POLL - YES/ MAD NO/don't care about NO ONLINE MODE

[Famine]

And with that, where IS the "Don't Care" option on the poll?

 

[Tacet_Blue]

All of you that are hatrdcore racers I would expect to hear some complaint about the lack of online as you race against like paced people and there's more of a challenge, PD is never going to make the AI better than a human.

Of course the online racing side of things would be a great addition, and I was looking forward to it. There are people round the world that I have raced against in OLR but I've never had the oppertunity to see them live on the track in real time...I've seen their replays afterwards, but its not the same...

Your second comment made me laugh though...it is very easy to make the "AI" better than a human, after all it could take the perfect line round a track, brake at the optimum point every time, and never make a mistake! Most game designers are looking for "Artificial Stupidity" to make the opponents more unpredictable and more "human like", making mistakes instead of being perfect. If you make the opponents too hard, the game is no fun, if you make them too easy...the game is no fun, its a hard balance.

Also...I know everyone refers to it as AI, but it is not at all...read Margaret A. Boden (1990a) Artificial Intelligence and Natural Man. Most definitions require some kind of decision making process...its just me that gets annoyed by the over use of the phrase AI, simple algorithms do not qualify as AI for me...

 

[_aj]

I guess I should've said PD will not make the CPU opponents as good as a top human player as it would be too hard for the casual gamer who probably makes up about 50% of who actually buys GT. However with online it can be as forgiving to a newcomer as there will be others at that level and as unforgiving for the hardcore GT racers as again their will be people like them. And you learn a lot more from human racers than CPU ones because as I said humans are unpredictable and like to better themselves and be the best, something at this moment in time can't really be programmed (probably).

 

[9mm]

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to own an x-box and a ps2 network thingie. I'd love to check out Forza or play GT online. It's just that i cannot afford it ATM.
So state of blessed ignorance is not the state of choice.

But hey! DFP, Ring and 650+ handled a GT4 way make me at least super happy

 

[Iceman]

And with that, where IS the "Don't Care" option on the poll?

Exactly.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

because as I said humans are unpredictable and like to better themselves and be the best, something at this moment in time can't really be programmed (probably).

It is far more fun racing against a human opponent, also when you win you get bragging rights Beat the computer...no one cares...beat your mate...and you can remind him about it as long you as like

Also even when you are racing against someone who has beaten you everytime so far, there is that unpredictable element, which means he could crash or overcook a corner, so you feel you have the chance to beat anyone.

 

[The359]

I think the SAINT is like most of us who has taken the game one step further. If you still use a controller, haven't took the time to build or buy a pod (cockpit) ,only play one day a week, havent bought high speed internet (just for GT4), havent bought the network adapter,haven't bought a DFP, yada yada yada.

Oh no, I don't have a full blown racing seat. I guess I'm not hardcore enough for you.

Sorry, I have a life and I have better ways to spend my money.

Going by my OLR results though, I'm pretty sure I could still hand you your ass on a silver platter.

 

[Cosmic]

I think SAINT isn't happy with over 650 cars and about 50 tracks
Tell us , what's enough for you SAINT?

 

[Mr.Kwik]

Oh no, I don't have a full blown racing seat. I guess I'm not hardcore enough for you.

Sorry, I have a life and I have better ways to spend my money.

Going by my OLR results though, I'm pretty sure I could still hand you your ass on a silver platter.

Well, I do and yes I do have a life. I work for 3M (for the last 15 years) I own my own home, Have a wonderful wife and two great kids. I own my own real race car ,three motocross motorcycles in the garage, three vehicles. I have an Xbox which is online, 3 PS2's a game cube a huge HDTV. I have a great life and it would have been greater to have been at the top of the speed charts on the online version of GT4!!! Come on FORZA

 

[The359]

Well, I do and yes I do have a life. I work for 3M (for the last 15 years) I own my own home, Have a wonderful wife and two great kids. I own my own real race car ,three motocross motorcycles in the garage, three vehicles. I have an Xbox which is online, 3 PS2's a game cube a huge HDTV. I have a great life and it would have been greater to have been at the top of the speed charts on the online version of GT4!!! Come on FORZA

You want a medal or something? Because you completely missed the point.

 

[Mr.Kwik]

Well as a fact a medal would be awesome! I have quite a few trophy's but no medals! LOL See this is why online would be sooo great because all everyone does here is talk, if you were racing online you start to have some respect for those who race hard clean and fast. I hate to admit it but when I race NASCAR 2005 online when I know I am racing anyone out of the top 100 my addrenalin pumps just as much as when I am in a real car. The online just takes gaming to another level. Hey were all friends here all of us share a common bond and that my friend is one hell of a game and it will only get better. But I hate to see what happens when FORZA hits the shelves. I read today that they are working with Act Labs on their FF wheels so it's gonna get real tight in the sim racing game top spot!

 

[The359]

Um, no, we have this thing called OLR that lets people prove themselves easily.

 

[Famine]

Nonetheless, The359's point was, I believe, just because he choses not to spend his money on expensive wheels, racing seats and integrated booths in his computer room, it does not make him any less of a Gran Turismo player - or gamer - than anyone else, although it seems that some people consider you to be a "casual gamer" (apparently this is a bad thing) and makes your opinion on a computer game not worth listening to.

This is quite funny, as I fall into the category, as defined above, of "casual gamer", although I do own a DFP. And there's decent odds that I'd beat most people participating in this thread, 9 times out of 10. And even better than that when it's live, considering the results in the 14 player iLink I went to this spring (and will be going to again in October - although Mr. P will be there and he'd cream me off the face of the Earth) - and in iLinks your opponents are in the room with you, and capable of beating you about the face if you nose them off the track, or enjoying a beer and commenting on some great racing moves.

Online or GT4 now? GT4 now.
Online or iLink? iLink - NO contest.


In fact everyone, apart from Max E., is a casual gamer, because it's recreational. Max has won $3,000 playing it, so is probably a little less casual than the rest of us.

 

[Dave A]

The OLR's comparing lap times is very different to racing another person online, I personally find that the most enjoyable part of most racing games, and even though I'm sticking ith KY on removing it for now and releasing it later when it's done properly I'm still a little dissapointed it's not going to be included in GT4 at launch. Despite my approval of KY's actions I'm in no way going to agree with anyone who trys to say online racing is not important, or it doesn't matter, it is important and it does matter.

 

[Mr.Kwik]

Nonetheless, The359's point was, I believe, just because he choses not to spend his money on expensive wheels, racing seats and integrated booths in his computer room, it does not make him any less of a Gran Turismo player - or gamer - than anyone else, although it seems that some people consider you to be a "casual gamer" (apparently this is a bad thing) and makes your opinion on a computer game not worth listening to.

This is quite funny, as I fall into the category, as defined above, of "casual gamer", although I do own a DFP. And there's decent odds that I'd beat most people participating in this thread, 9 times out of 10. And even better than that when it's live, considering the results in the 14 player iLink I went to this spring (and will be going to again in October - although Mr. P will be there and he'd cream me off the face of the Earth) - and in iLinks your opponents are in the room with you, and capable of beating you about the face if you nose them off the track, or enjoying a beer and commenting on some great racing moves.

Online or GT4 now? GT4 now.
Online or iLink? iLink - NO contest.


In fact everyone, apart from Max E., is a casual gamer, because it's recreational. Max has won $3,000 playing it, so is probably a little less casual than the rest of us.

UMMMM, actually if you remember I was the one who submitted pictures of the MGTRA in the thread titled "paying a $50 entry fee for a $1000.00 purse" I know of quite a few people whom are as fast as you think you are. Like I said before if GT4 was online we would find out who is fast. Oh ya I forgot online racing is for the birds and isn't important right? Come on down to Missouri and link up with us for a weekend we would be glad to have you. As a matter a fact I'll save you a seat. 👍

 

[The359]

No one said online play isn't important at all. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it makes your driving capabilities superior or that it is as necessary as you make it out to be.

 

[askia47]

UMMMM, actually if you remember I was the one who submitted pictures of the MGTRA in the thread titled "paying a $50 entry fee for a $1000.00 purse" I know of quite a few people whom are as fast as you think you are. Like I said before if GT4 was online we would find out who is fast. Oh ya I forgot online racing is for the birds and isn't important right? Come on down to Missouri and link up with us for a weekend we would be glad to have you. As a matter a fact I'll save you a seat. 👍

http://www.teamxlink.co.uk/

 

[SaintKamus]

Wow alpha, i bet even KY's Mom doesn't defend him so much, look, the game is going to be good, and you HAVE your stupid AI to play with, so why do you even BOTHER on reading something you obviously have no intrest in?
you like the game the way it will be? GOOD FOR YOU! go play your AI and stay out of things that obviously are of no concern to you, don't mind paying 50 more bucks for online? GREAT!
it's your cash, i'm speaking MY mind, and no ammount of KY's a$$ lickers is going to change it. You said something about how KY's cares so much for online that he took it out (WTF??) and then release a game for it. If he really did care for online, he would've proritized it, obviously he has a different agenda, too bad it's about WATCHING the game, and not PLAYING it (please explain to me how photo mode and B-Spec is so much better than online mode, i can't wait to hear your @$$ licking some more). listen, it's cool that you will still like GT4 with out online a lot, good for you, but the fact is, the game will be INCOMPLETE with out it, it takes 50% of the fun for each and evryone that cares about competitive play.
i got nothing against people that play for fun (like you), but some of us actually play to be competitive, and i have NO clue how you figured i'll ram / wall ride my way to win (funny that you should care, you only play vs AI, AI doesn't care btw).
and i didn't just pull out of my ass the comments about how he was concerned about the lag, i saw this in an interview and this is when i got worried, he said "the problem with the jumpy cars, is that it changes the GT experience, we might not include it."
i've explained NUMEROUS times workarounds in other games to compensate for lagg and i'm not about to repeat them one more time.
so listen, if you have your "PERFECT GAME" as you call it, what the hell are you doing debating here? just go wait for it and when it comes out you can marvel at it's perfection, IGNORE people, who, like me. think otherwise.
it's too bad you don't care about online play, i'd be more than happy to show you just how STUPID AI really is by giving you a beating with the noob stick at Nurburgring ^_^.

 

[SaintKamus]

No one said online play isn't important at all. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it makes your driving capabilities superior or that it is as necessary as you make it out to be.

i STRONGLY disagree, as soon as you go online, you'll immediatly start to learn new tricks, this is true for EVRY other game out there, heck, just from watching a video posted here about a time attack competition (nurburgring full lap) i quickly realized that i didn't have the perfect driving line after all, and improved my times by doing some of the stuff i saw.
so if you think your driving capabilities won't improve when going online, you have obviously not played ANY game in online competition.
plus, when driving online you'll experience something you can never experience against AI, at least not nearly at the same level:
PRESSURE, suddenly you'll start concentrating more because of the pressure, and sometimes make mistakes because of it, this just doesn't apply vs AI.
and just so you know, that "pressure" is what makes online games so god damn addictive. take that element out of the equation and a game suddenly loses most of it's appeal, regardless of how good it is.
(note, i mean games that are by nature, competitive. i'm not suggesting you can't enjoy single player games like final fantasy series, MGS, GTA, etc.)
Racing is a very competitive event, so it really sucks that we have to play with out any oponents.

 

[Shannon]

You said something about how KY's cares so much for online that he took it out (WTF??) and then release a game for it.

Did you even read ALPHA's post? KY doesn't want the end user (you and other GT fans) to experience a bad online mode. They've completed online and all, but due to the fact Sony's current online gaming network sucks, they're waiting for them to improve it before they release GT4 Online. Read, they're waiting on Sony here. I'm not even going to read the rest of your post if even I, a person who rarely even plays GT and hasn't even completed Beginner League in GT3 (even though I've owned it for 2 years), can understand that whilst a fully-fledged fanboy like you can't.

Disclaimer: For the aforementioned reasons, I probably know nothing and you can disregard anything I said if it happens to be false - which more than likely will be the case.

 

[inferno]

the only real reason i was interested in online play is because i dont know any body else who plays GT or should i say is good enough to aspire to. i liked the idea of going online and raceing real people who actually know what there doing, but if PD says online isint up to snuf yet then I can wait. it just gives me more time to get better before i go diving in.

ps: an online city would be great to. you know, just a basic city grid with trafic signals and stuf for people to go on and drive around. like a way to meet potential friends or challengers. or both. no ai cars just real people. plus it would be kind of neat to find a time when nobody was on and have the whole city to terrorize and just have a whole lot of power slideing, trick busting, look ma no speed limits, kind of fun.

 

[3rdgenracerX]

GT4 online only adds to the GT experiance, it doesnt make the GT experiance.

As many people have mentioned, KY doesnt want to give us a bug laiden game of crap. If he does that than nearly the entire GT community will be pissed. The only alternative besides waiting on SONY to get their networks up to snuff is to release the finished offline game so that we can finally play this long awaited game. Better that way than angering us even more with a 6 month or even longer delay while SONY got their act together.

 

[Famine]

UMMMM, actually if you remember I was the one who submitted pictures of the MGTRA in the thread titled "paying a $50 entry fee for a $1000.00 purse" I know of quite a few people whom are as fast as you think you are. Like I said before if GT4 was online we would find out who is fast. Oh ya I forgot online racing is for the birds and isn't important right? Come on down to Missouri and link up with us for a weekend we would be glad to have you. As a matter a fact I'll save you a seat. 👍

Paying an entrance fee makes you a little less "casual" (whatever that is), but winning it makes Max even less so. And guess what? I beat Max - albeit offline - in the first GT Drafting series. Although I doubt these days I would.

I know of even more people who are faster than YOU think you are. They all put themselves up for public scrutiny, week in, week out too.

Seeing as I'm around 6,000 miles from Missouri, I'll pass, if it's all the same to you, and instead play the Europeans.

Oh, and instead of being all offended and trying to attack me, please actually utilise my own words. I have never ONCE said that "online racing is for the birds" - and given that Lotus350 IS a bird and would soundly clean your tachometer I think you're being rather amusingly denigrating.


And 3rdgenracerX - Spot on mate.

 

[RyosukeFCDS]

why does everyone think sony's online network is so bad?

Here in australia i can't fault it, there's no lag in any games i've played, the systems never been down, they constantly update the news page and give out info, they've done a really good job with it, the only thing i'd like to see is a web browser.

Is americas online system that bad?

 

[Ronnn]

althought i voted Mad, actually I am in between
since if i really need to play GT4 Online, i need to buy a new PS2, since mine is early version, can't find that pc-card modem anymore...anyway

yes i do agree GT series core is single player mode.
but being able to play with others is good, since for the past GT series, they computer's cars are so slow.

 

[vipersan]

^
Exactly. It would be nice to have online, but if we don't, I'm not mad also.

 

[ALPHA]

why does everyone think sony's online network is so bad?

Kazunori himself stated that Sony's online network wasn't good enough to support GT4 online. He has given Sony some time to get it fixed though. I suggest you check out this video for proof.