Polyphony Digital's General Shift in Philosophy -Hardcore fans UNITE.

[YoanP]

I think that GT5 will be seen as a transition game


This lack of coherency I believe directly reflects the current lack of a coherent view in Kaz's mind of what he wants his game to be, and what he wants it to reflect, outside of course the general goal to be 'the ultimate driving simulator'

I have no doubt that these things will resolve themselves, as they tend to do with time, and that a coherent view will emerge. I have no idea how that view will express itself in GT6, but I for one am greatly enjoying the transition. Because out there on the Nurburgring, in a great car on realistic tyres, all is forgiven, and you know you are in the in the presence of brillance.👍

 

[SleazyBig slim]

Slightly off topic here, but not really. In Sony's defense they are not new to this, as far as updating and changing games for the better goes.

Example 1: Socom Confrontation- This game was a complete disaster upon release, a lot of review sites gave it a 5 out of 10 or worse, I think IGN gave it a 2.5 or something. And if you think GT fans are bitchy, we are NOTHING compared to those Socom fanboys They basically want Sony to keep making Socom 2 over and over again with better graphics Anyways less then a year later that game was completely turned around and for the better. Game runs flawlessly with no glitches or lag what so ever.

Example 2: MAG. Boy oh boy, I was in the MAG beta and the games was absolute trash, I advised people to stay away from it. Sony started updating it on the regular basis fixing all tech problems, but also adding more content. I got wind of this and bought the game 2 months ago. It is now unrecognizable compared to how atrocious it was at release. Needless to say MAG is now my favorite fps. Sorry Killzone2 And they just added a new gameplay mode that I still need to download.

Sony is treating GT5 like an MMO. You know like World of Warcraft, accept its free to play.

 

[gtone339]

1. Prize exclusive cars.
2. Rewinnable prize cars.
3. MOAR EVENTS PLZ.
4. NO MOAR BSPEC PLZ.
'nuff said.

What about combine both A-spec and B-spec modes together do we can switch modes by entering the pits. GT4 had this feature. Why drop?

 

[MeechShrykull]

What about combine both A-spec and B-spec modes together do we can switch modes by entering the pits. GT4 had this feature. Why drop?

I meant an entire mode devoted to B-Spec. It's ok to have it like in GT4, or even a couple B-Spec exclusive events. But half the game?
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[Uscbryan]

Huh? The restart button is bad because I just finished a race why would i do it again? Ummm because I like to race. Real racers never drive the same track more than once? Never race against the same people more than once? I like to race I dont need a million different events to do so. Yea it is cool to achieve more prizes but the point is to race. And then there is online with friends. A million different possibilities there. Same car races, specific weight, hp, tires tracks. It's fricken endless. Does PD have to use your imagination for you? They gave us cool cars, great physics and plenty of tracks. Go have fun.

After much consideration, it seems to me that PD have undergone a general shift in attitude towards their games since GT4.

Preamble: I love Gran Turismo. I've been a fan since the first GT came out, and EVERY GT since then has been the sole reason of me buying a PS3.

I used to respect PD because no other developer out there had the attention to detail they did, and while others were always just trying to make a buck off of an over-hyped product, PD always kept it real, and just released great racing sims.

Now, it's safe to say that PD have shifted their focus to marketing hype, generating rumors, and generally just exploiting their hard-core fan base.

Examples:

Remember how long it took you to finish (100%) GT4? Remember how you had to grind MINIMALLY compared to GT5? Remember the diversity and number of events? I worked HARD finishing GT4, and it was VERY satisfying.

With GT5, it's different:

Instead of making the career mode complex, evolving, challenging, and diverse. (Like GT4 for example), they made it relatively simple, repetitive, easier, and grind-happy. (I'M PRACTICALLY DONE WITH GT5... if you factor out my grinding, I would've been done a while ago).

Still not convinced that PD is short-changing it's fans???

A perfect piece of evidence is in one of the MAJOR parts of update 1.05: you can now RESTART a race RIGHT AFTER you've just finished it!!!! WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT THAT?!!?!? I JUST FINISHED THIS RACE!!!!!!!!!

What's worse is that people are applauding this..... as if it's an improvement to the game.

If you care about the future of the GT series, and call yourself a true hardcore GT fan, you will use this thread to remind PD of how great they were, and how they should go back to that philosophy if they hope to hold on to this AMAZING fan base that is the GTPLANET community!

So, let's have it. Hard-core fans, list your nostalgia on how the previous GT games where better than GT5.......... More comprehensive, less insulting to gamers, and just generally.... finished games. My hope is that you'll help me divert the attention of PD to this. WE HAVE A SAY HERE. If we just sit back and take it, GT6 will only be worse.

Let's hear it.

-A hardcore GT fan since 1997.

 

[gtone339]

I meant an entire mode devoted to B-Spec. It's ok to have it like in GT4, or even a couple B-Spec exclusive events. But half the game?

Okay, probably for GT6 but I don't want to leave my PS3 on for 24 hours just for a 24 hour Endurance race.

 

[Eksle]

Whilst I am what you'd call a "hardcore" driving fan i.e. I play iRacing/LFS a lot and I have also owned every GT game that there's been and I regularly attend trackdays/drag strip in reality. I can hand on heart say that I'm the most disappointed with this one and it is definitely the least fun of the series.

Online patches have meant that PD can drop the ball and make up for it, which is fine but they release an unfinished game (a la Final Fantasy XIV) and charge people full whack.

So my likes:

• I like that it's a new GT game, races, challenges, licenses etc.
• I like the choice of cars (with a big but)
• I like the updated physics engine (although it's not as good as some)

So my dislikes:

• The sound is AWFUL.
• Tyre wear is not done properly, I can last just as long on soft tyres as hard but 2-3s a lap faster, why bother having them in?
• All the "standard" cars are heaps of junk and handle exactly the same (yes I have restiffened them), So many cars listed but you get down to the base of it and it just feels like they have only really modeled the characteristics of very few, the ones that were in GT4 handle and feel exactly the same as back then.
• There's nothing to do, decent online racing is near enough nonexistant and is far too laggy to be any fun, people have no interest in a fair race they will only race you (in a Mini for example) if they have a Veyron.
• I've already done everything I can say I'd ever be able to in this game (gold licenses, gold Vettel challenge, complete all endurances except 4hr/24hr ones etc.)
• No way of realistically completing the 24hr in A-Spec, in GT4 you could sub in a B spec driver to take over in 2 hour stints like in real life.
• Rubbish rewards for hard races, (F1 championship, a Caterham???)
• Awful menus and tuning system.
• Rubbish AI

The only challenge I really enjoyed was getting the golds on the Vettel challenge, but once that's done there's nothing to play for, people say it's aimed for online play but when the online play is so atrocious what's the point?

I appreciate that this is a GT forum so going to get people who blindly excuse PD for releasing such an unpolished game, sure it's better than GT4 but games in general have got a LOT better since then. Forza is a better game for me in every way except physics (which is why I won't play it anymore) but it just feels a lot more professional than GT5.

Again this is just my opinion and you can disagree but I have a right to be disappointed in a game that was so long in the making and promised so much yet delivered so little.

 

[Amused2Death66]

Whilst I am what you'd call a "hardcore" driving fan i.e. I play iRacing/LFS a lot and I have also owned every GT game that there's been and I regularly attend trackdays/drag strip in reality. I can hand on heart say that I'm the most disappointed with this one and it is definitely the least fun of the series.

Online patches have meant that PD can drop the ball and make up for it, which is fine but they release an unfinished game (a la Final Fantasy XIV) and charge people full whack.

So my likes:

• I like that it's a new GT game, races, challenges, licenses etc.
• I like the choice of cars (with a big but)
• I like the updated physics engine (although it's not as good as some)

So my dislikes:

• The sound is AWFUL.
• Tyre wear is not done properly, I can last just as long on soft tyres as hard but 2-3s a lap faster, why bother having them in?
• All the "standard" cars are heaps of junk and handle exactly the same (yes I have restiffened them), So many cars listed but you get down to the base of it and it just feels like they have only really modeled the characteristics of very few, the ones that were in GT4 handle and feel exactly the same as back then.
• There's nothing to do, decent online racing is near enough nonexistant and is far too laggy to be any fun, people have no interest in a fair race they will only race you (in a Mini for example) if they have a Veyron.
• I've already done everything I can say I'd ever be able to in this game (gold licenses, gold Vettel challenge, complete all endurances except 4hr/24hr ones etc.)
• No way of realistically completing the 24hr in A-Spec, in GT4 you could sub in a B spec driver to take over in 2 hour stints like in real life.
• Rubbish rewards for hard races, (F1 championship, a Caterham???)
• Awful menus and tuning system.
• Rubbish AI

The only challenge I really enjoyed was getting the golds on the Vettel challenge, but once that's done there's nothing to play for, people say it's aimed for online play but when the online play is so atrocious what's the point?

I appreciate that this is a GT forum so going to get people who blindly excuse PD for releasing such an unpolished game, sure it's better than GT4 but games in general have got a LOT better since then. Forza is a better game for me in every way except physics (which is why I won't play it anymore) but it just feels a lot more professional than GT5.

Again this is just my opinion and you can disagree but I have a right to be disappointed in a game that was so long in the making and promised so much yet delivered so little.

Again someone who can actually see the myriad design flaws in this title. Kudos to you for seeing the game for what it currently is.

 

[CarreraGT]

Basically the way i see it, the same core content is included in every iteration of GT, it just gets more and more diluted each time around.

After a couple of months with GT4, all I did was lap the Nordschleife because the AI was crap and there weren't many other good tracks.

After GT5P, I was excited to finally have a GT game with descent AI, only for it to somehow end up worse in the final product (no idea how PD achieved this). On top of that, there is still bugger all descent tracks and a lot of the new content is poorly executed.

So here I am, less than a month since the launch of GT5, lapping the Nordschleife. Once I get my PS3 connected to PSN, I will hit the online play, but until PD sort out the AI and a few other things, I will continue lapping the nordschleife.

Remember a while back talk about separate GT5 standard/pro versions? Might not have been such a bad idea looking back. Imagine having all that makes GT5 brilliant minus all of the "filler" marketing content

 

[NeuroFiZT]

I think that GT5 will be seen as a transition game within the Gran Turismo series

If you read a bit about what Kaz has been doing, there have been quite a few changes in his life since GT4. Most noteably his sucess and wealth now allow him to indulge his passion for cars in a way that must have seemed unimaginable when the series first started out.

I believe this is resulting in a fundamental shift in his views about what a motor car is and how he wants to reflect this in his art (game), moving from a very japanese view (Nissan Skyline anyone ?) to a far deeper and more nuanced appreciation of the automobile on all levels as a result of his exposure to rare and iconic cars at the likes of the Pebble Beach events, to actually racing the Nurburgring in real life. I also believe this shift in his mindset is not yet complete.

Add to that the technology of the PS3, Blueray, Online and he now has a far broader medium than ever before to try and express a vision that is still in transition.

All of this I think has combined to give us GT5 as we see it. A game that is both amazing, and frustrating, incredibly detailed, and woefully incomplete. For all its brillance, the one thing that strikes me about GT5 is it just doesn't have the feeling of a coherent whole. Yes we now do damage, well kind of, sometimes. Yes we now do weather, on this track, but not that one. The same with day / night transitions. Amazing car models, along side some that clearly predate even GT4.

This lack of coherency I believe directly reflects the current lack of a coherent view in Kaz's mind of what he wants his game to be, and what he wants it to reflect, outside of course the general goal to be 'the ultimate driving simulator'

I have no doubt that these things will resolve themselves, as they tend to do with time, and that a coherent view will emerge. I have no idea how that view will express itself in GT6, but I for one am greatly enjoying the transition. Because out there on the Nurburgring, in a great car on realistic tyres, all is forgiven, and you know you are in the in the presence of brillance.👍

Well said!

While it is a very optimistic outlook (one that I hope is accurate for all our sakes), I agree about "enjoying the transition". I have said before that I'd pay the $60 just for ONE good car on the 'Ring with this physics model. It's that good.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

Again someone who can actually see the myriad design flaws in this title. Kudos to you for seeing the game for what it currently is.

Indeed. Precisely the point of this thread.

This is GT5beta. And we are the testers. (unpaid testers... actually..... paying testers.

 

[Devedander]

Indeed. Precisely the point of this thread.

This is GT5beta. And we are the testers. (unpaid testers... actually..... paying testers.

Pay testers? LOL why would they do that? We already all proved to them how much suckers we are when we PAID to be testers the first time... remember GT5P?

They got the barrel, they verified the fish were in it... it's party time at PD now

GT5 should be the subject of a paper on how to sell the same content over and over... let's see what DLC holds

 

[NeuroFiZT]

They got the barrel, they verified the fish were in it... it's party time at PD now

GT5 should be the subject of a paper on how to sell the same content over and over... let's see what DLC holds

On point as always.

 

[tinram]

Yes to B-SPEC!!!!!

No to another whining thread, we have an official one already, "Who else is disapointed ...."!

 

[amar212]

Ok, let me get this straight - suddenly, GT is not hard-core enough?

Because we have logical and useful function-button? Or save backup?

This place is getting crazier every day

 

[Redline2008]

Yup. I see your point. Restart is certainly useful for licenses and restarting if you don't get 1st place, etc.... what I have a problem with is people applauding it for it's 'grinding facilitation'. I just don't see why grinding should be an accepted part of the game. Imho, it shouldn't. Thanks for the contribution, 'dander, always a pleasure chatting.

Grinding is currently required, so you have to accept it in short term. Look at A-Spec Endurance series and you will see that the higher up you get, there are several levels in between each race event. Already at 28-29, I realize I will have to repeat the 2 hours and 20 minutes long Indy 500 race at least three times to progress to level 30 which requires around 641k XP. And it does not get better.

That is out of the question of course. Sitting in my racing seat for 2-3 hours straight is not healthy for my back or for my head. So instead I repeat the events that took place on fun tracks and with comfortable opponents and I have fun in my favorite cars while making money and getting XP slowly but surely.

If you are saving for a specific car, it is a known fact that the American Championship event at Indy gives the most buck/minute, currently 117k/4min I think. I am bored to death by those races so I can only do 2 or 3 consecutives(?) and then I'm back on my favorite track.

So while we hope and wait for PD to give us more events and more content to lessen the need for grinding to achieve progress, today's new restart button has removed a nuisance in the form of a 2 minute loading time each time you want retry (or re-win for cash) a race. Today also brought online XP/credits they say, and I have already had a lot of fun and earned a lot of XP in the process in the new seasonal events.

So in short, I agree that we should not accept the game as it is. But GT5 was released on the PS3 which is designed to be connected to the internet 24/7 and developers can then take shortcuts in their game making to meet certain deadlines (christmas shopping) to please their board of directors. I guess that's the result of video games becoming so huge. I was going to say that Call of Duty Black Ops is the best selling entertainment product in history, but I can't find the quote. I'm sure I read it somewhere. CoD Sales

Also if you have been a fan since '97, you are probably not a "Call of Warcraft" (call of duty, world of warcraft) player, most of whom were born 1 to 5 years before GT1 release. New generation and new expectations and habits. They are a product of their time and can not be blamed even if it's annoying as hell.

Sorry for spelling goofs.. English is not my first language.


edit: I can add that I'm not a hardore fan in any way. The PS3 is my first console. This is just what I think has happened. As a racing sim, GT is far from the top of the list. What I enjoy is the roleplaying element and all the street car licenses and their huge budget which makes it possible to race my private car or my dream car on the Nordschleife. iRacing simulates a race driver's career much better. GT simulates a filthy rich person's plentyful garage and his crazy track days

 

[gravedecision]

I'm not going to requote everything said here but I think part of the 'grinding for gameplay' thing rings true - just take a look at the last Final Fantasy game. It was a terrible RPG on rails but apparently it's loved in Japan because it fits into their culture. Meanwhile Americans and Europeans prefer open-ended games where you have a choice in want to do. I get the feeling they tried to play with the open-ended side of things but it still has some things that question what the point is besides dilating the time required to get to new content.

Personally, I'm torn as to what I think about GT5 - on one hand, the races place few restrictions on what you can use, which I consider a negative, while the remaining events at the high end get ridiculous. You're required to grind to get to the next level just to race in it; in the last GT game I played you just needed a license (GT3) and that was still somewhat of a pain sometimes..... I'm glad at least they have online mode for when I get bored with doing A-Spec (I have slow internet) - overall, I think this was rushed despite taking 5 years to make so they could meet their holiday deadlines.

At least with the update today, I think there's a chance they can fill out that missing content and continue fixing the game.

 

[Devedander]

So in short, I agree that we should not accept the game as it is. But GT5 was released on the PS3 which is designed to be connected to the internet 24/7 and developers can then take shortcuts in their game making to meet certain deadlines (christmas shopping) to please their board of directors.

I will just go ahead and point out again that the PS3 was designed with the OPTION of being connected to the internet 24/7 and both the system and games SHOULD be completely functional at the time of sale and not NEED any content added after relying on a broadband connection. These are not cell phones, these are game systems which can benefit from having online but are not sold with the caveate that to get what you paid for you must have online.

Remember a significant number of people do not have access to broadband and many are in areas where broadband costs by the MB so this assumption that it's ok to cut corners becuase it can be fixed later is exactly what we need to be unhappy with, not accepting of and defending...

In no uncertain terms this practice screws over many customers who just won't get the features and value they should and ultimately regardless of that fact is moving the game industry more and more towards a level of shoddiness we should all be unhappy about.

Would you accept if furniture dealers routinely sold tables with only 3 legs and all you need is a truck to come get the 4th leg a few weeks after you buy your table?

 

[Redline2008]

...
Remember a significant number of people do not have access to broadband and many are in areas where broadband costs by the MB so this assumption that it's ok to cut corners becuase it can be fixed later is exactly what we need to be unhappy with, not accepting of and defending...

In no uncertain terms this practice screws over many customers who just won't get the features and value they should and ultimately regardless of that fact is moving the game industry more and more towards a level of shoddiness we should all be unhappy about.

I know that very well. Developers too of course. But they still lean on being able to "polish the edges" with patches and that has come to stay.

Would you accept if furniture dealers routinely sold tables with only 3 legs and all you need is a truck to come get the 4th leg a few weeks after you buy your table?

Maybe if the legs were mounted as a triangle so the top would still be supported while waiting Still a far off example though. I have spent tens of hours having fun with this "incomplete" game and luckily I don't have to eat my dinner on GT5 so I can just do some other stuff when I'm tired of it while hopefully updates add more content. I have bought other games for the same $ not lasting a fifth of what I have done so far. I understand that this is what you want the GT series to keep doing but I don't have a good solution at the time.

 

[Metfanant]

Indeed. Precisely the point of this thread.

This is GT5beta. And we are the testers. (unpaid testers... actually..... paying testers.

Lets drop THAT idea. This is not GT5beta...this is GT5. This is what PD was able to come up with in the however long they have been developing this game.

 

[panjandrum]

Overall I have to agree with your general sentiment. There are a number of great things about GT5, but they are so dramatically outweighed by the immense burden of poor-design and gameplay decisions that I actually put the game away (the final straw was the offline vs. online physics issue, which appears to adversely effect my 2 favorite cars more than most others). Most games I put away never come back out again... However, I will be giving PD the benefit of the doubt for now and trying it again every time a new patch is released. If they fix enough problems I'll be back, but if they don't, then it'll be going right back on the shelf.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

...if you have been a fan since '97, you are probably not a "Call of Warcraft" (call of duty, world of warcraft) player, most of whom were born 1 to 5 years before GT1 release. New generation and new expectations and habits. They are a product of their time and can not be blamed even if it's annoying as hell.

That's what I was thinking.... no other way to justify it. Good point, but I'm not sure if "they cannot be blamed because they're a product of their time".... After all, 'their time' is one when you can obtain any information about anything instantaneously.... so I'd expect someone like this to be MORE informed.... not less.

iRacing simulates a race driver's career much better. GT simulates a filthy rich person's plentyful garage and his crazy track days

Good way to put it. Crazy track days indeed.

 

[Devedander]

Lets drop THAT idea. This is not GT5beta...this is GT5. This is what PD was able to come up with in the however long they have been developing this game.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet... and a beta by any other name is still a beta.

It's literally released mising a myriad of features and with horrible design choices that are just now being straightened out.

That sounds like the definition of a beta to me.

 

[NeuroFiZT]

Lets drop THAT idea. This is not GT5beta...this is GT5. This is what PD was able to come up with in the however long they have been developing this game.

You're telling me that this is a finished game on release? Surely you wouldn't defend a statement like that. This is an unfinished game. There are gaping holes in it that indicate that there was NO real game-testing done by people representing target consumers. This is part of quality control........... How can PD go from "not being satisfied with anything less than perfect", to releasing such an obviously incomplete product?

There are two types of consumers: an informed one, and a misinformed one. The ratio of these consumers for any given product determines the trajectory that the developer will take in the future. This thread is an attempt at skewing the trajectory towards a quality product.

 

[HumanDestroyah]

Yay! Another thread about earlier gran turismo games being better!

+5 for calling this out so quick

Fast forward: 2016 GT6P has been out for 3 years, GT6 Platnum is out for a week....log into GTP to check out what everyone thinks.....WTF?!? Eeeeeverybody is saying how much they loved GT5 and how it's perfect incomparison.

Long story short. Nobody is going to be happy...ever. Everyone wishes they still felt the magic they did with the groundbreaking lego cars from GT1.

Suck it up, play the game. Don't like it anymore? trade it in for ModNation Racers or go play Rad Racer (it was in 3D remember?)

The Wambulance has arrived

 

[Metfanant]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet... and a beta by any other name is still a beta.

It's literally released mising a myriad of features and with horrible design choices that are just now being straightened out.

That sounds like the definition of a beta to me.

its missing a myriad of features because the developer completely botched the development process of the game, and are now scrambling to fix the problems.

You're telling me that this is a finished game on release? Surely you wouldn't defend a statement like that. This is an unfinished game. There are gaping holes in it that indicate that there was NO real game-testing done by people representing target consumers. This is part of quality control........... How can PD go from "not being satisfied with anything less than perfect", to releasing such an obviously incomplete product?

There are two types of consumers: an informed one, and a misinformed one. The ratio of these consumers for any given product determines the trajectory that the developer will take in the future. This thread is an attempt at skewing the trajectory towards a quality product.

1. Yes this is a finished game, it just so happens that the developer released a very unpolished, shoddy game. SCE gave PD a TON of rope with the development of this game and Kaz and company turned right around and hung themselves with it.

2. The whole "not being satisfied with anything less than perfect" is just dev speak for trying to make the best game possible. The game was never going to be perfect PD are generations behind in their ability to push the PS3 hardware at this point, and part of the problem is that they have been working on this code for YEARS. There are a handful of other Sony first party developers that are pushing the PS3 hardware in ways that would probably make PD's coders heads spin right now.

 

[slackboy72]

Oh these threads are too funny.
People are now complaining about the game not being hard enough or being able to re-start a race straight away? Oh the humanity...

 

[AussieStig117]

You do realize that GT1 was also absurdly short, no? And I remember doing more than my fair share of grinding, particularly in GT2. GT All Stars, Super Speedway. 50000 to win, Mines Evo VI prize car. And the 80's sports car cup (Think that is what series it was) on Tahiti Road that had the 125000 resale Skyline Silhouette Race Car? Haven't played the game for ages, but I still remember that. That is how much grinding I did.

Remember the prize wheel in GT3, how often times you would get a prize car you weren't aiming for, so you had to do the series all over? Only to find out that your LM Edition race car you just got is in some putrid color that makes you wanna vomit. Do it again.

Heck, I even remember grinding for a RM Viper GTS as my third car ever in GT1. Doing the same race over and over again is part of the series and always has been.

And the restart right after finishing is brilliant. You even mention grinding, all this does is speed up grinding dramatically. No more load screens to sit through, plus if the days really only do change during load screens you can keep that rare car in the dealership while you amass the required funds.

-A hardcore GT fan since 1997.

I remember this very well, and i was only 5 or 6 at the time. I used the Viper to do the race, i think it was something like 9 laps. I was so young i didn't really understand much i just loved doing it, and when i was on lap 8 out of 9 i skidded across the line thinking that when it hit 9 out of 9 i would finish but that wasn't the case.

Your right though, you had to grind alot in that game and i remember doing it alot.

Grinding has been part of the GT series for awhile now, the OP will just have to get over it.
If you're into sim racers go play some rRacing or iFactor

 

[donnie707]

I remember this very well, and i was only 5 or 6 at the time. I used the Viper to do the race, i think it was something like 9 laps. I was so young i didn't really understand much i just loved doing it, and when i was on lap 8 out of 9 i skidded across the line thinking that when it hit 9 out of 9 i would finish but that wasn't the case.

Your right though, you had to grind alot in that game and i remember doing it alot.

Grinding has been part of the GT series for awhile now, the OP will just have to get over it.
If you're into sim racers go play some rRacing or iFactor

Hmmm.....I never had to grind much in GT5. But then again, i kind of like grinding. Infact, I'm one of those people who liked playing final fantasy 11. So maybe I'm not use to NOT grinding...I guess some people will enjoy it and others won't.

 

[birksy82]

Don't get me wrong, I still love the game, it's still a remarkable achievement... but it's all wrapped in something really sloppy.
I sure hope you're right about future updates to GT mode.

Perhaps I'm just being too cynical. I hope so..... but I'm just reacting to what I'm seeing.

Call me old-school, but I remember when released games were finished.

I know what you mean but in the days of old developers had no choice but to finish a game before release. However in the present time with online consoles they can get away with not finishing the game completely before release and then fire out updates to fix things after. This does seem to be the way with all developers now but at least with PD they are working hard to get things fixed. I do think the main reason for disappointment in the game is the gap between this one and GT4 if it was only 3 years between them i really dont think so many people would be complaining but i guess we will never know about that.