Project CARS General Discussion Thread

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The physics needs to keep up with Assetto Corsa & RFactor2, iRacing in my opinion is falling behind. It's iRacing's safety rating etc that keeps it going, along with the fact that after you've spent about $150 you feel like you have to keep using it.

Its Iracings organised pickup racing that keeps it going. If another game had a similar structure for pickup racing and championship points, it would also be a success. Probably take away alot of iracings membership with a good physics engine. Lets face it iracings physics are good, but far from being great.
 
Once the STM is finally finished and all polished up I expect the devs to start working on FFB again. When that happens I expect the physics to come through the wheel much better than they are now and a lot more people will enjoy the game. :D Until then, it makes no sense for the devs to work on FFB when the tire model changes every day and could completely mess with the FFB they've set up, so I'll stick with FFB tweakers from forum members.
 
Actually i think that the FFB is much better in build 438. Before i was using a tweaker, now even with default 100% FFB and 70% tyre force it's a lot better at least with some cars ! Now i only go once in the F1 menu to enable and set up the braking vibration and the rumble strip effects 👍
 
I use the T500, the FFB is horrible in pCARS. I just finished 1 hour practice at Barber in iRacing. For those of you that have this track, give it a whirl. There are not any sims that have the bumps, elevation changes and the real sense of G force in the FFB. It is incredible and this is felt with any decent wheel.

ATM, pCARS is flat, most of the tracks that iRacing has scanned are very different in pCARS, the elevation is wrong in pCARS, as in footage and assets to some existence. I have been doing a lot of hot lapping in pCARS and it needs a lot of work. I'm not sure iRacing's tire model is all that bad after racing pCARS.

I do realize much work will be done to pCARS before we see the release. The biggest complaint I have ATM in pCARS is the FFB for my T500, yes I delete the old profile every new build. Then if they can sort out the physics they will be getting a big step forward.

I see a lot of comments in the forum here about folks comparing iRacing to pCARS and other sims, heck I do it all the time. The thing that gets me is I wonder how many of you really even have tried iRacing. I know a few of you here that on occasion I see you at iRacing. One member here was giving iRacing a proper thrashing a couple weeks ago, which is everyone's right to give their opinion. I asked him by PM what series he raced in, no reply, then a week later I asked him again, no reply. Then there are the members that do the 3 month trial and never go back. It is tough. the learning curve at iRacing is by far the most difficult of all sims.

I do realize it has faults that need to be addressed, in which they are working on. We all know that there is not one sim that is perfect. Myself like many of you, own just about every sim out there. I am really looking forward to the release of pCARS, it has issues that need to be addressed. One thing for sure pCARS is a lot of fun. I like racing with the savage AI, which will be nice when they are not in kill mode. I can't wait to see the finished product.
 
left888, did you adress your concerns at the WMD forums too, so that the devs can take something from it? Just complaining here wont help, I m afraid. Maybe look in the TS500 thread for help/wheel settings.

I tried iRacing last year with the 6 month Cadillac trial and I wasnt impressed with the FFB tbh. Actually much of the same critique you have for pCARS FFB describes my limited experience with iRacing rather well. I liked the general resistance and weight feel of the car, but other than that it seemed to be rather bland. Mind you, I was only using a DFGT at the time, but if it were so much better than pCARS FFB in general, shouldnt there be more and better feeling on every wheel?

My guess: It depends a lot on finding good settings for your wheel. In every game.
 
I'm not sure iRacing's tire model is all that bad after racing pCARS.

Considering that they updated PCARS tyre model again just this week and have many more planned updates will tell you they are not finished. :rolleyes:
 
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left888, did you adress your concerns at the WMD forums too, so that the devs can take something from it? Just complaining here wont help, I m afraid. Maybe look in the TS500 thread for help/wheel settings.

I tried iRacing last year with the 6 month Cadillac trial and I wasnt impressed with the FFB tbh. Actually much of the same critique you have for pCARS FFB describes my limited experience with iRacing rather well. I liked the general resistance and weight feel of the car, but other than that it seemed to be rather bland. Mind you, I was only using a DFGT at the time, but if it were so much better than pCARS FFB in general, shouldnt there be more and better feeling on every wheel?

My guess: It depends a lot on finding good settings for your wheel. In every game.

Actually I just did some testing on this using FEdit and a small amplitude sine wave with a small offset. Did it for Remco (over at WMD) actually.
What I found was that there are really multiple reasons why the small FFB effects don't come through.

1. Motor power related. You need a lot of power to make the quick left/right motion for vibrations to come through. However, the minimal operational voltage is important here as well. The lower the voltage of a motor (or its driver) can be before it is actuated, the smaller vibrations it can generate.
2. How free the driveshaft or axle of the motor can move is also important. Lateral forces of tensioned belts add extra drag to the motor as the axle is pushed against the wall of the bearing. The Fanatec wheels use motors which have sleeve bearings and they are by design not suited for applications where a lateral force is applied. Where as a ball bearing runs much smoother when a lateral force is applied. Hence they are used in applications as skateboards as well, where the weight of yourself is the lateral force.
3. A longer length and skewed shape of a motor armature (the magnets) results into less cogging from the motor. MrBasher noted this to me after he was lucky enough to try an ECCI. He said the motor was as big in diameter as the T500 but seemingly longer. He noticed the ECCI was a lot smoother, and thus he concluded that the length and possibly shape of the armature must be a reason to not feel any cogging at all.
4. Two motors on one belt and non or one tensioner (CSR E and CSW), results in slack and power/torque reduction due to slippage of one motor. This because the belt acts like an elastic band. When you put one side under tension between pulley and the first motor (and thus stretch it like an elastic band), the belt will become a little bit loose around the second motor and thus it will start to slip. Hence the loss of power necessary to make those small road effects come through.
5. Gear driven wheels (DFGT, G25/27) have some slack in between the gears. This either results in no small effects (like road effects) coming through or it feels like rattling.
6. V-Belt driven wheels (CSR E and CSW) have a natural tendency to slip a little (even in cars they do that). This natural tendency causes the effects to come through in a dampened form. Of course this also means that the little effects like road feel will become dampened and/or are (greatly) reduced. To the point some of it might disappear.
7. Toothed drivebelts (Porsche wheels and T500) have the best transfer feel of all, especially when used with a tensioner like on the T500 (which I know has one, dunno about the Porsche wheels). The reason is that they do not slip (as quickly) as V-belts, especially when used with a tensioner to reduce the elastic band effect. The teeth will just stay in place and due to the tension even the minimal movements of the motor come through, and thus can be felt. The downside to this is of course that the cogging of the motor and toothed belt could (doesn't have to be) cloud the other effects in the wheel. So picking a good motor is key with this system as well as a quality tension system.
8. The direct drive stepper motor, otherwise known as bodnar wheel, is one of the best ways to feel everything the car does as there is nothing lost in the transfer to the wheel. After all the wheel is directly attached to the axle of the motor itself. The downs of this system are first the costs, no normal consumer can afford one. Secondly is the fact that you still do not have the full torque as you have in a real car. Also the motor due to its power can be quite harsh, especially un sudden turn arounds from left to right. One way to dampen this and add even more torque where appropriate would be to add hydraulics. Though that would further drive the costs up.

Anyways, this is just my take on this all. But I conclude that due to the design of all the wheels, no single wheel can be the same unless the internal design is pretty much identical.
 
I love the z4 gt3 on eifewald. Sogood.gif! i nearly creamed my pants on the carosel, the physics are that good., check my sig for an awesome vid!
 
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As an absolute outsider here until tonight, and having just read at least 30 pages of thread, I just wanted to thank everyone who contributes. I have a G25, a T500, a ps3, and will own the ps4 and pCars at the first opportunity.

Something else I want to own at the first opportunity is some sleep, because listening to 2 months of you lot condensed into 2 hours of pCars thread is exhausting. Maybe even dual exhausting.
 
New livery I did, a carry over from rFactor:

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Major thanks to chromatic9 for the glorious shots 👍
 
Good sir.. pCARS tire model isn't even complete (development time maybe one year, compared to iRacing's 4 I believe).

I do realize much work will be done to pCARS before we see the release.

Yes, as I stated, I realize more work is and will be done with pCARS in it's developement. iRacing is working on version 5 ATM


left888, did you adress your concerns at the WMD forums too, so that the devs can take something from it? Just complaining here wont help, I m afraid. Maybe look in the TS500 thread for help/wheel settings.

I tried iRacing last year with the 6 month Cadillac trial and I wasnt impressed with the FFB tbh. Actually much of the same critique you have for pCARS FFB describes my limited experience with iRacing rather well. I liked the general resistance and weight feel of the car, but other than that it seemed to be rather bland. Mind you, I was only using a DFGT at the time, but if it were so much better than pCARS FFB in general, shouldnt there be more and better feeling on every wheel?

My guess: It depends a lot on finding good settings for your wheel. In every game.

Firstly, I'm not really complaining. Just more of my observations. I have indeed posted in the T500 threads at WMD and like most discussions, they say it is being worked on. Deleting my profile for every new build is not helping at all. I do so for when they will do improvements which will come along eventually. The FFB in iRacing is miles ahead of pCARS, you telling me that it is what I describe in pCARS, tells me you did very little iRacing, again most of the FFB complaints in iRacing do come from users with little to no experience.

I was on board at pCARS almost from the beginning and have tested it as much as I could. BTW the Cadillac is a very hard car for new drivers to learn on. My suggestion would be to try the MX-5 and take a full year to learn how to drive it, because that's how long it takes an average driver to learn it. pCARS/alpha has cars that I was flying around the track in my first attempt which would be impossible in iRacing, keeping in mind that everyone has different race craft skill sets.

In this thread alone I know of at least 5 members that have tried iRacing and quit after their trial ran out, as I said before, iRacing has a very steep learning curve. As well it is easy to see that iRacing and pCARS are two very different games. I think pCARS will be a lot of fun to play, much better then the likes of Forza and GT5. The one thing that I hope they develop is a system like iRacing has for punishing bad drivers and rewarding good drivers. I brought this up at pCARS forum and one of the developers told me that they plan on using a system where you will be grouped with drivers that you rate with. Hmm, we shall see how this works out.

Considering that they updated PCARS tyre model again just this week and have many more planned updates will tell you they are not finished. :rolleyes:
I do realize much work will be done to pCARS before we see the release.

Yes I am aware that they are working on it, my reply was for the people that are saying pCARS tire model is better then iRacing. Perhaps it will be one day, they first must sort out the physics and again, I think pCARS will be a lot of fun when it is released. Many of you are forgetting that I race and own pretty much every game out there, my statements are just my opinion. :)
 
left888, you're right when you say that many of those who tried iRacing only did it during 3 months. I think that 3 months should be more than enough to have a good idea of how the game handles and if i like it or not. I was looking to drive the Mazda and the Legend, and in the 2 cars there's the same the behaviour that has plagued the racing sims for more than 10 years : the infamous sliding syndroms that 90% of the time ends in the car spinning with nothing to do about it but wait until it's done. That is not realistic, and has to finish once and for all ! It's already the case with pCars, and will also be with AC.

iRacing's FFB is indeed giving great information from the tarmac, it's a lot like Netkar Pro. I loved it, very subtle and yet with strong effects sometimes :scared: pCars FFB sure has a long way to go, atm it's very important to set ingame FFB at 100% and tyre force at +/- 70% to avoid clipping. The second thing to know is that during the tyres development time, some effects have been disabled so that they do not interfere with the feedback about the tyre models.

About the tracks, i suppose you're speaking of the US ones, well i don't know because i mainly drive at the Nordschleife :D : most convincing version ever recreated IMO. Same as FFB, the tracks surface details haven't been given a lot of attention yet, it will come eventually during the beta phase.
 
I wonder and this no insult what so ever or directed to certain member, it's only a general observation I have seen here and on other fora as well, how some people become such a fan of a game that they feel insulted when this game is criticised as if they are the developers of this particular game.

A game is a game and every game has it's positive and negative "thing".
 
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i wonder and this no insult what so ever or directed to certain member, it's only a general observation i have seen here and on other fora as well, how some people become such a fan of a game that they feel insulted when this game is criticised as if they are the developers if this particular game.

A game is a game and every game has it's positive and negative "thing".

+1
 
Well i don't know if it's aimed at me, but i didn't feel insulted at all and i think that it's just a normal discussion with people respecting each other until now. We've all seen a lot worse don't we :D ?

The only thing that annoys me is that pCars is too often being considered like a final product, and thus directly compared to other finished games : people should always have in mind that it's only in pre alpha state !
 
Will we see P:CARS coming out this year? From what I understand that was supposed to be the case for consoles? :confused:
 
Well i don't know if it's aimed at me, but i didn't feel insulted at all and i think that it's just a normal discussion with people respecting each other until now. We've all seen a lot worse don't we :D ?

The only thing that annoys me is that pCars is too often being considered like a final product, and thus directly compared to other finished games : people should always have in mind that it's only in pre alpha state !
Nope, absolutely not. It is not aimed at you nor at any other member of GTP.

There are many discussions on other fora as well where people get insulted when someone is criticising iRacing or pCARS. Discussion about pCARS and comparing it with other games is good but sometimes you can read between the lines that certain people are agitated and the discussion can result in a flame war, which is stupid.

I use to like AC more than pCARS but since I read many good things about pCARS, I'm getting interested in pCARS as well.

I hope I'll be able to get both games.
 
I wonder and this no insult what so ever or directed to certain member, it's only a general observation I have seen here and on other fora as well, how some people become such a fan of a game that they feel insulted when this game is criticised as if they are the developers of this particular game.

A game is a game and every game has it's positive and negative "thing".

I agree, though saying this or that isn't as good but being fully aware the game is not even beta yet and making that a point is well pointless, lol.

Still it is always wonderful to read again how superb i-racing is or be reminded that more of us should try it. :sly:

I'm excited for pCars can't say that I am excited about i-racing as I feel it could be surpassed in several ways. Err no not in every way as that would be ignorant though this isn't the place to discuss it. This game is a true eye-fest which for me is an attraction as much as physics are perhaps to others.

Then again I am not expecting or particularly after "ultimate physics" a good degree of realism and feel yes but also I'm old fashioned in wanting a game to be well fun and entertaining. That includes stupendous visuals and audio, nice track selections, game modes and generally good playability.

Each to their own and everyone has their own preferences.

* I applaud again the visuals shown in this thread, awesome work gents and has to be one of the best reasons to come here every so often. 👍
 
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Any thoughts on releasing this game on the PS4 instead of PS3? Should be easier to dev on :D


Jerome
 
Can't see any sense in that when using the word "instead", but additionally it's possible I'd believe in some timeframe. :)
 
Any thoughts on releasing this game on the PS4 instead of PS3? Should be easier to dev on :D


Jerome
There's been no mention of PS4 for now, but like Timppaq says it'll be released on PS3 anyway that's for sure :)

A PS4 version would be great indeed, let's just hope that we'll be able to plug in different peripherals unlike the PS3 !
 
Any thoughts on releasing this game on the PS4 instead of PS3? Should be easier to dev on :D


Jerome

It is going to be on ps3.

They are not saying anything either way on the ps4 so it is still a possibility.
 
Can't see any sense in that when using the word "instead", but additionally it's possible I'd believe in some timeframe. :)

I used the word instead because it looks like the project got pushed back a bit. But I'd buy it on PS3 or PS4, probably both if it eventually came out on the PS4. Things look great guys, very impressive.


Jerome
 
Any thoughts on releasing this game on the PS4 instead of PS3? Should be easier to dev on :D

Jerome

Then they should drop Wii2 also. They NEED to release it on PS3 or they will go bankrupt. They should do both. And then follow up with mobile versions (iOS & Android).
 
if itis going to be delayed to 2014 it would be stupid to miss a ps4 release, the graphics could be outstanding as for pc on ps4( also first mover advntage) I mean personally i would buy it on ps4 ( no powerfull pc here).
 
Releasing it on the PS4, doesn't that mean that they have to rewrite (code) the whole game?
 
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