Political Correctness

[VBR]

You really think so? You really think comparing a university in ANY even moderately free country to North Korea has any chance of being even slightly accurate?

No, I don't really think so. I've already stated what I actually think in the sentence preceding the one you quoted;

Seeing as I'm not personally familiar with the situation being described & discussed regarding US college campuses back then, I'd rather refrain from making a judgement about that. Maybe he was exaggerating, maybe he wasn't.

Jordan Peterson is very controversial, and you'd honestly be better just making any points yourself rather than linking to him directly. For example, I won't watch his videos because some of the stuff he says is so awful that it's just an unpleasant experience. Maybe this isn't one of those, but he lost me some time ago.

Some people find him controversial, others do not, & as long as I'm not breaking the GT Planet AUP I'll link directly to whatever videos I want to. If you personally find some aspects of his talks 'awful' then it's probably best to continue not watching them rather than advising other people not to post them (unless you wanted to give the impression that you are in some way against freedom of speech...).

People are going to make judgments on the source about whether it's a productive use of their time when you're talking about a 27 minute video, and that's pretty fair. If there's relevant stuff in there, you can summarise it.

Thank you ever so much for your kind suggestion that I watch the video on behalf of other people & then 'summarise it' for them. Thanks but no thanks!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Thank you ever so much for your kind suggestion that I watch the video on behalf of other people & then 'summerise it' for them.

If you haven't watched the video then why post it? It also seems commonly accepted here (though not in the AUP, granted) that if you're going to post such a long video it's fair enough to summarise it. Otherwise your point gets missed - why would anybody want to watch 30 mins of video on a forum format where digesting even the largest post is usually work of minutes?

 

[VBR]

If you haven't watched the video then why post it?

When I posted the video I said it was 'interesting', so how could I have found it so if I had not actually watched it in the first place as you have falsely assumed?

It also seems commonly accepted here (though not in the AUP, granted) that if you're going to post such a long video it's fair enough to summarise it. Otherwise your point gets missed - why would anybody want to watch 30 mins of video on a forum format where digesting even the largest post is usually work of minutes?

I see no evidence of that being a 'commonly accepted' practice on this forum. I guess people would only watch the video if they were genuinely interested & had the time.

 

[UKMikey]

If you haven't watched the video then why post it? It also seems commonly accepted here (though not in the AUP, granted) that if you're going to post such a long video it's fair enough to summarise it. Otherwise your point gets missed - why would anybody want to watch 30 mins of video on a forum format where digesting even the largest post is usually work of minutes?

I see no evidence of that being a 'commonly accepted' practice on this forum.

Hmmm...

I'm not likely to watch an 18 minute Youtube video posted as a response to four words in a thread, especially with no context or interpretation from yourself. I see that sort of tactic a lot from people with relatively strong and inflexible views on this forum on both ends of the spectrum, and it doesn't help anyone. If you want to articulate a view, do it yourself. If you can't do that then I'd suggest taking a closer look at those views. Personally I've changed or softened my opinions many times when faced with having to explain them to others, because it forced me to reflect on those views.

What was your comment, or are we expected to just sit and watch a ten minute video?

If someone can share on Wikipedia the entire plot of Venom that currently requires you to go to a theater to see, you can summarize a 16 minute video and share exactly what it's conveying to us. Best yet, if it's on Netflix, you can pause it to keep up with its content. We do it here on video games & other media all the time. I have not played GT Sport, but I have read enough posts from hundreds of users to get an idea of the game and what it contains.

You're smart enough to do the same for the rest of us to share your video reference.

 

[Imari]

No, I don't really think so. I've already stated what I actually think in the sentence preceding the one you quoted;

You said that you're refraining from judgement because you lack the information to do so. Which means that you think it within the realms of possibility that it could be an accurate statement that many US universities are small ivy-bound North Koreas, instead of dismissing it as obvious hyperbole.

Now it's entirely possible that your education and experience in the world is so poor that you simply don't know enough about a western style educational system to spot the colossal flaw in the comparison of an American university to a repressive totalitarian regime, but I thought it fair to give you the benefit of assuming that you had at least a basic understanding of how the world works.

Some people find him controversial, others do not, & as long as I'm not breaking the GT Planet AUP I'll link directly to whatever videos I want to. If you personally find some aspects of his talks 'awful' then it's probably best to continue not watching them rather than advising other people not to post them (unless you wanted to give the impression that you are in some way against freedom of speech...).

It was advice as to what might be a more productive way to share your viewpoint, assuming that that was your actual goal. You are of course free to do as you wish. I'm sure Jordan Peterson appreciates the free advertising.

Thank you ever so much for your kind suggestion that I watch the video on behalf of other people & then 'summarise it' for them. Thanks but no thanks!

Well, one assumes that you've watched it already, no? And you posted it presumably with specific points from it in mind. It's therefore probably not a huge undertaking for you to simply note those down for people, but of course you're free to present Jordan Peterson's points in any way you wish.

Honestly, based on how you're making it as hard as possible for people I think you're just looking for some internet sparring rather than an actual sharing of ideas. Each to their own. May it make you happy.

 

[VBR]

...I think you're just looking for some internet sparring...

Please, allow me the opportunity to demonstrate to you that this simply isn't true.

 

[Sander 001]

Summarizing Jordan Peterson ideas is what Jordan Peterson fanboys don’t want. Because when you strip the hot air verbal diarrhoea away, all you’re left with are the outdated ideas that finish 16th place at a high school debate competition. And that’s being generous.

 

[TexRex]

I've despised PC for as long as I can remember,

To your mind*, just what is "political correctness"? What is the aim of its proponents and how does it accomplish that? What do you despise about it?

*Which is to say not the mind of someone else who wrote an article or uploaded a video. Given your assertive stance on the subject, that you make your own arguments shouldn't be a tough ask.

 

[VBR]

http://nypost.com/2017/05/31/college-melts-down-over-plan-for-white-people-free-day-on-campus/

"Protestors" at Evergreen State College called for a "day without white people" and melted down over a white professor attending the school that day after he refers to the day as, "an act of oppression in and of itself". Consequently he, and apparently others according to the video, were barraged with a stream of profanities from hysterical students and deemed a racist. Of course now they want him fired. The Chief of Police has told him it's no longer safe for him to be on campus. Students claim the video was stolen by "white supremacists" and should be taken down.

Eric Weinstein is the brother of Bret Weinstein, the Prof who caused all the controversy at Evergreen College. He's an incredibly intellegent man.

Mike Nayna made a documentary about it with lots of behind the scenes footage from faculty meetings as well as mobile phone footage & interviews with Bret Weinstein. It's interesting to see the other side of the story...

 

[TexRex]

Ah, so he is just the sort to post videos and make no effort to engage in discussion. It's really not surprising given what he's peddling.

 

[VBR]

It's official, we now have 'the thought police' here in the UK.

Spoiler: The Long Version...

@Johnnypenso @PeterJB @Dotini

An organization called Fair Cop has been set up to fight this nonsense: https://www.faircop.org.uk/

 

[Dennisch]

Hurr I have nothing to hide durr.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's official, we now have 'the thought police' here in the UK.

Spoiler: The Long Version...

@Johnnypenso @PeterJB @Dotini

An organization called Fair Cop has been set up to fight this nonsense: https://www.faircop.org.uk/



View attachment 881358

Are you saying that intent has nothing to do with the evaluation of actions? It's just that it's been a basis of British law for a very long time. From your posting in this thread are you claiming that this proves the existence of the "political correctness" bogeyman that scares you so much?

 

[TexRex]

I think he's demonstrated he's not just looking for some internet sparring; it's really more of a punch-and-run sort of thing.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Political correctness issue?

Police and social services in Manchester knew that gangs of Asian men were grooming and exploiting dozens of children in “plain sight” but failed to act against them, a report has concluded.


A report into how the authorities in Manchester handled child sexual exploitation has detailed how Victoria Agoglia, a 15-year-old girl under the care of the city council, had told carers that she was being raped, assaulted and received visits from her “pimp” at her accommodation but was not protected by her guardians.


Victoria also disclosed to her social worker and a substance misuse worker that she was being injected with heroin by an older man but no action was taken. She died in September 2003, five days after being injected with the drug by a 50-year-old Asian man.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...died-amid-grooming-scandal-cover-up-7vsgt67p0

 

[huskeR32]

Political correctness issue?

How so?

 

[baldgye]

How so?

BECAUSE IF THEY WHERE WHITE THEY’D HAVE BEEN PERSECUTED BY WITHIN AN INCH OF THEIR LIVES!!! ...AN INCH!

 

[Tired Tyres]

How so?

Wariness over being perceived as specifically targeting Pakistanis.

 

[baldgye]

Wariness over being perceived as specifically targeting Pakistanis.

As you can see, the British Justice system is setup to go after whites...

 

[Tired Tyres]

As you can see, the British Justice system is setup to go after whites...

View attachment 881773

How does that reflect the ratio of the population?

 

[baldgye]

How does that reflect the ratio of the population?

It's irrelevant!!! If this continues the whole white British race will be imprisoned! And these snowflake-PC robots(!) will make it so we are the minority!


Work with me guys, I'm trying to get hysterical... it seems to be the only state of mind where being nice to people is a genuine fear

 

[HenrySwanson]

How so?

The police and social services turned a blind eye to dozens of victims because they didn't want to appear racist since the vast majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani.

It's irrelevant!!! If this continues the whole white British race will be imprisoned! And these snowflake-PC robots(!) will make it so we are the minority!


Work with me guys, I'm trying to get hysterical... it seems to be the only state of mind where being nice to people is a genuine fear

Are you ok?

 

[TexRex]

The police and social services turned a blind eye to dozens of victims because they didn't want to appear racist since the vast majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani.

To your mind, what is "political correctness"? What is the aim of its proponents and how does it accomplish that?

To identify it you should first be able to define it. It's a bit like intelligence in that regard.

 

[baldgye]

The police and social services turned a blind eye to dozens of victims because they didn't want to appear racist since the vast majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani.

Careful not to sprain something with reaches like that!

As The Times is paywall'd I googled the new article header and found one from The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-says-greater-manchester-abuse-whistleblower

And, by reading the quotes of the people involved... race only seems to be linked in that GMP seem to actually have shown some racism in their discrimination in the original case;

In an emotional statement on Tuesday, Victoria’s grandmother, Joan Agoglia, said the publication of the report was “wonderful, as I’ve been fighting for this all my life it seems” but emphasised the extent to which authorities had not taken concerns raised about the girl’s wellbeing seriously.

“Vicky told me about what this man had done to her. She was so bruised underneath her private parts, you couldn’t believe it. She told me that she had been beaten,” said Agoglia.

Although the operation was shut down in July 2005 because of a lack of resources, Oliver claimed the force viewed the girls as an “underclass”, adding that “these weren’t the chief constable’s daughters”.

Other than that, race seems to play no further part and GMP seem to simply either not care about these rapes/abuse and/or chased other police work;

The Guardian revealed on Tuesday that up to 52 children may have been victims of the sexual abuse ring. Operation Augusta was shut down prematurely partly because senior officers had prioritised solving burglaries and car crime.

She had also worked on Operation Span, an investigation into reports of grooming in Rochdale. She later went public with claims that allegations of rape and sexual abuse were not being recorded by police.

Then there is the ITV report which paints your take in even worse light;

Ms Oliver said when she raised concerns, she was met with "misogyny" and the "old boys' network", described as an "emotional woman" and dismissed as "too involved" with victims.

Via


So no, once again a story you've linked and highlighted as 'PC' has nothing to do with being nice to other people, and rather ironically has everything to do with discrimination...

Are you ok?

I'm sound mate

 

[huskeR32]

The police and social services turned a blind eye to dozens of victims because they didn't want to appear racist since the vast majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani.

Which part of what you posted indicates that was the reason for the supposed "blind eye?" (The article is paywalled for me, so I only have your post to go on.)

 

[HenrySwanson]

Which part of what you posted indicates that was the reason for the supposed "blind eye?" (The article is paywalled for me, so I only have your post to go on.)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...gs-failed-Manchester-police-report-finds.html

 

[TexRex]

How about it, @HenrySwanson? What is political correctness? What are the wants and wills of those who employ it and how does employing it accomplish them?

Unless...answering those questions risks putting you in a position where you can't apply the label as you see fit.

Seems to me that's the beauty of such an ambiguous bogeyman.

 

[HenrySwanson]

How about it, @HenrySwanson? What is political correctness? What are the wants and wills of those who employ it and how does employing it accomplish them?

Unless...answering those questions risks putting you in a position where you can't apply the label as you see fit.

Seems to me that's the beauty of such an ambiguous bogeyman.

I'll reply when on computer. I wasn't ignoring the question it's just that I'm on phone so am limited.

 

[TenEightyOne]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...gs-failed-Manchester-police-report-finds.html

Wow, their quote 'stoke racial tensions' doesn't actually appear in the document. It's almost as if the Daily Mail have made up the source material to suit their story. Would they do such a thing?

There was a catalogue of failures, there's no doubt about that, the primary failure was a crippling lack of resources due to other cases. The commanding officer is clear that they had to consider the effects of investigating a particular racial group (it's bloody obvious to any sensible adult) but that the considerations had no bearing on the course of the investigation. The resourcing issues were exacerbated by fractured divisional command, by Social Services' own issues in supporting victims (and thereby problems in delivering victim testimony to the investigation) and organisational failure in the Local Authority.

Over-sensitivity to the racial profiling of the accused is an easier headline for Mail readers than the sheer lack of police bodies, the lack of LA support, the failings of Social Services at ground level and the effect of Conservative policy on street policing, I'll give you that.

 

[HenrySwanson]

To be fair it's not just the Mail:

https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-sex-abuse-manchester-police-exploitation-asian-a9283146.html?amp&usqp=mq331AQOKAGYAevPwN6cx5O1qAE=&_js_v=a2&_gsa=1#referrer=https://www.google.com&share=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gangs-sex-abuse-manchester-police-exploitation-asian-a9283146.html

But I dunno guys - when you've got Rotherham, Telford, Oxford all saying prosecutions weren't forthcoming in part because of the fear of racism it seems a stretch to say it didn't influence decisions in this case. Especially since a cop in the report contradicts 1081s point that it had no bearing on investigations as they were quoted as saying "What had a massive input (in one particular successful prosecution) was the offending target group were predominantly Asian males and we were told to try and get other ethnicities.”