PlayStation 4 General DiscussionPS4 

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This isn't strictly about the PS4 (as pointed out in the video I want to link), but this sums up a lot of my thoughts about the next generation of consoles. Or the gaming industry itself.
 
Sorry - the Escapist people make their living from attempting to be funny about games etc. It's the people who play games that have made a lot of game devs wary to try the new - this whole sub-culture of whinging at every little detail that fails to meet their personal specifications...and breathe... which is the real cause. There is the global economy, which makes experimentation far riskier - also, devs need to make more money, due to the costs being hedged by that ecomony.

I have played so many fresh and new games because I'm not constrained by needing to check with my friends list first - however, they've often sunk due to biased reviews and people apparently needing games to play with others on. Most on my FL I have met through those and other, more mainstream games and we still talk, especially if I see them playing a game I haven't heard about.

Planks like the Escapist journos are really doing all this for themselves, so I tend to ignore them nowadays.

PolarBear - the prices are probably placeholders. Hell, I've even seen a user review for the PS4 stating it's a waste of $500 and they wish they'd never bought it...

The PS4 probably won't even enter production until this summer, so until autumn, it's all conjecture.
 
This isn't strictly about the PS4 (as pointed out in the video I want to link), but this sums up a lot of my thoughts about the next generation of consoles. Or the gaming industry itself.

Nice roundup of all the negative.

Now wheres the positive? There was plenty of that as well. Oh wait positive news doesnt sell, see any tabloid for proof.

The media Molecule game a Wii U music generator? C'mon. Im drooling at the chance to create 3D objects and use them to make game levels Little Big pLanet style. Racing games are racing games. Are they suppose to race on the moon to make it "fresh"? The "club" and "first person" concept of Drive Club isnt being fresh?

I agree about its tiring to see another Killzone or another Infamous. But people eat that up. Its not the developers fault for making those games, its the gamers fault for supporting them by buying them. Its like how everyone complains about all the movie sequels and reboots but they're the first in line to watch them.

If the consumer stopped supporting rehashes the developer has no choice but to stop making them.

Sony says they're supporting the indie game developers moreso next gen, so we should see more titles like Journey and Witness

I agree the games industry is stale. I havent bought a game in over a year. In fact I buy very few games as I am very particular and rehashes are almost never appealing to me. If more gamers became more selective they have no choice but to make newer, fresher games.
 
Funny how you've mocked my conversational skills when you have failed to answer a question I posed twice. So, for the third time, how exactly was the ps2 a failure? And given that the ps3 has now overtaken the 360 in worldwide sales, how was the ps3 a failure?

There you go about sales again. And infact PS3 has roughly half the sales of the PS2 in a similar time frame

What I said:
"They've missed many opportunities in the electronic industry, resisted online and made poor decisions to cpu and gpu architecture in PS2/3"

You missed again what I said. PS3 failures are widley known and I've gone through some of them. PS2 had the same problem but because it was the default console of the time, ie Sega was never in the race due poor mega cd 32x and saturns, xbox came late and not much push, no dev support. Devs got to grip with the difficult PS2 because they had no choice unlike this time around MS got the 360 and devs onboard and did a proper release, Sony's convoluted architecture designs now had a viable alternative.

To repeat again Sony has even admitted the PS3 got many things wrong in the conference, they didn't even have to say really as most of us already know and seen it with the PS2.

One thing that encapsulates the utter failure is the Sony store, 5/6 years after launching of the PS3, the PSN store is a broken stuttery mess and was like this for months. How that store revamp could even pass through testing is beyond me or any industry standard, they even left it on instead of reverting back to the old simple store. What they're struggling with is low resources, incredible mistakes in hardware choices.

PS4 looks to address all that and then some but everything is borrowed and copied becasue they have no clue anymore, latest is copying onlive clips. They may pull it off but Sony has for PS2 and PS3 made very poor hardware decisions, PS2 didn't matter, but PS3 it did. They've resisted online, shown very poor awareness of how the world has changed, a very dinosaur like company, they should've been the ones pushing online instead of resisting it, putting out a smart phone, setting up a decent store way before but they just play catch up, and in a bad way.

We'll see how their cap in hand to an AMD pc box goes. Maybe the people who've made all the mistakes are gone, perhaps we'll see some innovation in OS, functionality and some understanding of modern times.

Many of us see Sony as a past it company, struggling to keep up, Kaz has acknowledged and is well known. Are these people going to be the ones to take console gaming forward through software and hardware designs, who have done nothing but watch the world progress around them. I just see them as a poor middle man, a perfect company for 1990s consoles and TV tech.

In summary, I stated my observation, I would've thought even the most ardent Sony fan could accept PS3 had many failures and a lack of vision of from Sony without me going over the PS3 debacle in incremental steps, giving back story. It's like you just singled out a few words and react and then quote some more with replies not relating to anything. This is not an attack on Sony, I own and bought a PS3, I don't sub to xbox live, I just state Sony aren't the most forward looking company in the last ten years, made many mistakes, I don't see a good track record for the modern age and not the best to lead console, esp for the west since 90% of sales are there now.

I hope they come good and turn around an archaic philosophy
 
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Sony already said the MSRP for games on the system will stay at 60.

Thank God for that. If that changes I´ll stick to PC for now on. Games at release are 10$/€ cheaper than games on consoles. Even if you pre-order, sometimes you get 10% discount with the pre-order bonuses included. So you can get games for 45 (15$ cheaper) and overall "better quality".

Getting a console is cheaper than a gaming PC but if you are a guy (like me) who plays and buy tons of games, PC is the way to go.

Still getting the PS4 for its great exclusives but not multi-platform games.
 
There you go about sales again. And infact PS3 has roughly half the sales of the PS2 in a similar time frame
Why do you think that is? Maybe it's because somebody released a console that was as good as the PS3 and quite a few people decided to try that one and either couldn't afford to buy the PS3 or didn't see the point?
What I said:
"They've missed many opportunities in the electronic industry, resisted online and made poor decisions to cpu and gpu architecture in PS2/3"

You missed again what I said. PS3 failures are widley known and I've gone through some of them. PS2 had the same problem but because it was the default console of the time, ie Sega was never in the race due poor mega cd 32x and saturns, xbox came late and not much push, no dev support. Devs got to grip with the difficult PS2 because they had no choice unlike this time around MS got the 360 and devs onboard and did a proper release, Sony's convoluted architecture designs now had a viable alternative.
Yes the PS3 had a complicated design. I wouldn't class it as a problem. From a dev's point of view, yes, it is, because why should a company like Treyarch spend extra money developing a game on a system that is harder to write software for than the alternative, which is easier then just port it?
[/QUOTE]
To repeat again Sony has even admitted the PS3 got many things wrong in the conference, they didn't even have to say really as most of us already know and seen it with the PS2.
I never heard anyone say that the PS3 had any problem. Maybe I missed a bit, but I don't think so.
One thing that encapsulates the utter failure is the Sony store, 5/6 years after launching of the PS3, the PSN store is a broken stuttery mess and was like this for months. How that store revamp could even pass through testing is beyond me or any industry standard, they even left it on instead of reverting back to the old simple store. What they're struggling with is low resources, incredible mistakes in hardware choices.
I'll agree with you here, the PS Store is a mess.

PS4 looks to address all that and then some but everything is borrowed and copied becasue they have no clue anymore, latest is copying onlive clips. They may pull it off but Sony has for PS2 and PS3 made very poor hardware decisions, PS2 didn't matter, but PS3 it did. They've resisted online, shown very poor awareness of how the world has changed, a very dinosaur like company, they should've been the ones pushing online instead of resisting it, putting out a smart phone, setting up a decent store way before but they just play catch up, and in a bad way.
Again the store I will agree with. The smart phone I will not. Have you had a Xperia play? Or ANY Experia for that matter? The fact that they could have released an iPhone type smartphone before Apple is quite frankly laughable. The same could be said for MS. In fact, MS smartphones are a joke compared to Sony's.

We'll see how their cap in hand to an AMD pc box goes. Maybe the people who've made all the mistakes are gone, perhaps we'll see some innovation in OS, functionality and some understanding of modern times.
I think the fact that they included the developers, not indie developers, MAJOR developers, in the creation of their next system should be celebrated. You have called Sony out for their choice of hardware for the PS3, were is you appreciation for doing the opposite?

People like you will never be happy , no matter what a company like Sony do.

Don't get me wrong, I know Sony don't care about me after I have bought the system, but to think that any other company do, is a joke.
 
Yes the PS3 had a complicated design. I wouldn't class it as a problem. From a dev's point of view, yes, it is, because why should a company like Treyarch spend extra money developing a game on a system that is harder to write software for than the alternative, which is easier then just port it?

You've just agreed with me many times. From a devs point of view its a problem, manifested in late games, no dlc, broken games, inferior games and even no game appearing and you acknowledged and agree but then say you wouldn't class it as a problem.

I'm sorry, I can't really understand the point of your reply.

And you ask for appreciation of Sony's move, I actually opened up with it.

"On a side note, I'm pleased they've gone a more pc route"

it's obvious now a couple will just post out of habbit, blank out the failures or agree but exclude it. Like they know but feel they should defend anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I know Sony don't care about me after I have bought the system, but to think that any other company do, is a joke.

Again, really random of you to say, "to think that any other company do, is a joke".

I've not said or inferred other companies care.
 
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Every Sony-Owned Studio is Working on PS4 Games

Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/25/every-sony-owned-studio-is-working-on-ps4-games

http://www.gamespot.com/news/all-sony-owned-studios-making-ps4-games-6404449

Sony owns 12 studios that only make PlayStation games, and it should come as no surprise that many of those studios are focused on making PlayStation 4 games. But in a conversation with IGN, President of Sony’s Worldwide Studios Shuhei Yoshida – the man basically calling the shots for every PlayStation exclusive – confirmed that every studio in Sony’s stable is making PlayStation 4 games.

The question posed to Yoshida was simple: “Is it fair to say that all of the first party studios are working on PS4 games?” Yoshida’s answer was just as simple: “Is it fair or not fair? It is fair to say.”

Even in light of Sony’s dueling ecosystems – PS3, Vita and the upcoming PlayStation 4 – it may not come as a surprise to the uninitiated that Sony’s studios would be working on next-gen content. But in some cases, it definitely is.

For instance, this all but confirms that Naughty Dog’s second team is working on a PlayStation 4 title (Uncharted 4, anyone?). Polyphony Digital is almost certainly working on Gran Turismo 6 for PS4. This also confirms that Media Molecule isn’t only focused on the upcoming Vita title Tearaway, and that Guerrilla Cambridge, Studio London, Sony Santa Monica and Sony San Diego are also toiling away on PlayStation 4 games.

The biggest surprise for us, however, is that Yoshida’s comments seem to confirm that Sony Bend is working on a PlayStation 4 title. This is shocking, in a sense, as Sony Bend hasn’t created a console-dedicated game since 2004, and only ported a couple of its latter Syphon Filter titles to PS2 only after bringing them to PSP. Sony Bend has since been dedicated to Sony’s handhelds, but Yoshida’s comment indicates that this may no longer be the case.

Of course, we already know about three other Sony-owned studios’ PS4 games: Sucker Punch is working on Infamous: Second Son, Guerrilla Games is working on Killzone: Shadow Fall and Evolution Studio is working on DriveClub.
 
There you go about sales again. And infact PS3 has roughly half the sales of the PS2 in a similar time frame

Excuse me? You were the one who brought up sales in the first place. If you're going to use something to support your argument, don't complain when I do the same.

What I said:
"They've missed many opportunities in the electronic industry, resisted online and made poor decisions to cpu and gpu architecture in PS2/3"

Here's what you actually said.
I grew up with competing tech, Japan bringing new stuff, Sony have tried with PS2/3 but failed.

That's what prompted me to reply to you in the first place. How on earth could anyone consider the PS2 to be a failure?

You missed again what I said. PS3 failures are widley known and I've gone through some of them.

I never said the PS3 was perfect. As a matter of fact, I was getting tired of sub-standard ports that resulted from the complicated architecture.

PS2 had the same problem but because it was the default console of the time, ie Sega was never in the race due poor mega cd 32x and saturns,

Sega already had the dreamcast by that point. Why are you talking about mega cd and the saturn?

xbox came late and not much push, no dev support. Devs got to grip with the difficult PS2 because they had no choice

I think we can say that regardless, things worked out well for the PS2. The ps2 did not suffer as a result of being "difficult to program for. You even said so yourself.

unlike this time around MS got the 360 and devs onboard and did a proper release, Sony's convoluted architecture designs now had a viable alternative.

And Sony have corrected this by doing exactly what MS did with the 360. Problem?

To repeat again Sony has even admitted the PS3 got many things wrong in the conference, they didn't even have to say really as most of us already know and seen it with the PS2.

Yes. Sony wanted to address the PS3's weaknesses this time around. This is a bad thing because? As for your comment about the ps2, given the massive success of the PS2, did you really see any problems with it at the time?

psn store

I can agree with you on this. The PSN store is terrible. I preferred the older one.

PS4 looks to address all that and then some but everything is borrowed and copied becasue they have no clue anymore,

That's the way of the console wars. Copy the successes of your competitors. Sony aren't the first to do this and they won't be the last.

They've resisted online,

How exactly? They brought out the PS2 network adapter to answer MS. I didn't have one myself, but a bit of reading up on the subject suggests it was a success. And then there's the PS3, which is free to play online for everyone.

shown very poor awareness of how the world has changed,

With all the social elements of the PS4 presentation, they've proven that they are aware.

a very dinosaur like company, they should've been the ones pushing online instead of resisting it, putting out a smart phone, setting up a decent store way before but they just play catch up, and in a bad way.

Well part of the reason they have been playing catch up is the way MS entered the console market. MS entered the console market halfway through last gen bringing features that really wouldn't have been possible at the start of the last gen. Microsoft also got the jump on them this gen by releasing early. As for the smart phone bit, MS are equally guilty of this. You implied in another post that Sony should have been the ones to release the Iphone and Ipad which is a bit of a worthless observation. Those are not particularly innovative devices. A touchscreen smartphone and a touchscreen tablet existed before those did. Apple just copied them and made some changes, which is what you're complaining about Sony doing. I will admit that Apple have some geniuses working in marketing for them.

In summary, I stated my observation, I would've thought even the most ardent Sony fan could accept PS3 had many failures

I never said that they didn't.

It's like you just singled out a few words and react and then quote some more with replies not relating to anything.

I initially responded to your claim that the PS2 was a failure (which it wasn't) and the fact that you claimed that sony had no clue how to serve the west while you demonstrated a lack of knowledge about Japan. Perhaps if your original post was better written, I would have had a better understanding of what you were trying to say. Don't expect people to read your mind.

This is not an attack on Sony, I own and bought a PS3, I don't sub to xbox live,

I don't care what you own or do not own. That isn't what this has been about.
 
You've just agreed with me many times. From a devs point of view its a problem, manifested in late games, no dlc, broken games, inferior games and even no game appearing and you acknowledged and agree but then say you wouldn't class it as a problem.
Yes I agreed with you, because its pointless arguing for the sake of it. Also, any console or even a PC is subject to games being late, Sony are not alone here.
Broken games? By this I assume you mean hacked, and people hack games on any other system just as much as the PS.
Inferior games? I'll accept this. Some multi-platform games are inferior on the PS3 than tr 360.
It's not that it's not a problem, but these are not problems that are exclusive to the PS3.
I'm sorry, I can't really understand the point of your reply.

And you ask for appreciation of Sony's move, I actually opened up with it.

"On a side note, I'm pleased they've gone a more pc route"

it's obvious now a couple will just post out of habbit, blank out the failures or agree but exclude it. Like they know but feel they should defend anyway.
Of course I know the failures. But I also realise the accomplishments. I'm not defending Sony, I have said numerous times that the architecture of the PS3 was far too complicated. They went for all out power hoping that the support would be there in terms of development, they were wrong. As such have created a system that is as easy to make games for as a PC. What exactly is wrong with that? They must have thought they could have destroyed MS by releasing a more powerful machine, realised they couldn't, accepted there mistake and involved the dev's directly in the creation of there next system.
Again, really random of you to say, "to think that any other company do, is a joke".

I've not said or inferred other companies care.
This wasn't really a reply to you, sorry it was taken like that. Is was just a comment made in haste.
 
Hopefully it means the same or similar to as it is now. All the big games available on both formats, with the smaller developers allowed to go download only.

What will be annoying is if a AAA game is released download only, and they will be expecting us to pay full retail price for it.
 
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dhandeh
Hopefully it means the same or similar to as it is now. All the big games available on both formats, with the smaller developers allowed to go download only.

What will be annoying is if a AAA game is released download only, and they will be expecting us to oat full retail price for it.

Yeah if you look on PS Store now they are asking for £59.99 for some new releases, £20 sometimes £30 more than you can buy them off the internet, or in the supermarket for.
 
Yeah if you look on PS Store now they are asking for £59.99 for some new releases, £20 sometimes £30 more than you can buy them off the internet, or in the supermarket for.

Apparently the reason for that price is to keep brick and mortar retailers happy so they don't refuse to stock PS3 games. If a game isn't available on disc I'd be surprised if Sony price it as high, but you never know.


Edit: sorry about the mobile link, but http://m.edge-online.com/news/ps4-and-how-it-changes-blockbuster-game-development/
 
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It never really caught on (and neither did DVD-A) because for some reason the world preferred lossy MP3 music rather than something actually higher quality than standard CD. Baffling why but that's what happened.

mp3 is free, sacd is overprived. why do you think it never caught on?
 
dhandeh
Hopefully it means the same or similar to as it is now. All the big games available on both formats, with the smaller developers allowed to go download only.

What will be annoying is if a AAA game is released download only, and they will be expecting us to oat full retail price for it.

I don't mind AAA games being download only. However, what I do mind is games not depreciate like they did last gen. Yes I know there are legal reasons for that, but I don't want it to become a trend.
 
Plus if SACD was overpriced for what it is (higher quality than CD) then legal MP3 downloads are terribly overpriced considering they're usually not much less than CD but lower quality. Yet legal MP3 sales are booming, which was my point.
 
Rumor: PS4 CPU to be clocked at 2 GHz.

PS4 Daily
Previous leaks put the clock speed at 1.6 GHz, but that was for development kits. The final clock speed for the 8-core AMD CPU will be bumped up 2 GHz according to our source. On top of that, the source reports that both the CPU and the GPU will be manufactured at 28nm at GlobalFoundries’ Fab 8 in New York — GlobalFoundries is co-owned by AMD.
 
PS3 vs PS4 specs:

link: http://www.shacknews.com/article/77974/comparing-ps3-and-ps4-specs-what-it-means-for-everyday

ps3vsps4_24826.nphd.jpg
 
Sorry - the Escapist people make their living from attempting to be funny about games etc. It's the people who play games that have made a lot of game devs wary to try the new - this whole sub-culture of whinging at every little detail that fails to meet their personal specifications...and breathe... which is the real cause. There is the global economy, which makes experimentation far riskier - also, devs need to make more money, due to the costs being hedged by that ecomony.
Well, I could start a chicken-egg debate about who's at fault - gamers for buying rehashed stuff or rehashed stuff that leaves gamers little choice but to buy it, should they wish to cover certain genres with semi-decent games. But I won't, as that really go a bit too far.

I'm also well aware of the fact that the Escapist isn't presenting information objectively or even attempts serious journalism - at least not with Jim Sterling's JimQuisition, but that's not really what I turned towards it for. What I said was that it reflects my opinion on the current situation of the gaming industry and I thought that the PS4 (and, most likely, the next Xbox) aren't breaking that trend, at all.

Nice roundup of all the negative.

Now wheres the positive?
Now, I did realise that the focus is heavily on the negative. It's only on the negativ, really. Which is... Not that bad, I think. It does clash with this thread, though. This is my personal perception as someone who's quite sceptical of the new generation of consoles and also a bit wary of the whole "sell old concepts as revolutionary stuff" thing that's loved by video game developers and console manufacturers alike. But, that perception is that, while news sites and such might be overly negative, the general audience seems overly positive.

Not specifically on here, on GTPlanet. Okay, for some folks on here, this might very well be true, but that's besides the point. No, what I'm getting at is that the hype train is going strong. Very strong, indeed. Which is hardly suprising. Sony is likely doing it's best to ensure just that. Only natural, of course, but I like that some gaming sites are going in the other direction. It might help to alleviate the effects of the hype a little, which I do perceive as a good thing.
 
EA investor’s focus meeting

EA
-“We are excited about Sony’s news”

-“At EA we have never been so prepared for a new generation”

-“Not being at PS Meeting was not indicative at all. We’re maintaining a balance between other parties.”

-“Between now and E3 you will see a lot from us… I’ve seen the new Battlefield and it is stunning. It is just amazing what the imagination of the game developers are allowed to do with that much power.”

-“[PS4 and next Xbox are] between 8 and 10 times the power [of previous gen]“

-“We no longer have to constrain our games. 1080p, 60FPS… [there will be a] level of gameplay that is unprecedented.”

-“[There are] new IPs that we are building for this [upcoming] console generation.”

-“100mil [has been spent on next gen] R&D. [EA will] moderate costs through cutbacks [(worrying)]“

-“[EA is] assuming MS and Sony are more aligned in release dates.” [Basically saying the 720 will be out this holiday].

-“Games have been in development for the past year” [for next gen]

-”5-10% increase in cost [of next gen development]… “but cost will increase in the future as the games get bigger.”

-“We had too many titles… now less but bigger”

-On next gen game costs – “We haven’t set price, but you will probably see a similar trend [where prices go up $10, but then fall back down]“

-On microtransactions: “We’re building into all our games the ability to pay for more, to unlock faster… trucks, levels, etc. microtransactions. Consumers love that.”
iqrb8.gif
 
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I am NOT paying $70 for a god damn game. Ever. $60 is bad enough.
 
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