[POLL] How would you feel about Stealth and Chromeline Cars as DLC?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Akwaaba
  • 196 comments
  • 10,480 views

Should the Stealth and Chromelines Cars be available as DLC?

  • No Way! They shouldn't ever be available as DLC, I have the Collectors/Signature editions, these car

    Votes: 96 32.9%
  • No Way, They shouldn't ever be available as DLC, I don't have the Collectors/Signature editions, the

    Votes: 15 5.1%
  • Not bothered, not interested, don't really want them

    Votes: 51 17.5%
  • Yes Please, I have these by purchasing the Signature edition, and I want another set and will pay $1

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Yes Please, I have these by purchasing the Collectors edition, and I want the set I don't have and w

    Votes: 19 6.5%
  • Yes Please, I already have these, but want another set, I'll pay $15

    Votes: 6 2.1%
  • Yes Please, I don't have any of these and I really want to add these cars to my garage, I'd pay $15

    Votes: 84 28.8%
  • Other - please explain in the thread

    Votes: 20 6.8%

  • Total voters
    292
  • Poll closed .
Or I recognize that including the Chromelines/Stealths in the first place was dishonest exactly like all unlock code, included-on-the-disc-because-it-was-developed-alongside-the-rest-of-the-game DLC is, and thus don't give a damn how dishonest it would be to allow other people to have them later on.
That's fine too.
You agree it would be dishonest then, and that's my whole point.

I do not encourage dishonesty.

I would like to know how it is dishonest to offer a premium package with extra unlocked content on the disc. Please, I have no clue.
PD listed what was in the game, (they lied about things, but that's aside the point here)
PD listed things CE buyers would have, that standard buyers would not have.

I fail to see any dishonesty in that.
 
The rules were, and the rules were widely available to anyone, that you would be rewarded with a special edition Stealth Car for pre-ordering the game. I did that...

Then the other rule was you would get a handful of Chromeline cars in with a bundle of additional exclusive content available for signature and collector editions of the game. I bought the $100 Collector Edition.

These were the rules and these are the stipulations attached this particular group of cars. While technically the content is on the disc and you did buy the disc, those who don't have them did not actually participate to recieve them as playable cars... they have merely participated in seeing me and others who went the extra mile to unlock them in the game enjoy them.

I would think it to be particularly trollish to argue any other viewpoint because the rules to have these cars in your garage was clear as day. To argue that they should be downloaded straight into your garage just because you bought the content to see them but not actually play them and did not participate in the rules to play them is pretty twisted.

By that logic, why don't they just throw every single car model in the game up for DLC? How about those 20,000,000cr cars? Oh yeah, I'd love to see PD try that. As far as I'm concerned, those 20,0000,000cr cars are there for me to see and for other people who have achieved the abilitiy to play them to also enjoy them. Same for the Prototype X1. And oh hell... let's throw the Platinum trophy up for DLC too, why not?
 
The stars have aligned, and I am in total agreement with Deathsarthe.
I find it insane to argue otherwise.

It really seems like a childish "gimmie gimmie" attitude.
 
I would like to know how it is dishonest to offer a premium package with extra unlocked content on the disc. Please, I have no clue.
Because, once again and for the last time, all of that stuff was developed at the same time as everything else that was on the game disc. Everyone paid for it because everyone's $60 went towards GT5's development.

PD only offering it to people who paid extra for special versions of the game is no less unethical than when someone like Capcom releases a bunch of paid DLC available on game launch that is simply an unlock code, because it is the exact same thing. I'm not understanding what the functional disconnect is.


By not having a problem with this, you are literally saying that you don't have a problem with any unlock code DLC; and if that is the case than there is no hope debating this with you.


By that logic, why don't they just throw every single car model in the game up for DLC? How about those 20,000,000cr cars? Oh yeah, I'd love to see PD try that. As far as I'm concerned, those 20,0000,000cr cars are there for me to see and for other people who have achieved the abilitiy to play them to also enjoy them. Same for the Prototype X1. And oh hell... let's throw the Platinum trophy up for DLC too, why not?
Hey. How about you try an analogy that actually makes sense to the argument at hand, instead of strawmen arguments that aren't even remotely comparable.
 
Because, once again and for the last time, all of that stuff was developed at the same time as everything else that was on the game disc. Everyone paid for it because everyone's $60 went towards GT5's development.

PD only offering it to people who paid extra for special versions of the game is no less unethical than when someone like Capcom releases a bunch of paid DLC available on game launch that is simply an unlock code, because it is the exact same thing. I'm not understanding what the functional disconnect is.



Hey. How about you try an analogy that actually makes sense to the argument at hand, instead of strawmen arguments that aren't even remotely comparable.
For this last part, I agree, and say the saem to whatever other game you're talking about.

As mentioned, it has to be on the game disc for others to be able to see it.
I hadn't even thought of that.

So by your rationale, the DLC should all be free too, Tornado? It's in my PS3, so I should be able to play with it all, right?

Or are you seriously suggesting that PD cripple the paying customers use of DLC and extra cars to rooms people who don't have them can't enter? :boggled:
 
Because, once again and for the last time, all of that stuff was developed at the same time as everything else that was on the game disc. Everyone paid for it because everyone's $60 went towards GT5's development.

PD only offering it to people who paid extra for special versions of the game is no less unethical than when someone like Capcom releases a bunch of paid DLC available on game launch that is simply an unlock code, because it is the exact same thing. I'm not understanding what the functional disconnect is.


By not having a problem with this, you are literally saying that you don't have a problem with any unlock code DLC; and if that is the case than there is no hope debating this with you.



Hey. How about you try an analogy that actually makes sense to the argument at hand, instead of strawmen arguments that aren't even remotely comparable.
It is comparable, if you don't see that than I think you're just trolling because you'd rather argue than admitt to what you're really saying because you know it's wrong. 👎
 
By not having a problem with this, you are literally saying that you don't have a problem with any unlock code DLC; and if that is the case than there is no hope debating this with you.
Tell me then, how can a company, in your eyes, offer extra cars in a premium package?
Or do you simply feel entitled to EVERYTHING made by any company for $60 at the time of release?

Tell me how it is unjust for a company to intentionally make extra content for a premium package, or even unlock-code DLC?
Extra content.
Extra
beyond or more than what is usual, expected, or necessary; additional
Content
something that is contained: the contents of a box.
So why is "extra content" dishonest, immoral, or unfair in any way, shape, or form?
 
It is comparable, if you don't see that than I think you're just trolling because you'd rather argue than admitt to what you're really saying because you know it's wrong. 👎

:lol:


You really want me to break it down for you? Because I'm fairly certain you would just ignore it, so I'd rather just cut out the middleman and save us both the time. But if you are going to actually listen, then I would happily do so.


Tell me then, how can a company, in your eyes, offer extra cars in a premium package?
Make it after the game is released. Make it so the content your are paying extra for wasn't developed alongside everything else and is therefore no different than any of the content that you aren't paying extra for. Problem solved.

Or do you simply feel entitled to EVERYTHING made by any company for $60 at the time of release?
Was it completed when the game went gold? Is it on the game disc? Then yes, I am entitled to it because when I bought the game I paid for its development regardless.

Tell me how it is unjust for a company to intentionally make extra content for a premium package, or even unlock-code DLC?
I've attempted to do this several times. You've ignored it each time, just as you've ignored the several times it has been pointed out that the DLC wasn't the only thing included with the various special editions. I'm not exactly sure what you want me to do about it.

Extra content.


So why is "extra content" dishonest, immoral, or unfair in any way, shape, or form?
First tell me why you think this dictionary crap is supposed to do anything but piss me off.
 
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peobryant
I own the Collector's Edition of GT5 and imported the Signature Edition because it wasn't available for purchase in the US. I've been hoping that PD will release these cars to other users for a while now, and honestly I think they should be free. I didn't buy the editions of the game for the Stealth or Chromeline cars, I bought it for the rest of the items that came with it, the cars were just a bonus.

Like I said, I'd have absolutely no problem if PD released a DLC pack with all the Stealth and Chromeline cars for free. We've had 'em long enough, lets let others enjoy them as well.

Parker

I like you.
 
I wouldn't mind the chance to buy them. Not everyone had the money for the SE/CE versions of the game.. or maybe there was even a few like me who didn't even own a PS3 when GT5 was released. I can understand why some people would be upset about it, but then again it is just a video game.
 
First tell me why you think this dictionary crap is supposed to do anything but piss me off.
We are at a disagreement of "extra" in this case. Pretty clearly.
You feel entitled to everything any game company has made at the time of release, that nothing able to be included in the game can be counted as "extra content".
I disagree. We are not entitled to every single thing made, I think if a company wants to design a few cars specifically for extra content (which in this case it's very clear these were developed to be extras) that's fine.

If it were regular cars being essentially taken out of the game to charge extra, I could say you have a point.
But these were very deliberately designed to be extra additions to this game.

You're viewing it as "taken out to charge more" (yet interestingly have failed to say that I've read) instead of "added as a bonus for the special editions".

If it weren't for the idea of adding these to special editions, they probably would not exist.
That's what makes them extra content.

Of course, all this detracts from my original point, that as you admitted, it would unarguably be dishonest to release them as DLC. Just because PD wronged you (which they didn't) doesn't make it right for them to wrong everyone that bought the premium packages.
 
It also doesn't say "exclusive forever" does it?
I knew somebody would say that. :lol:

On the contrary, if it's only going to be exclusive for a limited time, I would expect it to say so.
It's also "limited edition". Or are we going to say "it doesn't say limited edition forever".

You can make little arguments for it all day long, but the fact of the matter is, if people know they can get something cheaper by waiting, some of them will.
If a company repeatedly goes back on it's "exclusive" and "limited edition" products, making them available to the masses, not just ruining the limited edition part, and not just taking the exclusivity away, but also making it cheaper to obtain in the process, the already typically low sales of these said exclusive limited edition items will drop even further.

It's still unarguably dishonest, and probably not a great move for the business aspect of it either.
Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies.
 
I knew somebody would say that. :lol:

On the contrary, if it's only going to be exclusive for a limited time, I would expect it to say so.
It's also "limited edition". Or are we going to say "it doesn't say limited edition forever".

You can make little arguments for it all day long, but the fact of the matter is, if people know they can get something cheaper by waiting, some of them will.
If a company repeatedly goes back on it's "exclusive" and "limited edition" products, making them available to the masses, not just ruining the limited edition part, and not just taking the exclusivity away, but also making it cheaper to obtain in the process, the already typically low sales of these said exclusive limited edition items will drop even further.

It's still unarguably dishonest, and probably not a great move for the business aspect of it either.


Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies.

About the first part, I was just messing with you.:lol:

But in all seriousness, I'm not going to argue with you about whether it's honest or not. At the end of the day, I believe if Sony realized how much money they could make by selling these cars for $1.99 a piece, they would be all over it. Companies have been doing consumers wrong for years, and unless what they try to do affects all their customers (Netflix, who is paying for it now) or has a lot or media attention garnered from it (recently, Verizon), they will continue to do so. Making the exclusive cars DLC would do neither, as I'm sure that there are way more people with the regular game than the Collector's/ Signature Edition, and quite a few of them would love to give Sony their money for these cars. If 1 person was to say "I'm not getting the GT6 Collector's Edition because they sold the DLC cars later" there will be 5 more that will buy it.

To these companies, the bottom line is the bottom line, and honesty is further down the list of priorities.

PS: I own the Collector's Edition
 
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Doesn't really bother me I have the standard gt5 and theres nothing really special about them performance wise so meh. It would just be another lackluster dlc car pack like the last ones to me. Anyway you guys got your fancy box and fancy book and other fancy crap they gave you, if sony/pd want to release them for sale they will but to be honest I don't think they would sell well as they are just reskins of freely available cars. So I don't think you got good value from the CE and SE if you feel the cars are the highest value items.
 
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such editions are called editions because they are kind of exclusive etc... so the cars shouldn't be available later...
i guess it is nice when people have cars they can be proud of because not all have them...
I really would love to have that "camaro edge special"...but though i don't have an american account i can't have it....
I accepted this and congrat all who have that car...
 
Doesn't really bother me I have the standard gt5 and theres nothing really special about them performance wise so meh. It would just be another lackluster dlc car pack like the last ones to me. Anyway you guys got your fancy box and fancy book and other fancy crap they gave you, if sony/pd want to release them for sale they will but to be honest I don't think they would sell well as they are just reskins of freely available cars. So I don't think you got good value from the CE and SE if you feel the cars are the highest value items.
I agree with this guy on some points...

This DLC proved its value at the time it was offered, IMO. That was over a year ago, they're pretty much old news now. It would be sort of an injustice to release these as future DLC rather than revitalizing interest in the game with actual new content along the same lines the Volkswagons (Siccoro and GTI), 2012 GTR, and FT-86.

However, I was really looking forward to getting my Steath F1 and Nascar (although the Nascar didn't really pay off, but at least I don't have to buy one) and of course the Murcielago remains one of my favorite cars from the pack.

For me the DLC was the biggest pay off of the whole package. You read book... what maybe three or four times if you're really that interested in it. I'm also paranoid as hell I'll lose the key chain so it remains safely in the box. And since the model is a GTR and not a McLaren F1 or something appealing to me, it sort of remains in the box as well... but as for the DLC, it continues to be thoroughly enjoyed because it entertains the whole reason why I even play Gran Turismo. So to say that the Chromline and Stealth cars weren't great value is sort of bunk. If anything the key chain, certificate, and model were the bonuses to me.
 
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Chromelines, Well performance wise all 5 are pretty ****e really cant add wings,wheels or paint em.
Jag XJ13 a couple of kgs lighter and around 20 bhp more.

You can change the wheels on the BMW and Lamborghini :sly:

Not sure about the others.

This topic can (and has in the past) get pretty heated.

The whole point of the full sets of Stealths and CLs was the exclusivity.
Totally pointless to release them now for £$€¥.

New cars please and this....
I have the collectors edition, but I would like if the cars would be in the NCD for people who did get the original chromelines and stealth
 
About the first part, I was just messing with you.:lol:

But in all seriousness, I'm not going to argue with you about whether it's honest or not. At the end of the day, I believe if Sony realized how much money they could make by selling these cars for $1.99 a piece, they would be all over it. Companies have been doing consumers wrong for years, and unless what they try to do affects all their customers (Netflix, who is paying for it now) or has a lot or media attention garnered from it (recently, Verizon), they will continue to do so. Making the exclusive cars DLC would do neither, as I'm sure that there are way more people with the regular game than the Collector's/ Signature Edition, and quite a few of them would love to give Sony their money for these cars. If 1 person was to say "I'm not getting the GT6 Collector's Edition because they sold the DLC cars later" there will be 5 more that will buy it.

To these companies, the bottom line is the bottom line, and honesty is further down the list of priorities.

PS: I own the Collector's Edition

And there it is. All that needs to be said.

Offering certain, flimsy, intangible "unlockable" in-game content based on how much someone is willing to pay is exclusionary (i.e. "exclusive") and is totally unfair in the first place. Pre-order bonuses are one thing, as long as they're available afterwards, it's fine. But content that can only be obtained in advance and never again is despicable, deliberate marketing bull:censored: that needs to eject itself from the industry immediately.

Whilst it might be possible to argue that the people wanting the opportunity to buy the Stealth / etc. cars are just whining "gimme gimme" (which is a ridiculous claim in the first place), I would argue that those people that want to exclude everyone else not like them are being exactly elitist, selfish and equally "gimme gimme" (after the effect).

Greed is universal; who are one group to deny it another when they partake themselves? Double standards are another hallmark of elitism: "I'm allowed to do it, because I'm better than you" translated from, "I can hold onto the privileges all for myself, because I paid more than you did". It comes down to the idea that one group of people are more deserving than another; which when it just involves a game and money, is frankly absurd (but that just describes general human society, which is elitist by its very nature; why else would class structures be so universal?)

Of course, Sony are to blame for convincing people that this sort of behaviour is acceptable and for (psychologically) "rewarding" it. After all, as quoted above, Sony will happily about-face on that "exclusivity" if it suits them - more the fool those who thought they were getting a good deal from "the devil", so to speak.

EDIT: I might seem damning of greed and of elitism, but I recognise them as ordinary traits in human-kind, and I'm not entirely devoid of self-awareness to think I'm above it (indeed, that would be elitist of me); it's just that believing you're entitled to something just because Sony said you are is a little short-sighted and frankly petty.

EDIT: I coincidentally just happened upon this article by Eurogamer, which quite nicely outlines the industry approach to exclusive (pre-order) content. "Incentivisation" is probably a key word.

EDIT: (I know...) here's a really good write-up about the psychological mathematics behind "casual games" (by someone who worked on this exact thing), how publishers see players and the way they play at incentivisation of games, that has wide-reaching consequences regarding gaming in general. It's titled: "who killed videogames? (a ghost story)"
 
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Also, I really do not understand this poll above.

No problem, I wondered about what people's feelings were about PD releasing Steath and chrome Line cars as DLC. That is all, however I thought that people's views were dependent on whether they paid extra to get the CE/SE games. And that quite a view variables and outcomes existed - tried to cover the majority with the options.

Why is author of the poll implying how owners of either C&S cars would have to "pay anything for new pack/set"? You already have those cars, why would you have to pay again?

I didn't think many would, but I wondered. I know that i can create another PS3 user, and that will give me another set of cars. I can't get another set of Stealth and/or Chromeline on my main account.


Also, from where have the crazy price of 15$ emerged?
Why $15, well I wasn't looking to get a thread going about how much they should be. I just simply picked a figure that I felt might be the kind of figure that would be charged if PD ever released either pack as a DLC, i.e. $2.50 a car. But too be honest, it isn't really the amount that is what I'm interested in - but if I didn't add a price, most would reply other - depends on how much!
 
You feel entitled to everything any game company has made at the time of release, that nothing able to be included in the game can be counted as "extra content".

I disagree. We are not entitled to every single thing made, I think if a company wants to design a few cars specifically for extra content (which in this case it's very clear these were developed to be extras) that's fine.

If it were regular cars being essentially taken out of the game to charge extra, I could say you have a point.
But these were very deliberately designed to be extra additions to this game.

If it weren't for the idea of adding these to special editions, they probably would not exist.
That's what makes them extra content.

We actually don't know PDs real intentions, but it does appear that the Stealth & Chrome Lines were developed as additional content.

However, the way in which they were used to encourage sales has varied, and - in my opinion - diminished the exclusive nature of them.

I believe that some of these were available free to those who pre-ordered GT5 prior to launch.

I don't think everyone even had access to all the Chrome Line nor Stealth ... and that seems very unfair to me. I mean not having access seems unfair - and I don't mind PD rectifying this.

As for them being exclusive, they have been, and does that mean they have to forever. Well it seems that has divided opinion the most. I read exclusive road tests in car magazines, and rival magazines have tested the very same car. Renault released as exlusive Williams model, only to follow it up with a version 2 and then 3. We've all seen or read exclusive interviews, only to hear or read the same stuff in another exclusive interview.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but CE nor SE were NOT limited editions were they?

I don't mind if everyone has access to them, somehow ... afterall we are only talking about a little bit of code to unlock them. It makes no difference to my playing and enjoyment if others buy them as DLC.
 
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If I had had the option I would've bought the stealth cars with the game. I've got the Chromeline cars and I would still spend the money to buy the stealth cars if that became an option for DLC.
 
It is comparable, if you don't see that than I think you're just trolling because you'd rather argue than admitt to what you're really saying because you know it's wrong. 👎

No it's not comparable, and you calling us trolls when we're not doing any such trolling is a violation of the AUP so I suggest you go read it. Furthermore, how is them making the 20mil cars DLC the same as making chrome line DLC. Everyone who bought the game has access the to the 20mil cars they just have find and buy them for UCD or just go buy them in the NCD. Chrome line aren't available for each game obviously and as said some people didn't have the money at the time to buy SE or CE and just bought the regular version due to wanting to play the game more than a few extra items to show support and enjoyment.

Is that so hard for you to get? The analogy you made is baseless and detracts to confuse those who may not pay attention to what naive ideas you're spewing.
 
What they should have done is make the DLC equal or unlocked to all regions, then there would be no excuse. I speak for North America when I say there is no Signiture Edition, if someone wanted all the Stealth cars when first purchasing the game they would have to pre-order the game from 5 different retailers and still be missing the Audi. That is not acceptable!

Wal-Mart- NSX
Target- 787B
Gamestop- F1/Nascar
Best Buy- GT-R
Amazon- SLS

I think it's too late to do anything. Is it fair to make Stealth cars available to North America only because we did not have the oppurtunity to purchase a Signiture Edition? I don't think so.

Is it fair to offer stealth cars to PAL who have already had the opportunity to buy Signiture Editions but passed up because they were too expensive, or they did not want the keychain? I don't think that's fair either, you guys had your chance whether you took advantage or not.

If the stupid DLC was region unlocked we could all get what we want, shame on PD.
 
With 222 votes cast so far, the summary is:
39 Not bothered & 15 others
84 No Way vs 84 Yes Please

We've had very polarised opinions in this thread
Which I suppose confirms, if PD were to offer the Stealth & Chromeline as DLC, it would be bother very unpopular and very popular!
 
With 222 votes cast so far, the summary is:
39 Not bothered & 15 others
84 No Way vs 84 Yes Please

We've had very polarised opinions in this thread
Which I suppose confirms, if PD were to offer the Stealth & Chromeline as DLC, it would be bother very unpopular and very popular!

Like most things regarding GT! :lol:
 
HOODFIELD
.

If the stupid DLC was region unlocked we could all get what we want, shame on PD.

Technically you could always order the Signature Edition and run it on an European account. To put it another way it's more a question of how badly one wants the cars.

Europe is the biggest market for GT, so I assume PD didn't see the numbers work in NA. And thus possibly didn't offer the Signature Edition in NA.

There's no point in offering something extra special and then just make the content freely available.
 
We actually don't know PDs real intentions, but it does appear that the Stealth & Chrome Lines were developed as additional content.

However, the way in which they were used to encourage sales has varied, and - in my opinion - diminished the exclusive nature of them.

I believe that some of these were available free to those who pre-ordered GT5 prior to launch.

I don't think everyone even had access to all the Chrome Line nor Stealth ... and that seems very unfair to me. I mean not having access seems unfair - and I don't mind PD rectifying this.

As for them being exclusive, they have been, and does that mean they have to forever. Well it seems that has divided opinion the most. I read exclusive road tests in car magazines, and rival magazines have tested the very same car. Renault released as exlusive Williams model, only to follow it up with a version 2 and then 3. We've all seen or read exclusive interviews, only to hear or read the same stuff in another exclusive interview.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but CE nor SE were NOT limited editions were they?

I don't mind if everyone has access to them, somehow ... afterall we are only talking about a little bit of code to unlock them. It makes no difference to my playing and enjoyment if others buy them as DLC.
Can you buy them now? (secondhand sellers that bought them to re-sell not included)

As for the rest, we can argue it until we're blue in the face, and it won't help.
Seems pretty divided, half think it's ridiculous to even consider making what was supposed to be exclusive suddenly available to the masses for a discounted price.
Others say $15 (wherever that number came from) would not be a discounted price, because apparently stickers, key chains, receipts (a combined typical monetary value of <$5) and a model car that would likely retail for another </=$5 mean these cars aren't even a significant portion of the added cost of these special editions. (worth only roughly 40% of above listed items)

I don't know, you tell me. If you paid an extra $40USD for something you were told was exclusive, and this package priced at $40 more was the only way to get it, and then that company sold it a year later separately for less then half that, can you see how that might upset anyone that bought it?
(not to be confused with "would it upset you")
Just because it wouldn't upset some purchasers, doesn't mean none have any ground to be upset.
 
Can you buy them now? (secondhand sellers that bought them to re-sell not included)
There are a few new editions around from a few UK online sellers, and a few used one's with the codes redeemed for not that much less

As for the rest, we can argue it until we're blue in the face, and it won't help.
Seems pretty divided, half think it's ridiculous to even consider making what was supposed to be exclusive suddenly available to the masses for a discounted price.
Others say $15 (wherever that number came from) would not be a discounted price, because apparently stickers, key chains, receipts (a combined typical monetary value of <$5) and a model car that would likely retail for another </=$5 mean these cars aren't even a significant portion of the added cost of these special editions. (worth only roughly 40% of above listed items)

I don't know, you tell me. If you paid an extra $40USD for something you were told was exclusive, and this package priced at $40 more was the only way to get it, and then that company sold it a year later separately for less then half that, can you see how that might upset anyone that bought it?
(not to be confused with "would it upset you")
Just because it wouldn't upset some purchasers, doesn't mean none have any ground to be upset.

I do see how people will be upset, but don't understand it. But then again I don't collect, I do want all the cars I can on GT5. Mildly put out that I can't get the Camaro Edge - cause I feel it is wrong on PD's part that players can't get every car. But I'm not even bothered enough to email PD to complain!

But for non-virtual things I buy to use. I think it is better to buy, use and share than to buy to store/display. I bought my dream car last May - have to confess not let many people drive it, but have given probably 100+ people a ride in it

Just out of interest do you have both sets - ie the Chrome Line and the Stealth

I did buy the Signature edition, then decided the extra's weren't worth keeping - so sold them all - meant that cars didn't cost me very much. I think in the end all 12 (I now have the XJ13) cost me less than £15. So estimated $15 per pack ... but even If I'd put $25 not sure the debate would have differed greatly.

I tend to keeps cars stock apart from a few that are tuned (but then I usually either don't do the unremovable tunes or have another of the same car. I do like these 'exclusive' cars, however I feel more sad for those that want them - but can't get them, than feel bad for those who have them and want to keep them exclusive.

But either way, it isn't something that bothers me or troubles me greatly, all they are are bits of pragramming code on a game disk, the are nothing more than a series of 1's and 0's - that even I cared enough to buy them disturbs me a little, that the debate should get so heated I suppose is good that we have so little esle to worry about. I really don't mean that at a dig, more of a hidden compliment.

However - I'm much more concerned whether my TVR will start in the morning!!
 
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