

[phil-t]

Don't know if this has been discussed, don't feel like reading through 48 pages

Anyway, is it just me or are the shadows completely off?

First of all, the car is in direct sunlight and the windshield is completely black.
Second, from what direction is the sunlight coming? Some shadows point to the left (see upper arrow), indicating that the light is coming from the right hand side.
The shadow on the hood of the car suggests that the light is coming from the left, the third arrow suggests it's coming from behind the car, a bit to the right.

Really, that's just ridiculous.

Well at least it's more interesting then the twitching discussion!

Without the whole 'scene' it's hard to say if all the shadows are completely wrong, I'm sure as with all these pre-baked things, it may well be, but it could be a rocky outcrop on the top of that craggy outcrop on the right..
The mid-bonnet arrow is pointing at a reflection IMO, I don't believe that is a shadow, the windscreen is deliberately darkened to stop the interior being shown (a known LOD issue), the only 'real' shadows are the cars own shadow, and the shadow on the road from the rocky outcrop that we can't see all of it.. I believe from driving that track, the sun is up and to the right slightly... which ties in with the cars own shadow.

I can certainly point out a really massive shadow issue that no-one has mentioned yet, but would make FM3 look quite poor, however I'll keep it to myself, as I don't want to fuel the debate unnecessarily

 

[sejtur]

Other then that; Dan Greenwalt is just someone that wants to sell his game in a typical manor used in the US.
Claiming it to be the best and outshouting the other.

Looking at Kaz san, he is using the Japanese way. Carefully choosing his words. He doesn't want to be embarresed or embarrese someone.

Get the point? Sometimes people who are focussed on what somebody is saying or how, are losing who is saying what. And why they behave the way the do.
Image yourself standing on a podium selling a franchise you are building for quite some time. You could be pumped up or you can be proud or perhaps you actually though of something you will say on tha podium the night before. Lights flash, sounds roar and there you go.......

What would you do? Be humble, piss your pants and leave, or pumping up the story and be proud of what you achieve?

I definately prefer the "Japanese way."

I know there is alot of tension going on on stage, when everybody is looking at you, but that's no reason to brag. It's very important that it sells for them ofcourse, but the way they bring it is just way too big, and I think they would have done thesame numbers as they will do when they didn't say "better than anything you will see on console" or something like that.

 

[Killinator]

I'm really not sure what people expected other than what they got from Greenwalt,
Is he supposed to say 'we have a good game but in six months GT5 will come out so we haven't really got a hope, hope you buy a few copies of our racer as its really not that bad'
The guys job is to advertise Forza and thats what he does,
I wonder do people analyse Kaz to the same extent,
honestly body twiches,
For God's sake he could of had an itch for all you people know(he could hardly start scratching himself on stage),and if you can honestly say Kaz has never said a dishonest/conflicting word about GT5 please continue the discussion on Dan's bodily functions in such an 'un-biased' way, otherwise maybe people should focus on the games instead.
/rant.

 

[TBR 427]

Image yourself standing on a podium selling a franchise you are building for quite some time. You could be pumped up or you can be proud or perhaps you actually though of something you will say on tha podium the night before. Lights flash, sounds roar and there you go.......

What would you do? Be humble, piss your pants and leave, or pumping up the story and be proud of what you achieve?
No easy answer on that one if you would now the story, education, place of birth, his/her parents, feelings and state of minds and how the subconcious mind is working.

I would make something to be proud of.

I would NOT take m$'s bull**** when it comes to release dates

I would release it when it's finished, completed, and only if it's something I'd be proud of, not a day earlier, not a build to soon, not a feature I don't want.


This is what KY seems to have done. I'm 100% sure Sony has glued velcro to his back and stuck the Sony Internal Release Management chimp firmly to KY. This clearly hasn't bothered him, and he's taking his sweet time getting it how he wants it so that he doesn't have to 'tard it up with the opening speech. When it does ship, he'll be a proud man, knowing he achieved what he set out to do, and he can live happily ever after because he knows he did his best and people WILL love it.

Whereas M$ CLEARLY has both hands, a leg, 4 gorillas in lab coats and a roast chicken up greenwalts's anoos. I doubt he'd be able to call his mother without mentioning F3. He won't have much of a reputation, and odds are we'll see the 'definitive' racer disappear as time goes by (when you claim the best, and NFS shift gives it a run for it's money, it IS going to be forgotten). Which is a shame because until recently he was a pretty cool guy. Spoke like a gentlemen and didn't afraid of anything.


As someone who's at uni studying to be a games designer/producer/modeler/texture artist, one of these situations is great; it's the ideal job, and one of them isn't.

Guess which one...

 

[hardvibes]

I'm really not sure what people expected other than what they got from Greenwalt,
Is he supposed to say 'we have a good game but in six months GT5 will come out so we haven't really got a hope, hope you buy a few copies of our racer as its really not that bad'
The guys job is to advertise Forza and thats what he does,
I wonder do people analyse Kaz to the same extent,
honestly body twiches,
For God's sake he could of had an itch for all you people know(he could hardly start scratching himself on stage),and if you can honestly say Kaz has never said a dishonest/conflicting word about GT5 please continue the discussion on Dan's bodily functions in such an 'un-biased' way, otherwise maybe people should focus on the games instead.
/rant.

Advertise YES, speculate NO.
This is pure arrogance, and arrogance doesn't deserve respect. He hadn't to say anything at all! Period. Nobody would have been pissed if he just said "This is X, have fun people".
How does he know the competition can't deliver more? He said it at his own risk.

 

[Killinator]

Advertise YES, speculate NO. He hadn't to say anything at all! Period. Nobody would haveen pissed if he just said "This is X, have fun people".
How does he know the competition can't deliver more? He said it at his own risk.

Dont get me wrong, he said some daft stuff that it turns out dont hold true,
But none of us know what kind of pressure he was under from microsoft or anyone else, everyone knew GT was coming soon(relatively) and he needed to make it seem like his game was the be-all and end-all,
I know he lied, he knows he lied, we all know he lied,
But I can't honestly say that if I was in his position under the media spotlight like that that I wouldnt lead everyone astray with 'definitive this' and 'definitive that',
Why not stop the Dan bashing and just focus on the fact that GT5 will be better than all before it(and probably a fair few after it), Dan will continue to push HIS game as it is his job, and we'll continue to wait for GT5(although I'll be purchasing Forza to try and stump the wait(and I also quite enjoy the game)).
Comparing the 2 games is one thing but a sustained campaign against Dan Greenwalt won't make GT any better, and to be frank it makes some posters look quite pathetic!!!

 

[sejtur]

I'm really not sure what people expected other than what they got from Greenwalt,
Is he supposed to say 'we have a good game but in six months GT5 will come out so we haven't really got a hope, hope you buy a few copies of our racer as its really not that bad'
The guys job is to advertise Forza and thats what he does,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNDoYUsRrjI
He advertised Forza 2 in a perfectly suitable way until 1:00
Why not talk about Forza 3 in thesame way?

 

[Killinator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNDoYUsRrjI
He advertised Forza 2 in a perfectly suitable way until 1:00
Why not talk about Forza 3 in thesame way?

Becasue with every new iteration of the Forza series the pressure builds, HELL just look at our expectations for round 5 of GT!

 

[sejtur]

Becasue with every new iteration of the Forza series the pressure builds, HELL just look at our expectations for round 5 of GT!

And Yamauchi still hasn't talked in the way Greenwalt did.

What will Greenwalt say for the next forza then, when the expectation is even bigger? The definitive racing game is more beautiful than anything you would see in the universe?

 

[Pierced Lead]

Personally after reading like the 10 last pages I can conclude this.

1. GT fans will never like FM3's graphics

2. Forza fans will never like GT's graphics

3. Anybody here who is defending FM3 is a moron and a troll - why are you spending your time here? What on earth are you gaining by trying to convince GT fans that FM3 is better, aside from time loss?

4. Simple SIM is NOT a troll
5. Bogie, no offense, but from reading most of your comments, you're a troll in disguise, that 'GT5 rocks' on your sig is just to lower your status from a Forza fanboy, but all I see is you're defending Forza 3 and only say 'yes GT5 looks good, sometimes'
6. Devendander, I can't say much from him, but he seems to lean on Forza's side.
7. Nomino - obvious troll is obvious

Sorry if I offended anyone but this is what I see.

Oh and btw, call me a fanboy, but GT5's graphics blow FM3's out of the water. Heck I'd go even as far to say Shift looks better.

 

[Killinator]

And Yamauchi still hasn't talked in the way Greenwalt did.

What will Greenwalt say for the next forza then, when the expectation is even bigger? The definitive racing game is more beautiful than anything you would see in the universe?

On the flip side Kaz barely says a thing and when he does he nearly drives people to tears
I dont bloody know what he'll say, maybe he'll be more truthful because he's an avid reader of GTPlanet and takes to heart everything thats said about him,
Im not agreeing with what he said but some people are acting like hes the first person to promote something by misleading people,
Anyway I'm not out for an argument, the cream will rise to the top whether Dan Greenwalt flinches on stage or not

 

[El Drifto]

Oh and btw, call me a fanboy, but GT5's graphics blow FM3's out of the water. Heck I'd go even as far to say Shift looks better.

+1

I don't even know why they bother comparing Forza 3 graphics to GT5, when honestly it's in a league of its own.
Forza 3 looks good, so does Shift, but PD have the graphics department locked down.

Yes, Forza 3 has a few advantages over GT5: Prologue, and so does Shift.

 

[Killinator]

When a game has the individual light bulbs with appropriate codes/serial numbers included on the bulbs, you know comparisons are a moot point

 

[hardvibes]

Becasue with every new iteration of the Forza series the pressure builds, HELL just look at our expectations for round 5 of GT!

Pressure? I'd say it's more about FEAR. He fears the competition so he attacks, it's as simple as that.

 

[Killinator]

Pressure? I'd say it's more about FEAR. He fears the competition so he attacks, it's as simple as that.

Thats fair enough then, if its your opinion, I'm not here to convinve you your wrong becasue I don't know if your wrong,
I was only trying to bring a slight bit of balance, but I wont force my opinion on anyone, its not my place to do so.

 

[serversurfer]

Perhaps when Kaz said they didn't really try to "compete" with other games on the market, Dan took it to heart, and decided there was no point in his trying to compete with GT. So when he said FM3 would be the definitive game of this generation, with the best graphics and physics, and the most cars, he meant only in comparison to games like Burnout: Paradise.

 

[Bogie 19th]

5. Bogie, no offense, but from reading most of your comments, you're a troll in disguise, that 'GT5 rocks' on your sig is just to lower your status from a Forza fanboy, but all I see is you're defending Forza 3 and only say 'yes GT5 looks good, sometimes'

I couldn't be offended by that. I don't give a **** how you feel. Thanks.

 

[Tume]

Is it really impossible to avoid name-calling in these kind of threads?

 

[evilfoxhound]

Heck I'd go even as far to say Shift looks better.

I agree. Well, on the cars anyway.

When I played Forza 3, I couldn't believe how poor the in-race cars looked. Low polys and lack of AA (Hexagon headlights on the mini LOL)

I see no jaggies at all on the cars in Shift. They are very smooth and detailed (And with superb reflections). Heck, you can even see the driver shifting gears through the back window in chase view!

 

[pricey2003]

Perhaps when Kaz said they didn't really try to "compete" with other games on the market, Dan took it to heart, and decided there was no point in his trying to compete with GT. So when he said FM3 would be the definitive game of this generation, with the best graphics and physics, and the most cars, he meant only in comparison to games like Burnout: Paradise.

He should have said "The definitive blah blah of this generation on xbox" or "The definitive blah blah of this year on a console" and he probably would have been right.

I read an interview where he claimed his physics engine to be bigger/better than any other sim, including PC sims.

The major difference between the two is that one has earned the respect of the industry, the other is trying to demand the respect of the industry.

When I played Forza 3, I couldn't believe how poor the in-race cars looked. Low polys and lack of AA (Hexagon headlights on the mini LOL)

And its at that point you realise all the bullshots from the past few months......................



Where nothing but a waste of man hours.

 

[serversurfer]

Is it really impossible to avoid name-calling in these kind of threads?

Basically. The trolls will troll until regular posters get sick of it and call them out for their trolling. The actual trolls will counter with, "F you, troll," as though that will fool some people in to thinking they're not actually the troll.

A troll is someone who willfully disrupts a community by making inflammatory comments that are without merit. Case in point, Bogie, who repeatedly claims that known flaws in Forza don't exist—for him, of course, so he can't be proved a liar—and when shown evidence of such flaws, falls back on, "I'm not really seeing it," and "Well, no game is perfect," all the while constantly harping on the tiniest imperfections of the competition's product, and calling anyone who dares to downplay them a simple fanboy.

 

[Custer85]

Was it T10 that claimed they would deliver the best physics ever, because they have 360 calculations per second for the physics? Well Shift has over 400 calculations for the physics engine and the game is far from being a serious simulation, a mix of simulation and arcade.

 

[serversurfer]

Perhaps additional calculations are required to produce such unrealistic results.

 

[chepe371]

Years of being in sales taught me that, when it comes to presentation, and pitching, you're not selling lemons, you're selling lemon meringue pie, and lemonade.

You always have to toy with the customers imagination, you're not selling gelatinated pig and beef skins, you're selling Jello.

Of course, if you're selling lemon meringue pie you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Case in point, Bogie, who repeatedly claim that known flaws in Forza don't exist—for him, of course, so he can't be proved a liar—and when shown evidence of such flaws, falls back on, "I'm not really seeing it," and "Well, no game is perfect," all the while constantly harping on the tiniest imperfections of the competition's product, and calling anyone who dares to downplay them a fanboy.

Then you have outright liars like serversurfer, who like to spin, spread fud and disrupt the community because they don't like people who don't mind hump a single sim racer.

Too bad he didn't comment on the numerous flaws I have encountered in Forza 2 on the "Forza" forums (you know, where you discuss Forza issues), such as all the hub caps on every car, inaccurate lap times compared to real life, no body roll, molasses grass and sand, pits that randomly fix items, and then randomly choose not to fix items, the frequent drops online when you have 6 or more people in a room, liveries not showing up in online races on select cars, requiring a restart of the race or reboot of the problematic Xbox, inconsistent damage, such as a mirror falling off from swiping a wall, but the mirror won't fall off at other times, even when intentional, or the fact that every car gets the same gas mileage. I could go on.

It's too bad trolls like serversurfer don't have the capability to research before they spout off, only to embarrass themselves. I am glad there are more mature members here who race with me in GT5p. That guy is the LAST guy I would want on my PS3 friends list.

 

[sejtur]

Years of being in sales taught me that, when it comes to presentation, and pitching, you're not selling lemons, you're selling lemon meringue pie, and lemonade.

You always have to toy with the customers imagination, you're not selling gelatinated pig and beef skins, you're selling Jello.

Of course, if you're selling lemon meringue pie you have nothing to worry about.

The question is: How much can you toy with your customers until they see you're too far off the truth...

 

[evilfoxhound]

Has anyone seen that Microsoft interview from a few days back when the guy said this:

""Look at Forza shipping next month: the definitive racing sim this generation. You could say it's the only racing sim that's shipping this generation."

The "only" sim? Really, MS? How about the only sim where you can rewind time. Prick.

God, Microsoft are arrogant assholes.

Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4154/the_man_at_the_center_of_.php?page=3

 

[Bogie 19th]

I saw that too. There was an article where he said that, and Kaz said their cars are better than reality. It was a dueling article. Funny stuff. They are about as arrogant as they can get.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/95326-Gran-Turismo-5-and-Forza-3-Backers-Square-Off

I nearly pissed myself after reading those comments.

 

[pricey2003]

A troll is someone who willfully disrupts a community by making inflammatory comments that are without merit. Case in point, Bogie, who repeatedly claims that known flaws in Forza don't exist—for him, of course, so he can't be proved a liar—and when shown evidence of such flaws, falls back on, "I'm not really seeing it," and "Well, no game is perfect," all the while constantly harping on the tiniest imperfections of the competition's product, and calling anyone who dares to downplay them a simple fanboy.

Spot on Mr Surfer.

He must be very lucky that he has not encountered any of the game spoiling bugs of FM3 demo yet, at the same time, very unlucky as he has encountered all the extremley minor glitches of GT5.

It has to be said i dont, nor have i ever, believed a word he has said to be honest. Infact it is to a point that if he said grass is green i would still check for myself.

I saw that too. There was an article where he said that, and Kaz said their cars are better than real life. It was a dueling article. Funny stuff. They are about as arrogant as they can get.

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1461/yamauchi-gran-turismo-5-better-than-reality

I nearly spit my mountain dew out after reading those comments.

“We consider reality under the best and most aesthetically pleasing conditions”

Read it again you incomprehensive fool.