Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Explains New Tire Physics, Confirms Pit Stops Are History

"Please let me clarify. All the underlying simulation with our SETA tyre model exists - and has actually been adding upon with a 3rd layer. The difference with PC3 is - without Pitstops, the change in tyre compounds happens automatically. That doesn't mean you go from racing in a sunny environment to a wet environment and the car handles the same. Absolutely not. It just means you don't have to pit to put the wets on, therefore no break in the racing action. And from dry to wet you'll be able to feel the difference as always. That was the main reasoning behind the decision from the Game Design Team. And I understand guys, change is hard to embrace. But it's resulted in a better product. Our simmers who've worked on this title love it also. But if it's not for you it's not for you. All we can do is be open and transparent, show you guys the ins-and-outs of the game, and you guys as our community and consumers have the right to make your mind up yourselves if it's not the product for you."



http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...-This-summer&p=1595875&viewfull=1#post1595875
 
"Please let me clarify. All the underlying simulation with our SETA tyre model exists - and has actually been adding upon with a 3rd layer. The difference with PC3 is - without Pitstops, the change in tyre compounds happens automatically. That doesn't mean you go from racing in a sunny environment to a wet environment and the car handles the same. Absolutely not. It just means you don't have to pit to put the wets on, therefore no break in the racing action. And from dry to wet you'll be able to feel the difference as always. That was the main reasoning behind the decision from the Game Design Team. And I understand guys, change is hard to embrace. But it's resulted in a better product. Our simmers who've worked on this title love it also. But if it's not for you it's not for you. All we can do is be open and transparent, show you guys the ins-and-outs of the game, and you guys as our community and consumers have the right to make your mind up yourselves if it's not the product for you."



http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...-This-summer&p=1595875&viewfull=1#post1595875

This is the bit people aren't looking at before criticising the decision. I said in the other thread that I get why people might be disappointed with the removal of pitstops, but it isn't at the expensive of driving physics simulation.
 
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I read most of the posts but didn’t read a single one commenting on the gameplay video - can it get more arcadey than that? The almost-fisheye lens to give a fake sense of speed, the AI, the collisions...

I was an early access fan of pcars1.. the early stages of building the game were so exciting but as they went on and on I guess the tire physics didn’t turn out to be what they expected so I wasn’t happy enough to buy it. Pcars 2 I didn’t even try it. I was excited 3 was announced but...

I would love the AC equivalent of ACC with the unreal 5 engine, driveclub weather and day/night effects, beamng damage, GTS easiness to pit stops. Is it much to ask??
 
I agree with you all, I was mega hyped for this game thought yeah ok I’ll give it a go, sounds to me like project cars has lost its soul, there’s no mention in the blog of having pit stops optional or anything. I don’t know what’s going on? New tyre model yes ok cool but no pit stops, taking out the strategic element wtf why? Forza and gt sport both sim cades have pit stops. I was going to pre order but not not no way, have to wait for a sale or see what happens. I like project cars 1 and 2. Community assisted racing simulator (cries inside)
 
"P
It just means you don't have to pit to put the wets on, therefore no break in the racing action. And from dry to wet you'll be able to feel the difference as always. That was the main reasoning behind the decision from the Game Design Team. And I understand guys, change is hard to embrace. But it's resulted in a better product. Our simmers who've worked on this title love it also. But if it's not for you it's not for you. All we can do is be open and transparent, show you guys the ins-and-outs of the game, and you guys as our community and consumers have the right to make your mind up yourselves if it's not the product for you."




http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...-This-summer&p=1595875&viewfull=1#post1595875

I quote you for expressing my condolences to SMS Game Design Team.
Such a talented team, they had an amazing idea.
Hopefully the real racing will follow soon, with the magic tyres.
 
they removed one of the crucial parts in making a racing game realistic.....

ok then :|

SMS are an amazing team of talented and visionary people.

They are implementing a feature that actual racing will have in 20 years from now, with magic tyres changing adapting automatically from dry to wet.
This change was already in the plans for the tires' manufacturers, and with the Covid FIA decided to close the pit stops forever, to avoid crowds.

We just don't realize yet how they are anticipating the future.

Also Wipeout games did the same.
 
This is the bit people aren't looking at before criticising the decision. I said in the other thread that I get why people might be disappointed with the removal of pitstops, but it isn't at the expensive of driving physics simulation.

The tyre model was improved to have a third layer which is great but we have the core layer now locked to optimal all the time instead of letting the tyre cool down or heat up realistically:

Basically, while you have no actual wear in Project CARS 3, you’ve got multiple layers related to the heat model. Flash, Layer, Tread, and so on. Flash is the elements which touch and grip the track surface, Layer is an intermediate layer for diffusing heat energy, and Tread is the core bulk of tread rubber. All the heating dynamics in Flash and Layer still happen, we just lock temperature from Tread down through the rest of the model. I suppose a simpler way to put it is that the rubber layers influence tyre grip naturally at these time levels:

Flash Layer – What are you doing this instant?
Surface Layer – What were you doing in the last 5s?
Bulk Tread – What were you doing in the last 5m?

The biggest benefit comes from those three rubber layers of varying thickness and how they separate transient behaviour of the rubber from longer term heat effects.

It will probably be great for moment to moment driving and short races but I don't see the point of doing long races anymore.

Source: https://www.projectcarsgame.com/three/news/developer-blog-1/
 
they removed one of the crucial parts in making a racing game realistic.....

ok then :|

Have they? Last time I checked the racing, cars, circuits, weather, time of day, good AI and of course driving physics, as a minimum are above pitstops.
 
I don't know why so many people in these communities can't see in grey. Feeling like a lack of pitstops is a deal breaker doesn't mean someone wants the game to be iRacing, just as not caring if they are gone doesn't mean someone wants it to be Burnout.

Myself, I was actually interested in how another sim-cade title like Forza could do, and seeing as Forza is beyond stale at this point, figured it might inject some life into things and offer an interesting alternative. The plain truth of the matter though, is that tire wear, fuel burn, pit stops and strategy are key parts of circuit racing, and completely abandoning them is eliminating several dynamics from the title, making it a shallower experience overall.

As someone who has been hosting/helping host weekly community events since FM1, and FM8 being total question mark at this point, I was looking at a more sim-cade oriented PC3 as a potential title to move events to, thinking that it would offer all the excellent options from PC2 (as Ian stated) but with a friendlier handling model that wouldn't be as daunting for some of the regulars we have in our series. A sim-cade title offers a great way to have somewhat serious racing without the aggressive learning curves and mandatory expensive peripherals and all that stuff that the more serious sims offer.

Forza has been that platform for years, but their titles are very limited in terms of the racing they provide. Even with pitstops present, their pitstops are super simple with no choice of tire compounds or fuel loads and so on, tire wear is generally inconsequential as very few cars burn tires up faster than fuel, and cars that can't run around 40mins on a tank are somewhat rare.

The result of the lacking strategy options in Forza means that the game has turned into a pure pace affair, with predictable results since you can often figure out who is going to win the race 2 laps in because they are rocketing off to a lead and you know that they aren't going to destroy their tires and need to pit or anything like that. Aggression has to be high because the race won't "come back to you" so you see a lot of unnecessary divebombs and impatient moves being made.

Those who feel pitstops get in the way of good racing likely do not actually watch racing, or care enough about racing to pay $60 for a new title in a series of (previously) sim racing games when they can get all the racing of the kind they want in GTA 5. Many of the most exciting finishes and late-race charges are born out of cars on different strategies converging near the end of the race. As someone who doesn't even bother to watch much eSports stuff or have a PS4 to play GTS, the GT World Final stuff has been captivating largely due to the exciting pit strategies making for nail-biter finishes. On the real world side of things, V8 Supercars and BTCC have had some fascinating races just in the last few years thanks to some cars taking a pit for rain tires when it starts sprinkling while others stay out and try to brave it on slicks.

I get that the strategy stuff can be off-putting to less experienced drivers and can feel shoe-horned into shorter hopper-style races, and on the other side, sometimes even for experienced drivers it's nice to just have a race where you attack and not worry about that stuff... The issue with this decision for PC3 is that it flat out kills one whole side of it. It's severely limiting, killing a bunch of potential (and previously optional) depth. It's a sad statement when Forza offers a deeper racing experience than your title...

The trailer looked awful, but I was still trying to be optimistic, and imagining the ability to run proper timed races with multiple tire compounds and interesting weather options throughout their beautiful time of day cycles was actually tipping me towards being fairly excited. While I probably wasn't going to pre-order anyway, this has turned this game into a "maybe buy if I can find it for $10 or less" for me as I just can't justify forking out $60 for a shallow pace-is-everything racing game when I already own one of those that at least has pit stops (as lame and often inconsequential as they are).

The only hope I have now is that this pressure forces a change, but given the general indifference Codemasters has shown for their playerbase and the attitude shown from Ian Bell on certain issues with previous games... my hopes aren't high.

Project C.A.R.S... Community Alienating Racing Sham? Setback? ****show?
 
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Those who feel pitstops get in the way of good racing likely do not actually watch racing, or care enough about racing to pay $60 for a new title in a series of (previously) sim racing games when they can get all the racing of the kind they want in GTA 5.

I wanted to give your post a good read but got here and stopped. Absolute *******s.

BTCC, which you tried to use as an example FOR pitstops. Is the best example of a rscing series where no pitstops is perfect. VERY rarely is a pitstop made, and very rarely does it alter an outcome. Formula E, no pitstops, exciting racing, LMP1, pitstops, slightly dull. How many F1 races have been ruined because of tyre strategy robbing us of a good race?

There's 2 sides to every argument and 2 sides to everyone's desires. To say people who feel pitstops can ruin a good race, dont watch or care about its is just plain ignorant. To then compare that kind of racing to GTA5 is absolutely laughable.
 
I don't know why so many people in these communities can't see in grey.

+1

Sim racer racism basically lol

If it fits not in the group of sim elitists then it can not and will not be tolerated and hated...

Unbelievable :D
 
+1

Sim racer racism basically lol

If it fits not in the group of sim elitists then it can not and will not be tolerated and hated...

Unbelievable :D

It's amusing his comment actually. Because he says he doesn't know why people can't see in the grey. Then fails to see the grey throughout the remainder of his post, seemingly attacking anyone who feels the racing would be fine without pitstops and saying we should play GTA5 if we want that kind of racing.

Hilarious.
 
I wanted to give your post a good read but got here and stopped. Absolute *******s.

BTCC, which you tried to use as an example FOR pitstops. Is the best example of a rscing series where no pitstops is perfect. VERY rarely is a pitstop made, and very rarely does it alter an outcome. Formula E, no pitstops, exciting racing, LMP1, pitstops, slightly dull. How many F1 races have been ruined because of tyre strategy robbing us of a good race?

There's 2 sides to every argument and 2 sides to everyone's desires. To say people who feel pitstops can ruin a good race, dont watch or care about its is just plain ignorant. To then compare that kind of racing to GTA5 is absolutely laughable.

Lack of pit stops don't ruin a good racing game, but make a certain extent of other features completely useless and redundant.

Do you agree that anywhere in the actual racing are present magic-automatically-weather-switching tires?

The explanations (clarifications) given by Nathan Bell on their forum clearly sound of damage control.
We don't have to always defend something.
 
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This statement reminded me of DICE: if you don't like it, don't buy it! This is a slap in the face of all fans of the game! They could at least have simplified to the point of GT Sport or Forza Motorsport, but not so much, now i see this game as another GRID 2.0 or Shift 3...
 
Lack of pit stops don't ruin a good racing game, but make a certain extent of other features completely useless and redundant.

Do you agree that anywhere in the actual racing are present magic-automatically-weather-switching tires?

The explanations (clarifications) given by Nathan Bell on their forum clearly sound of damage control.
We don't have to always defend something.

Everyone looks for different things in whats important to them. For me, personally, pitstops are a very long way down the list. Theres a lot of other things thay need to be right before I give a hoot about pitstops. If auto switching tyres is a means to get there then so be it.
 
Everyone looks for different things in whats important to them. For me, personally, pitstops are a very long way down the list. Theres a lot of other things thay need to be right before I give a hoot about pitstops. If auto switching tyres is a means to get there then so be it.

This is understandable, and I could agree with that, but depends on the game.

For example if these statements were coming from Forza developers, I would not even bother to think about them, because they could have been more or less aligned with the nature of the game.
I could have said for GT series before GTS, because in GTS they have actually implemented a casual way (yet present) to handle tire wear.

But coming from SMS and PC3 team, they sound unsettling.

For example, to me is less disturbing thinking to have fixed weather, selecting the tire type at the start of the race, rather than knowing that my tires will magically change in the middle of the race.

Also, it depends how to get there. Meaning, which compromises are being implemented along the way.

Anyway, we will see.
 
As a big fan of Endurance Racing like LeMans, WEC, IMSA etc etc etc. This is huge let down. PCars 2 was the only game that could simulate this kind of racing. PCars 3 won't be able to because it takes away all strategy from it. If it is good game? Maybe. But it is just another GRID/Driveclub with slightly more realistic physics. I won't buy it day one with all DLC's etc. I will wait for discount or something. I just hope this entry won't burry the series and they will make full blown next gen PCars 4 with Pitstops, strategy etc in all its glory. Peace.
 
This is understandable, and I could agree with that, but depends on the game.

For example if these statements were coming from Forza developers, I would not even bother to think about them, because they could have been more or less aligned with the nature of the game.
I could have said for GT series before GTS, because in GTS they have actually implemented a casual way (yet present) to handle tire wear.

But coming from SMS and PC3 team, they sound unsettling.

For example, to me is less disturbing thinking to have fixed weather, selecting the tire type at the start of the race, rather than knowing that my tires will magically change in the middle of the race.

Also, it depends how to get there. Meaning, which compromises are being implemented along the way.

Anyway, we will see.

I think with the tyre wear, tyre changes and lack of pitstops, we're looking at the compromise. If the rest of the game is outstanding then it'll be forgotten pretty quickly, (mostly anyway).

Like you say, we will see.
 
Call me a sim elitist or whatever you want but the absence of tyre wear, fuel usage and pit stops to me takes away any interest in long races. The loss of pit stops also means that either there is no damage or you cant fix it or it gets fixed magically like your tyres.

But in the end the game's vision appears to be as accessible as possible with a focus on going as fast as possible.
And to be fair looking at the popularity of Forza and GT that might be a more appreciated way. It is just not for me and yes maybe I might pick it up in a sale like I do with F1 games and like I did with GT Sport.

In the meanwhile I will start saving for a gaming pc as I'm afraid that also on the next generation of consoles (I will still get that to play with friends) there won't be a racing game that satisfies my wishes
 
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Looks like they continued to have the same problems with the current gen of consoles regarding the pit stops (they were usually a mess and bugged when changing stuff quickly), and all the stuff related to tyres that still needed a lot of polish. So then they removed all of that in order to finally avoid all the issues that were in pc1 and 2, specially in 2, and now try to make us buy the argument of simplification = better racing experience, in a game that was supposed to be a simulator, as it is still called project cars 3.

I'll try the game because i love drifting (but not in racing tracks like we saw in the video, as the GP layout of a track is for racing), but when I can afford it a lot cheaper.

Simplification = Better = me no buy dat in a "sim" game Ian. If only had you developed pc3 for the next gen consoles...
 
Tbh i think the people that are interested in long races are a minority...

I'm afraid you're right and most people just want to jump in a car and race with it for 15 maybe 20 minutes.

One can only hope that one day there will be another group of people with the resources available that will try and make another sim.
Hack, maybe I will win the lottery one day myself.

As for now PC2 remains the game for me that gets closest to what I want so I will stick to that as there appears to be no game that gets anywhere near my wishlist. Would there be any chance that game will be playable on PS5?

@Edit, Nathan Bell with the quick reply that PC2 won't be playable on next gen
 
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