PLZ no more Expensive Cars in GT7

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 7' started by uwrecker, Aug 3, 2020.

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Are extremly expensive cars a mistake?

  1. Yes huge mistake, all cars should be achivable for everybody.

    46.8%
  2. Nah I like it, not everybody should be able to get the cars.

    53.2%
  1. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    Just out of curiosity, I totalled how many hours I've spent grinding in GTS. Daily marathon never gave me anything more expensive than the Veneno, so I had to buy all the expensive cars manually. Thankfully GT League keeps a record of the number of races won so this makes it easier. The race time are from memory so they might be off a bit, but for this purpose it's good enough.

    Premium Lounge BMB = 275 wins x 12.5 mins = 3437.5 mins
    Nostalgic Sarthe = 165 wins x 7 mins = 1155 mins
    X2014 Sarthe = 60 wins x 9 mins = 540 mins
    Total = 5132.5 mins = 85.5 hours or just over 3.5 days of continuous driving :eek: :lol:

    The scary thing is, that number could be much higher if I didn't take advantage of the Nordschleife pitlane bug before that got patched. I bought all the cars in the vanilla game (before January 2018 update) this way so that saved me many hours. Of course, if I had known the Lewis DLC is coming I wouldn't have needed to grind so much back then but it is what it is.

    I don't know about some people here, but spending 80+ hours repeating the same race again and again is just not good gameplay, no matter how you try to spin it. I have 150 hours in Assetto Corsa according to Steam, and NONE of that is spent doing career race or grinding. It's all just pure having fun trying out cars and track mods. Now that is quality gameplay. Pretty much the whole first year of me playing GTS is basically just grinding grinding grinding. I didn't even get to do any Sport mode until the second year - which is supposed to be the main draw of the game. How dumb is that? A lot of people who don't have as much free time or patience as I do would give up long before that, and I would totally understand.

    I don't think the "expensive" cars should be handed out on a plate, but there is such a thing as too much grinding, to the point that it ruins the reward:effort ratio. Older GTs were reasonable in this regard due to the various ways of earning money quickly (see my post on first page), but I think GTS just falls on the wrong side of that. GT7 just need to make it more balanced and we're good :tup:
     
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  2. 05XR8

    05XR8

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    Grinding was also different, in that, we could acquire gift cars after races. I would repeat the oval race in GT3 to get all four colours of the TOM'S X540. I had to repeat multiple times as would get the same colour after completion.

    If GT Sport used the wheel after each race, at least the reward to collect each car on the wheel, would make GT League worth the effort.
     
  3. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    I think GT7 will have better economy because it will be a Numbered game, and this is where people get :confused: with GT Sport. GT Sport is not a Numbered game with less cars and no parts to buy with credits, and they still complain about the game economy :crazy:.

    In GT6 the game economy was very good with the daily login bonus when the server was up, but GT6 had heap of more cars with parts and other things to buy using credits. Hey and you still need to Grind & Grind the Red Bull events and the seasonal races over & over, to get them cars that you want.
     
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  4. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows

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    This is not a good excuse.

    At what point do you get tired looking down at everyone on your high horse who (correctly) tells you that you don't know jack **** about how the in game economy works, and how it's an absolute joke, especially in a game that is ostensibly about online racing? Especially when it has been shown, time and time again, that you will use every trick in the book in order to get the money needed to buy these vehicles, including exploits. Does that not show you why the in game economy is bad, or are you that bull-headed?

    Knowing how you operate, it seems you really are that bull-headed.

    lmao no they don't, this is some delusional levels of spin to justify microtransactions that shouldn't be in the game to begin with. But then again, that's the GT forum in a nutshell. Whatever Polyphony does can be justified, yet if another developer (especially Turn 10/Playground with Forza) does it, then they're the devil.

    Look at where Kaz is on the board of Playstation. The fact that they are one of the few remaining Japanese first party studios in the Playstation stable. They will get the money no matter what, certainly not from microtransactions that only exist to offer people an easy way out of the ****** economy they've built.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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  5. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    I know you're one of the staunch supporters of "grinding is good" in this thread, and like many others I'll have to disagree here. Just because it's not a numbered game doesn't make it any less valid. PD treats it as a full release and it will be judged as such. There's less cars but if money is harder to come by, it's the same issue.

    There are no parts upgrades, but that's been replaced by the stage 1/2/3 upgrades for power and weight. And worse of all it's using a different currency - mileage. Have you seen the cost of upgrading the 20 million cars to stage 3? It's around 66,000 mileage points. Thankfully, you can grind mileage using Tomahawk at Blue Moon online in autodrive. According to kudosprime I grinded 150,000 km just for mileage to tune all cars. At 23 seconds per 3.22 km lap, that's another 297.6 hours of grinding.

    Yes in previous games you also had to grind. But the grind is not as bad because of all the myriad of factors I said in my post on first page. This is the issue you're not getting. Grinding a certain amount is okay. But there is a point where it gets too much. And in GTS it's too much. GT7 needs to strike a better balance and not just cater to you, a single person among millions, no matter how hard you try to defend it over the last 10 pages.

    I hope that makes sense ;)
     
  6. Samus

    Samus

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    GT Sport has more cars than GT3 and the total cost of the cars is more than I'd wager all but GT5 and GT6 without looking it up. Whether it has a number or not is irrelevant to the economy.
     
  7. FoRiZon

    FoRiZon

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    The problem with the economy is that it seems that it caters with no updates in mind, which means that the most expensive cars is the Aston Martin Vulkan with the price of 3.3 Million. That is still a piece of work to achieve that credits mind you, just like achieving for 20 million on GT5/6 when the server were still on.

    Partially explains the sudden 20 million Cr limit for no reason despite GT6 being at 50 Million.

    Another is the lack of daily bonuses and.....broken kind of rewards. What the hell was PD thinking of when they decided that the GT League rewards is more rewarding than an Online Daily and even Sport Cup races?!
     
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  8. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    Exactly, the game was never intended to have 20 million dollar cars.
     
  9. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    I thought you said there was nothing wrong with GTS's economy?
    GT5 was a numbered game, and the economy was terrible.
    Fewer, not less. And in any case GT Sport has more cars than GT1 and GT3 (and two to three times the number of buyable cars), which were both numbered games.

    As for the parts argument again:

    And in GT Sport you still have to buy engine tuning parts and vehicle weight upgrades - the most expensive parts in previous GT games - but not for money, for Mileage Points. Some of the most expensive cars require you to drive 400 miles (in any car) to fully upgrade them. To upgrade everything is something in the region of 20,000 miles.
    GT6's game economy was mediocre, partly thanks to the fact that Sony wanted you to pay real money to buy credits, but the login bonus, the vehicle handicap bonus, and occasional high value seasonals masked how slow it was. Try it now and you'll see it for what it is (or you'll act like it's fine).

    The GT last game to balance off the number of cars you could buy with the amount of money you earned from doing the races, so that grinding was an option if you wanted to just run the most efficient tactic but unnecessary if you simply did every race in the game at least one, was GT3.

    Since then, the number of cars has ballooned (GT4 gets a partial free pass from me, because most of the cars were available from the start in Arcade Mode) and both the numbers of events and amount that they pay have not increased by the same amount. PS3 era was an absolute horror show, and GT Sport is better in some aspects but worse in others; there's 301 races in the game, and to buy all the most expensive cars you should ignore 298 of them and do the other three more than 800 times. Which is stupid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  10. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    A surefire indicator that the economy is completely broken!
     
  11. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    @Famine you do not fully understand do you, when PD brings out a Gran Turismo game that has a credit system in it, you got to accept remember accept on what credit payouts you get in a game if you like it or not ok.
    Grinding you just have to accept it in a game and there is nothing you can do about it if you don't like Grinding, unless you buy them cars you want at the PS store. Buying the cars at the PS store is going to save you from Grinding a lot, but you still need to Grind to get the unicorns you want.

    So whatever PD gives us for GT7 involving the credits, you just have to accept the payouts, and if you need to Grind the race over & over well you have to do it.
     
  12. McLaren

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    There seems to be a continued point being shared here & you ignore it every time.

    Sure, a game may force me to progress in a way that I realistically can do nothing about it. But, that doesn't mean I have to agree with the way that progress is carried out, & I am allowed to voice my views on it as such. With the fantastic opportunity of the internet, I am able to voice such displeasure to the game's community & if there's enough unison, a developer can take those grievances into account & either change them through updates or the next title.

    It's easily the applicable situation here: Enough GT fans are not happy with the game's economy & are voicing their displeasure together. Will PD make changes? Who knows, but it's been verified they're aware of the forum, so it's not outside reach.

    This whole, "You just have to accept whatever decision a developer goes with" is absurd & surefire way for a game to lose support if enough fans are vocal about it. I don't have to accept PD's decision that the only way the economy can reward players is through grinding the same races over & over, and I can do so by choosing not to buy another GT game until I see changes have been made.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  13. polysmut

    polysmut Premium

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    I think the point being made is that it's poor game design.
     
  14. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Your posts are particularly hard to understand, given your bizarre use of the language, and circular arguments that amount to "this is how it is because this is how it is", but no. The only person who doesn't understand what's going on here is you - everyone else is discussing the game economy in Gran Turismos past (including the expensive cars), while you're lobbing in some incomprehensible gibberish about grinding being a thing you have to do in Gran Turismo because grinding is a thing and so is Gran Turismo therefore you have to grind in Gran Turismo...

    ... and, lest we all forget, you're the one guy in the conversation who cheated because they didn't accept grinding.

    Yes, I'm sure we all got to accept remember accept on. But you're missing the point almost willfully now.

    Gran Turismo hasn't always been about the grind. In fact in the first three GT games, there was no grind - or at least not one that was necessary. It wasn't really until GT4 (and its 720+ cars, region depending) that grinding was something that was in Gran Turismo, and that game at least let you drive almost all the cars in Arcade Mode without buying them. In GT5, GT6, and GT Sport, there is a clear grind mechanism, with hundreds of races needed to buy the most expensive cars; GT5 and GT6 ameliorated it somewhat with bonuses for daily logins, but GT5 was still piss poor (and the cars locked behind an XP wall too) even when it was online. You'd think that GT Sport - which didn't have an offline campaign to start with - would use similar mechanisms and reward players for driving in Sport mode, but no...

    It's simply not necessary for a GT game to have a tedious grind in it. Yes, GT5, GT6, and GT Sport have had one, but it looks quite like a lot of people don't want GT7 to have one. This is what the thread is about; not just "PLZ no more expensive cars in GT7", as it started out, but asking that the next game has no more unbalanced game economy. Obviously whatever PD comes out with for GT7 is how it'll be for GT7 - and there's absolutely no need to point that out because it is so patently clear that we have to play what the game developers design in order to play the game, but you keep on falling back on that as your basic argument - but that doesn't mean that players want it, especially if it's more of the tedium from 5/6/S. And if the game part of the game turns players off, the series has a dimmer future.


    ... and, lest we all forget, you're the one guy in the conversation who cheated because they didn't accept grinding.

    Buying every car you can buy in PS Store will cost something in the region of £300 (on a £12 game), and saves you rather less time than you think.

    Buying all the ones you can't buy in PS Store will still cost 137.5m credits. That's 367 repeats of the Blue Moon Bay race, taking roughly 72 hours of nothing but driving an oval. That is, for reference, more time than it would take to buy every car in GT1, GT2, GT3 and GT4... combined.

    ... and, lest we all forget, you're the one guy in the conversation who cheated because they didn't accept grinding.

    Obviously whatever PD comes out with for GT7 is how it'll be for GT7 - and there's absolutely no need to point that out because it is so patently clear that we have to play what the game developers design in order to play the game, but you keep on falling back on that as your basic argument - but that doesn't mean that players want it, especially if it's more of the tedium from 5/6/S. And if the game part of the game turns players off, the series has a dimmer future.


    ... and, lest we all forget, you're the one guy in the conversation who cheated because they didn't accept grinding.
     
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  15. Samus

    Samus

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    Or....we can collectively tell them as consumers we don't accept it and pressure them into changing it. Or we can just not buy the game as a way to show them. Have you seriously never seen that concept in.....any aspect of your life? You just accept everything as given?
     
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  16. tbc21

    tbc21

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    Some time ago, I made my peace with grinding. With a decent setup and some basic skills, you can do the BMB race in the X-Bow in slightly under 12min with a payout of 375.000 (with clean race bonus) each time. If you do it like 3x a day (36min), you'll get your unicorn in about 18 days. That's far from impossible in my opinion.
     
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  17. Samus

    Samus

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    Impossible? Obviously not. Absurd? Absolutely.
     
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  18. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    It is nowhere near being absurd because you are going to do the same or similar thing playing GT7, and players have to Grind & Grind to get the cars they need. You don't Grind in GT7 well buy them cars at the PS store but with the unicorn cars in GT7, you still need to Grind the races that have good payouts over & over.
     
  19. Samus

    Samus

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    Again, when did you play GT7?
     
  20. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    How can you possibly think that this is a sensible point? The word "because" means "for the reason that". You're stating that having to do the same race 800 times in GT Sport isn't an absurd proposition because you'll also have to do it in GT7.

    Aside from the fact you have absolutely no idea what it'll be like in GT7 (you're going to bring up the fact it's a numbered game again, but ignore that GT, GT2, and GT3 were all numbered games and didn't require you to do this) and it'll still be absurd if it is in the game, this isn't reasoning. They're two completely unconnected things you've just smashed together.

    It's like saying tomatoes aren't red because cucumbers aren't either. It's just gibberish, bereft of any kind of thinking whatsoever.

    Having to do the same race 800 times is an absurdity. So is defending it.
     
  21. IXON009

    IXON009

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    Exactly what I was thinking. Up to 2 or 3 millions is fair enough, since most of the cars (from ~10k Cr. to up to 3M Cr.) are based on - I guess - real prices. But there's no point of having 20M Cr. cars - except when you're Rockstar and want your players to pay for those ingame items with real $ :lol: Yeah I'm looking at you shark cards and million dollar Civic :yuck:
     
  22. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

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    And if you have to grind nearly as much in GT7 as you do in GT Sport that I will say that is absured as well.

    You do realise your entire agument is a fallacy don't you? I'm beginning to think you're just trolling now. Something isn't okay just because that's the way it is.
     
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  23. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows

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    At what point does our friend here get banned? The argument he's participating in is basically going in circles, confusing the actual debate (which has been fruitful) being had about GT's economy and how prize cars and credits is dolled out.
     
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  24. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    He hasn't done anything specifically bannable yet.
     
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  25. eran0004

    eran0004

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    Seems like a good balance. I wouldn’t want the progress to be too easy.
     
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  26. Tricky Vega

    Tricky Vega

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    After all I like better grinding a few races in GT Sport instead of reading that thread going in circles weeks after weeks !! :lol::lol:

    The time you've spent reading the whole thread's posts you could have earned around 3 millions cr. in the GT League :banghead:

    I've been back on GT6 for a month and a half now, and without the login bonus the game economy is at least slow (at worst awful).

    But I don't care, I'm just having fun looking for the most balanced opposition for a 5 laps' race on the Circuito de la Sierra with the Zonda R, when it's not with a handicaped Formula Gran Turismo.

    I'm liking saying that I've been grinding for weeks and for zéro crédits.

    :gtpflag:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2020
  27. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    Yes mate GT6 is slow because of the economy but it is fun to play, and to Grind the Red bull over & over and other events as well for credits to buy them cars that you need.

    GT Sport has got a good economy and GT7 will most likely to be the same but with a little more credits to earn.
    For GT7 if you want them cars in the game there are 2 things you can do.
    No.1 Grind the race over & over that pays good credits.
    No.2 Buy the cars with real money at the Playstation store.
    So no matter what you do you still need to Grind to get them 20 million credit cars if you like it or not.

    Why have a progress in a game for getting credits easy, it should be a challenge a real challenge for getting credits and not get everything in the game in 5 minutes. If a player spends less time playing well you can not Blame the game economy can you, and if the player that plays more is going love the economy like in GT Sport.

    In GT Sport to get a 1 million credits in just over 30 minutes from winning races is dam good, and for GT7 and it will be more than 1 million credits in 30 minutes of play, but we need to see what PD gives us. So whatever happens in GT7 you will still need to Grind.
    Remember whatever PD dishes out for us for GT7 you just have to accept on what economy we get in the game, if you like it or not.
     
  28. Silver Arrows

    Silver Arrows

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    If this is how cars are to be earned in GT7, since you're an expert and have seemingly an alpha copy, post a video then. Lets see if it's true.

    The irony of this is, is that you're probably right, and Polyphony probably will see how GT Sport worked and think it is a good idea to continue it, because Polyphony is a pack of morons who believed putting a credit cap behind a purchasable DLC pack, instead of putting it in a quality of life patch like 99% of developers on this planet, was a good idea, and people lapped it up here. That, and it has been shown that they are a company that doesn't really care to fix problems until they reach a boiling point because why bother when you're the favorite native son of a Japanese company, first and foremost, and the figurehead is on the Playstation board?

    But aside from that snark and glass half empty outlook, lets say that this is true. Why does a game need to have 20 million credit cars when the vast majority of content is online, where such expensive cars are rarely used, and basically serve as status symbols for people who are willing to subject themselves to mind numbing grinding of Blue Moon Bay in the XBow (or in your case, using exploits and cheats, and flaunting that proudly while taking a holier then thou approach) and where there really is no point in gating vehicles behind a play wall like credits anyway? As I've mentioned before, what point is there in making Group vehicles require credits when the ever shifting nature of BOP means you're essentially asking people to either grind (which I guarantee you most of the people playing the online portion of GT Sport religiously aren't going to do) or buy vehicles via PSN (which is utterly mad, and another bit of hypocrisy on this forum, but that is unrelated)?

    I'd get the grind if the 20 million credit vehicles in GT Sport actually have a point and a use, but they don't. They are effectively status symbols. So as such, why should I bother getting them, when getting them means dealing with moronic AI in mind numbing races (Yet another problem that Polyphony still hasn't and probably will never fix!) just to have them serve no real purpose because the name of the game is Nations Cup/Daily Races and FIA events, where they are never used? This isn't Destiny or The Division, where grinding is the name of the game if you want good loot, but at the very least, I know that I'm going to get *a* use out of the loot I get, whether it be directly or not, and at least I can play with my friends and shoot the ****. Can't do that in GT Sport.

    But of course, all of this is just circular, isn't it? You'll continue with this frankly bonkers argument that just because it is, means it is fine and shouldn't be changed. People will once again point out that you cheated (and used exploits) to get to your position in the argument, and you'll pull some sobbing song about your disabilities that mean absolutely nothing in this argument and serves to jack up your high horse.

    That's how it always goes in any thread that does to do with GT Sport and now 7's economy that you butt into, and the issue of grinding that shouldn't be there.
     
  29. Samus

    Samus

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    Show me one person, just one, who says they want to obtain everything in five minutes.

    Oh, and rubber banding your controller overnight or parking your car at the entrance to the pit lane for a glitch is not a challenge, Is it?
     
  30. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

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    Did he claim someone said 'they want to obtain everything in five minutes'?
    I must have missed it.

    That's funny. :)
    Oh wait. You're serious. :lol: